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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
Powell: Time Running Out For Hussein
Aired March 4, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, ANCHOR: Good evening.
Secretary of State Colin Powell says time is running out for Saddam Hussein. Tonight, there are still plans to seek another U.N. resolution backing the use of force against Iraq. The immediate difficulty, winning enough votes to pass the resolution and to avoid a veto.
Richard Roth is at the United Nations with more on the story -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the United States would love to have nine votes in favor of this resolution, but publicly they don't have it so far, and there's the threat still of a veto by Russia or France, even if it's just talk for now.
(voice-over): This afternoon in New York, a lunch, a monthly lunch by the members of the Security Council. And you'll see here how some of them are discussing it in private, even. There's a lot of stress on these diplomats.
At the lunch, Secretary General Annan appealed for all divisions, all sides in the Council to try to reach some type of resolution. Earlier, U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte said it's too soon for Washington to pull the resolution off the table if it faced a veto.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN NEGROPONTE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We haven't crossed that bridge. We're at a state now where we're in the process of working with the co-sponsors, of trying to mobilize the necessary support for that resolution and we believe that support should be there and we are not facing that kind of situation and I think we'll cross that bridge if and when we come to it. But we don't think we should have to come to that point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH (voice-over): No matter what opinion, they will all be at the Council looking at Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector, here meeting today with European parliamentarians. But Dr. Blix will deliver an update on his written report of a few days ago, in which he said Iraq could do more to cooperate, because now Iraq has started cooperating by dismantling some of those al-Samoud 2 missiles. Secretary General Kofi Annan called the dismantling by Iraq a positive development and he said the U.N. will still be standing no matter what the U.S. does with the Council or on its own.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY GENERAL: To state that if the Council does not vote one way it is going to go the way of the League of Nations is overstating the case. I think the Council and the U.N. will not go the way of the League of Nations and I think the historical comparisons are not as simple as it appears.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH (on camera): And there may not be just the Blix report on Friday, Lou. We're expecting foreign ministers, including those from France and Spain and Germany to be here. And the last time that happened, when Colin Powell was here, verbal shootout, the differences in public, out in the open, the big divide in the Council chamber, not the atmosphere to kind of reach some sort of agreement or resolution on a new resolution -- Lou.
DOBBS: Richard, thank you very much.
Richard Roth live at the U.N.
Whatever happens at the United Nations, the United States is considering whether to issue a final ultimatum to Saddam Hussein. Officials say an ultimatum would serve as a public warning that war is imminent. Pentagon sources also say the United States has just about abandoned the option of deploying troops now to Turkey.
To bring us up to date, senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre with the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After weeks of hoping that Turkey would allow some 62,000 U.S. troops to use its bases, the Pentagon has basically given up, sources say. Because the decision was the result of the democratic process and by a NATO ally, the U.S. is not complaining too loudly.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Our military authorities have options that will still make it absolutely certain that we'll be able to perform this military mission in an efficient, effective way and achieve our objectives.
MCINTYRE: In fact, Pentagon officials say the loss of Turkish bases means the war could come sooner, because there would be no need to wait several more weeks to unload transport ships and prepare Turkish facilities to receive U.S. troops.
Pentagon sources say the Army's Fourth Infantry Division, which is still at Fort Hood, Texas, may not be deployed, its role filled by the helicopter borne troops of the 101st Airborne Division now en route to Kuwait. And the ships carrying the Fourth IV's equipment may not be sent on the long trip through the Suez Canal and around to the Persian Gulf, where they would have to unload at already overcrowded ports in Kuwait. Instead, they could just be brought home.
With the arrival of another wave of B-52 bombers in England and the departure of big deck helicopter carriers for the region, sources say central commander General Tommy Franks will tell President Bush Wednesday, in what could be the final prewar briefing at the White House, that all is ready once he gives the order.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: So, how far off is war? Well, Lou, it appears that diplomacy still has at least a week or so to go. But the U.S. military says it's ready to go now -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jimmy, turning to also the issue of North Korea, what is approaching rapidly a crisis status, how is the Pentagon now responding to the interception of the U.S. reconnaissance aircraft?
MCINTYRE: Well, the response so far has been rather low key. They've not, they haven't flown any more reconnaissance aircraft along that track, although the Pentagon makes the point that these RC-135 aircraft don't fly every day anyway. They are considering whether to use armed escorts, although sources say they're leaning against that because the U.S. believes strongly it shouldn't have to protect unarmed aircraft in international airspace.
And there is a deployment of 24 long range bombers going to the region, 12 B-52s and 12 B-1s to the island of Guam. But the U.S. says that was planned long before this incident. It's meant as a signal to North Korea that the U.S. has plenty of firepower in the region and that the North Korean government should not miscalculate that because the U.S. may be involved in military action in Iraq it's not just as capable of handling a contingency on the Korean Peninsula -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, as you say, as the Pentagon says, one would not expect that U.S. reconnaissance aircraft should need armed escorts. But after this provocation, the Pentagon doesn't consider it prudent or wise to provide escorts if they are to fly those reconnaissance aircraft?
