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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
Saddam Refuses to Comply With U.N. Demands to Destroy Missiles; Rhode Island Club Fire Leaves Question of Who to Blame
Aired February 24, 2003 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung. Tonight, tough words from Saddam Hussein. He indicates he won't comply with U.N. demands that he destroy his missiles.
ANNOUNCER: A defiant Saddam Hussein challenges President Bush to a debate. Are the U.S. and Iraq one step closer to war?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One way or another, Saddam Hussein, for the sake of peace and for the security of the American people, will be disarmed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Questions rise from the ashes of the deadly nightclub fire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFREY DERDERIAN, NIGHTCLUB CO-OWNER: This tragedy has claimed the lives of our friends.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would hope that Mr. Derderian is as cooperative with the law enforcement agencies involved in this investigation as he has been with the press.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Ninety-seven dead. Over 100 injured. Who is to blame?
Two heart-lung transplants couldn't save her live. Jesica's family and her doctors search for answers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's many institutions, many organizations and many steps, and each step there is an individual. And individuals can make mistakes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, the family asks, did the doctors cause Jesica's death?
Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt are in it. So are Renee Zellweger and Sandra Bullock. Millions of Americans are with them in The Zone. The man behind the popular diet, Dr. Barry Sears, shares his secrets for fighting the battle of the bulge. Are you ready for the diet challenge?
And our persons of the day. A surprise reunion.
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening. Is war with Iraq a step closer tonight? In Baghdad, Saddam Hussein appeared to throw down the gauntlet today. In an interview with CBS News anchor Dan Rather, the Iraqi leader denied his Al Samoud missiles violate U.N. mandates and he indicated he would resist demands that he destroy them. Chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix has told Iraq it has until the end of the week to begin destroying those missiles.
Tonight, CBS News quoted Saddam Hussein as saying, "Iraq is allowed to prepare proper missiles, and we are committed to that." And CBS News reported Saddam Hussein added, quote, "we do not have missiles that go beyond the prescribed range." CBS News says the Iraqi leader's strongly indicated Iraq would resist efforts to begin the destruction of the missiles.
Saddam Hussein also challenged President Bush to a live broadcast debate on the war.
Meanwhile, at the U.N., a new U.S.-backed resolution was submitted, asking that the U.N. declare Iraq has missed its last chance to disarm. The resolution would also declare Iraq in violation of past U.N. resolutions and warn of, quote, "serious consequences if Iraq continues to pursue weapons of mass destruction."
The French, meanwhile, circulated a competing draft resolution seeking more time for the inspections.
Also today, the U.S. and Turkey moved closer to an agreement that would permit U.S. troops onto Turkish soil in the event of war with Iraq. We have reaction to all these late developments from CNN senior White House correspondent John King and from CNN senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth.
John King, Saddam Hussein is indicating that he will not destroy those missiles in question. Does this give the Bush administration the ammunition it needs to get those recalcitrant countries in line?
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Connie, the White House certainly thinks so. The U.S. introduced that new resolution today, as you noted, but it does not want a vote until two weeks from tonight, somewhere on or around March 10. Between now and then, Hans Blix will report back to the council. The White House believes that if Dr. Blix reports back that he directly told the Iraqi government to destroy those missiles and that Saddam Hussein said no, that it will be very difficult for the French, the Chinese, the Russians and others not to vote for the new U.S. resolution if Saddam Hussein has directly defied a demand of the inspectors.
CHUNG: Richard Roth, what is your judgment? How will France and Russia and Germany and China react?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, they want more time for the inspectors. A memorandum introduced by those countries today said it will be a matter of months before there is any test for Iraq. They think the inspectors are getting cooperation for Baghdad and they propose a series of timelines way beyond the U.S. deadline.
CHUNG: John King, is this considered critical? In other words, this revelation from President Saddam Hussein, that he will not destroy these missiles?
KING: Well, the U.S. says it is more cumulative evidence for its case. The United States says not only it is now apparent or at least evident that Saddam Hussein will not destroy these missiles, but the United States would argue that Saddam Hussein and his government have not produced any evidence about what happened to known stockpiles of mustard gas, sarin gas, VX, chemical and biological weapons. The White House says this is more proof that Saddam Hussein from day one has had no intention of complying and that it's now up to those countries on the Security Council Richard just noted to prove they meant it when they passed Resolution 1441. That will be the debate for the next two weeks.
