Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Today
Discussion of Arrest of Accused Al Qaeda Leader
Aired March 03, 2003 - 10:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Throughout the morning and throughout the weekend, we've been reporting on the arrest of the accused Al Qaeda leader and the race to learn what he knows. For a closer look at the interrogation and the possible techniques that will be used, we turn now to our execute security analyst Kelly McCann, who joins us from our Washington bureau.
Good to see you, Kelly.
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Leon.
HARRIS: Let me ask you, first off, a question that came up earlier this morning. Do you think it might have been a mistake to announce the arrest so publicly, and which may have tipped off some of the other cells that may be easy to uncover now that you have gotten Sheikh Mohammed and his computers?
MCCANN: Perhaps. Sometimes what's conducted is called an "exciter mission," and basically that's when you release kind of critical information that might excite a network where we are posed to look at signals intelligence that might erupt from the disclosure. So I think that in this war on terrorism, nothing is being done happenstance.
HARRIS: Well, now that they've got him, let's talk about, how do you get information out of a guy like this? He is the most senior person captured, so therefore, considering how valuable the information he's got, I got think he must be one of the toughest minds these intelligence people are ever going to have to crack.
MCCANN: A couple of things. You know, talking to my contacts, of course, they labeled him as brilliant, similar to like Zabaydah, et cetera, these guys are not stupid men. However, the thing that makes people very dangerous are people that have nothing to lose or don't care, and they've also been described, those people, in that don't care kind of way, meaning that They don't care whether they're incarcerated, they don't care about their personal discomfort.
However, it is human nature over time when confronted with sleep depravation, when confronted with physical discomfort, when asked the same question over and over and over again, but different ways, and then bouncing that against vetted information and the use of control questions, that undoubtedly, there will be some information we'll gain from him.
HARRIS: All right, let's talk about the last two on this list, drugs and the use of torture, the use of some kind of force. Considering the stakes here, are those two techniques totally off the table and out of the mix here?
MCCANN: They are not current techniques. And even when I was a Marine captain, we had Admiral Stockdale talk us to about the use of torture. He said I could reduce anybody here to tears within a couple of minutes. The problem with the use of torture is if you don't get any information, you've actually empowered the person you're interrogating, and if you do get information from him, did he tell you that just to get to you stop torturing him, similar to like Stockdale encountered in Vietnam?
So typically that's not what is used. But discomfort, standing for very long periods of time, sleep deprivation, that is in use, and it is the most humane way to get information, without crossing the line into torture.
HARRIS: And you could also, could you not, insinuate a threat, sending them to a country where they would use torture?
MCCANN: Absolutely, and other countries more likely to include other family members. You might say, I'm in this war for myself, but leave my family out of it. Other countries might not be willing to let you leave those family members out of it.
HARRIS: Considering what they may have to do then, how confident do you think we can be in any kind of information that actually does come out of him?
MCCANN: Well, this arrest comes at a great time, and the reason it comes at a great time, is because we've got a body of information we didn't have initially that we've been able to they get from detainees in Guantanamo and other detainees, and we've actually been able to test the veracity of that information. That will allow the interrogators to design control questions, and those control questions, asked over time, will let us, you know, discern what is being truthfully said and what is not being truthfully said quicker, which will allow interrogation process to be done more quickly.
So I think we're in a much better position now than we were say four or five months ago?
HARRIS: Time now for the bonus question, does this mean that we may be a step closer to getting Osama bin Laden?
MCCANN: That would be the bonus question, wouldn't it, Leon? I think that any step where we get a senior leader puts us that much closer to Osama bin Laden. Him being more symbolic against this war on terrorism than actually functional. The one we would like to see as much as Osama bin Laden is Zawahiri.
HARRIS: Yes, exactly. Thanks, Kelly. Good to see you. Take care.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 3, 2003 - 10:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Throughout the morning and throughout the weekend, we've been reporting on the arrest of the accused Al Qaeda leader and the race to learn what he knows. For a closer look at the interrogation and the possible techniques that will be used, we turn now to our execute security analyst Kelly McCann, who joins us from our Washington bureau.
Good to see you, Kelly.
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Leon.
HARRIS: Let me ask you, first off, a question that came up earlier this morning. Do you think it might have been a mistake to announce the arrest so publicly, and which may have tipped off some of the other cells that may be easy to uncover now that you have gotten Sheikh Mohammed and his computers?
MCCANN: Perhaps. Sometimes what's conducted is called an "exciter mission," and basically that's when you release kind of critical information that might excite a network where we are posed to look at signals intelligence that might erupt from the disclosure. So I think that in this war on terrorism, nothing is being done happenstance.
HARRIS: Well, now that they've got him, let's talk about, how do you get information out of a guy like this? He is the most senior person captured, so therefore, considering how valuable the information he's got, I got think he must be one of the toughest minds these intelligence people are ever going to have to crack.
MCCANN: A couple of things. You know, talking to my contacts, of course, they labeled him as brilliant, similar to like Zabaydah, et cetera, these guys are not stupid men. However, the thing that makes people very dangerous are people that have nothing to lose or don't care, and they've also been described, those people, in that don't care kind of way, meaning that They don't care whether they're incarcerated, they don't care about their personal discomfort.
However, it is human nature over time when confronted with sleep depravation, when confronted with physical discomfort, when asked the same question over and over and over again, but different ways, and then bouncing that against vetted information and the use of control questions, that undoubtedly, there will be some information we'll gain from him.
HARRIS: All right, let's talk about the last two on this list, drugs and the use of torture, the use of some kind of force. Considering the stakes here, are those two techniques totally off the table and out of the mix here?
MCCANN: They are not current techniques. And even when I was a Marine captain, we had Admiral Stockdale talk us to about the use of torture. He said I could reduce anybody here to tears within a couple of minutes. The problem with the use of torture is if you don't get any information, you've actually empowered the person you're interrogating, and if you do get information from him, did he tell you that just to get to you stop torturing him, similar to like Stockdale encountered in Vietnam?
So typically that's not what is used. But discomfort, standing for very long periods of time, sleep deprivation, that is in use, and it is the most humane way to get information, without crossing the line into torture.
HARRIS: And you could also, could you not, insinuate a threat, sending them to a country where they would use torture?
MCCANN: Absolutely, and other countries more likely to include other family members. You might say, I'm in this war for myself, but leave my family out of it. Other countries might not be willing to let you leave those family members out of it.
HARRIS: Considering what they may have to do then, how confident do you think we can be in any kind of information that actually does come out of him?
MCCANN: Well, this arrest comes at a great time, and the reason it comes at a great time, is because we've got a body of information we didn't have initially that we've been able to they get from detainees in Guantanamo and other detainees, and we've actually been able to test the veracity of that information. That will allow the interrogators to design control questions, and those control questions, asked over time, will let us, you know, discern what is being truthfully said and what is not being truthfully said quicker, which will allow interrogation process to be done more quickly.
So I think we're in a much better position now than we were say four or five months ago?
HARRIS: Time now for the bonus question, does this mean that we may be a step closer to getting Osama bin Laden?
MCCANN: That would be the bonus question, wouldn't it, Leon? I think that any step where we get a senior leader puts us that much closer to Osama bin Laden. Him being more symbolic against this war on terrorism than actually functional. The one we would like to see as much as Osama bin Laden is Zawahiri.
HARRIS: Yes, exactly. Thanks, Kelly. Good to see you. Take care.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
