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American Morning
Special Edition, Part IV
Aired February 02, 2003 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning and welcome back to a special edition of AMERICAN MORNING. It is just under 24 hours since the space shuttle Columbia broke into flaming pieces during its landing approach.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Right now a massive effort spanning out across eastern Texas, western Louisiana. A grim search for the remains of Columbia and the crewmembers as well. Getting some reports that some human remains have been found in different locations. NASA, meanwhile, searching for answers for the cause of the tragedy of yesterday.
ZAHN: And we are trying to cover almost every aspect of the Columbia tragedy across America and around the world. Let's start off with Daryn Kagan, who's standing by at the Kennedy Space Center. Good morning again, Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Paula. I got to tell you, it's not easy to get on to the grounds of the Kennedy Space Center. You have to go through a number of checkpoints and get credentials. So we've been a little bit sequestered this morning; just now getting our hands on some of the papers. So I wanted to share that with our viewers and the headlines.
This from the "Orlando Sentinel," "Fatal Return," with a picture of the video that you saw so much on CNN yesterday. And then this one here, this is "Florida Today." This is a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) paper. This is looking forward, instead of looking backwards. And it announces the probe will target the wing. They are reporting that the probe, the investigation, will look into the piece of debris that possibly hit the left wing of the shuttle as it took off on January 16.
Also, looking outside the papers and looking outside Kennedy Space Center up and down this East Coast of Florida, I want to give you a sense of how this has really hit the community. And it's really easy to do that just by looking at a number of signs that have sprung up in an impromptu fashion. We have some video of some of those signs that have been springing up on car washes, fast food restaurants, memorials, as people -- our hearts are with the family and crew of Columbia.
"God bless Columbia's Crew," at a local car wash. "Seven Heroes." All you have to do is drive up and down the highways here and you'll see people expressing their feeling, whether it's in the newspapers or up on signs. We're going to keep our eye out for other signs of how people are dealing with the tragedy here in central Florida and up and down the coast, and we'll bring those to you a little bit later. Paula, back to you.
ZAHN: Thanks, Daryn. Look forward to that -- Bill.
HEMMER: One of the seven astronauts that we talked about with such an unbelievable life, 41-year-old mission specialist Laurel Clark. A wife and a mother. During yesterday's wakeup call from mission control, she was eager to be reunited with her family. That meeting that was planned just several minutes away. Sadly her family facing tragedy yet again.
Her aunt and uncle lost their son on 9/11. They shared their heartache with Judy Slate of our affiliate KCCI.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETTY HAVILAND, SON DIED ON 9/11: We had the feeling of deja vu when this happened and it's still there.
JUDY SLATE, KCCI CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Betty and Doug Haviland have been here before, anxiously watching the news, hoping for any new information about a loved one.
DOUG HAVILAND, SON DIED ON 9/11: Soon as you saw that debris beginning to break off from the shuttle it became pretty clear that, you know, they were in real trouble.
SLATE: Their niece, 41-year-old Laurel Clark, who was born in Ames (ph), was one of the astronauts on board the space shuttle Columbia when it disappeared.
D. HAVILAND: And she was very determined to get up into space. That was what she wanted to do.
SLATE: On September 11, 2001, the Havilands shared another national tragedy. Their son Tim was in the World Trade Center towers when terrorists struck. One family, two horrific events.
B. HAVILAND: And we've lost a family member in both of them. But the tragedy is not for us now, it's for Laurel's family. Our grieving.
SLATE: The Havilands received an e-mail from Laurel in space.
D. HAVILAND: It says, "Hello from above our magnificent planet earth. The perspective is truly awe inspiring. This is a terrific mission."
SLATE: It's a message Doug and Betty will forever cherish.
B. HAVILAND: We feel blessed that she did write and told about the wonderful experiences of being up there and looking down on planet earth.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ZAHN: Oh how sad. Tat heart break unfortunately felt throughout the country. Still to come, another national tragedy the U.S. must face coming so close after September 11. When we come back, learning to cope. We'll be joined by Rabbi Marc Gellman and Father Tom Hartman, otherwise known as The God Squad.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: We have talked a lot over the last 23 hours or so about the amount of debris that Americans unfortunately had to confront, especially in Texas. And let's check in with Maria Hinojosa, who joins us from the volunteer fire department in Hemphill, Texas, where unfortunately they're dealing with some of that this morning. Good morning, Maria.
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula. Hemphill is about 150 miles northeast of Houston. And it's between here and Nacogdoches and San Augustine that much of the debris has been found. And today the people who are gathering today, between 25 to 100 people from the fire department, from the sheriff's department, will start moving into a new phase of the search here.
And we are at the command center, which is basically where all of the areas will be coordinated. They will be moving out into an area that spans from -- difficult to talk about, Paula, but there's an area where they found one body part that was off of Route 83. And they will then span northwest, literally combing the area to the part where they found another body part on Route 96 South. And they will be fanning out between 10 to 15 feet between the men, and moving out into the Sabine National Forest.