CHUNG: And John, what about this challenge on Saddam Hussein's part to debate President Bush? Are they taking it seriously there at the White House?
KING: No, Connie. Behind the scenes they're laughing about it here. They view it as a public relations gimmick by the Iraqi leader. One senior official, the communications director, Dan Bartlett, telling me there is no debating what Saddam Hussein is required to do. Some officials also joking that the last time Saddam Hussein challenged George W. Bush, it was to a dual, now to a debate. Here at the White House, they say they want to focus on what Iraq is doing, not anything the Iraqi leader is saying.
CHUNG: All right, Richard Roth, tell us more about the U.N. resolution that was proposed by the United States and Britain today. Because the U.S. and Britain both know that they do not have the votes in the U.N. Security Council.
ROTH: Well, the resolution, it is a simplified version of the one unanimously passed November 8. It basically says -- the main paragraph -- main line says Iraq has failed to live up to its disarmament challenge under Security Council resolutions, final opportunity missed by Iraq. The trouble is, are they going to get the nine votes without any vetoes? That's what U.S. diplomats have fanned out around the globe to achieve, and the hard bargaining will begin here. France here at the United Nations today, again saying they're not ready for this resolution. They don't want it. However, the United States condemns the French, Russian and German proposal saying it is more process than substance. Still, a big divide here.
CHUNG: John King, we have all known that war appears to be imminent. But do the new developments that we've just heard tonight affect the timetable?
KING: Well, certainly we have had a push back, if you will, of the timetable for a decision, perhaps by a week or two, in part because of the military buildup. You noted Turkey's decision to finally let those U.S. troops come ashore. The U.S. is now comfortable with making this decision in the middle of March. It had hoped to make the decision this week, in fact, if we had asked this question three or four weeks ago.
As to whether the developments change anything, the Bush administration believed it had to go back to the Council one more time, not so much for President Bush's position, but because Prime Minister Tony Blair of Great Britain, Prime Minister Berlusconi of Italy, Prime Minister Aznar of Spain all are supporting President Bush, all are under fierce political criticism back home. They needed at least an attempt to get a second resolution. The White House wants the vote the week of March 10. Everybody here believes the president will make the key decisions as to whether to go to war within days of that, in that second full week of March. And if you ask people to place bets here at the White House, they do think, Connie, that war is inevitable.
CHUNG: All right, John King, thank you, and Richard Roth as well.
Also tonight, as investigators work to identify the last of 97 dead from Thursday's fire at a Rhode Island nightclub, they also said they're not getting the full answers they want from the nightclub's owners. And officials ordered a statewide moratorium on pyrotechnics like the ones that started the deadly blaze at the Station club. This as officials around the country cracked down on safety violations in their states to prevent similar fires or a stampede like the one that killed 21 people in Chicago last week.
In a moment, we're going to meet some of the survivors and the state's top lawmen. But first, CNN national correspondent Bob Franken reports on the aftermath.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We ask you tonight to bless the state of Rhode Island, Lord.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These memorial services were an opportunity to formally mourn a tragedy that is particularly hard to take here. In a state that is so tiny, the nation's smallest, that residents consider Rhode Island one community, where everyone seems to know everyone else.
This remarkable closeness means that the people of Rhode Island take this tragedy very personally, including the man who has visibly taken charge. GOV. DON CARCIERI, RHODE ISLAND: We have seen our community unite like never before.
FRANKEN: The emotions boiled together -- intense grief, helplessness, anger, a desire for accountability. Officials refuse to confirm or deny reports that they got a warrant to search the home of a co-owner of the club. But neighbors say they saw police at the house. Investigators are trying to resolve the dispute over blame.
PATRICK LYNCH, RHODE ISLAND ATTORNEY GENERAL: I have a responsibility to look at facts, look at evidence.
DERDERIAN: No permission was ever requested by the band or any of its agents to use pyrotechnics at the Station and no permission was ever given.
ED MCPHERSON, BAND'S ATTORNEY: Their position is that we never asked them, we never told them, they knew nothing about this. And they just -- they're wrong.
FRANKEN (on camera): The information is starting to accumulate. Some of it also contradictory. Other bands coming forward to say they, too, employed pyrotechnics here.
At the same time, other clubs are saying that Great White had also failed to inform them they would be using the indoor fireworks.
