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CNN Live At Daybreak

Looking Ahead to Future of Space Program

Aired February 03, 2003 - 06:51   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: We want to look ahead now to the future of the space program in the aftermath of Columbia's disaster.
Space policy analyst Nick Fuhrman joins us with his insights this morning.

Thanks for waking up early with us.

NICK FUHRMAN, SPACE POLICY ANALYST: Oh, Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: I want to start with the investigation, though, because we've gotten so many e-mails from people asking about this -- what flew off the shuttle upon its launch?

We want to take a look at video right now, because we've slowed it way down and maybe you can help us determine exactly what that thing was that flew off the shuttle. Are we seeing that right -- there it is. OK. A lot of people think it was foam insulation. Others think it was something else.

What are your thoughts?

FUHRMAN: Well, at this point in the launch, you know, it's very icy. If it's cold from the liquid hydrogen that's in the tank, whatever may have fallen off could be ice. It could be a piece of foam insulation, spray on foam insulation.

COSTELLO: Well, let's talk about that foam insulation. It would be very hard to recover, because it fell off from -- tell us why.

FUHRMAN: Oh, it's in the ocean someplace. It's gone. It may have been burned by the thrust of the engines on the shuttle. They'll never probably be able to see that. The only way to know what happened to the tank would have been to have the video that was taken by the shuttle after the launch.

COSTELLO: And as we saw by those pictures, it's very hard to determine what that was. OK, so you think of foam insulation and you don't think of it being very hard. It's soft stuff. Why would it have been powerful enough to knock out some of those tiles, perhaps?

FUHRMAN: Oh, well, now we're getting ahead. Now we're getting ahead of the reality and the investigation, as I understand it, would stop right there with the supposition along with the supposition that perhaps something happened in the wheel wells, the seals around the tiles. There's a lot of supposition at this point and questions that have to be asked and answered and worked through in a methodical way. So I wouldn't even connect the video that we saw with the cause until we have ruled out all the other possibilities.

COSTELLO: Got you. And there are many, many possibilities, as you've just said.

That things would fall off a shuttle upon launch, is that unusual?

FUHRMAN: Well, we've had, you know, it's a human program. It's a human ambition to go into space and it's built by humans. And the tiles are literally glued to the bottom of the shuttle by human beings one at a time. I mean, 27,000...

COSTELLO: So actually you have a guy gluing this...

FUHRMAN: That's right.

COSTELLO: ... tile to the shuttle?

FUHRMAN: That's right.

COSTELLO: By hand.

FUHRMAN: By hand. And they're all certified and counted and after every flight inspected by humans. And so this is a system that, you know, is prone to the potential of error and, you know, no one is going to try and blame an individual, but when we understand what happened, we will understand what process was involved, whether it was a glue on the tile, whether it was a seal on the wheel well. These are all things that forensically we hope through the, you know, by combing through the debris we can determine, as well as looking at all the data.

COSTELLO: Yes, I was reading through your pre-interview here and it, I mean I don't know whether to categorize it like this or describe it like this, but things were just a little off kilter for this mission. You were talking about the space suits not being quite up to par, not being ready.

FUHRMAN: Well, there was an issue back as they were getting ready to launch it with contamination in the EVA space suits, which were not required for this mission. There was no plan to use astronauts in space individually floating around, as they're trained to do. But they carry the EVA suits in case they need to go out into the payload bay to close something out, fix a switch that is, you know, isn't tamping down. And for that reason they have to have the suits.

And there was an issue of contamination. Since they weren't required, I think they stepped over -- they satisfied themselves that they wouldn't -- wouldn't hold up the mission.

COSTELLO: So when they finally went up there, were the space suits functioning? Did they have them with them? FUHRMAN: They did and they couldn't use them, though, in this particular instance, to go out and inspect. I mean there was no robotic arm. There was no camera on the arm to do this -- to do any...

COSTELLO: So even having known a tile was askew, they couldn't have gone out to investigate it?

FUHRMAN: They've never sent an astronaut over the side of the payload bay. You know, it's like a big bathtub back there. It's the size of two Greyhound buses. They have never sent an astronaut over the wing or outside or, let alone underneath the belly of the shuttle.

COSTELLO: Got you.

FUHRMAN: And they wouldn't do it unless they trained them for it.

COSTELLO: Understand.

Well, the investigation will take quite some time, as you might expect.

Thank you for giving us your insight this morning. We appreciate it.

