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American Morning
Where Could Saddam Hussein be Hiding His Weapons?
Aired January 30, 2003 - 09:11 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: So where could Saddam Hussein be hiding his weapons and way haven't inspectors been able to find them?
Joining us from Melbourne, Australia is former chief U.N. weapon inspectors Roger Hill.
How troubled are you by these accusations that the Iraqi have successfully infiltrated U.N. inspection teams?
ROGER HILL, FMR. CHIEF U.N. INSPECTOR: Good morning, Paula.
I think it's probably highly likely. This is currently the number one threat to Iraq at the moment. And certainly, for the long inspection period that I was involved in, we were very aware of how active the Iraqi intelligence services were in attempting to recruit weapons inspectors, their relationships with other countries that were involved who may have had support or be aligned with Iraq in terms providing information to them. So, I think there's a lot of truth in that.
ZAHN: Well, he went also went on to say this morning it was his belief during his time in the country in 1994, that in fact he accused Russia and France of allowing relationships to develop between planted officers in -- Iraqi officers in the directorate and inspectors for those two countries. Did you see any evidence of that?
HILL: I certainly did see evidence of those two particular countries. We have to remember that they have vested interests. Both Russia and France has long-term oil deals with Iraq. They want to see those oil deals go ahead.
So, I think there, yes, there was certainly plaintive evidence on our teams that we took in that certain members, not all, but certain members were involved in providing information to the Iraqis.
ZAHN: And what would be the...
HILL: But it would also be unfair to pick on them.
ZAHN: Well sure, but what would be incentive for individual inspector to forge a relationship with a planted Iraqi officer in the directorate? What do they get out of it?
HILL: Look, I think some of that was, obviously, I think really to do with the state. I mean, they're acting on orders of their own government to provide that information back to the Iraqis. In some instances, it would probably be for pure monetary gain and thirdly, in a lot of these cases, it's about intrigue, it's about playing the game.
But I personally believe that most was to do with the state, i.e. those countries allowing certain of their inspectors to pass that information back.
ZAHN: Wow. Now Hans Blix yesterday when asked about this at the U.N. denied that was the case, said he certainly hasn't been made wear of specific instances, and yet President Bush in the State of the Union Address says he knows through intelligence that the Iraqis are monitoring conversations, and he knows for a fact, he said, that Iraqis were putting their intelligence officers, or using them as fronts for Iraqi scientists. How commonplace was that when you were an inspector?
HILL: Totally. I mean, that's absolutely a given. There is no question that Iraq monitors all of the conversations that the inspectors have between each other, they monitor the communications systems, they follow them constantly and consistently throughout the countries, so there's absolutely no question about that.
In terms of duping, in terms of putting in false scientists to actually -- in front of the inspection teams, that has certainly been a past practice as well. I think he's right in that regard.
But I think we should point out this is not an old UNSCOM; this is a new UNSCOM, and there's a lot of new inspectors there, so a lot of those folks shouldn't be tainted if you like, with the old brush. In other words they're new people that would take the Iraqis some time to develop contacts and make a contact in between those new inspectors, if you like, on the ground.
So, I think it's pretty hard thing to paint the whole inspection regime as having some sort of context. They probably will be a very small number of select individuals that could be involved in that process.
ZAHN: And, Roger, as I understand it, the process is entirely different this time around, because it's not like the individual governments are recommending people. I guess they changed that this time around. So you remain hopeful that this current inspection team can find stuff that major governments say is definitely hidden?
HILL: Unfortunately, I don't, Paula. I wish them the best will in the world, but frankly, this organization that is there representing the United Nations...
ZAHN: And we had just lost Roger Hill, who had a lot of very interesting insights as to what the current inspectors are up against today, cautioning us to remember that circumstances are very different from what they were in 1990s, and he, as you heard him say, doesn't think that this team has the same taint of the taint he described with previous teams. We're going to leave it there. And once again, we thank Roger Hill from Melbourne, Australia.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 30, 2003 - 09:11 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: So where could Saddam Hussein be hiding his weapons and way haven't inspectors been able to find them?