Yesterday they were depending mostly on the phone calls, over 500 of them, that people were calling in to say what they found. At this point now, because this is a heavily wooded area, they have made the decision to now start taking the men and moving them out into the area. They will start within the next hour is what they're planning. And they will be looking for whatever they can find.
We have heard that in this area they found a patch from one of the -- the Columbia shuttle patches that was worn. Also a piece of clothing the size of about a skirt that was orange. Believed to be one of the jumpers. And, yes, unfortunately several body parts. And they are using the area between these two body parts to triangle moving northwest.
It's not that in this particular area that an extraordinary amount of debris has been found, but they are using this as the points where they will then move into the Sabine National Forest. A very sad day here in Hemphill. There are many people gathering here and at the command center. Many officials -- I just was in there; saw several from the FBI. We'll be hearing a press conference here within the hour. So we will bring that to you live as that happens, Paula.
ZAHN: Obviously, Maria, the folks that work there full-time at the fire department are trained to deal with catastrophes. And I'm just curious how they're walking the volunteers through the process of what they might come upon.
HINOJOSA: Well the volunteers will also be members of the fire department and the sheriff's department. And right now, they're having a meeting to start coordinating that. But they have participated in searches.
What they're going to be doing is, again, taking the visual eye. It's hard to describe, but this is a -- apart from these small towns, you have a large wooded areas. The farmers are able to spot the things that they see on their land, but once you get into the wooded areas there's concern that there might be large parts of the debris that has yet to be found.
This is a no-fly zone yet. So there are still no helicopters that can come up over from the sky, which is why they're going to go through this man by man and woman by woman, fanning out into the Sabine National Forest -- Paula.
ZAHN: And we wish them luck, as the shock is still so fresh. Maria Hinojosa reporting from Hemphill, Texas for us this morning -- Bill.
HEMMER: Paula, the shuttle disaster comes as this nation is still reeling from the attacks of 9/11 17 months ago. How then does the country cope with yet another tragedy that we have all watched now on television?
With us here today in New York, Rabbi Marc Gellman and Father Tom Hartman, otherwise known as The God Squad. Great to see you both again here. I should point out at the outset here you have counseled numerous families of the victims, not only from 9/11 here in New York City, but the crash of TWA 800 back in July of 1996. Father, quickly, your thoughts on what we're all going through today and seeing and witnessing and hearing about.
FATHER TOM HARTMAN, THE GOD SQUAD: Well, it's immense suffering. It's immense pain. When extraordinary heroes in our society are hurt or killed, it impacts on the whole country. And the first thing is, as we listened to what's happened, we realize that seven heroes have died. And what does that do to our psyche in the midst of the possibility of war and the economy and so many other things?
I think it continues to add to the anxiety, to the uncertainty. But we're a strong people. And usually after we hear of the death of somebody, we know while the body has died the spirit goes on. And that's what people rally around.
They go to prayer services. They talk to god about this. And they recognize that god takes this person and puts them in his hand and gives them a future that we all believe in. A life to come. Heaven, a world to come in (ph) Judaism.
HEMMER: It is my sense, anyway, that the country is in a different place now 17 months after 9/11. And how we react to this could be much different than it could have been perhaps in 1986 with the Challenger. Not to diminish in any way the lives of these seven men and women, but for our own understanding, interpretation, are we in a different place, Rabbi? Do you agree with that or not?
RABBI MARC GELLMAN, THE GOD SQUAD: Well yes and no. I think for the peoples whose lives have been broken by this tragedy, like a stone entering a pond, the ripples go everywhere. But they're more intense where the stone enters the water for the families, for the friends. This is the same as every tragedy.
It's an incomprehensible loss. And Tom and I are praying for all the families and all the relatives. For the country, I think you're right. It is different.
We are really at a point where we have to look at not only the expense of manned space exploration, but its effectiveness. The most wonderful thing that we've ever put in space was the telescope and there isn't a human being on it. And I think we have to look again at whether this is worth the risk of human life.
HEMMER: Wow. Wow. Going forward, as of yesterday, it appears that that is a foregone conclusion, that the space program continues despite the loss. I find it very interesting. Some of the reports we're getting out of Florida from yesterday, all the family members who had gathered for the return essentially were taken into one room, counseled and talked to. And we have heard now stories of amazing strength from these family members in the face of yesterday.
GELLMAN: Well see they get it together. They derive strength from each other's sorrow. And that's really a message everyone needs to learn, even in their tragedies, which don't get public exposure like this.
HARTMAN: Well not only were these extraordinary people who went through extraordinary means to get to where they were, but their families had to be also. Their families were part of their preparation and they knew that they might have to give up their loved ones.
