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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
U.S. Government Raises Threat Level; Clara Harris Takes Witness Stand; Interview With Uri Geller
Aired February 7, 2003 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, CNN HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
The nation is at high risk for terrorist attack, as the government raises the threat level.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Threat level orange. The national terror alert is raised to high risk.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: This decision for an increased threat condition designation is based on specific intelligence received and analyzed by the full intelligence community.
ANNOUNCER: Tonight: the warning to Americans. What does it mean?"
In her own defense. Clara Harris tells the jury what happened the night her husband died under the wheels of her Mercedes. Is this the turning point in a twisted trial?
Trouble in Neverland.
MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: You say bed, you're thinking sexual. They make that sexual. It's not sexual. We're going to sleep.
ANNOUNCER: Michael Jackson's TV tell-all tells more than he wanted. Tonight, one of Michael's closest friends comes to his defense.
She defends the accused in "The Practice."
CAMRYN MANHEIM, ACTRESS: That's not an issue before this court.
In real life, she stands up for overweight women.
MANHEIM: I want women to stop judging their self-worth on the size of their waist and more on the size of their spirit.
ANNOUNCER: Emmy and Golden Globe winner Camryn Manheim.
Plus, our "Person of the Day'. It's like having granddad on duty.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ANNOUNCER: This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening.
The nation tonight is on high alert for terrorist attacks and security is being increased at major bridges, tunnels, and ports.
The government raised the threat level of a terrorist attack to orange. That means the nation is at high risk for a terrorist attack. It could be an attack by chemical or biological weapons at locations not typically under tight security, such as hotels and apartment buildings.
Law enforcement sources tell CNN the East Coast may be targeted, with intercepted messages specifically mentioning subways and hotels.
This is only the second time since 9/11 terrorist attacks that the national alert level has risen above yellow, which means elevated.
CNN's Jean Meserve has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ASHCROFT: This decision for an increased threat condition designation is based on specific intelligence received and analyzed by the full intelligence community. This information has been corroborated by multiple intelligence sources.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In recent months, terrorists hit a nightclub in Indonesia, a resort hotel in Kenya, and the attorney general expressed concern about similar soft or unprotected targets in the United States as well as the transportation and energy sectors and symbols of the United States and its power.
He also noted al Qaeda's continuing efforts to obtain, chemical, biological and radiological weapons.
Federal officials reached out to state and local governments, the public health community and the private sector, which controls much of the nation's critical infrastructure. But the lack of specificity about the means of attack or possible targets made upgrading security something of a guessing game.
At the border crossing near Buffalo, New York, more people were questioned, more vehicles inspected.
At federal buildings, there were more checks of hand carried items and at airports, more parking restrictions, more random examinations of passengers and more air marshals in the sky.
ED FLYNN, MASSACHUSETTS PUBLIC SAFETY SECY.: Clearly, airports are essential parts of our transportation grid. Airports have been facilities that have been attacked in the past or used as a basis for attack, . MESERVE: The response is unlikely to be uniform. In September, the last time the nation went to orange threat status, one-third of cities said they made no changes in security.
The public is also being asked to play a part.
TOM RIDGE, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: We ask you to remain aware and remain alert. We are not recommending that events be canceled or travel or other plans be changed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Ridge recommended Americans prepare themselves and their families for a possible emergency. But the most urgent appeal is for Americans to keep their eyes open and report anything suspicious to authorities. Some officials feel that is the way terrorism is most likely to be detected and disrupted -- Connie.
CHUNG: Jeanne, the FBI is asking the public for some help, looking for a 36-year-old Pakistani man. What can you tell us about this man?
MESERVE: He's identified on the FBI Web site as Mohammed Sher Mohammad Khan, 36 years old. Authorities believe he may have entered illegally a week before the September 11 attacks. His picture, his aliases and vital information are listed on the FBI Web site, the FBI saying officially that they have no specific information that he's involved in terrorist activities but he is someone they want to talk to.
Sources tell CNN's Kelli Arena that the information on this individual was developed in the course of investigations overseas. According to those sources this individual allegedly made threats against the United States. They say they have very little information about him.
Other sources telling CNN that this individual is not the primary reason that the threat level status was increased today but he was a factor -- Connie.
CHUNG: Jeanne, does this terrorist alert have anything to do with possible war in Iraq?
MESERVE: I can tell you, Connie, that in conversations I've had with homeland security officials at various levels of government the last several weeks, they did expect that if hostilities began, the threat level would go up.