MCINTYRE: Well, it is under consideration. As you will recall that in April of 2000, they also considered the same thing for aircraft flying along China after the EP-3 incident. But in that case, in the end they decided not to have armed escorts up and they tend to be leaning against it in this case, too.
The last time they had anything like it was in 1994 at a time of rising tension. They didn't have escorts for reconnaissance planes, but they had armed combat planes nearby that could quickly respond, and that may be an option that the U.S. goes with this time.
DOBBS: Jamie McIntyre, thank you.
Our senior Pentagon correspondent. Some Hollywood celebrities have been vocal in their opposition to any war with Iraq. But a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll finds most Americans couldn't care less about what those celebrities think. And now some people are asking celebrities to keep their opinions to themselves.
Kitty Pilgrim has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Celebrities have been lining up to play at foreign policy. Actors who play presidents on TV leading the anti-war charge. Another actor actually went to Iraq to talk to officials. Celebrities are showing up at rallies, making critical commercials and generally posing questions which seem, at best, naive.
SUSAN SARANDON: I need to know what did Iraq do to us?
PILGRIM: But some Americans are starting to say enough already. A recent CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll found more than 80 percent of Americans don't care what celebrities think, adding no entertainment personality could influence their opinion on political issues. Some people are so fed up with liberal celebrity grandstanding, they're fighting back. David Bossie and former U.S. Senator Fred Thompson, now star of "Law and Order," put together a rebuttal at dinner one night.
DAVID BOSSIE, PRESIDENT, CITIZENS UNITED: We were talking about our frustration about the liberals in Hollywood and really how they had, in a well orchestrated and well financed effort, really muddled the president's message about the policy on Iraq and the war on terror.
PILGRIM: The commercial released last week.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we afford to appease Saddam, kick the can down the road? Thank goodness we have a president with the courage to protect our country.
PILGRIM: One woman in North Carolina got so sick of hearing celebrities at anti-war rallies, she started a Web site. It's called Citizens Against Celebrity Pundits, an online petition. She says people are fed up.
LORI BARDSLEY, CITIZENS AGAINST CELEBRITY PUNDITS: They're just disgusted with the anti-American sentiment coming out of these rallies. I mean the celebrities are encouraging anti-American activism at these rallies.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: The Screen Actors Guild has come out with a statement saying they support full and open debate and no one in the public eye should suffer for their views. But today's poll might suggest people don't really care what those views are -- Lou. DOBBS: What prompted this SAG request for people not to think negatively or act negatively toward those celebrities?
PILGRIM: There was a worry that people would boycott products or whatever. But the Gallup poll today said that people aren't even paying attention.
DOBBS: All right, kitty, thank you very much.
Well, in the war against terror, Attorney General John Ashcroft today said the United States is winning the battle with al Qaeda. Ashcroft said the arrest of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in Pakistan could destabilize the entire al Qaeda network.
Homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed trumpeted by President Bush.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The man who masterminded the September the 11th attacks is no longer a problem to the United States of America.
MESERVE: Mohammed, in U.S. custody at an undisclosed location, is talking to authorities, but is not providing what U.S. officials consider useful information. Government sources say on his computer were hundreds of names. Intelligence officials now are trying to determine how many are al Qaeda operatives. Also on the computer, information about possible terrorist plots and references to the United States, though no blueprints, say sources.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: CIA and FBI are cooperating thoroughly to share information from the capture, analyze that intelligence and coordinate follow-up operations.
MESERVE: Apprehended with Mohammed in the raid in Rawalpindi, a second significant al Qaeda figure, say U.S. officials. Mustapha Ahmed al-Hawsawi is alleged to have supplied money to Mohamed Atta, the leader of the 9/11 hijackers, through bank accounts in the United Arab Emirates.
A February 13th raid in Quetta, Pakistan failed to net Mohammed, but U.S. officials say the son of Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman was apprehended. Rahman, the so-called blind cleric, is in jail for plotting to blow up U.S. landmarks.
Meanwhile, unsealed Tuesday, charges against two Yemeni men arrested in Frankfurt, Germany on January 10th. One of them is a Muslim cleric, Sheikh Mohammed Ali Hasan Al-Moayad.
ROSALYNN MADSKOPS, U.S. ATTORNEY: Al-Moayad met with bin Laden and provided over $20 million to al Qaeda.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MESERVE: Much of the money, says the Justice Department, raised at this Brooklyn mosque.
(on camera): U.S. officials say that since Mohammed was taken into custody, they have seen an increase in intelligence chatter. They are not sure what it signifies. It could be al Qaeda is planning a terrorist attack. It could be Mohammed's associates are discussing his arrest. Or it could be they are on the move to elude possible capture -- Lou?
DOBBS: Jeanne, thank you very much.
Jeanne Meserve reporting from Washington.
