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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
What Does Mohammed Know About New Attacks on U.S.?; Abortion Doctor Killer's Trial Begins; Robert Blake's Trial Continues
Aired March 3, 2003 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight, the accused mastermind of 9/11.
What does know about new attacks on America?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: The suspected mastermind of the 9/11 attacks captured.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This arrest is as big or bigger than bin Laden because this was the brain. This is the guy who has been behind everything.
ANNOUNCER: What does one of the world's most wanted men know about terrorist sleeper cells in the U.S.?
How will the U.S. Break this prisoner to get the information it wants?
Plus, Mohammed's past. What is the North Carolina collection?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I may have helped given him some background that would help him accomplish the World Trade Center catastrophe.
ANNOUNCER: And what kind of life did this alleged terrorist live while he was on the run?
This man admits shooting a doctor who performed abortions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone had to stop Barnett Slepian from killing any more babies.
ANNOUNCER: The controversial trial begins.
Hollywood murder mystery.
This witness says actor Robert Blake wanted his wife dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, this witness has a history of violent conduct, having weapons and being a drug addict. And I would like to explore everything about his background that might impact on whether or not he's credible.
ANNOUNCER: Is there enough evidence to try Blake for murder?
And "Our Person of the Day," a smile on his face.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. From the CNN broadcast center in New York, Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening. Tonight, some fascinating information about Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the big al Qaeda catch now in U.S. custody. According to U.S. officials, he's the mastermind behind the September 11 attack. A planner in other al Qaeda attacks since 1993 and the communications link between hundreds of al Qaeda terrorists. We'll show you a man who hated America, but not enough to stop him from getting an education here. We'll show you a man accused of using Islam to raise money and recruits, but who didn't let his faith stop him from spending that money in bars and nightclubs.
But first, the information found along with Mohammed raised a more immediate concern.
As CNN's national security correspondent David Ensor reports, clues that the scene of his arrest suggest Mohammed has operatives inside the U.S. right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Among the information seized at the house where the al Qaeda operations chief was captured, U.S. sources tell CNN, is a treasure trove on al Qaeda. Including names of suspected al Qaeda operatives, some them believed to be in cities in the United States. Sources say Washington, D.C. is among the cities the information suggests may contain al Qaeda personnel.
U.S. official have said they have evidence Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was trying recently to organize another attack against the United States. U.S. intelligence officials are declining comment on the information gleaned during the raid, but other U.S. sources say FBI agents are speeding to try to track down the suspected operatives named in it, hoping to stop any imminent attack.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, ASST. ATTY. GENERAL: We are obviously always mindful of the need to be vigilant and move as quickly as possible to frustrate anything that is on going in terms of potential terrorist threats.
ENSOR: Mohammed, meantime, is under intense interrogation at an undisclosed location by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency. The officials say all appropriate pressure will be used in an effort to stop any attacks the new prisoner may know of.
ARI FLEISCHER: The standard for any type of interrogation of somebody in American custody is to be humane, and to follow all international laws and accords dealing with this type of subject. That is precisely what has been happening, and exactly what will happen.
ENSOR: Although the White House expressed warm gratitude to Pakistan's President Musharraf, some U.S. officials privately expressed dismay that Pakistani officials made news of the seizure public so quickly. U.S. officials would have liked more time to try to roll up al Qaeda cells before word got to them that their operations chief was in enemy hands.
PETER BERGEN, TERRORISM ANALYST: It is quite possible that people may panic and try and push something forward because they're worried he may talk. Most of the al Qaeda leadership have eventually talked. The question is really time. You know, time is of the essence.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: Time is of the essence. Though officials express confidence that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed can be convinced to cooperate with his interrogators they are in a hurry -- Connie.
CHUNG: David, do authorities know what Mohammed was targeting?
ENSOR: No. And that is what they want to find out and find out as quickly as they can. There was some information, but they had a previously that he might have been interested in tackling around the time of the 9/11 attacks, he might also have been thinking about trying to hijack tanker trucks and hit gasoline stations and take out the suspension supports in some bridges. So that is one type of attack that they were thinking he might have been interested in, but they have no evidence he's operationally tried to put that kind of an attack into position.
CHUNG: All right, David, stay there. I want to get back to you in a moment. Let's bring in CNN terrorist analyst Peter Bergen in Washington.
Peter is Mohammed irreplaceable or is there someone who can take his place?