FUHRMAN: My pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 3, 2003 - 06:51   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: We want to look ahead now to the future of the space program in the aftermath of Columbia's disaster.
Space policy analyst Nick Fuhrman joins us with his insights this morning.

Thanks for waking up early with us.

NICK FUHRMAN, SPACE POLICY ANALYST: Oh, Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: I want to start with the investigation, though, because we've gotten so many e-mails from people asking about this -- what flew off the shuttle upon its launch?

We want to take a look at video right now, because we've slowed it way down and maybe you can help us determine exactly what that thing was that flew off the shuttle. Are we seeing that right -- there it is. OK. A lot of people think it was foam insulation. Others think it was something else.

What are your thoughts?

FUHRMAN: Well, at this point in the launch, you know, it's very icy. If it's cold from the liquid hydrogen that's in the tank, whatever may have fallen off could be ice. It could be a piece of foam insulation, spray on foam insulation.

COSTELLO: Well, let's talk about that foam insulation. It would be very hard to recover, because it fell off from -- tell us why.

FUHRMAN: Oh, it's in the ocean someplace. It's gone. It may have been burned by the thrust of the engines on the shuttle. They'll never probably be able to see that. The only way to know what happened to the tank would have been to have the video that was taken by the shuttle after the launch.

COSTELLO: And as we saw by those pictures, it's very hard to determine what that was. OK, so you think of foam insulation and you don't think of it being very hard. It's soft stuff. Why would it have been powerful enough to knock out some of those tiles, perhaps?

FUHRMAN: Oh, well, now we're getting ahead. Now we're getting ahead of the reality and the investigation, as I understand it, would stop right there with the supposition along with the supposition that perhaps something happened in the wheel wells, the seals around the tiles. There's a lot of supposition at this point and questions that have to be asked and answered and worked through in a methodical way. So I wouldn't even connect the video that we saw with the cause until we have ruled out all the other possibilities.

COSTELLO: Got you. And there are many, many possibilities, as you've just said.

That things would fall off a shuttle upon launch, is that unusual?

FUHRMAN: Well, we've had, you know, it's a human program. It's a human ambition to go into space and it's built by humans. And the tiles are literally glued to the bottom of the shuttle by human beings one at a time. I mean, 27,000...

COSTELLO: So actually you have a guy gluing this...

FUHRMAN: That's right.

COSTELLO: ... tile to the shuttle?

FUHRMAN: That's right.

COSTELLO: By hand.

FUHRMAN: By hand. And they're all certified and counted and after every flight inspected by humans. And so this is a system that, you know, is prone to the potential of error and, you know, no one is going to try and blame an individual, but when we understand what happened, we will understand what process was involved, whether it was a glue on the tile, whether it was a seal on the wheel well. These are all things that forensically we hope through the, you know, by combing through the debris we can determine, as well as looking at all the data.

COSTELLO: Yes, I was reading through your pre-interview here and it, I mean I don't know whether to categorize it like this or describe it like this, but things were just a little off kilter for this mission. You were talking about the space suits not being quite up to par, not being ready.

FUHRMAN: Well, there was an issue back as they were getting ready to launch it with contamination in the EVA space suits, which were not required for this mission. There was no plan to use astronauts in space individually floating around, as they're trained to do. But they carry the EVA suits in case they need to go out into the payload bay to close something out, fix a switch that is, you know, isn't tamping down. And for that reason they have to have the suits.

And there was an issue of contamination. Since they weren't required, I think they stepped over -- they satisfied themselves that they wouldn't -- wouldn't hold up the mission.

COSTELLO: So when they finally went up there, were the space suits functioning? Did they have them with them? FUHRMAN: They did and they couldn't use them, though, in this particular instance, to go out and inspect. I mean there was no robotic arm. There was no camera on the arm to do this -- to do any...

COSTELLO: So even having known a tile was askew, they couldn't have gone out to investigate it?

FUHRMAN: They've never sent an astronaut over the side of the payload bay. You know, it's like a big bathtub back there. It's the size of two Greyhound buses. They have never sent an astronaut over the wing or outside or, let alone underneath the belly of the shuttle.

COSTELLO: Got you.

FUHRMAN: And they wouldn't do it unless they trained them for it.

COSTELLO: Understand.

Well, the investigation will take quite some time, as you might expect.

Thank you for giving us your insight this morning. We appreciate it.

FUHRMAN: My pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com