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CNN Saturday Morning News
Interview With Wendy Murphy
Aired February 22, 2003 - 09:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And in Rhode Island, lots of finger pointing, as you might imagine. The lead singer of the rock band Great White said they had permission from the nightclub to use fireworks. The owner of the Station concert club say that is not true.
For some perspective on the potential legal fallout ahead, we are joined now by Wendy Murphy. She's a former prosecutor and a visiting scholar at Harvard Law School.
Good morning to you, Wendy. Thanks for being here.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Good morning.
COLLINS: Obviously a lot of questions. I think the first one is, you know, who's at fault? Based on what you know, do you see any lawsuits coming from this? Or what will happen next legally?
MURPHY: Oh, I don't think there's any question that not only will there be lawsuits, there will be extremely expensive lawsuits. I mean, the loss of life and the injuries here, I'd put this at least around $100 million in terms of the value of the case, based on the little I know thus far. And it remains to be seen whether there's enough insurance to cover the losses in this case.
But in terms of responsibility, Heidi, I think there's probably more than enough responsibility to go around, and the two primary defendants will be the club owners and the band itself. But I think the most important question is, who's responsible up front? Who should have done something to -- and who did something wrong to set in motion all of the harm that followed?
And the answer to that question, I think, is the band. Because the band is the one that chose to use pyrotechnics, which means they are responsible, by law, to request a permit. It was their failure to obtain a permit that prohibited the fire officials from becoming aware of this, that, in fact, prohibited all the safety measures from kicking in.
I mean, they needed to have not only a certified fireworks operator, if you will, present at the scene, but a permit itself so that the fire department would have been there, so they could have had all the things, fire extinguishers and officials around, in the event of a disaster like this.
And all the reports thus far have said even if they had requested a permit, it would have been denied. There's no question in my mind the band feels the pressure, because they're trying to say, Well, the club owner gave us permission.
But you know what, Heidi? You cannot get permission to use fireworks in a building from a club owner. The club owner is not the fire marshal. So that's not a defense that's going to save the day for the band.
That's not to say the club owner doesn't have a responsibility. If they knew that pyrotechnics were being used, that's going to absolutely expose them to liability. And even if they didn't know, there will be important questions asked about the structure of the building, whether they had enough safety measures in place, the number of people who were present, was it over the code limit?
I mean, there is an awful lot of liability exposure here for...
COLLINS: That's right.
MURPHY: ... both of them.
COLLINS: That's right, it sounds a lot of he said-she said is going to be going on, and probably going to be difficult to prove without some evidence.
I also want to ask you about something that the governor said just a little while ago in a news conference, Governor Donald Carcieri. He said that he now wants to implement sort of a policy that says that he will go -- or the fire chiefs, in fact, will go all across the state to identify high-risk establishments. Do you think this will help? And who will be responsible for that?
MURPHY: It's a great idea, Heidi. There's no question that this was a high-risk establishment, as that term is now being used. And I think it will help, because at least the fire marshal's office will be on notice and the building owners will be on notice that they have firetraps.
And probably, I would expect the law to change dramatically and quickly in Rhode Island, so that not only will those buildings be identified, but specific new laws will be put in place requiring those building owners to put in, for example, sprinkler systems.
And we know that the building owner here has said that sprinklers weren't required. The club owners have said sprinklers weren't required because of the age of the building. Well, so what? Who cares if they're not exactly required?
COLLINS: Wendy, in fact, we've also heard that it was because of the size of the building. And I think that's something to talk about quickly. Just because it's a smaller building, does that mean you shouldn't have sprinklers? Maybe that's something that they'll review as well.
MURPHY: Well, they're -- they sure will. And again, there may be technical loopholes around the law around sprinkler usage, but that is not an excuse to let all these people be at such high risk. You know when fires happen or when emergencies erupt in buildings where there are large numbers of people gathered, they're going to panic, they're going to trample each other.
So there's really no excuse not to take every possible step...
COLLINS: Right.
MURPHY: ... spend every last dollar to save lives. There's really no excuse not to do it.
COLLINS: Right. And obviously, we'll be hearing a lot more about this in the days ahead. Former prosecutor Wendy Murphy, we do appreciate your insights this morning.
MURPHY: Thank you, Heidi.