(voice-over): Because Rhode Island is still a uniquely tight knit state, the people are suffering this tragedy together.
Bob Franken, CNN, West Warwick, Rhode Island.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Joining us now, Rena Gershelis, a cocktail waitress at The Station and her fiance Joe Barber, who was also there that night.
Thank you both for being with us and I'm so sorry, because I know both of you lost friends in this horrible fire.
Rena, can you tell me where you were at the time the fire started and how you got out?
RENA GERSHELIS, COCKTAIL WAITRESS: I was next to the back door where the kitchen area was. And at first I didn't think that it was -- I thought the fire -- the whole thing was part of the show. And then one of my friends that worked there said, I don't think this is part of the show, you know? She says I'm out of here. We should leave.
And then I went towards the back -- I went towards the back of the door and this is when it was still all at the stage and I just left like that. I just -- you know, I got out like that.
CHUNG: Did your friend leave, too?
GERSHELIS: I thought she did, but she didn't.
CHUNG: I know, She was running -- she went back to get her coat, is that right?
GERSEHLIS: I would think -- yes, because she went towards the office and that's where we keep our coats and that's what I think she most likely did. And I just -- I don't know why she didn't get out.
CHUNG: Joe Barber, you were at the bar, I believe, when the fire started. Did you see anything or did you only hear something?
JOE BARBER, CLUB SURVIVOR: I heard the pyrotechnics go off. Shortly after that there was a big rush of people towards the door. People started falling. We started to pick them up, escort them towards the side door exit, tried to keep calm, tried to keep cool. We got out the side door, me and several other people went around the front of the building, started smashing the windows out and helping people out that way. Then when nobody else came to the window, we went up to the door and that was the last I saw of anybody.
CHUNG: You were -- you actually injured your hands when you were trying to pull these people out. How difficult was it to help people get out?
BARBER: It was very difficult. The people were stacked on top of each other. They were very hard to pull apart. Fear, panic, I mean, it was just a big mess.
CHUNG: Joe, are your hands going to be OK?
BARBER: Yes, they'll be all right. They're slightly burned. Second, third degree burns on the fingers, but they'll be all right.
CHUNG: Rena, you work there and I was wondering if you had ever seen pyrotechnics used at the club before.
GERSHELIS: No I haven't. I haven't, no.
CHUNG: So was it -- was it a surprise when you learned that it had to do with pyrotechnics?
BARBER: Yes.
GERSHELIS: Yes, yes.
CHUNG: The situation outside, how would you describe it?
GERSHELIS: I was just -- the worst, the worst I've ever seen in my life, just people running out, people on fire, people screaming. It was just really bad.
CHUNG: Was there any way you could help anyone?
GERSHELIS: When I got out, I just -- at first I just stood there in front of the building, I just couldn't believe that anything was -- that it was real. I thought it was like a movie. I was just in total shock and then I was waiting for my fiance -- I had a feeling and I knew he was going to come out of that -- out of there and he did.
CHUNG: It must have been just a horrible, horrible experience. Have you been having nightmares about this?
GERSHELIS: Yes.
BARBER: We haven't been sleeping very well, I can tell you that.
GERSHELIS: Yes.
CHUNG: Did you lose your other friends who had been with you at the bar?
BARBER: No. Fortunately for all the friends that were with me at the bar, we all made it out the same door. Those of my friends that went up towards the front of the stage to watch the show did not make it out.
CHUNG: All right.
Rena and Joe, thank you, both, for being with us.
Rhode Island's governor today said that 80 people remain hospitalized as a result of the fire. Many of them are in critical condition suffering from burns and smoke inhalation. Most of the victim were taken to Rhode Island Hospital, where Dr. William Cioffi is chief of surgery.
Dr. Cioffi, thank you for coming back and joining us again.
DR. WILLIAM CIOFFI, RHODE ISLAND HOSPITAL: You're welcome.
CHUNG: Dr. Cioffi, I know you have 33 patients and many of them are in the intensive care unit. It must look like a war zone to you. How are your patients?
CIOFFI: Our patients are doing well. We have 23 patients still in the intensive care unit, of which 21 of them are on ventilators. But we've been quite pleased by the progress that each of them has made over the last three days.
CHUNG: And what is their -- what are the life threatening injuries that they're suffering from?
