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American Morning
Racist Nursery Rhyme?
Aired February 27, 2003 - 07:47 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to shift our attention right now to a feature we do here with our good friend, Jeffrey Toobin. It's called "I am Jacked."
"Eenie, meenie, minie, moe," you've heard the nursery rhyme before. You might not know that the rhyme has roots in racism.
That's the basis right now of a discrimination lawsuit filed against Southwest Airlines by two women, two African-Americans.
Now, in his segment today, let's bring in Jeffrey.
Do you object? Why?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I object. OK, let's just set the stage of what happened in this case.
Southwest Airlines, a flight from Las Vegas to Kansas City. They get on the flight, the two women who become the plaintiffs, and they can't -- there are no seats available. And if you've ever flown on Southwest, you know that the flight attendants are sort of jokey (ph) sometimes, and they say, "eenie, meenie, minie, moe; take a seat, we gotta go." And they finally take a seat.
Months later, they file a lawsuit against Southwest, saying that "eenie, meenie, minie moe" is a racist nursery rhyme, and that they were offended and their rights were violated.
Now, what you probably don't know, and what I didnt know, but what a lot of people do know is that it does have a racist history. The old phrase was, "eenie, meenie, minie moe, catch an 'N word' by the toe. If he hollers, make him pay $50 every day." That has been replaced by "catch a tiger by the toe" -- very familiar to everyone.
This is an insane lawsuit, as far as I can tell. You know, the phrase, "don't make a federal case out if it," seems to be invented for this lawsuit, but it is going to trial in April.
HEMMER: You say it degrades the currency of actual racial discrimination.
TOOBIN: Well, racial discrimination is a serious, real thing in this country, and to let a lawsuit like this go to trial, it seems to me to degrade, you know, a serious subject and make a joke out of it.
HEMMER: Well, here's what they're claiming -- put it on the screen right now: "As a direct result of Southwest's conduct, Ms. Fuller was subjected to ridicule and suffered severe humiliation, emotional distress, mental anguish, bodily harm." You buying this?
TOOBIN: Well, I mean, first, there's no evidence of any of that. And you know, the poor flight attendant, there is no evidence at all that this flight attendant knew that there was this ugly history to this phrase. She was just trying to get people to get seated on the plane.
And look at the size of this, look at this brief. This is all about the nursery rhyme.
HEMMER: What do they want? Do they want money? Do they want an apology? What?
TOOBIN: They want money. You know, the legal rule. I've cited this before. When people say it's not about the money, it is about the money.
HEMMER: It is about money.
TOOBIN: Yes.
HEMMER: Quickly though, you say there is no impact on this woman. They are saying right now -- back to the screen again: "As a direct result of the severe emotional distress caused by Southwest's conduct, Ms. Fuller suffered an epileptic seizure on the evening of February 15, 2001."
TOOBIN: This a joke or what?
HEMMER: You laugh again.
TOOBIN: I mean, you know, this woman is an epileptic and that's very sad and I'm sorry about that. But you know, this nursery rhyme did not cause her to have an epileptic seizure. That is not what the legal system is all about.
HEMMER: Not everything is with the lawsuit, you're saying.
TOOBIN: You know? Don't make a federal case out of that. That's my rule.
HEMMER: Thank you, pal.
TOOBIN: All right, man.
HEMMER: You can object all of the time.
TOOBIN: All right.
HEMMER: Talk to you next hour about Robert Blake and what we saw and heard yesterday.
TOOBIN: I object to that, too.
HEMMER: Excellent. Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired February 27, 2003 - 07:47 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to shift our attention right now to a feature we do here with our good friend, Jeffrey Toobin. It's called "I am Jacked."
"Eenie, meenie, minie, moe," you've heard the nursery rhyme before. You might not know that the rhyme has roots in racism.
That's the basis right now of a discrimination lawsuit filed against Southwest Airlines by two women, two African-Americans.
Now, in his segment today, let's bring in Jeffrey.
Do you object? Why?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I object. OK, let's just set the stage of what happened in this case.
Southwest Airlines, a flight from Las Vegas to Kansas City. They get on the flight, the two women who become the plaintiffs, and they can't -- there are no seats available. And if you've ever flown on Southwest, you know that the flight attendants are sort of jokey (ph) sometimes, and they say, "eenie, meenie, minie, moe; take a seat, we gotta go." And they finally take a seat.
Months later, they file a lawsuit against Southwest, saying that "eenie, meenie, minie moe" is a racist nursery rhyme, and that they were offended and their rights were violated.
Now, what you probably don't know, and what I didnt know, but what a lot of people do know is that it does have a racist history. The old phrase was, "eenie, meenie, minie moe, catch an 'N word' by the toe. If he hollers, make him pay $50 every day." That has been replaced by "catch a tiger by the toe" -- very familiar to everyone.
This is an insane lawsuit, as far as I can tell. You know, the phrase, "don't make a federal case out if it," seems to be invented for this lawsuit, but it is going to trial in April.
HEMMER: You say it degrades the currency of actual racial discrimination.
TOOBIN: Well, racial discrimination is a serious, real thing in this country, and to let a lawsuit like this go to trial, it seems to me to degrade, you know, a serious subject and make a joke out of it.
HEMMER: Well, here's what they're claiming -- put it on the screen right now: "As a direct result of Southwest's conduct, Ms. Fuller was subjected to ridicule and suffered severe humiliation, emotional distress, mental anguish, bodily harm." You buying this?
TOOBIN: Well, I mean, first, there's no evidence of any of that. And you know, the poor flight attendant, there is no evidence at all that this flight attendant knew that there was this ugly history to this phrase. She was just trying to get people to get seated on the plane.
And look at the size of this, look at this brief. This is all about the nursery rhyme.
HEMMER: What do they want? Do they want money? Do they want an apology? What?
TOOBIN: They want money. You know, the legal rule. I've cited this before. When people say it's not about the money, it is about the money.
HEMMER: It is about money.
TOOBIN: Yes.
HEMMER: Quickly though, you say there is no impact on this woman. They are saying right now -- back to the screen again: "As a direct result of the severe emotional distress caused by Southwest's conduct, Ms. Fuller suffered an epileptic seizure on the evening of February 15, 2001."
TOOBIN: This a joke or what?
HEMMER: You laugh again.
TOOBIN: I mean, you know, this woman is an epileptic and that's very sad and I'm sorry about that. But you know, this nursery rhyme did not cause her to have an epileptic seizure. That is not what the legal system is all about.
HEMMER: Not everything is with the lawsuit, you're saying.
TOOBIN: You know? Don't make a federal case out of that. That's my rule.
HEMMER: Thank you, pal.
TOOBIN: All right, man.
HEMMER: You can object all of the time.
TOOBIN: All right.
HEMMER: Talk to you next hour about Robert Blake and what we saw and heard yesterday.
TOOBIN: I object to that, too.
HEMMER: Excellent. Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
