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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
George Bush Expected to Give Speech on Iraqi Situation; Interviews with Terry McAuliffe, Duncan Hunter
Aired March 6, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE for Thursday March 6. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Good evening. President Bush is expected to issue a rallying call to the nation tonight. Two hours from now, he will hold a prime time news conference to make clear his determination to disarm Saddam Hussein. President Bush is also expected to deliver an optimistic report on the war against terror. White House Correspondent Chris Burns has the report -- Chris.
CHRIS BURNS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the symbolism of this evening's press conference is very important, in the East Room of the White House, a very important room. That's where he -- the last press conference he gave there was on October 11, 2001, just a month after September 11 and just days after the U.S. began bombing the Taliban in Afghanistan.
But will the president be giving an ultimatum or declaration of war? No. He will be giving a message to the American people that it is time to act against Saddam Hussein. The time is now with or without a U.N. resolution. It is time to do something to disarm Saddam Hussein.
Now, how is he going to do that? He's going to give a five minute statement at the beginning laying his case out. Also talking about the perceived successes in the war on terror, especially last weekend's arrest of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, one of the top members of the al Qaeda organization who planed 2001 allegedly.
He will be touting those victories and also making arguments about the need to go ahead and attack Saddam Hussein. So very symbolic and also a message to the American people. The polls indicating that a lot of Americans would like to see a U.N. resolution before the U.S. would go to war -- Lou.
DOBBS: Chris, thank you very much. Chris Burns from the White House.
And, of course, CNN will be covering the president's news conference live. Our special coverage with Aaron Brown and Wolf Blitzer begins tonight at 7:45 p.m. Eastern, 4:45 Pacific.
From the White House to the United Nations where the United States is trying to rally support for military action against Saddam Hussein, if the president decides that is necessary. Top officials from countries in the U.N. Security Council today gathered in New York. Their meetings could determine whether the United Nations will support a U.S.-led attack against Saddam Hussein. Richard Roth is at the U.N. with the story -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Lou, it may be too late, but there's talk of compromise in the air. U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell arrived late in the day in the snow in New York City.
Already Britain had said it was very interested, potentially (UNINTELLIGIBLE), for a compromise. Britain's Foreign Secretary Jack Straw was meeting with Kofi Annan, the U.N. secretary-general there, at the Waldorf Astoria a few blocks from the United Nations headquarters.
Colin Powell met with Jack Straw. Straw had told the United Nations press conference here an that and amendment to the proposed U.S., U.K., Spain resolution would be possible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACK STRAW, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: We obviously attach to the principle set out and to the inevitable conclusion that Iraq has missed its final opportunity. Of course we are ready to discuss the wording of that second resolution and to take on board any constructive suggestions as to how the process set out in that draft resolution could be improved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Nonpermanent members of the Security Council would love some sort of compromise so that they don't get pressed to vote. They'd rather see the big powers settle things. That compromise, any compromise. There's been a Canadian compromise proposal. All be discussed behind closed doors at the Security Council tomorrow. Russian Ambassador Sergie Lavrov though said what kind of compromise when you don't start a war tomorrow and you start it in three days.
One other final note, Lou. Along the Iraq-Kuwait border, the United Nations has 1,000 peacekeepers, there's a demilitarized zone. The United Nations is protesting a violation that some civilian workers, some later identified as Marines were in the area. And then this week, the next day three breaches. An electronic fence were discovered. Secretary-General Annan has notified the Security Council of this. It turns out, of course, that if U.S. troops pour through that area headed toward Iraq, it's a violation of Security Council rules and resolutions, and would be reported to the Security Council.
U.S. officials say this won't be a problem because it is a justified attack due to Iraq's treatment of Kuwait in the past and potentially in the future -- Lou.
DOBBS: Richard, thank you. Richard Roth from the United Nations. Tomorrow night here we will be joined by the head of the Nuclear Monitoring Agency, Mohammed ElBaradei. He will be here to talk about disarming both Iraq and North Korea after he gives his latest update to the United Nations.