CIOFFI: Of the 33 patients we have, they all have varying degrees of burns ranging from 5 to over 50 percent of their body. And of those, many of them still have severe smoke inhalation injury.
CHUNG: Now, I understand that some of them are waking up. Are they aware of their surroundings and have they told anyone about what happened?
CIOFFI: Twelve of our patients are not on ventilation support and they're awake and alert and are starting to talk about what happened, both with the nurses caring for them, their family members, our psychologists and other support people. CHUNG: And what have they told you and what have they told the others?
CIOFFI: Well, they've told us about the environment in the bar and trying to escape and the difficulties in it and even some of them aren't really quite sure how they got out.
CHUNG: Dr. Cioffi, what are the challenges your patients face?
CIOFFI: Connie, basically over the next months our patients are go going to face two challenges. First those had their physical injuries, their burn injuries, are going to require physical therapy and rehabilitation and possibly reconstructive surgery.
The other major challenge is going to be the psychological impact of this trauma. Indeed, some of our patients already are telling us they can't sleep, they have nightmares. And that may be more long lasting than some of the physical impairment that they have from their injuries.
CHUNG: You told us on Friday that, of course, you have never seen anything of this magnitude. How are you and your staff holding up?
CIOFFI: I think our staff is holding up quite well.
We've begun sort of debriefing for our staff to help them deal with this, along with our department of psychiatry and social services because we have a long road ahead of us and we have to avoid burnout of our staff. So that's a very important process.
CHUNG: Absolutely. Well, God bless you and thank you, Dr. Cioffi for being with us.
CIOFFI: You're so welcome.
CHUNG: As we mentioned, this weekend saw two conflicting portraits emerge: One a club owner distraught and denying culpability.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DERDERIAN: This tragedy claimed the lives of our friends. Sorry. People who are husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters. We will somehow live with this grief, like so many other people, for the rest of our lives. As we said in the statement released yesterday, at no time did my brother or I have any knowledge that pyrotechnics were going to be used by the band Great White.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Some musicians have portrayed the club as unusually strict about enforcing the rules. But others have come forward suggesting the club had a very different approach to safety.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) DAVID VACCARO, LOVIN KRY BAND MEMBER: Nobody ever cared. We would go in say, We're doing pyro or would walk through the door and, you know, the guys at the door would be like, pyro tonight? You know, with their thumbs up in the air and excited about it.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CHUNG: So which is it? Rhode Island's top law enforcement official, Attorney General Patrick Lynch, indicated today that the club owners are not cooperating with investigators.
I spoke with Rhode Island Attorney General Patrick Lynch earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Attorney General Lynch, you've indicated that band members have been cooperating and answering questions of law enforcement. Have the club owners begun to cooperate as much as the band members have?
LYNCH: I don't draw a comparative and will not draw a comparative analysis of witnesses who were there on that evening. I can only tell you that the band members have responded to questions we've asked.
I am quite content they'll continue to do that and satisfied with their -- with not the text, necessarily, but the fact they would answer questions in return to do it in a forum as we see fit, whether its an investigation in its continuance or in a court of law.
The Derderians have not responded to questions, but chose to give comment through the press. I have said and continue to say that I am hopeful that they choose to answer questions that I believe they can respond to assist all of us to find some answers as to what happened, what caused this horror that is now ripped apart this state.
CHUNG: Now, other bands have said that pyrotechnics were used before at this same club. David Vacarro, front man for Lovin' Kry said -- and I quote -- "We've actually had firemen standing in the club while we were doing pyro and never said a word. Nothing."
Do you believe the fire safety laws are adequate in the state and do you believe that they were being enforced?
LYNCH: Let me tell you that those are the very things we're examining and the very reason we don't necessarily have a short list.
We're looking at all of the reasons and all of the factors to determine what happened that evening and to determine whether or not a crime has occurred. And so those are some of the things that illustrate that it's not simply an issue of credibility between club owners and band members, but actual, full examination of all evidence before us including the pyrotechnics, the permitting, the contractual agreements, everything leading up to it, all comes in to our consideration in an investigation to lead us to make our determination whether or not a crime has occurred.
CHUNG: In Rhode Island, as I understand it, you will actually be prosecuting the case as well. Is it possible that you might seek murder charges against not only the band, but against the club owners?
LYNCH: Well, again, my responsibility is to look at the facts and evidence and apply the law. It is possible that any law on the books will be used because my responsibility...