HEMMER: We heard from the president yesterday. Just to take part of what he had to say, "The same creator who names the stars also knows the names of the seven souls we mourn today."
GELLMAN: I love the president and I love his willingness, because it's part of his nature to reach into his religious past and to his -- to the metaphors that come out of religious comfort. It's amazing. It's the old saying, "There's no atheist in a fox hole." And I think we're in a fox hole now, and it's wonderful to have a man of such natural faith leading us.
HEMMER: And we were talking before the end of the commercial break, the first Israeli astronaut was taken into space. And you have a rather poignant story of part of what he had carried into space with him. Share that.
GELLMAN: Yes. It's an amazing, almost chillingly ironic story. Ilan Ramon was given a drawing by Yad Veshem, the Israel Holocaust Museum. It was a drawing done during the time of the holocaust by a 14-year-old boy who was murder murdered in Auschwitz. The drawing was a drawing of what this little boy, who lived in Poland his whole life, thought the earth might look like from the perspective of outer space.
HEMMER: Wow.
GELLMAN: And he took this drawing into space with him, and the boy who was incinerated in Auschwitz gave this picture to an Israeli astronaut, who was incinerated in space, a survivor of a child of survivors himself. And the chilling irony of that, that this picture links two deaths, is on my soul and weighs on me heavily now.
HEMMER: Thanks for sharing. The God Squad, Rabbi Marc Gellman, Father Tom Hartman, thanks to both of you.
HARTMAN: Thanks.
GELLMAN: God bless you.
HEMMER: Here's Paula now.
ZAHN: The imagery of that kind of stops you from breathing, doesn't it? Wow, how powerful.
Still more ahead. We will have a NEWS ALERT right after the break. More on the Columbia tragedy. We will be joined by a documentary filmmaker who had complete access to the training and mission preparation for Columbia as he worked on his film about the man you've just heard about, Israeli astronaut Ilan Ramon. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: We're back at just about 10 minutes before the hour. And it was at this time yesterday that my colleague, Miles O'Brien -- I was watching you, Miles -- encouraged us all to go outside where it was clear and perhaps see the reentry of the space shuttle Columbia. And just moments later I guess you realized something had gone horribly wrong.
Miles joins us from the Johnson Space Center with some insights as to what investigators may be honing in on at this hour. Good morning, Miles. I can't believe you're still standing. I think we had you working almost 23 hours straight yesterday.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Adrenaline is a wonderful thing, Paula. I was trying to tell people to go out and look at the sky and see something beautiful. Instead they saw something completely horrific. We'll bring you up to date with some details on the investigation in just a moment. But the person who we're just about to talk to, his time is very valuable right now. So I want to bring him in right away.
The NASA administrator, Sean O'Keefe, joins us live from Washington. Good morning, Mr. O'Keefe. Our condolences to you and the entire NASA family.
SEAN O'KEEFE, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: Thank you, Miles. I mean, mostly we extend our condolences and our commitment to the families of the crew of Columbia. And we're going to find out what caused this. We're going to make sure we correct it, we're going to make sure this never happens again.
So it's a commitment we are -- our pledge to them. They are courageous people, and we positively are going to work through all of this. Thank you, Miles.
O'BRIEN: You've been administrator now for a year. The moment that any NASA administrator dreads is telling families that they have lost loved ones in a space craft that is under your control. You signed the paper saying it's good to launch. Tell us what that was like? How were you able to get through that? And how are the families doing?
O'KEEFE: It was about the most difficult thing I have ever encountered. But it was also inspiring to see the courage of each of them. The wives, husbands, children, fathers, mothers, I mean these were folks who started the day off, as you described earlier, in a happy mood, looking forward to the landing of an extraordinarily successful mission that had been pursued over the course of the previous couple of weeks and had done a magnificent job.
And this ended in tragedy in a way that just in a second all of a sudden turned their entire lives upside down. And even in that, they displayed a bravery and courage that has just -- I think all Americans should admire and be most respectful of. They're just an amazing group of people, and they're folks that clearly understand the risks that were involved. But no one wants to ever encounter these cases.
So we have committed to them, and I have personally committed to them that absolutely we're going to investigate this, tell them the facts of what was involved. Tell the American people what was involved. And we're going to determine what it is that caused this, fix it, and move on with the objectives of space exploration that all those courageous crewmembers dedicated their lives to.
O'BRIEN: I know that in the immediate wake of Challenger June Scobee-Rodgers and the families of that crew told the NASA administrator and Vice President Bush at that time that they felt strongly that their loved ones would not want NASA to end its manned space flight mission. Did you get that message from these families?
O'KEEFE: Absolutely. No question about it. And, as a matter of fact, just a week ago, had the opportunity with the families of the Challenger crew to spend time with them, to remember the courage of that remarkable group of crewmembers aboard Challenger in January of 1986. And we never would have imagined that just a little over a week later that we would have encountered a tragedy such as this. But that was precisely the same reaction of the families of the Columbia crew.