BERGEN: Well, no one is irreplaceable. And al Qaeda is an organization which evolved into an ideology which is shared by a lot of people unfortunately. However you take one person out of the mix, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed would be the one person you want to take out of the mix. I mean, here is a guy who has been doing anti-American attacks of one type or another since 1993 and is, obviously, a bright guy, spoke four languages, had networks around the world in Southeast Asia, also in South Asia. You know, lived in this country for at least two years, is somebody who is a formidable opponent. So no one is irreplaceable. Nonetheless, this one person would be very -- is the highest person on the list in terms of actually getting him off the street and basically preventing attacks that he might have wanted to conduct.
CHUNG: David, Congressional hearings were very critical of U.S. intelligence for not recognizing the importance of Mohammed.
Is there a feeling now that they -- that U.S. intelligence just was asleep at the wheel?
ENSOR: There had been reports suggesting that. And I talked to intelligence officials annoyed by that. They say they were not, that they've been trying to catch this guy since '93, but he's very elusive and clever, as Peter said. Speaks several languages, able to change the way he looks, carried multiple passports, not all of them false. So was just a very elusive customer and they are totally delighted to have him.
CHUNG: Were the activities that Mohammed engaging in the cause of this change in our alert system to orange?
BERGEN: Clearly there was increased chatter at the time the orange alert went up. Clearly Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is a guy who would have been overseeing any operations. So having him off the street certainly reduces the threat of that. But I think the larger point is that even with the arrest of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, we have what is almost sadly a war against Iraq that will get anti-Western sentiment around the world and anti-American sentiment. And I think we'll have all sorts of terrorist attacks from all sorts of people, sort of acting in the name of al Qaeda.
They may actually have nothing to do with a formal organization itself. Also al Qaeda itself will take it as an opportunity to launch further attacks. If they can't launch an attack tied to the war in Iraq, I think they would be out of business. So, they will be aiming to produce something tied to this war in Iraq.
CHUNG: Peter, can you give's score card who is now in custody in terms of the al Qaeda leadership and who should we still be looking for?
BERGEN: I think the people we're still looking for are Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, the people who lead this organization. I mentioned -- I mean also I think it is important the Sod bin Laden the son. There is also a guy called Saif al-Adel who is regarded as important. I mean, I think getting rid of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was a huge step. We've also taken Abu Zubaydah, there are others. But the ideological head of the organization Ayman al-Zawahiri and the guy, the CEO or the Chief Executive, Osama bin Laden are obviously still AWOL. And we don't seem to have had any luck in trying to find them.
CHUNG: All right, David Ensor, Peter Bergen, thank you. We'll come back to you, Peter, in just a moment.
As we mentioned, Mohammed may have hated America and he may have been a devout Muslim, but that didn't prevent him from seeking an education here, or according to officials, seeking a very Western style good time at nightclubs. Police in the Philippines say Mohammed and others in his cell picked up girlfriends in Manila's red light district. Authorities also say Mohammed was a top al Qaeda fund- raiser who somehow also had the money to rent a helicopter to impress a would be girlfriend. And as much as Mohammed may have hated America specifically, he wasn't above coming here to learn technical know-how that may have made the September 11 attacks possible. CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A picturesque college campus, Greensboro, North Carolina, A&T University. Monuments honor famous alumni. But one 1986 graduate is not celebrated. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, now in the hands of U.S. interrogators.
PROF. DAVID KLETT, NC A&T UNIVERSITY: Very surprised. And dismayed.
CANDIOTTI: Mechanical engineering Professor David Klett taught him and he's troubled.
KLETT: I may have helped given him some background that would help him accomplish the World Trade Center catastrophe.
CANDIOTTI: That catastrophe helped put Khalid Shaikh Mohammed on the FBI's most wanted terror list.
KLETT: To think that I sat across a desk from him, probably multiple times, advising him on what courses to take and so forth, that bothers me.
CANDIOTTI: Professor Klett cannot remember Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's face, but the professor vividly remembers the mandatory courses records show he taught him in the mid '80s, including "Thermodynamics".
KLETT: Those things would have been necessary for them to consider when they planned the World Trade Center attack with the airplanes.
CANDIOTTI: About eight years after graduating, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed may have used that theoretical knowledge planning terror attacks in Southeast Asia.
In 1995, he escaped capture after a fire in a Manila apartment where bomb-making materials was found. He was indicted in the U.S. for plotting to blow up U.S. commercial airliners.
There are suspected links to first World Trade Center attack in 1993, the African embassy bombings in 1998, the terror attack on the USS Cole in Yemen in 2000.