CHUNG: Including murder as a possibility?
LYNCH: Murder is in the Rhode Island general laws as are innumerable other counts. So whatever applies to these facts, if it is applicable, certainly I will follow through. That is my responsibility as the attorney general to the people of this state.
CHUNG: Have you been able to determine, and I know you're examining this, whether the insulation or the soundproofing was used legally by the club?
LYNCH: That, again is something that we're looking at and may ultimately lead to our determination whether we believe someone will be criminally liable.
CHUNG: Can you tell us if the band had a permit to use pyrotechnics?
LYNCH: Again, there have been claims from both sides and I cannot comment any further than that.
CHUNG: All right. Attorney General Lynch, I thank you so much for being with us.
LYNCH: Thank you very much, Connie.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Right now the U.S. secretary of state on the road, coping with two hot burner issues. That tops tonight's "Look at the World in 60."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG (voice-over): Secretary of State Colin Powell was in Beijing to persuade China to back the U.S. position on disarming Iraq. North Korea's nuclear weapons program was also discussed. China is urging the U.S. to hold direct talks with North Korea.
On his last day in office, South Korean president Kim Dae-jung also urged talks between the U.S. and North Korea. Secretary Powell will attend Tuesday's inauguration of president-elect Roh Moo-hyun.
Recovery efforts are under way in Northwestern China after a powerful earthquake killed at least 257 people. Aftershocks have forced many to remain outdoors in freezing temperatures. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has secured a slim majority in the Israeli Parliament by bringing in a centrist party. This will allow Sharon to form a new coalition government.
A Serbian ultra nationalist has surrendered to the War Crimes Tribunal at the Hague. The ally of Former President Slobodan Milosevic denies charges his troops committed atrocities during the wars in Bosnia and Croatia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Coming up, some celebrities can't live without it. And millions of ordinary Americans are right in there with them in the zone. Take the diet challenge when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: The family of Jesica Santillan, the double transplant recipient who died Saturday, wants to know exactly why she died which could be determined as a result of today's autopsy. The hospital and her surgeon already accepted responsibility for her first heart-lung transplant which failed because the donor organs were the wrong blood type.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES JAGGERS, MD, PEDIATRIC CARDIAC SURGEON, DUKE UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: As Jesica's surgeon, I take responsibility for those errors and I take responsibility for the entire team. After the first transplant, I spoke to Jesica's family and told them of this error, but then I did everything possible to save Jesica's life including another heart and lung transplant. I know that everybody at Duke mourns the loss of Jesica.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Now, though, the 17-year-old's family says Jesica was removed from life support without their approval and before they could get a second opinion, which they requested. Tomorrow the girl who had three hearts during her short life will be remembered as public and private memorials.
Duke University Hospital has not returned our calls today, but the Santillan Family attorney, Kurt Dixon joins us now from Raleigh, North Carolina. Thank you, Mr. Dixon, for being with us.
KURT DIXON, SANTILLAN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Thank you, Connie.
CHUNG: I just want to get this straight. Is it true that the family had not given its consent to have Jesica removed from life support?
DIXON: Yes. According to the family, that is exactly what happened. They requested that Jesica remain on life support and they were repeatedly told that Duke would not do that because Jesica was according to Duke clinically brain dead and therefore they could remove the life support.
CHUNG: Did the family want to keep her on life support indefinitely?
DIXON: No, that was never mentioned. It was mentioned they did want a second opinion. That certainly they would want to have her on life support until that was accomplished but no time period was discussed.
CHUNG: Why wasn't a second opinion obtained for the family?
DIXON: The family, actually, learned that Duke would allow a request in a Saturday morning meeting at around, say, 9:00 a.m. They did not know that there was any time limit on that ability to get a second opinion. Duke did not inform them that if they wanted it, it has been to be within a certain time.
And when they went back to meet with Duke at 2:30 after the second brain wave test was done, Duke told them that the second test showed no brain activity, therefore they were declaring Jesica legally dead and they would remove the life support systems within a couple of hours. And that's what happened around 5:00 p.m.
CHUNG: Now, is the family going to file a lawsuit not only in this issue that we just discussed, but, of course, the wrong heart- lung that was implanted in the girl in the beginning?
DIXON: Well, they have hired my firm to investigate the case and that's what we've begun to do. It is going to take some time to get all the medical records together, to get back the autopsy results. And then we are in the process of assembling the best medical team we can to take a look at these records.