Just an amazing courageous group of people. And again, we owe it to them, every single second of the day, to be sure we dedicate ourselves to finding out what went wrong. Making sure the facts of the case are laid out and telling everybody exactly what it was and correcting the problems.
O'BRIEN: Do you have plans finalized for memorial services either here in Houston or Washington or maybe elsewhere?
O'KEEFE: We're working on both. And that should be wrapped up here fairly shortly in terms of an announcement of exactly when and where those events will be occurring. But stand by. We're working on that diligently right now, as well as the investigation that's underway.
O'BRIEN: Can you give us a date here in Houston yet?
O'KEEFE: Not yet. We're still working on some of the details. But we'll let you know soon as we possibly get that ironed out.
O'BRIEN: It's obviously very early to think about talking about what the causes might be, but let me ask you just a general question. If in fact the cause, it is determined that it is some sort of failed process, something that is sort of one off and not a fundamental redesign type of issue, how soon could NASA be flying again?
O'KEEFE: That's hard to tell, Miles. I don't want to preempt any possible outcome that could come from our internal investigation or from that of the independent objective investigative board that we've impaneled. We've asked Admiral (UNINTELLIGIBLE), who was the retired four-star admiral, commander in chief of the Atlantic fleet, who also was, after his retirement, was the presiding officer on the USS Cole incident you may three years ago.
He is well versed, tragically, in the understanding of accident investigation. And we've asked him to come to an objective view of exactly what caused this accident. So we're going to provide all the information in our internal investigation and let the facts speak to what happened. And we're going to correct it and move on and be sure that we fly safely, as is our commitment each and every time we launch and each and every time there's a landing.
And something happened here. And we're going to find out what it was and make sure we correct it.
O'BRIEN: NASA administrator Sean O'Keefe, busy days lie ahead. Long days ahead. Thank you very much for taking some time with us this morning.
O'KEEFE: Thank you, Miles. And thank you for your very thorough coverage of what we're doing. We appreciate it very much.
O'BRIEN: All right -- Paula.
ZAHN: I have to say, your reporting brought me a great deal of comfort, Miles. Having interviewed all of the astronauts on this mission, having done some of the training yourself, potentially, to go into space, you clearly made some of the details available to us very, very early on.
HEMMER: Well done.
ZAHN: We wanted to share with all of you right now a map to give you an idea of what NASA is up against, what the FAA is up against, as they try to comb through some of the debris that has fallen. Of course, the space shuttle Columbia exploding about 40 miles above the earth. The debris extending in, we're told, a couple hundred square mile area, running from Texas and Arkansas into Louisiana.
But what you're looking at here is the FAA restricted flight zone that runs from Cedar Creek, Texas, just south of Dallas, to Ft. Polk, Louisiana. That zone in and of itself is about 160 miles long, 40 miles wide. That will make it easier for the investigators on the ground to collect debris and to keep unnecessary aircraft out of the area. And I guess what's so heartbreaking is to hear Maria Hinojosa's report talking about folks in Hemphill, Texas, that have not only stumbled upon debris, but body parts as well.
HEMMER: Getting indications right now Hemphill Texas, an area right now where we are getting more information 8:00 local time there. Let's listen to see what we can learn more about the debris that is landing there.
Before this gets under way, Paula, just to put a button on the FAA order, no aircraft can fly below 3,000 feet in this area that you described, 160 miles long, 40 miles long. Here's Hemphill now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Newton and Sabine Counties.
TOM MADDOX: I'm Tom Maddox (ph). I'm the sheriff of Sabine County.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This morning, as we still grieve the loss of our heroes, our space heroes, and extend our prayers to the family of these astronauts, these very courageous people, our efforts here in Sabine, Newton and Jasper County, and throughout Texas, continues for the search for parts of the shuttle and try to investigate what has occurred. I'll begin this morning by giving you a status report of what has occurred so far.
We have approximately a 250 square mile path in Sabine County that we're having to search. We got around 40 square miles yesterday identified. And due to the rugged forest terrain that is around here, it's making the search difficult. And it's really painstakingly slow. But we're going to continue that today.
We had eight persons that went to the emergency room in San Augustine Hospital yesterday for burns and respiratory distress. And that was from them handling either the debris or breathing vapors that was from some of the debris that had fallen. We will begin to expand our search today, utilizing all the resources we have from the federal, state, and local governments, which include NASA, FBI, Secret Service, the U.S. Marshal Service, ATF, and then we get into our state resources of the forest services and Department of Public Safety, and our local sheriff and police departments, as well as the volunteer fire departments and others.
And we will continue our searching from the point that we had to leave off last night and expand out from that. We have approximately a three-mile section that we still have to cover between here and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) reservoir. And then we're also going to go back in the other direction and research some of that.