But today, U.S. officials are saying there is absolutely no connection. They have made this increase because they received intelligence about al Qaeda activities around the world. They believe al Qaeda is not keying in on any sort of specific date or on hostilities. Rather, al Qaeda decides to act against U.S. interests when it is ready, and they are afraid al Qaeda is ready right now -- Connie.
CHUNG: Now Attorney General Ashcroft mentioned soft targets and economic targets. What's he talking about?
MESERVE: Soft targets are unprotected targets, things like shopping malls and hotels, things like that, where you wouldn't ordinarily see a large security presence. Clearly, those have been the targets of terrorist attack in Indonesia, also in Kenya. So that's why the worry there.
As to economic targets, it has always been the understanding of U.S. officials that one of the goals of al Qaeda has been to disrupt the United States economically. They want to bring the country to its knees and that is one way to do it. And so there's particular concern about points where that part of the United States might be vulnerable, places like ports. That is why today there is increased screening going on of cargo at ports around the country.
CHUNG: Jean Meserve, thank you.
There is a European connection to today's announcement. CNN's Sheila MacVicar has been following this story from London. Good evening, Shelia.
Now today Attorney General Ashcroft did not specify what type of terrorist attack might occur, but he did mention the arrests that were made in London recently.
Let's listen to a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHCROFT: There are also indications ,bolstered by the recent arrests in London, where chemical ricin was discovered. These indications demonstrate al Qaeda's interest in carrying out chemical, biological, and radiological attacks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Shelia, do your intelligence sources tell you that there is any possibility that terrorist operatives of that kind are in the United States?
SHELIA MACVICAR, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We have had an incident here in London which has been connected by Secretary of State Powell and by investigators here, this ricin question, to arrests which were made in France, arrests in which we know there were cyanide compounds discovered.
Those arrests, in turn, are connected to arrests made in Spain where we know barrels of chemicals were found. Barrels of chemicals the Spanish government officials said were destined for, they said, a chemical attack somewhere in Europe. All of these things have been linked back specifically to al Qaeda trainers, to people who have long been associated with al Qaeda's chemical and biological weapons program.
And in talking to investigators and to intelligence people here in Europe, as we heard the attorney general say, they believe that there is no reason why these attacks or the threat of these attacks should stop at these shores of the Atlantic Ocean.
CHUNG: Shelia, after military action in Afghanistan, it was thought that al Qaeda's infrastructure was destroyed. But now we're hearing that there has been a lot of chatter, about the same level as it was pre-9/11.
So the question is: has al Qaeda reorganized and regained strength?
MACVICAR: We know a lot of things about the way in which al Qaeda and its operatives have been able to moves. There was a very successful, if you will, exfiltration. They were able to move a lot of very senior people out of Afghanistan.
Of course, the biggest one of all, Osama bin Laden is believed to still be alive somewhere in the Afghan/Pakistani border, hiding and still able to communicate.
But there are other people, they have been able to recruit, they have been able to motivate, and they have been able to rebuild, if not the same kind of large-scale groups which were capable of carrying out the attacks of 9/11, we have seen them operate in many different places.
If you look at the bomb attack in Bali, the bombing attacks in Mombasa, the bombing of the French tanker of Limbergh, the shootings in Kuwait. There's been a whole series of smaller scale, sort of medium scale attacks which clearly have suggested to investigators and to those who follow al Qaeda that they are active.
CHUNG: Shelia, we just heard from Jean Meserve, officials here are saying there's no connection between this threat and possible war with Iraq.
What have you learned about the timing of this particular threat?
MACVICAR: Well, we heard today from the attorney general. He talked about a very specific period of time that seemed to end in mid- February with the ending of the Hajj, the annual pilgrimage, the very -- the period of great devotion in Mecca, which is the duty of every Muslim to do when and if they can.
Now that period ends in mid-February and the attorney general seemed to suggest that the period of the greatest threat was around the end of the Haj. It's very clear, I think, that there are people in Europe who believe that as we move, if we move closer to confrontation with Iraq, the threat level will go up.
That not necessarily that Iraq and al Qaeda will work together, but al Qaeda will use this and will seek to motivate more people and seek whatever anger comes out of the possibility of a U.S.-led attack against Iraq in order to motivate people towards extremist and violent actions.
CHUNG: Sheila MacVicar, thank you. Meanwhile, President Bush continues to press his case for strong U.N. action against Iraq. He called the presidents of China and France, two of the Security Council members, that want to give weapons more time. In Baghdad, the foreign ministry said three more Iraqi scientists gave private interviews to the inspectors. More on the inspectors in tonight's "World in 60."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG (voice-over): United Nations weapons inspectors checked at least four sites in Iraq today. Among them, a company the U.N. says is linked to missile production.