Still ahead here, a Southern Baptist missionary was among those killed in a bomb explosion that tore through an airport in the Philippines. America's top anti-terrorism officials today testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee. Senator Orrin Hatch chairs that committee and will join us to talk about the hearing and the Democratic opposition to the nomination of Miguel Estrada to the federal appellate court.
On Wall Street today, stocks fell, a triple digit loss, pushing the Dow, in fact, to its lowest closing level in five months. Christine Robbins will join me with the market. Also tonight, President Bush campaigns for his $400 billion Medicare reform plan. We'll be joined by Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In news around the world tonight, an Ebola virus outbreak in the Congo is worsening. More than 100 cases have been reported since the beginning of the year. Ninety people have died. Several organizations and governments are frantically trying to contain the outbreak.
Two businessmen living in Taiwan have been indicted on charges of trying to buy U.S. weapons for Iran. One of those men, Eric Chang, is a naturalized U.S. citizen. The other suspect in the case, David Chu, was arrested during a sting operation in Guam.
A powerful bomb exploded at a Philippines airport today. Twenty- one people were killed, one of those an American missionary. Nearly 150 other people were injured, including three Americans in the terrorist attack.
In this country, Senate Republicans have raised the stakes in the battle over one of the president's prized judicial nominees. GOP senators will force a vote this Thursday on ending a Democratic filibuster against Miguel Estrada.
Here now to talk about that development, the weekend arrest of the leading al Qaeda figure, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, is the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Senator Orrin Hatch. Senator, good to have you with us.
SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R-UT), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Nice to be with you.
DOBBS: In the hearings this morning following the arrests over the weekend, your assessment of the progress now against al Qaeda.
HATCH: Well, I think we're doing very, very well. We've caught a lot of these people. You don't hear about all the successes that the FBI and the Justice Department and the Homeland Security Department have worked on and they're accomplished.
But Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is a particular illustration of somebody who is an amazingly wonderful catch because he was apparently the main perpetrator and operator for the al Qaeda people. And that's a big, big thing and they've done a terrific job in getting him.
But he's just one of many that they've been able to capture. They've got about a third to 40 percent of the top al Qaeda leadership and I just commend our FBI, I commend our Justice Department, the homeland security people, and, of course, our CIA and other people throughout the world. They're doing a great job.
DOBBS: Obviously a success over the weekend. Nonetheless, still criticism of the way in which those departments, and particularly the FBI and the CIA, are functioning. Do you think that criticism at this point is well placed?
HATCH: Well, I think criticism is important because it helps us to always keep on our toes and to do what should be done. And so I don't think the FBI or others reject the criticism. But I think it can get too critical. You know, if you expect perfection, I don't know anybody who's perfect. And I have to say this, Director Mueller has done a terrific job at the FBI. You know, he inherited a terrible situation because he was put in just shortly before 9/11 and he has done a terrific job ever since.
Now, has it been perfect? Nobody does a perfect job. But he comes pretty close.
DOBBS: You personally, Senator, are satisfied with the reforms that he's put in place at the FBI?
HATCH: I am. I do think there's more reform. For instance, he mentioned today, they've come a long way towards becoming the high tech FBI that they need to be. Before he got there, I know Louis Freeh had tried to move them in that direction, but literally the Congress hadn't given the money, hadn't given the help to get it done.
But since Mueller has been there, they really have -- and I think Louis Freeh set the stage, but Mueller has really carried that out and I believe within a very short period of time we're going to be completely up and running in the most high tech world possible.
DOBBS: Senator, if I may turn to the filibuster of Miguel Estrada, the president's preference to sit on the federal appellate court, a filibuster by the Democrats.
Do you believe you'll be able to break that filibuster?
HATCH: Well, we filed cloture today. The majority leader filed cloture today. We'll have a cloture vote on Thursday. That's just the beginning of this battle in the real sense because, you know, Democrats have been claiming they haven't been filibustering, although we've been on this nomination for a month now tomorrow.
Four solid weeks that they've used a double standard with regard to the first Hispanic nominee to the Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia in history, the first one. This is the first true filibuster.
So we'll have a vote. We'll know exactly who the obstructionists are, who are the people who don't want to be fair. And, you know, the constitution provides that we should advise and consent. That means a 51 vote margin. It means a majority vote. What they're doing is raising the stakes and decreasing the power of the presidency, the power of the judiciary by requiring a simple majority vote of 60 people. We'll see what happens Thursday. They claim that they're going to keep filibustering Estrada. I think it's an abysmal state of affairs and I'm really sorry to see them doing that. It's just awful.
DOBBS: With the cloture, this officially becomes a filibuster. You need 60 votes.
HATCH: That's right.
DOBBS: Where do we go? Do we, is it the Republican strategy here to focus on those principal opponents of his nomination or is it your judgment that you can eventually win this?
HATCH: Well, we already have 55 senators who are willing to vote for Estrada. That means that if he is treated like every other nominee in history has been treated, except for the one filibuster back in 1968 against Justice Fordiss (ph), which was a bipartisan filibuster, but if he's treated like every other Circuit Court of Appeals nominee and every other District Court nominee in history, we should be able to break the filibuster. And he ought to get a majority vote up and down.