While diplomacy continues, so does military preparation in the Persian Gulf. The United States and Britain have increased dramatically increased the number of air patrols over Iraq. In fact, they've tripled them.
Defense officials say as many as 750 missions are now being flown each day. It is only one sign that a U.S. and British-led attack against Saddam Hussein could begin very soon. Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the Bethesda Naval Medical Center the doctors and nurses who man the hospital ship Comfort are shipping out to the Persian Gulf.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel a little sad but I'm honored. It's a duty thing, so I'm glad that my country chose me to go.
MCINTYRE: The comfort is scheduled to pull into Bahrain this weekend to take the medical team on board. Sources say staffing the hospital ship to deal with battlefield casualties is one of the final steps before war.
Other preparations include vastly increasing the number of patrols over Southern Iraq. Taking advantage of three aircraft carriers now in the Persian Gulf, the U.S. has tripled the number of Sorties over the last ten days. On a typical day about 250 Sorties are flown in support of no-fly zone patrols. Over the last ten days, the number of Sorties has been as high as 750. And the latest plan called for 900 Sorties in one day.
Pentagon sources say the idea is to orient pilots to the missions they will have to fly in the war, prepare the battlefield by bombing air defenses and other threatening targets and establish an unpredictable pattern of activity, so it will be harder for Iraq to figure out when the war is actually starting.
Pentagon sources say there has still been no decision about who to do with the Army's 4th Infantry Division, which was scheduled to go to Turkey, but could well sit out the war in Texas.
And while Turkey reconsiders its refusal to allow U.S. troop deployments or overflight rights, the U.S. has not yet moved its two aircraft carriers in the Mediterranean to their backup location in the Red Sea where they could send planes over Saudi Arabia instead.
Even if Turkey says yes, the Pentagon may still go with plan B, which is to take Northern Iraq with airborne troops from Kuwait. The 101st Airborne Division, which would get that assignment, is still waiting for the rest of its helicopters and combat gear to arrive, something sources say should be in place by late next week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: And, Lou, one more sign that the war is drawing near, CNN has learned that U.S. Air Force planes and troops have moved to a forward base in Saudi Arabia up near the Iraqi border. This deployment of F-15Cs and F-16CJs, both of those aircraft are considered defensive aircraft, the F-15Cs just air to air. That's the only kind of deployment right now that Saudi Arabia is allowing.
But it's the first time that forward air base, which is usually a commercial facility, has been used in this kind of way -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie thank you. I'd like to ask you as well tonight, the Pentagon says Saddam Hussein also ordered uniforms that resemble those worn by U.S. and British troops. What more can you tell us about that?
MCINTYRE: Well, you say that the U.S. Central Command was pretty spun up about this. Apparently the CIA came to the conclusion that Saddam Hussein was ordering uniforms essentially identical to U.S. and British uniforms. Their conclusion is that the -- Saddam plans to issue these uniforms to some of his more loyal troops, have them commit reprisals, atrocities against civilian population, that would then be blamed on the United States. And the U.S. is making that charge this afternoon that that's what's behind that.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
The Pentagon is also, of course, keeping its focus on North Korea. The first long-range bombers today arrived in Guam as a clear warning to Pyongyang. Military force is only one option of dealing with this crisis. There are diplomatic and economic options available to the administration as well. National security correspondent David Ensor has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With Pacific command officers considering whether to recommend putting fighter jets up near U.S. reconnaissance aircraft surveying North Korea after the incident last weekend, a senior Defense Department official told CNN if the North Korean leadership are, quote, "counting on us to be risk adverse, they may misjudge us."
The official suggested further military provocations could be a miscalculation by the North Koreans. Having ordered 24 bombers moved to Guam, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld said the U.S. can deter North Korea even as it fights in Iraq, if it comes to that.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We're well arranged and we feel good about the deterrent and the defensive capability that the United States has.
ENSOR: On Capitol Hill, the administration faces growing criticism for not agreeing to the bilateral talks the North Koreans want. Talks about their apparent rush at Yongbyon towards nuclear weapons production and what they might want in exchange for stopping it.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: I don't know what we lose. I don't know what we lose by talking.