The chief weapons inspectors head back to Baghdad this weekend. Mohamed ElBaradei and Hans Blix say they want more cooperation from Iraq. And they say a meeting with Saddam Hussein might help.
A NASA official says searchers in Texas have found what is described as a large piece of a wing of the space shuttle. NASA says it may be important in determining what caused Columbia to break apart as it reentered the Earth's atmosphere.
And four officers in the Cuban coast guard left their country for the U.S. while they were still on duty. They arrived in Key West, Florida on their 30-foot boat and walked into the tourist district, seeking asylum.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Next, she was behind the wheel of the Mercedes that killed her husband. Clara Harris takes the stand in her own defense. Was it an accident? Or murder? CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: It was the moment everyone had been waiting for. Clara Harris on the witness stand, in her own defense, telling a Houston jury what happened the night she caught her husband with another woman and then ran him over in her Mercedes. Weeping uncontrollably at times, Harris told the jury that everything happened in slow motion, and nothing made sense the night her husband died.
CNN Investigative Correspondent Art Harris has been covering the trial. Art, in the courtroom for this big moment, how did she do on the witness stand and how did she describe that specific moment when she ran over her husband?
ART HARRIS, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Connie, she was composed and she was emotional. She sobbed at least a dozen times, but she said that when she came into the lobby, there was Gail and there was David coming off the elevator, holding hands. He had a kind of Mona Lisa smile on his face. She rushed at Gail, grabbed her hair and called her a son of a bitch in the lobby. She said, "That's my husband, David Harris. He's having an affair with that woman." Tried to embarrass him outside in the Mercedes. She said she meant to ram the Navigator of the mistress, the Lincoln Navigator, and came around the side with her car. And clipped it. She said she did not see David or Gail Bridges, just three people there.
She said, "I thought I saw some surprised eyes and they looked like David's eyes." Then she said he ran in front of her, "and I kept looking at him." She said, "I think I closed my eyes. After that, I didn't know who was driving. Everything was like a dream."
Then she saw his body on the pavement, said, "I couldn't understand what he was doing there." And she held her hands as if she was cupping his face hands in her hands, as she had outside, and said, "Talk to me, talk to me," -- Connie.
CHUNG: How did she hold up on the witness stand, Art?
HARRIS: She held up remarkably well. She broke down a number of times. But she kept telling her story, kept insisting that, especially on cross examination, that it was an accident, she did not mean to hit Gail or David, that she couldn't remember a lot of what happened, when she was driving, but she did hold up fairly well.
CHUNG: And how did the prosecutor do on cross examination?
HARRIS: The prosecutor confronted her with a number of her statements that night, like "I didn't want to kill him but I wanted to hurt him."
And seeing David beside Gail at the SUV, she said, "I was trying to separate him from her."
And she was asked if what happened was intentional or accidental. She kept saying, "I know it was an accident. I never saw hitting him, I never saw running over him, I never saw it, I never felt it, so what can I tell you?"
"The truth," said the prosecutor.
"I am telling you my truth." That's what she said.
CHUNG: Oh, my. Art, was there any reaction from the jury?
HARRIS: It's hard to read jury tea leaves, Connie. They were paying very close attention. They didn't cry, as spectators did. And Clara made eye contact with them and tried to look at them as they left, but none of them returned her look.
CHUNG: All right. Art Harris, thank you.
Joining us now, two friends of Clara and David Harris, Glenn Garrison and Hildegart Hoquee. Thank you so much for being with us. Hildegart, I know you were in the courtroom. How do you think your friend held up?
HILDEGART HOQUEE, FAMILY FRIEND: I think she felt up very well. She was very composed. She cried several times and she was asked by the prosecutor the same question one, two, three times, and she answers her same answer. And I could see that she was just saying, that's my answer and I'm not going to change my answer.
CHUNG: Glenn, you're a dentist, you went to dental school with David and you knew both of them quite well. Is Clara Harris a hot- tempered woman who could intentionally kill her husband?
GLENN GARRISON, FRIEND OF DAVID HARRIS: Not in my experience at all. Clara is a very sweet person, very devoted family person, cares about her children. I've never, ever seen her lose her temper.
CHUNG: And, Hildegart, had you seen any changes in David prior to his death?
HOQUEE: OK, I visited his office because my son is having some Dental work at his office. I had noticed that he has lost lots of weight. And also I found him very friendly and up and happy. But to me, he always had been a happy person. What I kind of found a little bit more the last time I saw him in July.
CHUNG: Glenn, what do you think should happen to Clara Harris?
