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Grand Jury Opens Investigation

Aired February 26, 2003 - 10:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: This is a day of grief and grand jury questions in the aftermath of the Rhode Island nightclub fire that killed 97 people last week. A grand jury, as we said, opens its investigation today, as families and friends are gathering for the first funerals as well. And the stage manager for the club The Station is speaking out about the pyrotechnics that ignited the blaze in the first place.
Our Brian Cabell checks it now live from West Warwick, Rhode Island. He's got the latest on the story from there.

Good morning, Brian.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Leon.

The grand jury is convening at this hour, as a matter of fact, at a National Guard complex at East Greenwich, which is not far from here. A number of questions before them, of course. One of the most prominent certainly has to be whether permission was granted to the band to use pyrotechnics on Thursday night, last Thursday night. They say it was. The club owners say it wasn't.

Another question certainly before them is, what type of insulation was used on the wall, on the ceiling of that building that was formerly behind me. Was it appropriate? Did it perhaps lead to the spreading of the flames?

Now the band, Great White, went back to California shortly after the fire. It returned last night. The four remaining members. One of them, of course, lost his life in the fire. But they returned last night. In fact, we were just told they have actually shown up at the National Guard complex, so they may well be testifying today.

They, according to authorities, have been very cooperative so far in this investigation. But the owners of the club, the Derderian brothers, according to state authorities have been not cooperative.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK LYNCH, RHODE ISLAND ATTY. GENERAL: People cooperate or they don't, not limited perhaps to the Derderians, but we move ahead, trying as best we can to get at a point where we're content that based on the fact in all of the evidence we have looking at the applicable law, we can make a determination regarding justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CABELL: The stage manager over the last day or two has been very up front about his feelings on this. He said that he spoke to one of the brothers after a show about two or three months ago and expressed his concerns about the dangers of using pyrotechnics at this particular club.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just the fact that it was people coming in that I don't know, you know. It's like, I know some guys that do pyro that I've worked with for years and know they aren't a safe show and I don't have much concern. People coming to see that band, they see they're using pyro, so when their band comes in, they want to use it. But I don't know those guys. So it's kind of like, you know, what do you do -- you do it for one, you're supposed to do it for all? So I was just like, instead of that, why don't we just do it for none kind of thing.

QUESTION: And you did it for none after that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the way I recollect it. We didn't have bans that used pyro since that conversation.

QUESTION: So he took it to heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He took it to heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABELL: Now the governor reported yesterday that they had accounted for all of the missing persons except for one. They still weren't fully satisfied with this one missing person's report. So as a result, they brought heavy equipment out here yesterday, they brought sniffing dogs out yesterday, apparently looking for human remains. From everything we saw, everything we heard, they found nothing in the pile of rubble behind me.

So the death toll, Leon, as we understand, still stands as it has for the last few days at 97. Of course, several people remain in critical condition at a number of hospitals -- Leon.

HARRIS: Thanks. Let's hope at some point the story gets better at some point soon for those people.

Thanks. Brian Cabell, reporting live this morning from West Warwick, Rhode Island.

Now this tragedy open up a Pandora's Box of legal issues, all converging on the central question of who is to blame for what happened in Rhode Island? As with all things involving the law, the answers may not be very clear cut.

Joining us now by phone is our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin to give us a closer look at all of that -- Jeffrey, what jumps out at your mind first of all this morning? JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the -- what jumps out is that the plot is thickening daily about who knew what about these fireworks and at first the Derderians said clearly that we would never use fireworks in our club, period. Now it appears that, at least in the past, fireworks were used, and we've seen videotape, actually very chilling videotape that looks almost identical to the now very familiar videotape of the fire, of pyrotechnics being used in the club.

We have the stage manager suggesting that the Derderians having heard how dangerous it was then vowed not to use it anymore. We should be hearing from him shortly. These stories tend to get more complicated, not less complicated as they proceed. A lot of different people are involved. Everyone needs to know who knew what when, and that's the job of investigators as this moves forward.