Joining us from Melbourne, Australia is former chief U.N. weapon inspectors Roger Hill.
How troubled are you by these accusations that the Iraqi have successfully infiltrated U.N. inspection teams?
ROGER HILL, FMR. CHIEF U.N. INSPECTOR: Good morning, Paula.
I think it's probably highly likely. This is currently the number one threat to Iraq at the moment. And certainly, for the long inspection period that I was involved in, we were very aware of how active the Iraqi intelligence services were in attempting to recruit weapons inspectors, their relationships with other countries that were involved who may have had support or be aligned with Iraq in terms providing information to them. So, I think there's a lot of truth in that.
ZAHN: Well, he went also went on to say this morning it was his belief during his time in the country in 1994, that in fact he accused Russia and France of allowing relationships to develop between planted officers in -- Iraqi officers in the directorate and inspectors for those two countries. Did you see any evidence of that?
HILL: I certainly did see evidence of those two particular countries. We have to remember that they have vested interests. Both Russia and France has long-term oil deals with Iraq. They want to see those oil deals go ahead.
So, I think there, yes, there was certainly plaintive evidence on our teams that we took in that certain members, not all, but certain members were involved in providing information to the Iraqis.
ZAHN: And what would be the...
HILL: But it would also be unfair to pick on them.
ZAHN: Well sure, but what would be incentive for individual inspector to forge a relationship with a planted Iraqi officer in the directorate? What do they get out of it?
HILL: Look, I think some of that was, obviously, I think really to do with the state. I mean, they're acting on orders of their own government to provide that information back to the Iraqis. In some instances, it would probably be for pure monetary gain and thirdly, in a lot of these cases, it's about intrigue, it's about playing the game.
But I personally believe that most was to do with the state, i.e. those countries allowing certain of their inspectors to pass that information back.
ZAHN: Wow. Now Hans Blix yesterday when asked about this at the U.N. denied that was the case, said he certainly hasn't been made wear of specific instances, and yet President Bush in the State of the Union Address says he knows through intelligence that the Iraqis are monitoring conversations, and he knows for a fact, he said, that Iraqis were putting their intelligence officers, or using them as fronts for Iraqi scientists. How commonplace was that when you were an inspector?
HILL: Totally. I mean, that's absolutely a given. There is no question that Iraq monitors all of the conversations that the inspectors have between each other, they monitor the communications systems, they follow them constantly and consistently throughout the countries, so there's absolutely no question about that.
In terms of duping, in terms of putting in false scientists to actually -- in front of the inspection teams, that has certainly been a past practice as well. I think he's right in that regard.
But I think we should point out this is not an old UNSCOM; this is a new UNSCOM, and there's a lot of new inspectors there, so a lot of those folks shouldn't be tainted if you like, with the old brush. In other words they're new people that would take the Iraqis some time to develop contacts and make a contact in between those new inspectors, if you like, on the ground.
So, I think it's pretty hard thing to paint the whole inspection regime as having some sort of context. They probably will be a very small number of select individuals that could be involved in that process.
ZAHN: And, Roger, as I understand it, the process is entirely different this time around, because it's not like the individual governments are recommending people. I guess they changed that this time around. So you remain hopeful that this current inspection team can find stuff that major governments say is definitely hidden?
HILL: Unfortunately, I don't, Paula. I wish them the best will in the world, but frankly, this organization that is there representing the United Nations...
ZAHN: And we had just lost Roger Hill, who had a lot of very interesting insights as to what the current inspectors are up against today, cautioning us to remember that circumstances are very different from what they were in 1990s, and he, as you heard him say, doesn't think that this team has the same taint of the taint he described with previous teams. We're going to leave it there. And once again, we thank Roger Hill from Melbourne, Australia.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