But the Democrats don't think that they're being hurt at all by filibustering the first nominee in history. And I think they're going to get hurt very badly. I think it's a very bad strategy. Their strategy is not just to obstruct this nominee, but also by obstructing this nominee let the president know that they're not going to accept a conservative on the Supreme Court and they're also delaying all of the president's work as much as they can, I think, in the hope that they can make him out to be a bad president and then they can win the presidency in 2004.
Obstruction has never worked. It shouldn't work now. And I think the American people are going to catch onto it and they're going to get very, very upset. I hope the Hispanic people realize that there's a double standard here being applied to this Hispanic nominee, who has the unanimous well qualified, highest rating of the American Bar Association, is eminently well qualified, argued 15 cases before the Supreme Court, even though he has a disability, a speech impediment, has risen to the top of the appellate bar in this country and is being treated just like dirt by the Democrats.
DOBBS: Senator Orrin Hatch, thank you for being here, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
HATCH: Nice to be with you.
DOBBS: Still ahead, war protests have returned to college campuses in this country, but this time with a twist. Bill Tucker has the report tonight -- Bill.
BILL TUCKER, CO-HOST: Lou, this one has shades of South Africa, but this time the students are taking a stand against companies that do business with terrorists -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thanks, Bill.
Tonight, a British citizen could be facing manslaughter charges after an unusual skiing death. We'll have that story. And the Screaming Eagles have arrived in Kuwait. We'll have a report on their journey from the United States.
A great deal more still ahead.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Trading stories across America tonight, doctors say the condition of three young boys who spent more than 15 hours on a frigid mountainside, those young boys, their condition is improving. Their aged two, five and 10. They survived a plane crash Sunday night that killed four other members of their family, including their parents.
An unusual death in Breckenridge, Colorado. Thirty-one-year-old Robert Wills ran into another skier on the slopes, knocked him into a tree and he was killed. Wills, a British citizen on vacation, could face manslaughter charges.
Mardis Gras partiers hit the streets of New Orleans today, despite the cold, wet weather. Crowds celebrated the final day of Mardi Gras.
And as the United States fights the war against radical Islamists, the citizens of this country are using other tactics to fight terror. People are demanding that U.S. companies reveal their ties to any countries that sponsor terrorism and now a growing number of college studs want their schools to divest any holdings in those companies that do business with terrorists.
Bill Tucker has the report for us from Villanova University.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TUCKER (voice-over): This is not your usual college protester. Conservative is not a word he or his fellow protesters shy away from. On February 25th, letters like this one sent to the president of Duke, were also sent to the presidents of Villanova, Bucknell, University of Texas, North Carolina State and Oklahoma State University, with this simple demand.
MATT BALDWIN, STUDENT, DUKE UNIVERSITY: Look, we know that there are 400 publicly traded companies that have corporate ties to governments that sponsor terrorism. We know that Duke is holding at least several dozen of these and, you know, we don't feel that this represents the moral compass at Duke. And so that's why we're asking for immediate divestment.
TUCKER: It's not that simple, respond the administrators. Ever since the drive to divest in South Africa, colleges are used to getting multiple demands to divest for a variety of reasons. And it's changed the way colleges invest. Inserting language into their charter to forbid social or political reasons from entering into an investment decision and diversifying holdings.
TALLMAN TRASK, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, DUKE UNIVERSITY: Twenty years ago, most universities owned equity positions that were easily identifiable. Eighty percent of our money now is either in funds of funds or private capital or absolute return hedge strategies, where the question is much more complicated to sort out. Only about 20 percent of our money is actually in identifiable stocks.
TUCKER: College fund managers are not unsympathetic. Not one of them wants to be investing in terrorism and none believe that they are, which points out a difference between the divestment movement at the state level and at the college level. At the state level, the drive is towards disclosure.
BRIAN KENNEDY, CLAREMONT INSTITUTE: We think that transparency in disclosure is a carrot and stick approach, so that these corporations will, one, disclose what they're doing and because there is public scrutiny of what they're doing, probably they will change their behavior.
TUCKER (on camera): There is a significant amount of money involved. The endowment at Duke alone is $3 billion. The endowment here at Villanova University is $175 million. And the response from Villanova has been fairly typical. They've asked the students to provide a list of the companies they find objectionable and their reasons why -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill, thank you very much.
Bill Tucker reporting tonight from Villanova University.
Still ahead, making prescription drug coverage a part of Medicare. President Bush today released his plan to do just that and reign in what he calls runaway health care costs. Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson is our guest. Also, the sunny tax shelter of Bermuda, the official home of Tyco International, among others. But today, a group of union and government officials and institutional investors combined to call on the conglomerate to come back home to the United States and bring their tax dollars with them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tyco, like all these other expatriates, when it comes down to it, if their assets are under threat, if there's a threat to this country, they're not going to be turning to the Bermuda Army to defend them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Peter Viles will have that special report on the challenge for Tyco and other companies in their offshore havens. That story and a great deal more still ahead.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE continues; here again, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: These are the top stories we're following this evening.