HARRIS: All right. Now, we just heard the stage manager there saying that -- in addition to him saying that fireworks had been used in the past, he also said after his conversation with the owners that he doesn't remember since that conversation. So this may be the first time it was used. We don't know that. But does that mean it boils down to a case of the owners' word versus the band members' words, because we expect the band members to continue their story, saying that they were told they could use the fireworks.

TOOBIN: Well, certainly, at one level it is a kind of he said/she said story -- or he said/he said, the contradiction between the band members and the club owners. But remember, there are going to be a lot of different people involved here. A lot of people who were present. There is a contract between the band and the club. What did the contract say? That has not come out yet. That -- the pyrotechnics or their absence might be alluded to in the contract. There are a lot of moving parts here, even though you're not talking about companies as big as Enron here. You're talking about a small club in Rhode Island and a somewhat struggling band. There are still several different people involved, and we're starting to hear from each of the different players.

HARRIS: All right. And -- while all of this goes on, I have got to think the grand jury must have a different agenda rather than some of the other -- the personal injury lawyers that are going to be coming in from all sides on this as well?

TOOBIN: Very different agendas. The job of a grand jury is solely to determine whether criminal responsibility can be laid anywhere. And certainly their focus will be on the club owners and the band. Once you start getting into civil lawsuits and personal injury lawyers, you're likely to see a much broader array of potential defendants being investigated. In addition to the club and the band, you're going to have the manufacturers of virtually everything in the club, including, most notably, the sound proofing insulation which went up in flames so quickly. Perhaps the landlord of the club. Perhaps even, although this is very difficult to do, suing the government of Rhode Island or of East Warwick (sic) for an insufficient or inadequate inspection. Those are going to be explored in the civil cases that are certain to come. Also, prominent in the civil cases will be a search by the plaintiffs' lawyers for a deep pocket, someone who can really pay damages because it's unlikely that either the club or the band has much money to pay the dozens and dozens of people who died, as well as the people who were injured.

HARRIS: And sounds like the legal race here is just getting out of the starting blocks. We'll have to cover this for some time to come, no doubt. Jeffrey Toobin in New York. Thanks, Jeffrey. Appreciate the insight.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired February 26, 2003 - 10:01   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: This is a day of grief and grand jury questions in the aftermath of the Rhode Island nightclub fire that killed 97 people last week. A grand jury, as we said, opens its investigation today, as families and friends are gathering for the first funerals as well. And the stage manager for the club The Station is speaking out about the pyrotechnics that ignited the blaze in the first place.
Our Brian Cabell checks it now live from West Warwick, Rhode Island. He's got the latest on the story from there.

Good morning, Brian.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Leon.

The grand jury is convening at this hour, as a matter of fact, at a National Guard complex at East Greenwich, which is not far from here. A number of questions before them, of course. One of the most prominent certainly has to be whether permission was granted to the band to use pyrotechnics on Thursday night, last Thursday night. They say it was. The club owners say it wasn't.

Another question certainly before them is, what type of insulation was used on the wall, on the ceiling of that building that was formerly behind me. Was it appropriate? Did it perhaps lead to the spreading of the flames?

Now the band, Great White, went back to California shortly after the fire. It returned last night. The four remaining members. One of them, of course, lost his life in the fire. But they returned last night. In fact, we were just told they have actually shown up at the National Guard complex, so they may well be testifying today.

They, according to authorities, have been very cooperative so far in this investigation. But the owners of the club, the Derderian brothers, according to state authorities have been not cooperative.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK LYNCH, RHODE ISLAND ATTY. GENERAL: People cooperate or they don't, not limited perhaps to the Derderians, but we move ahead, trying as best we can to get at a point where we're content that based on the fact in all of the evidence we have looking at the applicable law, we can make a determination regarding justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CABELL: The stage manager over the last day or two has been very up front about his feelings on this. He said that he spoke to one of the brothers after a show about two or three months ago and expressed his concerns about the dangers of using pyrotechnics at this particular club.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just the fact that it was people coming in that I don't know, you know. It's like, I know some guys that do pyro that I've worked with for years and know they aren't a safe show and I don't have much concern. People coming to see that band, they see they're using pyro, so when their band comes in, they want to use it. But I don't know those guys. So it's kind of like, you know, what do you do -- you do it for one, you're supposed to do it for all? So I was just like, instead of that, why don't we just do it for none kind of thing.