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Aired February 2, 2003 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning and welcome back to a special edition of AMERICAN MORNING. It is just under 24 hours since the space shuttle Columbia broke into flaming pieces during its landing approach.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Right now a massive effort spanning out across eastern Texas, western Louisiana. A grim search for the remains of Columbia and the crewmembers as well. Getting some reports that some human remains have been found in different locations. NASA, meanwhile, searching for answers for the cause of the tragedy of yesterday.
ZAHN: And we are trying to cover almost every aspect of the Columbia tragedy across America and around the world. Let's start off with Daryn Kagan, who's standing by at the Kennedy Space Center. Good morning again, Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Paula. I got to tell you, it's not easy to get on to the grounds of the Kennedy Space Center. You have to go through a number of checkpoints and get credentials. So we've been a little bit sequestered this morning; just now getting our hands on some of the papers. So I wanted to share that with our viewers and the headlines.
This from the "Orlando Sentinel," "Fatal Return," with a picture of the video that you saw so much on CNN yesterday. And then this one here, this is "Florida Today." This is a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) paper. This is looking forward, instead of looking backwards. And it announces the probe will target the wing. They are reporting that the probe, the investigation, will look into the piece of debris that possibly hit the left wing of the shuttle as it took off on January 16.
Also, looking outside the papers and looking outside Kennedy Space Center up and down this East Coast of Florida, I want to give you a sense of how this has really hit the community. And it's really easy to do that just by looking at a number of signs that have sprung up in an impromptu fashion. We have some video of some of those signs that have been springing up on car washes, fast food restaurants, memorials, as people -- our hearts are with the family and crew of Columbia.
"God bless Columbia's Crew," at a local car wash. "Seven Heroes." All you have to do is drive up and down the highways here and you'll see people expressing their feeling, whether it's in the newspapers or up on signs. We're going to keep our eye out for other signs of how people are dealing with the tragedy here in central Florida and up and down the coast, and we'll bring those to you a little bit later. Paula, back to you.
ZAHN: Thanks, Daryn. Look forward to that -- Bill.
HEMMER: One of the seven astronauts that we talked about with such an unbelievable life, 41-year-old mission specialist Laurel Clark. A wife and a mother. During yesterday's wakeup call from mission control, she was eager to be reunited with her family. That meeting that was planned just several minutes away. Sadly her family facing tragedy yet again.
Her aunt and uncle lost their son on 9/11. They shared their heartache with Judy Slate of our affiliate KCCI.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETTY HAVILAND, SON DIED ON 9/11: We had the feeling of deja vu when this happened and it's still there.
JUDY SLATE, KCCI CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Betty and Doug Haviland have been here before, anxiously watching the news, hoping for any new information about a loved one.
DOUG HAVILAND, SON DIED ON 9/11: Soon as you saw that debris beginning to break off from the shuttle it became pretty clear that, you know, they were in real trouble.
SLATE: Their niece, 41-year-old Laurel Clark, who was born in Ames (ph), was one of the astronauts on board the space shuttle Columbia when it disappeared.
D. HAVILAND: And she was very determined to get up into space. That was what she wanted to do.
SLATE: On September 11, 2001, the Havilands shared another national tragedy. Their son Tim was in the World Trade Center towers when terrorists struck. One family, two horrific events.
B. HAVILAND: And we've lost a family member in both of them. But the tragedy is not for us now, it's for Laurel's family. Our grieving.
SLATE: The Havilands received an e-mail from Laurel in space.
D. HAVILAND: It says, "Hello from above our magnificent planet earth. The perspective is truly awe inspiring. This is a terrific mission."
SLATE: It's a message Doug and Betty will forever cherish.
B. HAVILAND: We feel blessed that she did write and told about the wonderful experiences of being up there and looking down on planet earth.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ZAHN: Oh how sad. Tat heart break unfortunately felt throughout the country. Still to come, another national tragedy the U.S. must face coming so close after September 11. When we come back, learning to cope. We'll be joined by Rabbi Marc Gellman and Father Tom Hartman, otherwise known as The God Squad.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: We have talked a lot over the last 23 hours or so about the amount of debris that Americans unfortunately had to confront, especially in Texas. And let's check in with Maria Hinojosa, who joins us from the volunteer fire department in Hemphill, Texas, where unfortunately they're dealing with some of that this morning. Good morning, Maria.
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula. Hemphill is about 150 miles northeast of Houston. And it's between here and Nacogdoches and San Augustine that much of the debris has been found. And today the people who are gathering today, between 25 to 100 people from the fire department, from the sheriff's department, will start moving into a new phase of the search here.
And we are at the command center, which is basically where all of the areas will be coordinated. They will be moving out into an area that spans from -- difficult to talk about, Paula, but there's an area where they found one body part that was off of Route 83. And they will then span northwest, literally combing the area to the part where they found another body part on Route 96 South. And they will be fanning out between 10 to 15 feet between the men, and moving out into the Sabine National Forest.