GARRISON: Well, what I'd like to see happen for Clara is for her to be able to get back to those boys. They're victims in this. Lindsay is a victim in this. But to get her back to raising those children. They need a parent. And of course, that's up to the jury to decide. But I'd like to see her back with her children.
CHUNG: All right, Glen Garrison and Hildegart Hoquee, I thank you so much for being with us.
GARRISON: Thank you.
CHUNG: And joining us now, CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Wow.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Wow. Exactly.
CHUNG: I don't know. It had to be a big gamble for her to get up on the stand.
TOOBIN: But boy, it sounds like a gamble, but the defense was smart to take. Because in a case like this, you have a defendant who doesn't have a prior record, who has a sympathetic story to tell, who told this vivid story about what a bomb her husband was. I mean, sitting there, at one point she talked about having -- writing on a cocktail napkin as he compared the virtues of his wife and his girlfriend. I mean, how humiliating. But the jury has got to sympathize with her. The question is, is that enough to get her off?
CHUNG: Let's listen to her testimony here. She said, everything -- she's talking about the moment. She says, "everything was in slow motion, nothing made sense. I closed my eyes and didn't know who was driving." Is that something that juries buy? TOOBIN: It might, given the context. I mean, obviously, this was a very emotional time. And, you know, she has to explain somehow. Her big problem, and I don't know if she did it on the witness stand, this isn't just one accident, this is hitting her husband three times with the car. That's what the prosecution's going emphasize in summing up. That's the strongest part of the prosecution case.
CHUNG: Could she actually be acquitted?
TOOBIN: Absolutely. I mean, this jury has got to sympathize with her. And if they really believe that she didn't know what she was doing, and she is at some level very sympathetic, and her husband is being portrayed as this horrible bum. He even called his wife fat, and everybody knows what a sin that is. You know, this is something I think a jury definitely could acquit. I don't know whether they will or not. But it's a defensible case.
CHUNG: No, they have something in Texas called sudden passion, and that really relates to the sentencing. So she could be found guilty, right?
TOOBIN: Absolutely. But it's sort of like temporary insanity. Various states have different terms for it. It's called sudden passion in Texas. And it makes a big difference whether you're convicted of straight out murder, where the sentence is very heavy. Sudden passion gives the judge a lot more leeway to give a much a lighter sentence. I think if she's convicted, the defense has got to be hoping that sudden passion is the way the jury goes.
CHUNG: Because she'd get a lesser sentence?
TOOBIN: By far.
CHUNG: All right, from what I understand, closing arguments will be on Monday.
TOOBIN: Right.
CHUNG: How much of a part will they play?
TOOBIN: You know, I think they mean a lot. Certainly not as much...
CHUNG: They mean a lot?
TOOBIN: Oh, absolutely. Oh, summations always mean a lot. The Michael Skakel case was unusual. There was a case that I'm convinced was completely won in summation by the prosecution.
When the defendant testifies, that is the thing that always matters the most to the jury. But summations, the last thing the jury hears before they go to deliberate, always very important, especially here when there's that legal issue. Both sides will undoubtedly talk about sudden passion. That's something that the jury will be thinking about when they go to think it over.
CHUNG: And that will probably happen soon.
TOOBIN: Absolutely.
CHUNG: Jeffrey Toobin, thank you.
Coming up, reaction to that bizarre Michael Jackson interview, which aired in the U.S. last night.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up, he admits to sleep-overs with children in his own bedroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: I tuck them in, I put little -- like music on, do a little story time, read a book. It's very sweet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, reaction to Jackson. CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: People just can't stop talking about the interview with Michael Jackson. A British documentary, which aired in the U.S. last night. Millions of people were watching as Jackson revealed he allows young children to sleep in his bed. Incredibly, he also claims he's had no cosmetic surgery, except some work on his nose to help him breathe. CNN's Jamie Colby has clips from the interview, and the controversy surrounding it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE COLBY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The king of pop like you've never seen him, in a documentary that tells all. Jackson's plastic surgery. A youthful encounter with Tatum O'Neal.
JACKSON: She told me to go over and lie on the bed, and I did. I laid on the bed. And she slowly walked over. And she touched the button of my shirt to open it, and I took my hands like this.
COLBY: The birth of his children. Claims his father beat him. And his young friends.
JACKSON: We're going to sleep. I tuck them in, I put a little like music on, do a little story time, read a book. It's very sweet. Put the fireplace on, give them hot milk. You know, we have little cookies. It's very charming. Very sweet.
COLBY: Everyone's talking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody's buzzing about the big Michael Jackson show last night.
COLBY: Phones are hopping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your input here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's absolutely disgusting.