SAMMI ZITAWI, FORMER CLASSMATE: That's his name. Khalid Mohammed.
CANDIOTTI: Mechanical engineering graduate Sammi Zitawi was a classmate, but says there was never anti-American talk.
Zitawi says Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was one of about 30 Muslim students who lived off campus and rented an apartment to use as a mosque. ZITAWI: There was an apartment in this building and this apartment for sure.
CANDIOTTI: Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's former classmate remembers him as deeply religious and quiet. And now...
ZITAWI: You don't know what to believe, but I think anything is possible in this life. Years go by and people change.
CANDIOTTI (on camera): When Khalid Shaikh Mohammed completed his studies here in 1986, his forwarding address, a local post office box. At the time, little to indicate what he was to become, one of the world's most wanted men.
Susan Candiotti, CNN, Greensboro, North Carolina.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: For all that's known about Mohammed, the most pressing question remains -- how to make him talk. Mohammed is being interrogated by U.S. officials in an undisclosed location. It's not the U.S .and it's not Pakistan.
Joining us to help with us the broader techniques of interrogation and how they might be applied to Mohammed, we have again with us CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen and CNN security analyst Kelly Mccann. Thank you, both.
Kelly, what do you think has been happening to Mohammed in the first, say, 24 to 36 hours that he's been in custody?
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Connie, right after the raid environment started, in other words, you're awoken at 4:00 in the morning with people with black hoods, weapons, you're taken out of your control zone, if you will, or your level or area of comfort, they're going seek to keep him destabilized and let him know, in no uncertain terms, that he is no longer in control.
Once that's done, by moving him place to place, he'll have to be processed and that processing would include shaving him, shaving his beard, that has religious significance, maybe disrobing him, maybe in the presence of females, something that would be distasteful to a Muslim man. Anything to make him off balance and basically understand that he is no longer seen as the third person in charge of al Qaeda, but a detainee.
After that, an initial interview will be conducted to determine those personality traits that could become vulnerabilities, depending on which way they're played. That interview will be given to a team of interrogators who will review it and then plan the way they're going to interrogate him which may or may not include the stress and duress techniques that we've all heard so much about recently.
CHUNG: Now Peter, he obviously is a wealth of information, but why would he talk?
BERGEN: Well, ego is a possible answer to that.
I mean, some of the al Qaeda leaders that have talked in the past have done so just because they want to show that they're big guys and players on the scene. You know, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed has given an interview, in April of last year, which aired on the anniversary of 9/11 to al Jazeera correspondent, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), in which he laid out the whole 9/11 plan in quite some detail and was quite happy to take full credit for it. So it's possible that ego might come into play.
Kelly, is the so called good cop/bad cop method or technique used in these cases?
MCCANN: It is, Connie.
The interesting thing is that although it seems to be very elemental, if you add to that some measure of sleep deprivation, which basically reduces the cognitive functioning of the brain, it's almost then much more difficult to discern whether, in fact, this is sincerely a good person who is kind of sympathetic to me and an angry person who obviously is nonsympathetic or unsympathetic or whether it is that ploy.
So it's the whole overall technique that could be used that will be most, you know, fruitful.
CHUNG: And, finally, Peter, how does intelligence know if he's telling the truth?
BERGEN: Well, that's a good question. There is an example of something Abu Zubaydah, who is one of the al Qaeda, detainees, something he said was cross referenced with other information. That led to the arrest in may in Chicago of Jose Padilla, who is allegedly coming to the United States to plant a radiological weapon. So it's cross referencing back things that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed will say to things we already know that will lead to some fruitful outcomes, one hopes.
CHUNG: And, Kelly McCann, last question in the last 15 seconds we have -- does any international law truly prevent these U.S. intelligence officers from engaging in what might border on torture?
MCCANN: That's the point of the question, Connie. It is the definition of what is and what isn't torture that is key.
He will be medically cared for, he will eat, he'll be provided other sustenance. Whether sleep deprivation goes to torture or doesn't is the big question.
CHUNG: All right. Kelly McCann, Peter Bergen, thank you, both.
Still ahead, to a war on terror to a possible war with Iraq. Is Iraq making progress in destroying its weapons? Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ANNOUNCER: Next, the true crime drama unfolds in a California courtroom. Robert Blake -- will he face trial for murder? CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns in a moment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: A former "Barretta" stunt man was back on the stand in Los Angeles today at a preliminary hearing for actor Robert Blake. Blake was back in court for the testimony.