ENSOR: Secretary of State Powell denied recent reports that the administration might be ready to live with a nuclear North Korea and hinted at action behind the scenes.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have a number of diplomatic initiatives under way, some of them very, very quietly under way, to see if we cannot get a multi lateral dialogue started. And we are looking for a peaceful solution to this problem, and we are committed to a non nuclear Korean Peninsula.
ENSOR: U.S. officials say they are pressuring the Russian, and Chinese to ratchet up the penalties for North Korea if it continues on this path. Such pressure could include warning to North Korea's leader Kim Jong Il, that he would not be allowed to export nuclear material. His ships, his trucks would be checked. That idea means skepticism from some.
ASHTON CARTER, HARVARD: I think it is entirely implausible that we can put a seal around North Korea that would guarantee us that a grapefruit size lump of metal -- that's what plutonium is -- a bomb's worth of plutonium, couldn't be smuggled out of North Korea.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: A senior Defense Department official says the U.S. is not looking for a fight, but North Korea should not think that it will not react because of being distracted by Iraq. The U.S. is not distracted by Iraq, he said. And he suggested that reconnaissance flights watching North Korea will be continued no matter what -- Lou.
DOBBS: David, thank you. And obviously there has been no distraction from the war against terror, either, with the high profile arrest over the past several days.
Today as you know, David, Wall Street was rocked by rumors that the United States had captured Osama bin Laden. Those reports, and rumors later knocked down. What can you tell us tonight about the latest on the search for al Qaeda leader bin Laden?
ENSOR: Well, I can tell you, Lou, that in talking to officials from various branches of government, there is a sense that they may be closing in on him. Certainly, they have gotten a lot of leads that they are pursuing a as a result of having captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, the operations chief of al Qaeda, along with his laptop computer, his cell phones, and notebooks, and even an address book. They are pursuing leads. However, reports elsewhere that suggested that the U.S. think that bin Laden is in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Province of Pakistan. I am told by officials that is not correct -- Lou.
DOBBS: David, thank you very much. David Ensor national security correspondent from Washington.
Still ahead here Israel strikes back at Palestines today. Launching an attack in Northern Gaza. We will have the report for you.
More B-52 bombers moving to Guam just part of the strategy as the administration deals with the North Korean crisis. For more on the next steps with Pyongyang and the Persian Gulf, I will be joined by CNN military analyst General David Grange.
On Wall Street today, stock prices fell. A triple digit loss for the Dow. Christine Romans will have the market for us.
And Americans borrowing at the fastest rate in more than a decade. Kitty Pilgrim will have a report on America, one nation under debt.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said the United States can fight Iraq and North Korea if necessary at the same time, and cover what he called lesser contingencies, as well.
Joining me now is our CNN military analyst, General David Grange.
General good to have you with us.
Do you agree with the defense secretary's assessment.
GEN DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Not exactly. I think the United States armed forces can engage both of these enemies, if they become so -- the United States of America simultaneously, but I think that one would deejay be a holding action while the other was to destroy and occupy a particular country, say in this case Iraq. Korea would be a holding action, though the United States would be capable of destroying many its forces.
DOBBS: And the movement of air power to the region, is it your assessment that there will be, in fact, more assets moved into the region?
GRANGE: I think you'll see some other actions. It's very important that North Korea understands that the United States, though it's focused on Iraq, can reach out and touch North Korea if they perform aggressive actions that must be dealt with. You will see that the exercises ongoing in South Korea called Full Eagle as an example should be continued. And I believe it will, which is planned training with the South Korean army. Very important that they continue do that.
And I believe you may see more work with the country of Japan to show that we're working with our allies to contain a threat if, in fact, it gets out of the box. So I think you will see things like that over the next few months.
DOBBS: General, today, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld Said, amongst other things, that he would consider moving troops, U.S. troops along the DMZ away to the south, or perhaps, removing most if not all of those troops from Korea all together. What's your reaction?