COLLINS: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 22, 2003 - 09:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And in Rhode Island, lots of finger pointing, as you might imagine. The lead singer of the rock band Great White said they had permission from the nightclub to use fireworks. The owner of the Station concert club say that is not true.
For some perspective on the potential legal fallout ahead, we are joined now by Wendy Murphy. She's a former prosecutor and a visiting scholar at Harvard Law School.
Good morning to you, Wendy. Thanks for being here.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Good morning.
COLLINS: Obviously a lot of questions. I think the first one is, you know, who's at fault? Based on what you know, do you see any lawsuits coming from this? Or what will happen next legally?
MURPHY: Oh, I don't think there's any question that not only will there be lawsuits, there will be extremely expensive lawsuits. I mean, the loss of life and the injuries here, I'd put this at least around $100 million in terms of the value of the case, based on the little I know thus far. And it remains to be seen whether there's enough insurance to cover the losses in this case.
But in terms of responsibility, Heidi, I think there's probably more than enough responsibility to go around, and the two primary defendants will be the club owners and the band itself. But I think the most important question is, who's responsible up front? Who should have done something to -- and who did something wrong to set in motion all of the harm that followed?
And the answer to that question, I think, is the band. Because the band is the one that chose to use pyrotechnics, which means they are responsible, by law, to request a permit. It was their failure to obtain a permit that prohibited the fire officials from becoming aware of this, that, in fact, prohibited all the safety measures from kicking in.
I mean, they needed to have not only a certified fireworks operator, if you will, present at the scene, but a permit itself so that the fire department would have been there, so they could have had all the things, fire extinguishers and officials around, in the event of a disaster like this.
And all the reports thus far have said even if they had requested a permit, it would have been denied. There's no question in my mind the band feels the pressure, because they're trying to say, Well, the club owner gave us permission.
But you know what, Heidi? You cannot get permission to use fireworks in a building from a club owner. The club owner is not the fire marshal. So that's not a defense that's going to save the day for the band.
That's not to say the club owner doesn't have a responsibility. If they knew that pyrotechnics were being used, that's going to absolutely expose them to liability. And even if they didn't know, there will be important questions asked about the structure of the building, whether they had enough safety measures in place, the number of people who were present, was it over the code limit?
I mean, there is an awful lot of liability exposure here for...
COLLINS: That's right.
MURPHY: ... both of them.
COLLINS: That's right, it sounds a lot of he said-she said is going to be going on, and probably going to be difficult to prove without some evidence.
I also want to ask you about something that the governor said just a little while ago in a news conference, Governor Donald Carcieri. He said that he now wants to implement sort of a policy that says that he will go -- or the fire chiefs, in fact, will go all across the state to identify high-risk establishments. Do you think this will help? And who will be responsible for that?
MURPHY: It's a great idea, Heidi. There's no question that this was a high-risk establishment, as that term is now being used. And I think it will help, because at least the fire marshal's office will be on notice and the building owners will be on notice that they have firetraps.
And probably, I would expect the law to change dramatically and quickly in Rhode Island, so that not only will those buildings be identified, but specific new laws will be put in place requiring those building owners to put in, for example, sprinkler systems.
And we know that the building owner here has said that sprinklers weren't required. The club owners have said sprinklers weren't required because of the age of the building. Well, so what? Who cares if they're not exactly required?
COLLINS: Wendy, in fact, we've also heard that it was because of the size of the building. And I think that's something to talk about quickly. Just because it's a smaller building, does that mean you shouldn't have sprinklers? Maybe that's something that they'll review as well.
MURPHY: Well, they're -- they sure will. And again, there may be technical loopholes around the law around sprinkler usage, but that is not an excuse to let all these people be at such high risk. You know when fires happen or when emergencies erupt in buildings where there are large numbers of people gathered, they're going to panic, they're going to trample each other.
So there's really no excuse not to take every possible step...
COLLINS: Right.
MURPHY: ... spend every last dollar to save lives. There's really no excuse not to do it.
COLLINS: Right. And obviously, we'll be hearing a lot more about this in the days ahead. Former prosecutor Wendy Murphy, we do appreciate your insights this morning.
MURPHY: Thank you, Heidi.
COLLINS: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