Yesterday they were depending mostly on the phone calls, over 500 of them, that people were calling in to say what they found. At this point now, because this is a heavily wooded area, they have made the decision to now start taking the men and moving them out into the area. They will start within the next hour is what they're planning. And they will be looking for whatever they can find.
We have heard that in this area they found a patch from one of the -- the Columbia shuttle patches that was worn. Also a piece of clothing the size of about a skirt that was orange. Believed to be one of the jumpers. And, yes, unfortunately several body parts. And they are using the area between these two body parts to triangle moving northwest.
It's not that in this particular area that an extraordinary amount of debris has been found, but they are using this as the points where they will then move into the Sabine National Forest. A very sad day here in Hemphill. There are many people gathering here and at the command center. Many officials -- I just was in there; saw several from the FBI. We'll be hearing a press conference here within the hour. So we will bring that to you live as that happens, Paula.
ZAHN: Obviously, Maria, the folks that work there full-time at the fire department are trained to deal with catastrophes. And I'm just curious how they're walking the volunteers through the process of what they might come upon.
HINOJOSA: Well the volunteers will also be members of the fire department and the sheriff's department. And right now, they're having a meeting to start coordinating that. But they have participated in searches.
What they're going to be doing is, again, taking the visual eye. It's hard to describe, but this is a -- apart from these small towns, you have a large wooded areas. The farmers are able to spot the things that they see on their land, but once you get into the wooded areas there's concern that there might be large parts of the debris that has yet to be found.
This is a no-fly zone yet. So there are still no helicopters that can come up over from the sky, which is why they're going to go through this man by man and woman by woman, fanning out into the Sabine National Forest -- Paula.
ZAHN: And we wish them luck, as the shock is still so fresh. Maria Hinojosa reporting from Hemphill, Texas for us this morning -- Bill.
HEMMER: Paula, the shuttle disaster comes as this nation is still reeling from the attacks of 9/11 17 months ago. How then does the country cope with yet another tragedy that we have all watched now on television?
With us here today in New York, Rabbi Marc Gellman and Father Tom Hartman, otherwise known as The God Squad. Great to see you both again here. I should point out at the outset here you have counseled numerous families of the victims, not only from 9/11 here in New York City, but the crash of TWA 800 back in July of 1996. Father, quickly, your thoughts on what we're all going through today and seeing and witnessing and hearing about.
FATHER TOM HARTMAN, THE GOD SQUAD: Well, it's immense suffering. It's immense pain. When extraordinary heroes in our society are hurt or killed, it impacts on the whole country. And the first thing is, as we listened to what's happened, we realize that seven heroes have died. And what does that do to our psyche in the midst of the possibility of war and the economy and so many other things?
I think it continues to add to the anxiety, to the uncertainty. But we're a strong people. And usually after we hear of the death of somebody, we know while the body has died the spirit goes on. And that's what people rally around.
They go to prayer services. They talk to god about this. And they recognize that god takes this person and puts them in his hand and gives them a future that we all believe in. A life to come. Heaven, a world to come in (ph) Judaism.
HEMMER: It is my sense, anyway, that the country is in a different place now 17 months after 9/11. And how we react to this could be much different than it could have been perhaps in 1986 with the Challenger. Not to diminish in any way the lives of these seven men and women, but for our own understanding, interpretation, are we in a different place, Rabbi? Do you agree with that or not?
RABBI MARC GELLMAN, THE GOD SQUAD: Well yes and no. I think for the peoples whose lives have been broken by this tragedy, like a stone entering a pond, the ripples go everywhere. But they're more intense where the stone enters the water for the families, for the friends. This is the same as every tragedy.
It's an incomprehensible loss. And Tom and I are praying for all the families and all the relatives. For the country, I think you're right. It is different.
We are really at a point where we have to look at not only the expense of manned space exploration, but its effectiveness. The most wonderful thing that we've ever put in space was the telescope and there isn't a human being on it. And I think we have to look again at whether this is worth the risk of human life.
HEMMER: Wow. Wow. Going forward, as of yesterday, it appears that that is a foregone conclusion, that the space program continues despite the loss. I find it very interesting. Some of the reports we're getting out of Florida from yesterday, all the family members who had gathered for the return essentially were taken into one room, counseled and talked to. And we have heard now stories of amazing strength from these family members in the face of yesterday.
GELLMAN: Well see they get it together. They derive strength from each other's sorrow. And that's really a message everyone needs to learn, even in their tragedies, which don't get public exposure like this.
HARTMAN: Well not only were these extraordinary people who went through extraordinary means to get to where they were, but their families had to be also. Their families were part of their preparation and they knew that they might have to give up their loved ones.