Last week, the former stuntman testified that Blake tried to hire him to kill his wife, Bonny Lee Bakley. Today, the former stuntman faced tough cross examination by Blake's attorney.
CNN's Charles Feldman has been covering the hearing and joins us from Los Angeles tonight. Charlie, I understand this second stuntman, when he was on the stand, had some -- suffered some credibility problems.
CHARLES FELDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, indeed so, because his story has been all over the map, Connie, since Friday. For example, today it came out that he had told a fellow stuntman a story about Blake offering him $100,000 to kill Bonny Lee Bakley. Well, that turned out not to be absolutely the case. In fact, he said on the stand that wasn't true at all. But what he did say on the stand is that Blake did discuss with him, he claims, some sort of payment in order to bump off Bonny Lee Bakley.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONALD HAMBLETON, FORMER STUNTMAN: He told me that he needed to start taking money out of the bank in small denominations over a period of time so that he wouldn't be withdrawing all the money at once.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FELDMAN: And so there you have sort of two different stories from this one stuntman, one claiming that he told a stuntman about $100,000 deal, but then admitting that wasn't true. And then saying on the stand that on the other hand, Blake did discuss with him some sort of payment for him to kill his wife. So some credibility problems, Connie.
CHUNG: Charles, how is the prosecution going to handle these credibility problems that this particular stuntman has?
FELDMAN: Well, one of the ways they're doing it is they're trying to say that he was afraid of Robert Blake and so he's changed his story over time as he felt more comfortable revealing what he says actually happened. But Thomas Mesereau, Blake's attorney, will have none of that and has vigorously attacked Mr. Hambleton's credibility on the stand, as you can hear in this next soundbite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS MESEREAU JR., BLAKE'S ATTORNEY: Police officer said that you, Mr. Hambleton, at any point in the time that you've known him, has he ever even kidded around or approached anybody that you know about doing a hit or taking care some of dirty work for him? See that question?
HAMBLETON: Yes.
MESEREAU: Your answer was no, true?
Is that yes?
HAMBLETON: Yes, my answer is no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FELDMAN: Now, the importance of that, Connie, is this: Initially when Mr. Hambleton talked with the cops, as you just heard, he didn't tell them anything about Robert Blake approaching him to kill Bonny Lee Bakley. In fact, he said quite the opposite, that the only thing he ever discussed with Robert Blake was show business, the motion picture industry, and said to the police initially that Blake wasn't the kind of fellow who would talk about a hit on anyone -- Connie.
CHUNG: Charles Feldman in Los Angeles. Thank you.
The Pentagon today revealed a tense encounter between North Korean and American jets this weekend. A U.S. Air Force reconnaissance plane on what the Pentagon called a routine mission was intercepted by four North Korean MiG fighter jets. It happened over international waters, about 150 miles from North Korea's coast. One fighter jet locked its targeting radar onto the U.S. plane at one point, but no shots were fired. It was the first such incident since North Korea shot down a U.S. surveillance plane in 1969.
As for Iraq, news from Baghdad tops tonight's "Look at the World in 60."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG (voice-over): Iraq destroyed more of its banned Al Samoud missiles today, after scrapping 10 over the weekend. Baghdad also says its stockpiles of nerve gas and anthrax have been destroyed, and a report will be submitted shortly.
The U.S. predicts victory in a war against Iraq even if Turkey doesn't allow its country to be used as a U.S. staging area. Turkey's markets were down today after its parliament rejected that proposal on Saturday.
In Athens, the trial of 19 suspected members of the deadliest terror group in Greece began. The 17 November group is blamed for 23 murders since the 1970s, including that of four Americans.
In Washington, the winning design for the Pentagon's memorial to 9/11 victims was unveiled. It will include a grove of trees and a bench for each of the 184 people killed in the attack.
Israeli troops arrested a founder of the militant group Hamas during a raid on a Gaza refugee camp. At least eight Palestinians were killed, including a pregnant woman and a 13-year-old boy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Next, he says he doesn't regret shooting a doctor who performed abortions. The controversial trial that's about much more than murder. CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: An extraordinary trial began today that threatens to make abortion even more of a hot button issue in this country. James Kopp hasn't denied killing a doctor who performed abortions. He just denies that it was wrong. As CNN's Jamie Colby reports, it's a trial that could polarize the jury and divide the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE COLBY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): James Kopp was a man on the run, an anti-abortion activist arrested many times. After the sniper slaying of Dr. Barnett Slepian in 1998, Kopp disappeared to Mexico, the United Kingdom, and eventually France. Slepian was a popular obstetrician and gynecologist who sometimes performed abortions at a Buffalo clinic. His life ended one Friday evening while heating soup in his kitchen. His wife and four sons were home when a .30 caliber bullet fired from a rifle in the woods behind the house, pierced a window and then Slepian's back.