COLBY: And opinions are across the board.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I just don't think he's capable of making practical decisions, the correct decisions for these kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I have sympathy for him. You've seen the stories, you've heard about his father.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you have a child, it's time to stop acting like a child.
COLBY: "Living With Michael," courtesy of BBC reporter Martin Bashir, had it all. Stories of slumber parties.
JACKSON: When you say bed, you're thinking sexual. They make that sexual. It's not sexual. We're going to sleep.
COLBY: That sparked outrage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe that child welfare services should interview every child that has been at Neverland with Mr. Jackson, in his bedroom or anywhere else in the home, without the presence of their parents. Find out what's going on, and take appropriate action.
COLBY: Jackson defends his handling of his youngest child at a Berlin hotel.
JACKSON: I would never do that to my children or any child. Try to kill them? Come on, stupid.
COLBY: Did viewers believe Michael?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think? Liar.
COLBY (on camera): Did Bashir paint an accurate portrayal of Michael Jackson? His fans say Michael was taken. They claim he's just a mega star who never had anything normal happen in his life. Is Michael just a grown-up trying to reclaim a childhood he never had?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't want to grow up?
JACKSON: No, I am Peter Pan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you're not. You're Michael Jackson.
JACKSON: I'm Peter Pan by heart.
COLBY (voice-over): Why Jackson did this interview is anyone's guess.
Now he's fuming. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had worked with Martin Bashir for eight months to produce what he thought was an intimate, fair and genuine documentary. And he was appalled and devastated by the program that he saw.
COLBY: Jackson's fans remain true.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he's a freak. I love him. He's the king of pop culture.
COLBY: They love their gloved one.
Jamie Colby, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: More on the Jackson interview in a moment, including the man who convinced Michael Jackson to do the interview, and another friend who says he's worried about the singer's mental health.
Coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Before we talk with two men who know Michael Jackson quite well and get their take on the documentary, I want to read you this statement released through a Jackson spokesperson -- quote -- "Michael is devastated and feels utterly betrayed by the British television program, which he regards as a gross distortion of truth and a tawdry attempt to misrepresent his life and abilities as a father."
Joining us now are two men who have been close friends of Michael Jackson, seen here with the entertainer, Uri Geller in London, who set up what has now become a controversial interview; and author and talk radio host Rabbi Shmuley Boteach.
Thank you both for being with us.
RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, FORMER SPIRITUAL ADVISER TO MICHAEL JACKSON: Thank you for having us, Connie.
URI GELLER, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Thank you.
CHUNG: Rabbi Boteach, you've known Michael Jackson for a while and you actually worked with him on projects that involved children. What did you find most disturbing about this interview? Because I think the general consensus is that there were many parts of it that were disturbing.
BOTEACH: I only saw a part of it.
And I was nauseated and sickened that a man of Michael's ability and God-given talent should have so -- should have become unglued on international TV. Michael's a profoundly private person. Why he submitted himself to this kind of invasion of his life is beyond me. I always used to say to him, when these requests first came in for this interview about two years ago, that: You'll never be more famous than you are. You're one of the three most recognizable names on the planet. What you need is credibility, as opposed to celebrity. Go to universities. Lecture to major bodies. If you want to be a true activist for children's rights, then you have to be taken seriously.
We gave a lecture at Oxford for that reason. We gave a lecture at Carnegie Hall. Michael Jackson is a man who has a profound spiritual core. He was a Jehovah's Witness. He used to witness, even after "Thriller" came out. He was the No. 1 star in the world. He would knock on doors and he would sell "The Watchtower" magazine.
When he severed himself from that spiritual life, he lost his anchor. And now we see him, sadly, as being totally adrift. And my heart breaks for a man who has a golden heart. He's a philanthropist. He's a profoundly good man. But no one can watch that interview and not see an idol that all of us had so many years, a guy who entertained us, who danced for us, who sang with us, and not be heartbroken that this is what it's coming to.
CHUNG: Uri, you must be mortified, because, after all, you helped arrange this interview. And, surely, this did not put Michael Jackson in a positive light.
GELLER: I'm devastated. I'm angry. And I feel betrayed, like Michael Jackson, because, you see, when I invited Martin Bashir to my home eight months ago, just the day before I took Michael to
(CROSSTALK)
CHUNG: No, but wait, wait, wait.
Uri, this is not about the interviewer. This is about your friend Michael Jackson and what he said.
GELLER: Yes, but you must understand that there are borders, ethical borders also for journalists. And it's no one's business what Michael Jackson did to his face. Those questions were harsh. And Michael sat there with brutal honesty.