HEMMER: We heard from the president yesterday. Just to take part of what he had to say, "The same creator who names the stars also knows the names of the seven souls we mourn today."
GELLMAN: I love the president and I love his willingness, because it's part of his nature to reach into his religious past and to his -- to the metaphors that come out of religious comfort. It's amazing. It's the old saying, "There's no atheist in a fox hole." And I think we're in a fox hole now, and it's wonderful to have a man of such natural faith leading us.
HEMMER: And we were talking before the end of the commercial break, the first Israeli astronaut was taken into space. And you have a rather poignant story of part of what he had carried into space with him. Share that.
GELLMAN: Yes. It's an amazing, almost chillingly ironic story. Ilan Ramon was given a drawing by Yad Veshem, the Israel Holocaust Museum. It was a drawing done during the time of the holocaust by a 14-year-old boy who was murder murdered in Auschwitz. The drawing was a drawing of what this little boy, who lived in Poland his whole life, thought the earth might look like from the perspective of outer space.
HEMMER: Wow.
GELLMAN: And he took this drawing into space with him, and the boy who was incinerated in Auschwitz gave this picture to an Israeli astronaut, who was incinerated in space, a survivor of a child of survivors himself. And the chilling irony of that, that this picture links two deaths, is on my soul and weighs on me heavily now.
HEMMER: Thanks for sharing. The God Squad, Rabbi Marc Gellman, Father Tom Hartman, thanks to both of you.
HARTMAN: Thanks.
GELLMAN: God bless you.
HEMMER: Here's Paula now.
ZAHN: The imagery of that kind of stops you from breathing, doesn't it? Wow, how powerful.
Still more ahead. We will have a NEWS ALERT right after the break. More on the Columbia tragedy. We will be joined by a documentary filmmaker who had complete access to the training and mission preparation for Columbia as he worked on his film about the man you've just heard about, Israeli astronaut Ilan Ramon. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: We're back at just about 10 minutes before the hour. And it was at this time yesterday that my colleague, Miles O'Brien -- I was watching you, Miles -- encouraged us all to go outside where it was clear and perhaps see the reentry of the space shuttle Columbia. And just moments later I guess you realized something had gone horribly wrong.
Miles joins us from the Johnson Space Center with some insights as to what investigators may be honing in on at this hour. Good morning, Miles. I can't believe you're still standing. I think we had you working almost 23 hours straight yesterday.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Adrenaline is a wonderful thing, Paula. I was trying to tell people to go out and look at the sky and see something beautiful. Instead they saw something completely horrific. We'll bring you up to date with some details on the investigation in just a moment. But the person who we're just about to talk to, his time is very valuable right now. So I want to bring him in right away.
The NASA administrator, Sean O'Keefe, joins us live from Washington. Good morning, Mr. O'Keefe. Our condolences to you and the entire NASA family.
SEAN O'KEEFE, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: Thank you, Miles. I mean, mostly we extend our condolences and our commitment to the families of the crew of Columbia. And we're going to find out what caused this. We're going to make sure we correct it, we're going to make sure this never happens again.
So it's a commitment we are -- our pledge to them. They are courageous people, and we positively are going to work through all of this. Thank you, Miles.
O'BRIEN: You've been administrator now for a year. The moment that any NASA administrator dreads is telling families that they have lost loved ones in a space craft that is under your control. You signed the paper saying it's good to launch. Tell us what that was like? How were you able to get through that? And how are the families doing?
O'KEEFE: It was about the most difficult thing I have ever encountered. But it was also inspiring to see the courage of each of them. The wives, husbands, children, fathers, mothers, I mean these were folks who started the day off, as you described earlier, in a happy mood, looking forward to the landing of an extraordinarily successful mission that had been pursued over the course of the previous couple of weeks and had done a magnificent job.
And this ended in tragedy in a way that just in a second all of a sudden turned their entire lives upside down. And even in that, they displayed a bravery and courage that has just -- I think all Americans should admire and be most respectful of. They're just an amazing group of people, and they're folks that clearly understand the risks that were involved. But no one wants to ever encounter these cases.
So we have committed to them, and I have personally committed to them that absolutely we're going to investigate this, tell them the facts of what was involved. Tell the American people what was involved. And we're going to determine what it is that caused this, fix it, and move on with the objectives of space exploration that all those courageous crewmembers dedicated their lives to.
O'BRIEN: I know that in the immediate wake of Challenger June Scobee-Rodgers and the families of that crew told the NASA administrator and Vice President Bush at that time that they felt strongly that their loved ones would not want NASA to end its manned space flight mission. Did you get that message from these families?
O'KEEFE: Absolutely. No question about it. And, as a matter of fact, just a week ago, had the opportunity with the families of the Challenger crew to spend time with them, to remember the courage of that remarkable group of crewmembers aboard Challenger in January of 1986. And we never would have imagined that just a little over a week later that we would have encountered a tragedy such as this. But that was precisely the same reaction of the families of the Columbia crew.