GRANGE: I believe you will see in the future movement. Not right now, but in the future movement of U.S. troops, a lot of them out of Korea, or maybe repositioned to the South in the peninsula, but probably move them out of Korea where they can respond. They have more flexibility to do attack instead of a defensive mission. In other words a counter attack against the North Korea's in this case along with other U.S. units.
And I think you are going to see the same thing in Germany. I think you may see repositioning of troops in Europe, and also the army being used more like the Marine Corps in shorter rotations with the ability to move quickly anywhere in the world to respond. And with the size of the military we have today, it's critical to have that flexibility.
DOBBS: The size of the military today, repositioning. The size of the forces in the Middle East. That issue complicated by Turkey's refusal to permit the fourth army into Turkey.
What do you believe will be the ultimate disposition of those assets, that equipment, and those troops?
GRANGE: There's a good chance that Turkey will provide -- give final approval to put U.S. troops through their land into the Northern approaches into Iraq. I think the issue is a decision they have to OK that's pretty quick. Because I think our armed forces needs to make a decision to move around if that's the case, and use that viable lethal force elsewhere in a theater. So I think that has to happen within a week if not sooner. So Turkey needs to make a decision soon. Or, actually, I think we will suffer from that decision, because of the things that will happen in Northern Iraq.
DOBBS: General David Grange, thank.
In news around the world, 11 people were killed during an Israeli military operation today in the Gaza Strip. More than a hundred people were injured. The Israeli Defense Forces arrested a senior Hamas activist. The raid came one day after Hamas claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing that killed 15 people in Israel.
One hundred and two people were killed today in the worst crash in the Algerian history. The aircraft went down deep in the Sahara Desert, shortly after take off. It was on it's way to the nations capitol of Algiers. The airplane went down on it's way to the Algerian capitol. Amazingly one person did survived the crash.
DOBBS: Coming up next, a massive pileup today on route 95 in Massachusetts. Dozens of cars and drivers involved.
Plus NASA today answered questions from the independent board investigating the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster. We will have that for you. And also ahead, Terry McAuliffe, chairmen of the Democratic National Committee is our guest this evening. We'll talking about a crowded field of Democratic candidates all seeking one residence come 2005. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Sill ahead tonight, Americans' net worth is actually rising. But so, too, the levels of debt. Kitty Pilgrim will have that for us tonight -- Kitty.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the problem is credit has just been too easy, and some Americans don't know enough to say enough is enough on debt -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you.
Also, a new warning tonight for motorists all around the country -- gasoline prices could be headed even higher. That and much more still ahead here.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A former NASA engineer today said he warned NASA about communications problems that appeared to have played a role in the space shuttle Columbia disaster.
Henry MacDonald testified today at the first public hearing to be held by the independent board that is investigating the disaster. He said three years ago he warned NASA about the procedure for risk assessment which, in Columbia's case, concluded that the shuttle was safe.
Shuttle program manager Ron Dittemore, and John Space Center Director Jefferson Davis Howell also testified today and told investigators that NASA's decision to shift much of the responsibility for maintaining the shuttle to private contractors did not compromise safety.
In other news "Across America" tonight, the FBI is investigating an attack on American Taliban John Walker Lindh. Lindh was roughed up at the California prison where he is now held. Lindh is serving a 20- year sentence for fighting with the Taliban against U.S. forces in Afghanistan.
There was a massive chain reaction traffic accident near Attleboro, Massachusetts today. Nearly 100 cars were involved in the pileup on Interstate 95. A fast moving winter storm led to extremely hazardous driving conditions.
Driving is becoming more expensive every day. The government's energy watchdog says gasoline prices could rise to a record national average of $1.76 a gallon by April. Officials say that assumes Iraq's oil exports will not be disrupted should there be war. Gasoline prices already top $2 a gallon in California and a few other places.
Rising energy prices could not come at a worst time for consumers. Consumers are already struggling with crushing credit card bills and debt. Personal bankruptcies continue to set, in fact, new records.