The Pentagon today ordered 24 long-range bombers to an air base in Guam. Pentagon officials say the deployment is intended to send North Korea a clear signal that the United States is not distracted by Iraq. Former Defense Secretary, MONEYLINE regular contributor William Cohen will be here to assess the U.S. strategy on the Korean Peninsula.
Attorney General John Ashcroft today told Congress the United States is winning the war on terror. He said the arrest of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in Pakistan could destabilize the entire al Qaeda terrorist network.
Secretary of State Colin Powell says time is running out for Saddam Hussein. There are still plans on the part of the White House to seek another U.N. resolution backing the use of force against Iraq, if the president should decide. But senior U.S. officials say those plans could be abandoned if it is clear that a resolution would be defeated.
And that brings us to the topic of tonight's MONEYLINE poll. The question: Who should decide when a war against Iraq begins, the United Nations, the United States, or perhaps France and Germany? Cast your vote at CNN.com/MONEYLINE. We'll have the preliminary results for you later in the broadcast.
President Bush today detailed his plan to use free-market competition to help reform Medicare. The plan would encourage Medicare recipients to switch to subsidized private insurance plans. It would add long-awaited prescription drug coverage to Medicare. White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush is taking on one of the most controversial domestic endeavors: overhauling the country's health care system for the elderly. Before the American Medical Association, he proposed a plan to reform Medicare by offering seniors the option to enroll in private and managed care programs, believing it can better contain the cost of Medicare.
BUSH: Our vision, our goal is a system in which all Americans have got a good insurance policy, in which all Americans can choose their own doctor, in which seniors and low-income citizens receive the help they need.
MALVEAUX: The options for seniors include traditional Medicare with a discount on prescription drugs, enhanced Medicare, which would provide the same benefits as those offered to Congress and federal employees, and private managed care, including HMOs. The choices with private providers have a subsidized drug benefit.
But critics, mainly Democrats, say the proposal unfairly pushes seniors into managed care programs, which may provide inferior coverage.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: They're going to force seniors to give up the doctor they choose for the drugs they need. That is a false choice.
MALVEAUX: Last year, after Congress failed to pass Medicare reform, including a prescription drug benefit, Mr. Bush vowed to make it the centerpiece of his domestic agenda. But Republican lawmakers complained that a detailed White House proposal would be rejected by Democrats and doomed for failure, damaging the Republicans in the end.
So, in a major concession to the GOP, Mr. Bush did not propose a specific White House bill, instead leaving the details to the members of Congress.
SUSAN MOLINARI, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: The president has challenged Congress to meet him halfway in providing one of the most pressing solutions to senior citizens. And every senator and member of the House of Representatives that's concerned about their reelection will in fact do that.
MALVEAUX (on camera): There are 40 million enrolled in Medicare and that number is expected to double in the next 20 years. The big question is who is going to pay for it. The White House says it will take serious negotiations on the part of Democratic and Republican lawmakers. One senior administration official put it this way: "They just need to hold hands and jump off the cliff together."
Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Joining us now is the president's point man in the effort to reform Medicare: Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson, joining us tonight from Washington, D.C.
Mr. Secretary, good to have you here.
TOMMY THOMPSON, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: It's a pleasure, Lou. Thank you so very much.
DOBBS: An ambitious, politically volatile initiative on your part and that of the president, this plan meeting with -- roundly with criticism from the Democrats, only lukewarm reception from the leading retirement organization, the AARP.
How confident are you tonight that you're going to be able to move this plan through in close to its present form?
THOMPSON: Well, Lou, first off, I just would like to tell you that the president is passionate about it. He really wants to get a Medicare, strengthened proposal through Congress, one that's going to give seniors something every senior is asking about. And that's prescription drug coverage.
He's going to allow seniors to make choices, allow seniors to stay in their own program, the current fee-for-service system, with a drug coverage for those extraordinary expenditures. He's going to allow seniors to make a choice to go into a new enhanced system, one which every federal employee has and every federal employee, I think, pretty much appreciates. Congress does, the president. I do, members of my department, 65,000.
Or they can go into a Medicare plus choice, now called Medicare Advantage -- so plenty of choices and the things that seniors want. And I think, if Congress really wants to do something that they've been campaigning on for years, they will pass it. And that's what the president and I are hoping for.
DOBBS: The president's plan on Medicare reform offers the choice of all three options to any Medicare recipient; $400 billion, the estimated price tag, a staggering amount of money in this environment, as you well know, Mr. Secretary.
THOMPSON: It is a huge amount of money, and why put dollars into a system that needs some rejuvenation, some strengthening?
And that's what the president wants to do. He said, if we're going to put in prescription drug coverage, which he wants to do -- and he's passionate about it -- he wants to be able to make sure that we do some other things. He wants to have some preventative health care issues on diabetes and asthma and things for screening for seniors, which are so important to hold down costs and improve the quality of health.