Just an amazing courageous group of people. And again, we owe it to them, every single second of the day, to be sure we dedicate ourselves to finding out what went wrong. Making sure the facts of the case are laid out and telling everybody exactly what it was and correcting the problems.
O'BRIEN: Do you have plans finalized for memorial services either here in Houston or Washington or maybe elsewhere?
O'KEEFE: We're working on both. And that should be wrapped up here fairly shortly in terms of an announcement of exactly when and where those events will be occurring. But stand by. We're working on that diligently right now, as well as the investigation that's underway.
O'BRIEN: Can you give us a date here in Houston yet?
O'KEEFE: Not yet. We're still working on some of the details. But we'll let you know soon as we possibly get that ironed out.
O'BRIEN: It's obviously very early to think about talking about what the causes might be, but let me ask you just a general question. If in fact the cause, it is determined that it is some sort of failed process, something that is sort of one off and not a fundamental redesign type of issue, how soon could NASA be flying again?
O'KEEFE: That's hard to tell, Miles. I don't want to preempt any possible outcome that could come from our internal investigation or from that of the independent objective investigative board that we've impaneled. We've asked Admiral (UNINTELLIGIBLE), who was the retired four-star admiral, commander in chief of the Atlantic fleet, who also was, after his retirement, was the presiding officer on the USS Cole incident you may three years ago.
He is well versed, tragically, in the understanding of accident investigation. And we've asked him to come to an objective view of exactly what caused this accident. So we're going to provide all the information in our internal investigation and let the facts speak to what happened. And we're going to correct it and move on and be sure that we fly safely, as is our commitment each and every time we launch and each and every time there's a landing.
And something happened here. And we're going to find out what it was and make sure we correct it.
O'BRIEN: NASA administrator Sean O'Keefe, busy days lie ahead. Long days ahead. Thank you very much for taking some time with us this morning.
O'KEEFE: Thank you, Miles. And thank you for your very thorough coverage of what we're doing. We appreciate it very much.
O'BRIEN: All right -- Paula.
ZAHN: I have to say, your reporting brought me a great deal of comfort, Miles. Having interviewed all of the astronauts on this mission, having done some of the training yourself, potentially, to go into space, you clearly made some of the details available to us very, very early on.
HEMMER: Well done.
ZAHN: We wanted to share with all of you right now a map to give you an idea of what NASA is up against, what the FAA is up against, as they try to comb through some of the debris that has fallen. Of course, the space shuttle Columbia exploding about 40 miles above the earth. The debris extending in, we're told, a couple hundred square mile area, running from Texas and Arkansas into Louisiana.
But what you're looking at here is the FAA restricted flight zone that runs from Cedar Creek, Texas, just south of Dallas, to Ft. Polk, Louisiana. That zone in and of itself is about 160 miles long, 40 miles wide. That will make it easier for the investigators on the ground to collect debris and to keep unnecessary aircraft out of the area. And I guess what's so heartbreaking is to hear Maria Hinojosa's report talking about folks in Hemphill, Texas, that have not only stumbled upon debris, but body parts as well.
HEMMER: Getting indications right now Hemphill Texas, an area right now where we are getting more information 8:00 local time there. Let's listen to see what we can learn more about the debris that is landing there.
Before this gets under way, Paula, just to put a button on the FAA order, no aircraft can fly below 3,000 feet in this area that you described, 160 miles long, 40 miles long. Here's Hemphill now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Newton and Sabine Counties.
TOM MADDOX: I'm Tom Maddox (ph). I'm the sheriff of Sabine County.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This morning, as we still grieve the loss of our heroes, our space heroes, and extend our prayers to the family of these astronauts, these very courageous people, our efforts here in Sabine, Newton and Jasper County, and throughout Texas, continues for the search for parts of the shuttle and try to investigate what has occurred. I'll begin this morning by giving you a status report of what has occurred so far.
We have approximately a 250 square mile path in Sabine County that we're having to search. We got around 40 square miles yesterday identified. And due to the rugged forest terrain that is around here, it's making the search difficult. And it's really painstakingly slow. But we're going to continue that today.
We had eight persons that went to the emergency room in San Augustine Hospital yesterday for burns and respiratory distress. And that was from them handling either the debris or breathing vapors that was from some of the debris that had fallen. We will begin to expand our search today, utilizing all the resources we have from the federal, state, and local governments, which include NASA, FBI, Secret Service, the U.S. Marshal Service, ATF, and then we get into our state resources of the forest services and Department of Public Safety, and our local sheriff and police departments, as well as the volunteer fire departments and others.
And we will continue our searching from the point that we had to leave off last night and expand out from that. We have approximately a three-mile section that we still have to cover between here and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) reservoir. And then we're also going to go back in the other direction and research some of that.
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