A Nashville, Tennessee pawnshop had sold the rifle to a man matching Kopp's description. The FBI says his DNA matched hair fibers on a hat buried with the weapon. And neighbors described a car resembling Kopp's parked near Slepian's home on a number of occasions before the shooting. It was later abandoned at Newark Airport. Kopp was missing, and now accused of murder.
FRANK CLARK, ERIE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Warrant for Kopp's arrest has issued from a local criminal court.
COLBY: The FBI placed him on its 10 most wanted list in 1999, the same week as terrorist leader Osama bin Laden, with no results for almost two years.
The FBI tracking e-mails of two friends sending Kopp money from the U.S. knew Kopp would be picking up a package from them at a post office in the town of Denon (ph), France.
DENISE O'DONNELL, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: I'm gratified today that the French police have made an arrest of James Charles Kopp.
COLBY: Kopp was extradited to New York last year, after the U.S. promised France he would not face the death penalty. If convicted on state murder charges, Kopp could spend 25 years to life in prison. Kopp says he is innocent of any crime, though "The Buffalo News" says he told them in a jailhouse interview he targeted Slepian to stop him performing abortions, saying in the article, quote, "The truth is not that I regret shooting Dr. Slepian, I regret that he died."
Slepian's widow Lynn who has never talked publicly about the shooting is an expected prosecution witness. Buffalo has been the site of anti-abortion protests for years. And Kopp has his supporters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone had to stop Barnett Slepian from killing any more babies.
COLBY: A pool of 300 potential jurors will fill out questionnaires, gauging their views on the divisive abortion issue and their knowledge of the highly publicized case.
(on camera): Jury selection is expected to take two weeks, the trial, a month. Kopp will then face federal charges for using deadly force against an abortion provider.
Jamie Colby, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Kopp's attorney says abortion will take center stage at this trial and that how jurors feel about abortion will affect their deliberations.
Joining us now is our legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeffrey, I understand that Kopp's attorney is going to adopt an unusual tactic for the defense. And that is?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you to understand the context here. He parted ways with his original lawyer, who was sort of a regular criminal defense lawyer and got a lawyer from the anti- abortion movement.
And they have said that they're going to argue that what he did was justifiable, that it was a -- it wasn't intentional murder; all he was trying to do was injury Slepian and stop him from committing more abortions. Therefore, he didn't have the intent to commit murder.
CHUNG: So is the judge going to allow that?
TOOBIN: I don't think so. I don't think any judge in America would let a jury even listen to an argument like that, because it is simply not a defense to murder to say, I was just shooting a high- powered rife to injure someone. It is too contrary to common sense and the facts as we know them. So, I think he's just not even going to get that before the jury.
CHUNG: So will that emerge, the approval or disapproval of this unusual strategy, before or after jury selection?
TOOBIN: Hard to know. It is going to be a tricky business. That's why attitudes to abortion have to be part of jury selection. And judges don't like to get into asking jurors about personal political matters like that, but it simply just matters so much in a case like this, when the politics of abortion are at center stage, that it is understandable that these jury questionnaires, which the jury got today, have a lot of questions dealing with how they feel about abortion.
CHUNG: So how do you think it is going to go? In other words, what will the prosecution want and what will the defense want when it comes to these individual jurors?
TOOBIN: Well, I think, clearly, the defense will want people who are pro-life and strongly so.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
CHUNG: No, no, no, but, I mean, either one will try to knock off the other, but how can they come up with a jury?
TOOBIN: But I think the prosecution can cast a much wider net. Most pro-life people are not in favor of murder. That is a -- I think that's pretty clear. So the broad cross-section of America, people who are pro-choice, pro-life, not with strong feelings on the subject, those people will be fine with the prosecutors. It is the hard-core pro-life people that the defense will want to get on the jury.
CHUNG: I see. Gotcha. Thank you, Jeffrey Toobin.
Still ahead: the head of ImClone, the stock Martha Stewart sold, what he admitted to in court today.