They can do this in this new enhanced program that seniors are going to be able to have the benefit of. And something that I think, if Democrats really would stop and look at the fine details, they would say: This makes some sense. I have this program. Why shouldn't -- if it's good enough for me, why shouldn't it be good enough and be good for the seniors in my constituency?
And I hope that they look at it and what's in the best interests of the seniors. If they do, I'm fairly confident they'll pass the president's plan.
DOBBS: Mr. Secretary, Senator Tom Daschle stopped and looked at it and said it's forcing seniors -- the effect would be to force them to choose between Medicare and poor prescription drug benefits.
THOMPSON: I don't know how the majority leader, now the minority leader, in the Senate, can make that kind of accusation, because seniors can -- in South Dakota can remain in the current system, if they so desire, and they will get some drug benefits, or they can get into an enhanced drug benefit by going into this new system that he has and that his staff has in the Congress and in the Senate.
If it's good enough for Tom Daschle, why shouldn't seniors in the state of South Dakota be able to have the same kind of health care that he has? That's the question. And I think it's a good question. And I think, if he looks at it in that regard, he's going to come down on the side of his constituents, one in which the constituents are going to win in this regard and they're going to be able to make the choices.
Seniors want choices. And seniors are capable of having the right -- make the right decisions for themselves and their families. And that's why this program has so many advantages, because it gives seniors so many choices to benefit themselves.
DOBBS: Secretary Tommy Thompson, thanks for being here.
THOMPSON: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Coming up next: Israel is arming itself with Patriot missiles, preparing for a war it hopes it will not have to fight. Tensions between the United States and South Korea intensify, as the U.S. military sends 24 long-range bombers into the region.
Former Defense Secretary William Cohen will be here to discuss the number of crises facing this country.
Some of the latest forces to arrive in the Persian Gulf region are components of the 101st Airborne Division. We'll have a special report on their journey, from the bluegrass of Kentucky to the sands of Kuwait.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, Israel is preparing for the possibility of a U.S.-led war against Saddam Hussein. As part of its defense system, Israel is deploying Patriot anti- missile batteries around the country. The Patriots would be used to protect Israel from any Iraqi Scud missile attacks. During the Persian Gulf War in 1991, Israel was attacked with almost 40 Iraqi Scuds.
Iraq is not the only concern, of course, for the U.S. military. The situation with North Korea continues to deteriorate. As we reported, the United States has sent 24 long-range bombers tonight to the region as a clear warning to North Korea.
Here now to discuss the crisis with North Korea and the prospect of war with Saddam Hussein, the diplomatic hurdles this country faces in the U.N., the former defense secretary, regular MONEYLINE contributor, William Cohen.
Bill, good to be here -- good to have you here.
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Hi, Lou.
DOBBS: The fact of the matter is tonight, the president has dispatched 24 bombers, B-1s and B-52s to Guam. Do you think that's the correct response to the provocation?
COHEN: I think the president obviously had this very much in mind prior to this provocation to show that the United States does have the military muscle to be able to conduct a campaign on two major contingencies, should it be required to do so.
So, I think this was not necessarily tied to the provocation, but the timing may be such that the North Koreans will take this as a very significant warning not to continue to climb up that ladder of escalation. There's not much room at the top for much more climbing.
DOBBS: And that being the case, what's your best assessment as to what Kim Jong Il will do now?
COHEN: Well, it's hard to say.
He obviously is going to continue to try to exploit the focus that we currently have in Iraq to try to gain some advantage through this. But it's hard to predict what he would do. I think he'd be making a grave miscalculation were he ever to attack a reconnaissance aircraft. I think the signal the president will be sending, and not only by the new aircraft going to Guam, but through diplomatic channels, would be not to continue any sort of escalatory conduct in the future.
DOBBS: And the United States -- a clear choice facing the Pentagon tonight as well, whether to provide fighter escorts to reconnaissance aircraft when they are in the region or to suspend those reconnaissance flights. What do you think would be the appropriate signal?
COHEN: I don't think we should suspend the reconnaissance flights. Given North Korea's behavior in recent weeks and months, I think it's critically important that we continue to monitor, while flying in international airspace, so to speak, whatever activity is taking place, so that we can have advance warning of any sort of aggressive acts that the North Koreans might be contemplating.
So, no, do not suspend the flights, but also reserve the option of sending fighter aircraft. I think that decision has to be made on a day-by-day basis in terms of what else is taking place on the Korean Peninsula. But that certainly is an option that ought to be actively considered by the Pentagon.
DOBBS: Especially now, with those reconnaissance aircraft pilots potentially in some considerable jeopardy.
COHEN: Yes.
DOBBS: Turning to Iraq and the recent vote in Turkey declining the access to Turkish bases for U.S. troops, does the United States have a good second choice?
COHEN: Well, it certainly complicates the military planning for the United States. It allows Saddam to consider possibly having some heavy armored units move to the north and thereby complicate the U.S. posture.