Kitty Pilgrim reports on a nation in debt.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM (voice-over): Trying to make ends meet, groceries, gas -- what about the extras? Put it on a card. Well, that's what Americans did, and bankruptcies are breaking all records. A million and a half people filed last year.
Blame easy credit. The average household went from some $2,000 in credit card debt in 1990, to more than $8,000 in the last year. Now people are spending some 14 percent of their disposable income just paying the interest on debt.
In the last two years, car companies convinced people to go even further into debt, buying new cars, trading up, enticed by 0 percent financing deals.
And mortgage debt also climbed. There used to be the theory that credit card debt was bad debt, mortgage was good debt. But some people took out home equity loans and still kept spending, living well over their heads.
GARY SCHATSKY, PRES., IAD FINANCIAL COUNSELORS: Over the last couple of years, there's been a feeling that you couldn't lose with real estate. Real estate was going up, and consequently people invested in bigger homes and borrowed larger sums of money. There's a problem with it.
PILGRIM: How does the plight of the individual compare to the rest of the economy? Government debt is climbing. State and local governments are facing deficits. The federal budget went from surplus to deficit.
But corporate debt is down. Businesses cleaned up their balance sheets after the stock market bubble of 2000.
BRIAN FABRRT, BNP PARIBAS: Corporations have reduced their debt level and are in significantly better shape relative to their income, their cash flow needs, than they have been two or three years ago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Well, the good news is interest rates are still low and show no prospect of going higher in the near future. Financial planners say those low rates present a golden opportunity to restructure personal debt and pay it down. In fact, the timing on that could not be more perfect -- Lou.
DOBBS: Eight and a half trillions dollars? PILGRIM: It is absolutely astonishing.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much. Kitty Pilgrim.
Still ahead, Democrats scrambling to get their party in order before next year's election. Peter Viles has that story for us -- Peter.
PETER VILES, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the challenge to Democrats now is the same challenge they failed in the November elections: to lay out a positive vision of what they stand for -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you, Peter.
We'll also be talking with the man responsible for articulating much of that vision, the chairman of the Democratic national committee. Terry McAuliffe will be here to tell us what's ahead for Democrats and for Republicans they oppose.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: These are the top stories we're following this evening:
President Bush will tonight say the world faces an important moment in the confrontation with Iraq when he holds a prime time news conference in just about an hour and a half. White House aides say he will have a statement on the effort to disarm Saddam Hussein. CNN will have special coverage that begins at 7:45 p.m. -- Aaron Brown and Wolf Blitzer.
Eleven Palestinians were killed today, more than 100 injured during an Israeli military operation in Gaza. The Israeli incursion came one day after the radical Islamist terrorist group Hamas claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing that left 15 people dead in Haifa.
NASA today defended its use of private contractors in the shuttle program. Top officials told the board investigating the Columbia disaster that private contractors saved the agency money and did not compromise safety.
An angry President Bush today called the Democratic blockade of judicial nominee Miguel Estrada a disgrace and an injustice. Senate Republicans failed to break a Democratic filibuster on Estrada's nomination to the Federal Appellate Court. Democrats say Estrada has refused to answer important questions during his nomination on hearings. GOP denounced the Democratic filibuster as raw politics. The Democratic party is facing many challenges right now. The party lost seats in last fall's midterm elections. Democrats are gearing up for a crowded presidential primary. And the party is searching for a positive message that will bring voters back into the fold.
Peter Viles has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOV. HOWARD DEAN (D), VERMONT: I'm Howard Dean an I'm here to represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.
VILES (voice-over): In Iowa a battle for the soul of the Democratic party. A party bruised by historic losses in last fall's elections. Democratic Senator Zell Miller said it as well as anyone, why did we lose so badly he asked? Because we didn't give people any real reason to vote for us. Four months later the lack of a clear vision remains a major party issue.
GREG VALLIERE, SCHWAB WASHINGTON RESEARCH: I think the Democrats still need to find a message. Everyone knows what they are opposed to, the Bush tax plan, unilateral action in Iraq. But people are less clear as to what the Democrats are in favor of.