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up: Tom Arnold on turning his life around.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM ARNOLD, ACTOR: You don't care about yourself when you're on drugs. And I was doing a bunch of cocaine every day. And I hated myself. But I thought, I'm losing her. I'm losing my job. People are going to hate me. I got to get back into rehab.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The lessons he's learned when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: The nation's No. 1 movie this weekend was "Cradle 2 the Grave," an action flick teaming Jet Li and DMX. But it is not just buff guys hitting each other and jumping around. It has also got a paunchy guy, Tom Arnold, making wisecracks, even joking when he has to explain how he let steal DMX's Jewels.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "CRADLE 2 THE GRAVE")
ARNOLD: Wait a minute. How am I going to tell them Tony where the stones are if I'm dead or on life support, right? So I threw in the towel, reluctantly, for your sake.
DMX, ACTOR: OK, so you saved yourself to tell me something.
ARNOLD: Right.
DMX: So tell me.
ARNOLD: What?
DMX: Who was it?
ARNOLD: I don't know.
DMX: Well, what did they say?
ARNOLD: Well, they said, give me the stones, you fat cracker, that sort of thing.
DMX: That's it?
ARNOLD: That's pretty bad. Cracker is -- you know, it is kind of racist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Tom Arnold has made a career out of secondary roles ever since his marriage to Roseanne. Now in his new book, "How I Lost Five Pounds in Six Years," he spills the secrets of his semi-success.
And he spilled the beans from behind the scenes in his career when he sat down with me for a rather surprisingly personal interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Tom Arnold, thanks so much for being with us.
ARNOLD: Thank you very much. And I want to apologize for my dress. I didn't realize we would be on the couch and I dressed more like for Maury's show. So, I would have wore a suit and everything. I apologize.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: Hey.
I love the title of your book, "How I Lost Five Pounds in Six Years." Very funny.
ARNOLD: Thank you.
And they said, you have to have a title of something great that you've done. And I looked at my pictures of my life and I thought, well, I have lost five pounds in six years. That's the best I've done.
CHUNG: But you know what? I have to tell you, I was a little shocked when -- discovering all these things about your family, all right?
I'd like you to give me one sentence on each member of your family, including your mother, who abandoned you, and your stepmother and your father and your six siblings, brothers and sisters, OK?
ARNOLD: Right.
CHUNG: Go.
ARNOLD: My father was a very good father. He's sort of a passive man. He stuck with us kids when my mother left us when I was 4. He raised us. He loved myself, my brothers and sisters, my stepbrother and sister, my half brothers, everybody the same. That was a great lesson to learn from him.
CHUNG: And your mother was an alcoholic.
ARNOLD: My mother was an alcoholic, married seven times. She passed away from what she had done to herself when she was 50.
CHUNG: Did you ever reconnect?
ARNOLD: We didn't reconnect. We weren't speaking at the end of her life.
CHUNG: OK. You have a sister who is currently in prison for drug dealing.
ARNOLD: Yes. Drug dealing, interstate criminal enterprise. Lori (ph) is in Iowa in federal prison. She went to prison for 10 years in the '90s and got out for a year, supposedly had her life turned around, and went back to dealing crystal meth. And now she's in for 17, 18 more years.
CHUNG: All right. A brother who lost a loved one.
ARNOLD: Yes, my brother, my gay brother, Chris. His first -- he came out of the closet, so to speak -- I always suspected he was gay. And I work in Hollywood. So I said, just tell me. I have a lot of gay friends.
And so I met this guy and they were really in love. And, unfortunately, the guy had some sort of a seizure and was taking a shower and hit his hid and drowned in his own bathtub. And my brother found him. And it was quite sad, because that was really his first love.
CHUNG: A brother you don't speak to.
ARNOLD: Yes, Scott (ph). I haven't heard from Scott since I loaned him money to buy a car.
CHUNG: OK. There was one sister that you didn't describe.
ARNOLD: Well, Marla (ph)...
CHUNG: She couldn't possibly be normal, could she?
ARNOLD: No.
CHUNG: OK.
ARNOLD: Well, she's as normal as they get.
CHUNG: All right.
ARNOLD: She's a school teacher in Kansas City, an inner city schoolteacher. She does a good job. I'm pretty proud of her.
CHUNG: There you go. You married Roseanne, of course.
ARNOLD: Yes, I did.
CHUNG: Tom Arnold, some people think, well, he just married her because she was famous. He wanted to capitalize on her fame.
ARNOLD: Right. Boy, there has got to be an easier way to get famous than that.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: And one word to describe that marriage to Roseanne? It was?