And once that is done, then we'll sit down and talk to the family, show them what the investigation has revealed, discuss what a lawsuit would entail and then let them make that decision.
CHUNG: Do you know if the family signed any consent forms that would have relieved the hospital or the doctors of responsibility?
DIXON: I don't believe in North Carolina you can relieve anyone from the responsibility for a negligent act. So at present, though, I don't know of any form the family signed because we have not yet received the medical records. I've been assured we will get at least some of the medical records tomorrow.
CHUNG: All right, Kurt Dixon, I thank you so much.
DIXON: Thank you, Connie.
CHUNG: And still ahead: He's going on trial today, accused of killing a man for the color of his skin more than three decades ago.
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Next: Which weight loss plan is right for you? The creator of The Zone, Dr. Barry Sears, takes the diet challenge.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: This week, we start a new series focusing on a growing problem in America. Many Americans seem obsessed with it. I'm talking about the waistline.
Our series "The Diet Challenge" will profile five different diets. And tonight, we start with one of the most popular, practiced by stars including Jennifer Aniston, Brad Pitt, Sandra Bullock, and Renee Zellweger. But it is also one of the most controversial.
So, earlier, I spoke with biochemist Barry Sears about why he thinks people should eat six times a day and how his diet, The Zone, meets "The Diet Challenge."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Barry Sears, thank you so much for being with us.
BARRY SEARS, CREATOR, THE ZONE: Thank you.
CHUNG: I've heard so much about The Zone. So, first off, let's look at an average day, all right?
SEARS: Actually, this would be an average day for the average American female.
She might start the morning off with a six egg white omelet that we added about two tablespoons of olive oil to, some slow-cooked oatmeal, and about a cup of strawberries.
CHUNG: That's good. It seems like a lot.
SEARS: It is a lot. Now, for lunch, typically, let's say my grilled chicken Caesar salad. Thought we needed a little extra carbohydrate, so we add some oranges there.
CHUNG: And how about dressing?
SEARS: Dressing: olive oil and balsamic vinegar.
CHUNG: And that's fine?
SEARS: That's excellent.
CHUNG: OK.
SEARS: And for a late-afternoon snack, about 5:00, some grapes and a piece of string cheese.
CHUNG: Just one string cheese?
SEARS: Just one string cheese. (LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: OK.
SEARS: And for dinner, about five ounces of grilled salmon, some fresh vegetables and, again, mixed berries for dessert, and before you go to bed, a glass of wine and a piece of cheese.
CHUNG: Really? Before I go to bed, I'm allowed to have that?
SEARS: You have to.
CHUNG: Why?
SEARS: Well, because you're going into an eight-hour cycle.
What you're trying to do is maintain equal amounts of food coming in throughout the time period so that, at no point, are you ever hungry. And that's really the key to The Zone diet. It's a diet that basically is designed to make sure that you're not hungry. And that's a way of cutting calories.
CHUNG: So that's the reason for not three meals, but six meals?
SEARS: Exactly.
CHUNG: What can I not eat on your diet?
SEARS: Well, the fact is, you can eat everything, even pasta and bread. But use them in moderation. Treat them like pieces of seven- layer cake. You won't eat an entire seven-layer cake. You might eat a small piece. Treat grains and starches exactly the same way.
CHUNG: What is the theory behind it?
SEARS: The theory is keeping the hormone insulin within a zone that is not too high, but not too low.
CHUNG: What happens if it is too high or too low?
SEARS: Three things will happen if it is too high.
One, excess insulin make you fat and keeps you fat. The second, excess insulin accelerates heart disease, the No. 1 killer of males and females in this country. And, three, excess insulin basically now shortens your lifespan. On the other hand, if insulin levels are too low, as they can be on a high-protein diet, then you don't have enough insulin to drive nutrients into your cells and your cells literally starve to death.
CHUNG: Oh, so you're hungry all the time.
SEARS: Exactly.
CHUNG: All right, now, I know the key to your diet, two things, balance and portion. Is that correct? SEARS: That is.
CHUNG: All right. Why?
SEARS: Well, because, again, it is like driving a car. You can't drive a car all on gas or you can't drive it all on air. You need some combination.
And, likewise, we're looking at protein and carbohydrate, getting the right combination to get the right hormonal mileage from one meal to the next.