(CROSSTALK)
CHUNG: Why didn't he tell the truth about his cosmetic surgery?
GELLER: Look, I don't know.
I don't think for Michael Jackson. I'm not his mind. But, Connie, under those pressures, the man has no privacy. There were cameras in the room. He was under tremendous stress. Why he said what he said, I don't know. But I can tell you this, that his sincerity and honesty and innocence shone through the program.
He was sitting there answering those very hard questions. And you know what? He had nothing to hide, nothing whatsoever. He invited Martin Bashir into his home. He let Martin...
CHUNG: Uri, do you believe that Michael Jackson was under stress for eight months?
GELLER: Wait a minute.
Do you know for sure that it was indeed eight months? How do you know that it wasn't only six meetings and maybe only three interviews? Michael Jackson is under constant pressure all the time. The media is hounding him. His fans, there are hundreds of thousands of Michael Jackson fans. God bless them, but they're obsessed with him.
There's absolutely no privacy. This is why he's a lonely person. And the documentary was just really mind-blowing, because the 80 percent of the show was very good. It showed Michael in a very positive light. But towards the end, it turned dark. It just indicates to me how manipulative these type of documentaries can be.
CHUNG: Rabbi, there was a portion in which Michael Jackson admits to sleeping with children. Do you believe that he has done anything in the past that's untoward regarding children?
BOTEACH: When I first started working on initiatives with Michael to get parents to have dinner with their kids and to get parents to read storybooks to their children before they go to sleep, of course we confronted the '93 allegations. Michael assured me nothing had happened. I believed him. It was only one kid.
Michael was never indicted. He was never charged. he Was never convicted. A lot of kids would have come forward, I think. And also remember that the police raided Neverland. They found nothing. But, still, Michael said to me, he understood the propriety of never being seen to have children in his bedroom, let alone sleeping in his bedroom. I was shocked that he said that on national TV.
CHUNG: Were you shocked as well, Uri?
GELLER: I know that Michael invites children to the ranch. Most of them are desperately sick.
The child that was interviewed, Gavin, had cancer. He's gone into remission. Now, Michael is Michael. Michael said, "I'm Peter Pan." Michael, in a way, has a heart of a child. For him, as Michael Jackson, he sees nothing wrong -- as a matter of fact, when they brought up the word bed
(CROSSTALK)
CHUNG: But he's 44 years old. And he's not Peter Pan, Uri.
GELLER: All right, I understand you. I understand you. But he said there was nothing sexual. The boy wanted to sleep in his bed. He said: Go ahead. I'll sleep in a sleeping bag.
Let me tell you this, Connie, that, if it takes to heal all the children in the world who have cancer, if they can go into remission visiting Michael Jackson's ranch, then I'll send them right now.
BOTEACH: I was at Neverland Valley Ranch when this boy Gavin first arrived with his family. There's no question Michael did a huge amount for them. He helped paid medical expenses. I think he even bought them an SUV.
But Michael and I discussed at the time boundaries. And Michael is the one that said to me that he would never cross certain boundaries, especially he knew that the world -- that there was a spotlight on him after the '93 allegations. That's why I'm so shocked by this. It's not that I believe he does anything wrong, but it's unacceptable and it's absolutely inappropriate. And Michael himself knows this.
CHUNG: To have kids sleeping in his bed.
BOTEACH: Absolutely. And I'll tell you something even more.
I was at the stage -- and I appealed to my close friend Uri Geller, who deeply cares for Michael, as do I. Those of us who were once in Michael's circle, or still are, enough with the defense. We've got to save this man from self-destructing, because Michael has so much to give to the world. He's an outstanding father. He's taught me to be a better father.
I am more involved with my children because of him. And I remain permanently indebted to him. But if we defend this, we may not have him that much longer with us, because I have never seen him hit this low a state. And this is not good.
And, Uri, you can't have it both ways. You can't say, on the one hand, the whole media is hounding him and then submit him to an interview over -- this interview should not have taken place. Michael does not need to be more famous. Michael needs credibility.
(CROSSTALK)
CHUNG: All right, I thank you gentlemen so much.
Rabbi, I thank you for being with us.
And, Uri Geller, just a quick 10 seconds to respond.
GELLER: That sick children will benefit from this documentary, because I have negotiated with a British documentary maker a very large and substantial payment for sick children from this show. Michael got no money, not one cent. But sick children will benefit from it.
CHUNG: All right, Uri Geller and Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, thank you so much for being with us.
BOTEACH: Thank you, Connie.
CHUNG: British television viewers saw the documentary first on Monday night. So, they have been talking about this documentary all week long.