It actually will complicate Turkey's position much more than that of the United States, however. And that is, with the potential for Saddam to cause havoc in the north, with a lot of refugees flowing toward Turkey, that could complicate their domestic situation quite dramatically. So, it will complicate the military planning, but I think the long-term consequences to Turkey are more severe. But it's certainly not a very good signal for Turkey to be sending to the United States at this point.
DOBBS: And, at this point, do you still believe that another resolution before the U.N. is necessary before the president makes his decision?
COHEN: I don't think it's legally required.
I think that, to extent that the president is able to get nine votes to present to the council, that would be an appropriate thing to do. If the president is convinced he doesn't have the votes, then I would not want to proceed with trying to make the point and then lose it. So, I think, legally speaking, the president has all the authority he needs. It would be desirable to try to get the Security Council to go on record in favor, however.
DOBBS: William Cohen, thanks for being here.
COHEN: My pleasure.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in our poll this evening. The question: Who should decide when a war against Iraq begins, the United Nations, the United States, or perhaps France and Germany? Cast your vote at CNN.com/MONEYLINE. We'll have the preliminary results coming up in a matter of moments. More than 250,000 U.S. troops have already been deployed to the Persian Gulf. Thousands more are on the way. Among the newest arrivals in the area are the Screaming Eagles, the 101st Airborne Division.
Ryan Chilcote reports on the journey of those troops from Kentucky to Kuwait.
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RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 101st airfield at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, departing almost hourly, civilian airliners carrying thousands of airborne soldiers. And keeping with protocol, those spouses have already said their goodbyes, but three on the edge of the airfield sneak a last peek.
Jessica, Ally (ph), and Brett (ph) are waving to Sergeant Eric Devona (ph). The sergeant got off a plane from Afghanistan just six months ago. Now he's bound for Kuwait.
JESSICA, WIFE OF U.S. SOLDIER: I would have been 10 feet away from my husband. If he could have gotten out of that line, I could have gave him a kiss through the fence.
CHILCOTE: Back in the hangar, soldiers catch a little sleep. For the last 24 hours, they've been saying their goodbyes.
For Private Christopher Ryker, it's not the goodbyes that bother him. It's the delayed hello.
PVT. CHRISTOPHER RYKER, U.S. ARMY: I've got a little daughter on the way and she's going to be born right before I get back. And we stay for six months.
CHILCOTE: Civilian airliner, military procedures, they check their own bags.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is how you're supposed to travel.
CHILCOTE: The assault rifles fit in the overhead or under the seat. Two hours in, over Manhattan, a quick view of the World Trade Center site. Some of the troops take sleeping pills. That takes care of Ryker for most of the flight, including the refueling stop in Germany.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Local time in Germany is 08:15.
CHILCOTE: Private First Class Ivan Fuentes, a machine gunner, not willing to miss even airline food.
PFC IVAN FUENTES, U.S. ARMY: Figure it's pretty long, but I guess all we've got to do is sleep and eat as much as we can before we don't get none of that.
CHILCOTE: A few soldiers even get a view of Egypt from the cockpit. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In about 120 miles, I think Luxor might have some pyramids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Welcome aboard.
CHILCOTE: Kat McMahon has been attending military flights like this ever since Vietnam. These guys, she says, are tough, these flights a cakewalk.
KAT MCMAHON, FLIGHT ATTENDANT: If you're out of something, they say: No problem. I'll take whatever you've got.
CHILCOTE: An hour before landing, Captain Tank, United's chief pilot on board, shares how he felt when he went to war.
CAPT. TANK, UNITED AIRLINES: And I pray, too, that, God willing, that we will not have to fight a war and, if we do, that it will be a short duration.
CHILCOTE: Just before landing, the orange juice and coffee get put away.
MCMAHON: Ladies and gentlemen, in just a few minutes, we'll be turning off all the lights on the airplane.
CHILCOTE: To minimize the possibility of a surface-to-air missile attack on the plane.
Safely down, the troops disembark at an airport in Kuwait. Then it's onto the buses to an in-country briefing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to talk to you guys about the Scud alert. If you hear someone sound off with lightning, lightning, lightning, of course, that is real world. You need to don your mask.
CHILCOTE: Four more hours in a convoy and the troops arrive at Camp New Jersey. Ryker is fully awake.
RYKER: I didn't think the sand was so fine. But it's cold. I thought it was hot all the time in the desert.
CHILCOTE: Two days and two sunrises later, they've made it from Kentucky to Kuwait.
Ryan Chilcote, CNN, with the 101st at Camp New Jersey, Kuwait.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next: labor officials, institutional investors say Tyco International leads to leave Bermuda and come on home.
Peter Viles is covering the story -- Peter.
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the accusation is that Tyco's behavior, in a word, is un-American. And now there's pressure on this old New England company to come back home -- Lou. DOBBS: Peter, thank you very much.
Also ahead: Warren Buffett has an annual message for his investors. It isn't complicated. It's compelling. And, to some, it may be concerning.
Stay with us.