CHUNG: All right, we have some questions from viewers. Our first question has to do with why six meals a day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, how is the average person supposed to eat six times a day if they have to work?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: That is so true. That is so true.
(LAUGHTER)
SEARS: I agree 100 percent. But the key aspect is why you want to do six meals a day is like an I.V. drip: small amounts of nutrients coming in, in the body throughout the day, so at no point are you ever raising the insulin levels too high, which will cause now increased hunger.
CHUNG: OK, but you didn't answer the question. How do you do it? I don't have time.
SEARS: Well, actually, it's very easy, because that's what they actually invented fast-food restaurants for. You can go into any fast-food restaurant in America and make a pretty good Zone meal.
CHUNG: You're kidding?
SEARS: No.
CHUNG: I can't believe it.
SEARS: Of course you can't. And that's why there are benefits. If you know how to play the rules, McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King become your greatest allies.
CHUNG: And what do you get from them? What do you buy from them?
SEARS: Well, let's go to McDonald's. Let's have a typical meal.
CHUNG: All right.
SEARS: You might buy the McGrilled chicken sandwich and a McDonald's salad.
CHUNG: Oh, yes.
SEARS: You put the chicken breast on the salad. You throw away three-quarters of the bun, leaving behind one quarter of the bun as a very large crouton.
CHUNG: Very good.
SEARS: Love that meal.
CHUNG: All right, let's go to the next question and that has to do with portion.
SEARS: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought about going on the diet, but I'm a little confused on how I'm supposed to tell the ratios of the portions of food I'm supposed to be eating.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: All right, how do we do that?
SEARS: Actually, it is very easy, because all you need is your hand and your eye.
Here are the rules. At each meal, divide your plate into three sections. On one third of the plate, you put some low-fat protein that is no bigger and no thicker than the palm of your hand. The other two-thirds of the plate...
CHUNG: But I have a little hand.
(LAUGHTER)
SEARS: That's right. And I have a big hand. It is not fair.
CHUNG: It is not fair.
SEARS: But the other two-thirds of the plate, you fill until it is overflowing. You relatively supersize your plate with fruits and vegetables and then you add a dash -- that's a small amount -- a dash of heart-healthy monounsaturated fat. That could be olive oil, slivered almonds or guacamole. And there you have it.
CHUNG: Ah, guacamole, that's a pretty good idea.
SEARS: You have to come up with your own choices, because it is all about responsibility.
But here is a good rule of thumb when you go to the supermarket. You stay along the periphery of the supermarket and never go down the aisles. CHUNG: Really?
SEARS: And it's on the periphery that you find the fresh meats, the poultry, the vegetables, the dairy products. And get out of there as quick as you can.
(LAUGHTER)
SEARS: Your danger is when you walk down the aisles, because that's where all the food technology is saying, take my prepackaged carbohydrates home with me and consume them.
CHUNG: What is the greatest misconception about your diet?
SEARS: I think the misconception is that it's a high-protein diet. And it is very hard for The Zone diet to be a high-protein diet when you're actually consuming more carbohydrates than protein.
CHUNG: The scientific community has been very critical of your diet. It is just gibberish or it is not proven. What do you say?
SEARS: Well, in the last four years, there's been eight published studies that have compared The Zone diet to the recommendations of the American Heart Association or the USDA.
And in every published study, The Zone diet has had superior effects on insulin control, superior metabolic effects, superior effects on controlling hunger, and superior effects on weight loss. So, I think, from the standpoint, when the critics make that statement, they're simply not current with the most current ledger.
CHUNG: Thank you so much, Barry Sears. Thank you for being with us.
SEARS: My pleasure. Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Tomorrow, the mother of all diets takes our "Diet Challenge." That's right. We're taking on Atkins.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: An extraordinary trial began today, more than 36 years after the crime.
The defendant was tried and acquitted of the same crime in a state court more than 35 years ago. He cannot be tried again in the state. That would be double jeopardy. But federal prosecutors just recently realized that, because the murder occurred on federal land, the man could be tried today on federal murder charges.
CNN's David Mattingly reports on the trial that is forcing Mississippi to confront its past. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Now old and in poor health, 72-year-old Ernest Avants entered federal court preparing to defend himself in a murder trial almost 37 years in the making.