CNN's Richard Quest joins us now from London.
Richard, I think it was shocking and it was disturbing.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was all of those things, Connie.
It was also -- and let's not mince words about this -- it was compulsive. Once you started watching, you felt you had to keep watching. You wanted to know what was next. And the producers of the program -- very cleverly -- back-loaded it, so the most salacious parts, the bits that Michael Jackson is now calling tawdry, travesty, salacious, deceitful, they were all at the back end of the program, Connie.
But, at the end of the day, people's views have polarized; 50 percent, give or take, say that their view of Michael Jackson hasn't changed. It's still unfavorable. And 50 percent say they are now more favorably disposed, because he came off as an innocent and nice, albeit naive person.
CHUNG: One newspaper there in London said that it was the longest suicide note in history. What do you think?
QUEST: That's the interesting question, because, clearly, Michael Jackson, in making this program, intended to rehabilitate his image. He intended try and put the best face forward.
Now, he hasn't done that. There are reports that say sales of his albums, his C.D.s, have gone up, quite dramatically. We're hearing numbers of 500, 600, 700 percent. But, Connie, that's 700 percent of very little. He wasn't selling that many to start with. He hasn't sold that many to start with.
CHUNG: Richard Quest, I thank you so much for being with us.
And still ahead: She takes the stand in defense of plus-sized women and much more.
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Next: award-winning actress Camryn Manheim on life, love, and being a single mom.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Many of you have come to know actress Camryn Manheim from her Emmy-award winning role as the passionate attorney Ellenor Frutt on "The Practice." Frutt's speciality is defending the seemingly undefendable, everything from serial killers and rapists, to trying to save a client from the death penalty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE PRACTICE") UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: We have no way of knowing this isn't an act. She certainly has motive.
CAMRYN MANHEIM, ACTRESS: She was examined by six different doctors, including two from the state. They all came to the same conclusion.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: If she's legally insane -- and I make no such concession -- her state of mind is self-inflicted here. How does that...
MANHEIM: That's not an issue before this court. This is a hearing to determine her mental state only. The consequence of that determination is up to another court.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: This, to me, is a perversity of our legal system.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: It may very well be, Mr. Parker. But this hearing, like Ms. Frutt says, is only about the petitioner's current mental health.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: You go, Ellenor.
Fighting the tough battles is something Manheim has in common with her character. As an actress, Manheim has had to battle Hollywood's prejudices against larger women. She's also active in a number of political and social causes.
And Camryn Manheim joins us now.
Thank you so much.
MANHEIM: I'm so happy to be here. Thank you, Connie.
CHUNG: Likewise. I'm so happy to have you.
May I tell you that you look beautiful?
MANHEIM: Absolutely. Can you say it again?
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: Yes. Your face is always beautiful. You are slimmer. May I say that?
MANHEIM: Thank you. Yes, I am. I worked hard at it.
CHUNG: Is that intentional?
MANHEIM: Yes, it's intentional and unintentional. I now have a 2-year-old. So, just by virtue running around after him, that helps. But I made a conscious effort, because I want to feel better and be able to do all the things with him that I know he wants to do. CHUNG: Sure.
But you have always been a champion for larger people: No excuses. Don't feel badly. This is who I am, that kind of thing.
MANHEIM: Exactly.
CHUNG: So, tell me what the process was as you decided you would lose some.
MANHEIM: Just for me, it kind of came very naturally, actually.
After I was pregnant, I came down with hypothyroid and all that, and it took a long time to figure it all out. It was health, really health related that made me decide to focus on it, because, prior to that, I have to tell you, I was the happiest fat person I've ever met and probably the happiest fat person in relationship to skinny people.
I had a great life. I didn't do it because I wanted a better quality of life, really. I did it for my health and for my son. And it's been lovely being able to shop at different stores I never knew before. But I did it for health reasons and for him.
CHUNG: May I ask you how you did it?
MANHEIM: Well, it was -- I can't -- I don't really have a plan. I've been playing a lot of racquetball.
In fact, I just had knee surgery 10 days ago because I exercised my way right to surgery. But I did. I exercised a lot. And I cut out a few things. But I didn't really follow a major plan. It worked for me. And once I got regulated with medication for thyroid, it really helped. So, it was just a combination of a bunch of stuff. I wanted a new beginning. I started exercising. And it just kind of happened.
I'm not out there advocating weight loss...
CHUNG: Right. Right.
MANHEIM: ... or telling people the kind of diet that I did, because it's important to me that people find their own way. And I don't want to be the spokesperson for any one way, you know what I mean?
CHUNG: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I get it.