VILES: In Congress the clearest Democrat priority right now is a very risky one. The filibuster to block the Senate vote on the nomination of Miguel Estrada to the Federal Appellate Court. The president called filibuster a quote, "disgrace." But the larger issue right now is war with Iraq. Many Democrats have found fault with the president's strategy but few have aligned themselves with the anti-war movement.
RON FAUCHEUX, CAMPAIGNS & ELECTIONS MAGAZINE: I think the war is a problem for the Democrats because, No. 1, they don't have significant credibility on foreign policy and military issues. The poll show that Republicans have a big, big lead on those issues. And the other problem is one of uncertainty. They don't know where this war is going.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: For all the Democrats trouble a recent CNN poll show they continue to hold the voters' trust on issues like the environment, education, and fighting unemployment -- Lou.
DOBBS: Building blocks.
VILES: Could be.
DOBBS: Peter Viles, thank you.
Terry McAuliffe, holds the future of the Democratic party in his hands, at least certainly an important part of it. As the parties chairman, he must help deliver a clear message to voters, fight a president whose approval ratings with the public are still running high. Joining us now is the chairman of the Democratic National Committee Terry McAuliffe.
Good to have you with us.
TERRY MCAULIFFE, CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Great to be here.
DOBBS: The parties right now, fielding nine candidates, at least three others in prospect, does that pose a problem for the Democratic party in 2004 in terms of finding a clear message, in terms of raising money?
MCAULIFFE: I think having nine candidates is good for the party. If we have nine candidates, they are going to spend the next year going across America, energizing people, talking about where the Democratic party stands. Showing the difference between the Democrats and the Republicans. Lou, that's good for our party. My challenge is going to be as the party had, as you know, to bring everybody together early next spring when we know who our nominee will be. To get everybody to stay in the process. But I am hopeful we can do that.
I was encouraged with today. You saw the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) poll, it had a Democratic candidate, leading 48-44 over George Bush. Yesterday Fox news's poll at 42 percent. So encouraging signs, but listen George Bush has been a disaster on the domestic agenda. I worry you, Lou, that you may not have a MONEYLINE because no one's going to have any money for you to talk about. So, you know, I think we have a lot of opportunities for Democrats to win at the White House level as well as the down (UNINTELLIGIBLE) elections.
DOBBS: Well, Terry, I'm sure that your faith in this country and its economic system will probably dispel any fears over time, at least. The fact is as you point out, one of your great challenges has to be, Terry, that you have candidate is from Dean, former governor of Vermont, to Lieberman, the senator who in many votes looks very Republican.
How do you bring together such (UNINTELLIGIBLE) view, and have that reflect as the message of the Democratic party?
MCAULIFFE: Well, it is a challenge, we have a broad party. We have conservative Democrats. We have liberal Democrats. But, you know, that's what great about are party is the broad depth and diversity of our party. You know, I remind everybody, that you know, we did win the last three presidential elections. Al Gore did get 500,000 more votes than George Bush did. And you know, Lou, everybody talked about 2002. I do like to remind everybody, two years ago, Republicans had 50 senators.
They now have 51. They have one more, and but for the unfortunate death of Wellstone, they'd have had the same amount. And we know have five more Democratic Governors then we had two years ago. We won in Pennsylvania. We won in Michigan. We won in Illinois. We won in Kansas. We won in Oklahoma. We won in Maine. I mean, we won in Wyoming. We in a lot of places in 2002. I a very hopefully we are a broad party, but that brings a lot of people into the political process. As we can keep people energized.
Bill Bradley ran against Al Gore in 2000, as you know. He brought a lot of people in the process who stayed in the process who stayed in he process. So I think to have all of them out there with their message to come together. I think the primaries will be over in mid-March, just about a year. And then we have seven and a half months to go one-on-one with George Bush, with the Democratic message. We did have a problem getting the message out in 02. DOBBS: You think it will be a wrap up by super Tuesday?