Back in 1966, Avants was one of three men accused of killing 67- year-old Ben Chester White in a bizarre plot to lure Martin Luther King Jr. back to Mississippi so he be could assassinated. Investigators claimed Avants later confessed to shooting White, but not one of the three was ever convicted by Mississippi courts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just a terrible tragedy, when here is three guys that committed a terrible murder and they were allowed to walk free. That's not justice.
MATTINGLY: It all happened deep in these woods outside Natchez, Mississippi. The old dirt road has been closed for years. The only way we could get to the scene of the crime was with the help of a state game warden and his truck. Five miles from the nearest paved road, we find Pretty Creek, where White's body was dumped after being shot 19 times.
(on camera): But what the FBI didn't realize at the time was that the bridge where the murder took place, this bridge, is in a national forest, under federal jurisdiction. That means, 36 years after Ernest Avants walked out of a Mississippi courtroom a free man, he now has to stand trial for murder again, this time in federal court.
(voice-over): Avants, now the only surviving defendant, was acquitted in 1967 and publicly pleads innocent. But this jury will likely hear about his alleged confession to an FBI agent. White's son Jesse is among those now preparing to end decades of waiting for a new day in court.
JESSE WHITE, SON OF VICTIM: It is like breathing a sigh of relief, you know, because we're looking forward to justice being served.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: This case now joins at least 19 other civil rights- era murder cases that have been reopened since 1989. This is the first case, however, that is being headed up by federal prosecutors -- Connie.
CHUNG: David, how difficult will it be for prosecutors to try a case so many years later?
MATTINGLY: Well, unlike last time, the prosecutors this time do not have to prove that Avants was the one who fired the fatal shot. This is a case of aiding and abetting in murder. And, still, it carries a maximum penalty of life in prison, if he's convicted.
CHUNG: And I know, David, there are probably people, certainly in the state, who don't want to dredge up the ugly past. What is the feeling there?
MATTINGLY: Well, people are watching this trial. And they certainly have their opinions, but the emotions are not nearly as strong as they were back in the mid-'60s.
This time, people are watching to see if, as the family wants and as investigators want in this case, if justice will be served, because a man was killed back in 1966 and no one was punished for it.
CHUNG: I'm sure the family would like to see some justice.
David Mattingly, thank you.
Up next: frightening hours for office workers in Tampa and some shocking movements that spectators never expected to see at an auto race -- tonight's "Snapshot" when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Tonight's "Snapshot" starts off with a scare at a government building in Florida.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG (voice-over): Four hundred workers were evacuated as federal agents searched a state office building in Tampa, where a rifle, ammunition and a grenade were discovered. No arrests were made. And authorities say they don't believe it is linked to terrorism.
A hard landing for three Army skydivers injured during a jump in a NASCAR race: 40-mile-an-hour winds knocked them to the ground yesterday and sent one skydiver bouncing off the top of Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s hauler. The three are in stable or good condition.
It's happened again in Texas. A wife is in jail, accused of running down her husband with a car after an argument. This time, the man survived.
Mixed results from the first AIDS vaccine to be tested on people: It's failed to protect most volunteers against infection with the HIV virus, but showed a lower infection rate for African-Americans and Asian-Americans.
"The Pianist" struck a winning chord at the British Academy Film Awards, capturing the prize for best film and best director for Roman Polanski.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: our "Persons of the Day," a surprise reunion.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Last night belonged to the new kid on the block, as Norah Jones pulled off a stunning Grammys sweep, including best new artist, album of the year and record of the year, "Don't Know Why."
But because New York still needs every boost it can get, the two sons of the city who kicked off the biggest night in music are tonight's "Persons of the Day."
Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel, who first sang together in high school in the borough of Queens, were honored last night at the Grammys with lifetime achievement awards. It was the first time in five years the Grammys were back in New York City. And the city itself was the award show's theme. It was also the first time in 10 years Simon and Garfunkel performed together.
It was a fitting tribute to New York and a fitting way to bring the Grammys back to New York at a time when the city is still struggling to recover from September 11, making Simon and Garfunkel tonight's "Persons of the Day."
And tomorrow: The Atkins diet turned the world of dieting on its ear. Now we will put it on the spot. Can the Atkins diet pass "The Diet Challenge"?
And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": a rare, exclusive interview with the woman who was only 13 years old when director Roman Polanski had unlawful sex with her.
Thank you so much for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and we'll see you tomorrow.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
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