Well, you have so many wonderful successes in our life. "The Practice" is just one of my favorite programs, I'll tell you. In fact, it has always been my favorite, even before other people discovered it. And I love it, the way the cast members call you Ellenor, instead of Ellenor, you know?
MANHEIM: Yes.
(LAUGHTER) CHUNG: It's just wonderful. And you have this beautiful baby who's 2 years old now.
MANHEIM: Yes. He's the love of my life, really.
CHUNG: I understand.
MANHEIM: Yes. It's just -- you know, it's funny.
When I was younger and in my poetic mind, and I'd fall in love with somebody, I'd write in my journal, "Oh, I'd give up my place in heaven for you, I love you so much."
(LAUGHTER)
MANHEIM: That was crap. I would never give up my place in heaven for anybody, except for my son.
CHUNG: Yes.
MANHEIM: And I know what it feels like now to just love something more than you could ever imagine, and maybe more than yourself.
CHUNG: Yes. That's the best part, I think.
MANHEIM: And that's how I feel about it.
It's amazing. And the other day, he's so funny. He choked a little bit on something. He went, "Wrong pipe."
(LAUGHTER)
MANHEIM: And I literally almost died laughing, because I must have said that to him one day. "Did that go down the wrong pipe?"
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: OK, is it time for another one?
(LAUGHTER)
MANHEIM: Honestly, I sure would like to do that. And it starts with the impetus, because I want to do it for him, because I want him to have a sibling. But I'm having so much fun, I can't imagine another one not being double fun.
CHUNG: OK, let's go for it then.
MANHEIM: Why not?
CHUNG: I'm so happy to meet you. "The Practice" is rolling forward on Monday nights.
MANHEIM: Yes, we've moved to Monday night at 9:00. We're still on ABC, same Bat channel. And we are doing the same programs. We've got the same cast that was started seven years ago. And David Kelley has written almost all the episodes this year. And it's a spectacular season.
CHUNG: I believe it.
MANHEIM: And so, we just need our loyal fans to come on over and check out Monday.
CHUNG: We follow you anywhere you go.
MANHEIM: Good.
CHUNG: All right, thank you so much for being with us.
MANHEIM: Absolutely. It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
CHUNG: You'll have to come again.
MANHEIM: Anytime. You have a nice studio.
CHUNG: Hey, thanks.
MANHEIM: Good-looking guys behind the camera, too.
CHUNG: I think so. Oh, we're very lucky.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: All right.
New York Senator and former first lady Hillary Clinton gets some encouraging news about a possible run for the White House, as you will see in tonight's "Snapshot."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG (voice-over): A new poll puts Hillary Clinton at the top of the Democratic heap. The Quinnipiac University poll says 42 percent of Democrats polled would vote for her if she ran for president in 2004. But the poll shows she would not win in a race against President Bush.
Progesterone may help prevent premature births. A recent study shows the hormone cut the chances of early delivery by 34 percent in high-risk women.
It's not even out yet, but the next "Harry Potter" book has already set a record. At $29.95, it's the most expensive new children's book ever.
Rocker Courtney Love ran into Virgin Atlantic boss Richard Branson at a party and apologized for the in-flight fit that caused her to be detained at Heathrow Airport earlier this week. Now Branson says she's welcome aboard anytime.
And it's the end of one NBA era and the beginning of another this weekend. At the All-Star Game in Atlanta, Michael Jordan will be playing in his last All-Star Game. It will be the first for the Houston Rockets rookie sensation, 7 foot, 5 inch Yao Ming from China.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: our "Person of the Day." It's like having granddad on duty -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: A 64-year-old Connecticut doctor who's putting his practice on hold to answer Uncle Sam's call is our "Person of the Day."
At an age when he could be retired or at least preparing for it, Dr. Jacob Slepian (ph) reports for military duty in Seattle on Monday. He expects he'll be gone for three months to a year. An Army Reservist since he was 45, Slepian will join thousands of other soldiers, most of them young enough to be his kid, in either Kuwait or on a hospital ship.
And this isn't the first time the ear-nose-and-throat specialists had to give up office visits for military house calls. During the Gulf War, he was called up, serving at a Maryland military base treating base personnel and folding laundry. For showing that he is not too old to serve his country, Dr. Jacob Slepian is our "Person of the Day."
And on Monday, Laci Peterson's due date, we'll take an in-depth look at the mystery surrounding the Modesto, California, woman who was last seen the day before Christmas.
And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": Christian conservative leader James Dobson.
Thank you so much for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night, have a great weekend, and we'll see you on Monday.
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Witness Stand; Interview With Uri Geller>
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