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DOBBS: The oracle of Omaha has some simple advice for investors: Don't do it. Warren Buffett told Berkshire Hathaway shareholders in his annual letter that the company -- quote -- "continues to do little in equities" -- end quote. Buffett said, after the market's three- year slide, he still finds few stocks of even mild interest. Buffett also said he's concerned about derivatives, which he calls financial time bombs.
The Dow Jones industrials today closed at the lowest level in five months, stocks down across the board today, a triple-digit loss for the Dow.
Christine Romans has the market for us tonight.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Caterpillar, GM, 3M, these were the biggest losers today, dragging the market down.
Deutsche Bank cutting Ford and GM to a sell rating, Lou. Caterpillar said this year's sales will just match last year's. And two stocks fell for every stock that rose on the Big Board. But this big market sell-off came on sharply lower volume. Today's Big Board decline, Lou, came on 16 percent less volume than the same day last year. And two years ago, Big Board volume topped 1.2 billion shares on this day.
A little more perspective: Volume so far this year is less than last year's average, but double the volume of five years ago. So there's where we sit on that.
DOBBS: It sort of puts the lie to the idea that higher volume is better in terms of gains.
ROMANS: I guess so. Yes, it does.
DOBBS: Thirty Dow stocks, any of them up this year?
ROMANS: Just two.
DOBBS: Two out of thirty?
ROMANS: Intel is one of them. That unrequited love affair with the semiconductors continues. And so Intel is up. 3M is up. The Dow, though, is down 7 percent this year. Nasdaq's down 2 percent. S&P 500 down 6 percent and change. Only 100 and some of the S&P companies are up for the year so far. So the trend is lower, but on lighter volume. (LAUGHTER)
ROMANS: It still hurts when you open up the...
DOBBS: So you may take solace, tonight, ladies and gentlemen, in the fact that there is lower volume.
Thank you, Christine.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
DOBBS: Labor unions, institutional investors, and state treasurers today stepped up their campaign for Tyco to return to the United States. Tyco is one of the many companies incorporated in an offshore haven to avoid paying taxes in this country.
Peter Viles has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VILES (voice-over): Now, no one says you can't take a Bermuda vacation, but, at some point, if you want to remain an American, you need to come home. That's the message from labor leaders and some pension fund managers to Bermuda-based Tyco, "Come on home," although it wasn't that friendly in tone.
GERALD MCENTEE, PRESIDENT, AFSCME: Tyco must stand up for America. Come home to the U.S. Restore shareholder confidence and pay taxes, just like the rest of us.
PHIL ANGELIDES, CALIFORNIA STATE TREASURER: Tyco, like all these other expatriates, when it comes down to it, if their assets are under threat, if there's a threat to this country, they're not going to be turning to the Bermuda army to defend them. They're going to be turning to American troops.
VILES: Tyco has plenty of problems already, its past management facing criminal charges, its stock down 73 percent from its peak. Now angry shareholders want the company to give up the tax advantages of Bermuda and come back home to its New England roots.
The company is fighting the move, telling MONEYLINE -- quote -- "The proxy advised shareholders to vote against the proposal, so that the board can be given a chance to study it." Tyco has plenty of company in Bermuda. Or, rather, Tyco's mailbox has plenty of company there. Other companies incorporated there include Accenture, Cooper Industries, and Ingersoll-Rand. Fruit of the Loom prefers the Cayman Islands.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: As for the pressure on Tyco to come back home, these shareholder initiatives, however well intentioned, rarely succeed. Big institutional investors just don't like to rock the boat. And this measure is expected to be defeated on Thursday in Bermuda -- Lou.
DOBBS: Don't like to rock the boat. Don't these companies understand they can come back and dodge taxes right here at home?
VILES: Yes, it can be done here at home. That's a good point.
DOBBS: As we've seen more than ample demonstration.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Pete, thanks -- Peter Viles.
Coming up next, we'll have the results here of our MONEYLINE poll. We'll hear what you have to say about some of the international challenges facing this country.
Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Now the preliminary results of our poll question: Who should decide when a war against Iraq begins? Sixty-three percent of you voting the United Nations, 33 percent voting the United States, 4 percent voting France and Germany -- and unlike every other poll you'll see on this network, ours is extraordinarily scientific.
Now let's take a look at your words. Many of you e-mailed about my interview last night with the German ambassador to the United States, Wolfgang Ischinger.
J. Walter lynch of Georgia wrote to say: "The ambassador's logic is faulty. Because the Germans went to war for the wrong reasons in the past does not mean that they should refrain from going to war for the right reasons now."
Dennis Reda of Florida said: "The similarities between Saddam Hussein's atrocities and Germany's past should be reason enough for their support."
And in reaction to our story on whether higher gasoline prices are the result of price-gouging, Kathleen Garcia of California said: "What else can you call an increase of 15 cents a gallon in less than a week? The only other phrase to describe it is highway robbery."
E-mail us at CNN.com/MONEYLINE.
That's MONEYLINE for this Tuesday evening. Thanks for being with us. For all of us here, good night from New York.
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