ARNOLD: It was -- you gotta -- I would say tumultuous, but also passionate and kind of great, especially in the beginning. So it just went askew. We were too -- it was too different.
CHUNG: But Roseanne actually helped you with drugs and alcohol.
ARNOLD: Yes, she did. And in the book, I have a lot of gratitude for Roseanne. And I don't know that I would have gotten sober if it hadn't been for her, because you need to feel you're losing something. You need to care about something, because you don't care about yourself when you're on drugs. And I was doing a bunch of cocaine every day. And I hated myself. But I thought, I'm losing her. I'm losing my job. People are going to hate me. I got to get back into rehab.
And the thing that save is, on the eighth day in rehab, I started feeling physiologically better. And every other time I felt like that, I would call my drug dealer. Come on over to the house, because I didn't want to feel good for some reason. I thought, maybe I deserve to feel good. So, for last 13 1/2 years, every day, I've been sober for myself. And that's what does it.
CHUNG: Good for you.
ARNOLD: Thank you. CHUNG: No, I just want to shake your hand. Keep going.
ARNOLD: All right.
CHUNG: No, really, that's great. Good for you.
ARNOLD: Well, yes.
CHUNG: So now you have a great marriage with Shelby.
ARNOLD: I do. I love it. She's disappointed, but I love it. And I know...
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: She is not.
ARNOLD: Well, listen, the wedding last summer was tremendous. You know the wedding and it is all exciting. And then starts the marriage part.
It would be bad if I was sad that she was disappointed, but I understand you go through a period of time, like four or five years, where you're disappointed.
CHUNG: She is not. Stop it. She's not disappointed. No, no, she loves you.
ARNOLD: Oh, she does love me. There's no doubt about it.
CHUNG: Right. And you're going have kids?
ARNOLD: Yes, we are. Yes.
CHUNG: OK, I want to read you just a couple of things that you said about her, OK?
ARNOLD: OK.
CHUNG: That you want -- these are things -- yes, these are the things you want for your wife.
ARNOLD: Oh, want for her, yes.
CHUNG: These are the things you want for your life: that her life revolves around your schedule. "And her response to my request is, 'Whatever you need, honey.' And she means it." Oh, boy.
ARNOLD: That's what I want, but it is not what I need. Now, there is a second list of what I need, which are a lot more simple, which are, say a couple of kind words at my funeral, things like that.
CHUNG: Right. And, "She'll rub my head 20 percent as much as she does the dog's."
ARNOLD: Right. CHUNG: That's nice.
ARNOLD: Yes, that is nice.
CHUNG: You got a movie, "Cradle 2 the Grave." Got a book.
ARNOLD: Yes.
CHUNG: Sports show.
ARNOLD: Sports show.
CHUNG: Marriage.
ARNOLD: Marriage.
CHUNG: You're good.
ARNOLD: I got it all. Just get a little baby in there and I'm all set.
CHUNG: You go.
ARNOLD: Thank you.
CHUNG: OK. Thanks, Tom Arnold.
ARNOLD: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: When we come back: Is NBC afraid of what President Bartlet -- that is, Martin Sheen -- thinks about war with Iraq?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: He's already pleaded guilty to insider trading. Now Martha Stewart's friend Sam Waksal, the founder of ImClone, has pleaded guilty to conspiracy and fraud. He admitted he avoided paying more than $1 million in taxes on art purchases. ImClone is the stock Stewart was investigated for selling after suspicions arose that Waksal gave her inside information.
If you wanted to see the judicial system in action in another case, the case of accused Washington sniper Lee Boyd Malvo, you're out of luck. Tonight's "Snapshot" explains why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG (voice-over): There will be no TV cameras in the courtroom for the trial of D.C.-area sniper suspect Lee Boyd Malvo. A Virginia judge rejected the media request today, but will allow a closed- circuit broadcast for extra reporters and victims' families. Actor Martin Sheen says his anti-war position has NBC executives worried about ratings. Sheen says the executives have made clear their concerns that his opposition to war with Iraq might hurt his popular program, "The West Wing." NBC denies it.
The world's top golfer wants to play it safe at home. Tiger Woods has pulled out of next week's Dubai Desert Classic, citing security reasons and possible war with Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: our "Person of the Day," a smile on his face.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: "TIME" magazine, which is owned by CNN's parent company, is celebrating an anniversary, 80 years, to be exact. To mark the occasion, CNN and "TIME" are teaming up this month to bring you some of the 80 events that shaped our world in the 80 years "TIME" has been publishing.