QUESTION: And you did it for none after that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the way I recollect it. We didn't have bans that used pyro since that conversation.

QUESTION: So he took it to heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He took it to heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABELL: Now the governor reported yesterday that they had accounted for all of the missing persons except for one. They still weren't fully satisfied with this one missing person's report. So as a result, they brought heavy equipment out here yesterday, they brought sniffing dogs out yesterday, apparently looking for human remains. From everything we saw, everything we heard, they found nothing in the pile of rubble behind me.

So the death toll, Leon, as we understand, still stands as it has for the last few days at 97. Of course, several people remain in critical condition at a number of hospitals -- Leon.

HARRIS: Thanks. Let's hope at some point the story gets better at some point soon for those people.

Thanks. Brian Cabell, reporting live this morning from West Warwick, Rhode Island.

Now this tragedy open up a Pandora's Box of legal issues, all converging on the central question of who is to blame for what happened in Rhode Island? As with all things involving the law, the answers may not be very clear cut.

Joining us now by phone is our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin to give us a closer look at all of that -- Jeffrey, what jumps out at your mind first of all this morning? JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the -- what jumps out is that the plot is thickening daily about who knew what about these fireworks and at first the Derderians said clearly that we would never use fireworks in our club, period. Now it appears that, at least in the past, fireworks were used, and we've seen videotape, actually very chilling videotape that looks almost identical to the now very familiar videotape of the fire, of pyrotechnics being used in the club.

We have the stage manager suggesting that the Derderians having heard how dangerous it was then vowed not to use it anymore. We should be hearing from him shortly. These stories tend to get more complicated, not less complicated as they proceed. A lot of different people are involved. Everyone needs to know who knew what when, and that's the job of investigators as this moves forward.

HARRIS: All right. Now, we just heard the stage manager there saying that -- in addition to him saying that fireworks had been used in the past, he also said after his conversation with the owners that he doesn't remember since that conversation. So this may be the first time it was used. We don't know that. But does that mean it boils down to a case of the owners' word versus the band members' words, because we expect the band members to continue their story, saying that they were told they could use the fireworks.

TOOBIN: Well, certainly, at one level it is a kind of he said/she said story -- or he said/he said, the contradiction between the band members and the club owners. But remember, there are going to be a lot of different people involved here. A lot of people who were present. There is a contract between the band and the club. What did the contract say? That has not come out yet. That -- the pyrotechnics or their absence might be alluded to in the contract. There are a lot of moving parts here, even though you're not talking about companies as big as Enron here. You're talking about a small club in Rhode Island and a somewhat struggling band. There are still several different people involved, and we're starting to hear from each of the different players.

HARRIS: All right. And -- while all of this goes on, I have got to think the grand jury must have a different agenda rather than some of the other -- the personal injury lawyers that are going to be coming in from all sides on this as well?

TOOBIN: Very different agendas. The job of a grand jury is solely to determine whether criminal responsibility can be laid anywhere. And certainly their focus will be on the club owners and the band. Once you start getting into civil lawsuits and personal injury lawyers, you're likely to see a much broader array of potential defendants being investigated. In addition to the club and the band, you're going to have the manufacturers of virtually everything in the club, including, most notably, the sound proofing insulation which went up in flames so quickly. Perhaps the landlord of the club. Perhaps even, although this is very difficult to do, suing the government of Rhode Island or of East Warwick (sic) for an insufficient or inadequate inspection. Those are going to be explored in the civil cases that are certain to come. Also, prominent in the civil cases will be a search by the plaintiffs' lawyers for a deep pocket, someone who can really pay damages because it's unlikely that either the club or the band has much money to pay the dozens and dozens of people who died, as well as the people who were injured.

HARRIS: And sounds like the legal race here is just getting out of the starting blocks. We'll have to cover this for some time to come, no doubt. Jeffrey Toobin in New York. Thanks, Jeffrey. Appreciate the insight.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com