November 22nd, 1963, is one of the 80 days that changed the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JACK VALENTI, FORMER KENNEDY WHITE HOUSE SPECIAL ASSISTANT: I got into the motorcade six cars back of the president. And we passed an undistinguished building that later I found was a Texas schoolbook depository. I did not hear shots, but the car in front of us went from eight miles an hour to 80 like he was on the Indianapolis speedway.
NELLIE CONNALLY, WIDOW OF GOVERNOR JOHN B. CONNALLY: I remember all three shots. The president took the first. Hit his hands flew up to his neck. And I had turned back when I heard the noise and saw him slumped down in the chair. The second shot hit John Connally. While I had John in my lap, I heard the third shot, the shot that got the president's head.
VALENTI: No president had been assassinated in this country since 1901. That this gallant, urbane and witty and very popular president was, in a senseless act of mindless malice, had an overpowering effect on the country.
CONNALLY: He brought to this country youth and vigor and something that we all yearned for: hope.
VALENTI: Anybody over the age of, say, 6 or 7 at that time can today tell you exactly where they were when they heard the news. One reason why Johnson wanted a photograph taken of his swearing-in was that he wanted that picture flashed around the world to show that, in America, the Constitution works and the nation goes on. (END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Tonight: a guy who has been declared the happiest man in America. He's our "Person of the Day."
J.P. Godsey, who answers to Gus, was picked by "USA Weekend" magazine as the happiest man in America. The magazine first identified the happiest place, Virginia Beach, Virginia, based on things such as public safety and cost of living. And then the magazine looked for a man, claiming women experience higher highs and lower lows. They factored in other elements such as marriage and a steady job, health and finances.
Throw in an eat-in kitchen, a deck and a home office and everything pointed to Gus, who joins us now with his wife, Judy.
Hey. Thank you so much for joining us.
J.P. GODSEY, SELECTED AS HAPPIEST PERSON IN AMERICA: Thank you.
CHUNG: All right, well, were you just born this way?
J.P. GODSEY: Boy, that's a tough question.
A lot of it has to do with genes. We had a great upbringing, even though we were very poor when I grew up. We bought 12-day-old loafs of day-old bread for a dollar and took them home and froze them. But my mom really put strong values into us. And I always like to say, the three things she taught me was, you might not be able to always afford the nicest clothes, but you can keep your fingernails dirty -- clean.
(LAUGHTER)
J.P. GODSEY: Keep your fingernails cleaned, keep your boots shined, and, son, always remember that good manners never, ever go out of style.
CHUNG: That's wonderful.
J.P. GODSEY: So that means a lot to us.
CHUNG: So the glass was always half full, not half empty for you.
J.P. GODSEY: Always. Still is, because those are choices that we make in life.
And who wouldn't be happy? I live in the best city in the United States, Virginia Beach. I'm married to this lovely, wonderful woman beside me for many years. And you take all that into account and the good lord pointed his finger to my side of the field.
CHUNG: But doesn't anything, like, really annoy you? J.P. GODSEY: Only two times do I ever really get upset, where I fight with my spouse or family. And we make those things up pretty quick. We don't stay mad long. In fact, if a fight ever gets bad, we have a code word called bulldog. And that means the fight stops right then until tempers calm down and then we take care of it. And, of course, sometimes finances at my job. Let's face it. I'm a broker.
CHUNG: A stockbroker!
J.P. GODSEY: We eat a lot more beans and cornbread now than we did three years ago.
CHUNG: sure.
J.P. GODSEY: But we count our blessings. We still have milk and hamburger in the freezer. And those things are a lot more than a lot of people are blessed with.
CHUNG: Judy, just one quick question.
JUDITH GODSEY, WIFE OF J.P.: Sure.
CHUNG: Doesn't he get annoying being happy so much?
JUDITH GODSEY: I would have to say the time he gets annoying is in the mornings, because I'm not a morning person.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: I hear you. Oh, man.
JUDITH GODSEY: Give me a couple of cups of coffee and I'm there with him.
CHUNG: OK. Gotcha.
Thank you.
J.P. GODSEY: Thank you.
CHUNG: So I can call you up anytime I'm depressed?
J.P. GODSEY: Anytime. You call me. We would love to talk to you. We would love to have you come down and we'll give you some more pasta sauce.
CHUNG: Perfect. Yes. I love it. I'm going to try it. They made this, everybody.
OK, thank you.
J.P. GODSEY: It's been great. Thank you.
CHUNG: Thank you so much for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and we'll see you tomorrow.
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