MCAULIFFE: I do. I think March 2, we have a whole slew of primaries. And March 9, we have a whole bunch more. So, I think, by the 10th we will have a clear idea of the Democratic nominee, which is good for our party. Then we all come together before we go into Boston on the 26th for our convention.
But listen, as you know, 2.5 million jobs have been lost since George Bush became president. Consumer confidence at a nine-year low, disposable income down, 40 million Americans today that have no health insurance. These are big issues facing people in the country today. The Democrats do have an economic plan. Tom Daschle and Nancy Pelosi, we out early with a plan of what we stand for. You see the deficits in the country today.
DOBBS: When you talk about the economic issues facing the Bush administration, I am reminded of Anita Loi (ph) running the Congressional campaign, hanging the title, Bush recession, on it as it began on March 1, about six weeks after the president had taken office. I suspect there will be some considerable debate over the roots of the slowdown in the economy in the future of this economy.
But let's turn to the candidates in terms of what you call the domestic failure of George Bush and his administration. The fact is your party ran on that in the midterm elections, and did not focus on Iraq, the war against terrorism. You have now changed that, at least most of the candidates who are articulating their viewpoints at this juncture are. Is that a lesson learned from the midterm election results?
MCAULIFFE: First of all I was proud of so many of our Democrats who ran in 2002. Lou, it was difficult to get the message out. I mean, listen Tom Daschle, Dick Gephardt, press conferences every day on the domestic economic agenda. It was hard to break through with the war on Iraq. And I think, as we go towards November 2, 2004, we will be dealing with the aftermath of Iraq. And what the American people are saying today and the only -- look at the polling data today. All of George Bush's reelect numbers are in the 40s, because he has not taken care of the priorities that he promised. He hasn't taken car of homeland security. He hasn't taken care of first responders.
DOBBS: But Terry, his approval rating, as you know, is at 60 percent in nearly every poll, which is remarkable. In terms of the Democratic side of this issue, if the president succeeds in what he began six months ago, in bringing multi-lateral action against Saddam Hussein, disarming him of weapons of mass destruction. And your candidates are in an anti-war posture and every poll successes that nearly 2/3 of the support for those candidates is anti-war, what does that do for your hopes and strategy to win back the White House?
MCAULIFFE: Well, I'm sorry, Lou, I think some of your Republican bias must be coming out here, but our candidates are not anti-war. What Democrats, many of them are running, what they are saying is we would prefer to have a multi-nation coalition, just as George Bush's father did when we did Desert Storm, to go over into Iraq. There are many questions that Americans are asking.
Why do we want to go at this alone? How long are we going to be in Iraq. For how long is this going cost? People want -- these are legitimate questions. That's what candidates running for presidents are saying. They're not anti-war. We all believe we need to get rid of Saddam Hussein. He is a monster. The issue is how you do it and with how many different countries helping us.
DOBBS: I think your pro Democratic bias is overwhelming you a little bit in your assessment of other biases. Howard Dean is objectively anti-war.
MCAULIFFE: They are.
DOBBS: Well, that's what I said.
MCAULIFFE: Yes, but not all of our candidates.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I would not imply that Joseph Lieberman the senator from Connecticut was anti-war.
MCAULIFFE: Well, I felt like there was a broad brush. We have nine candidates running with varying issues on Iraq. But you know, this will be left up to the Democratic primary voters, who will all go to the polls beginning January 19 of next year. And that's what the Democratic Primary voters will pick the nominee of our party.
But, listen, the Democratic party has always been strong. We support our military 100 percent. And we're going to support our military. We have the greatest military in the world. I mean, it was under the Clinton/Gore administration that the military saw their greatest pay increases come along. So , listen, we support the military. We support action. We want to get rid of Saddam Hussein. And our primary voters, as chairman of the party -- you know, we have nine different candidates with nine different views.
But you know what? I always like to bring it back to the domestic agenda. I want some efforts spent here at home. We will get rid of Saddam Hussein. But the issue is, What are we doing here at home to take care? What are we doing for tax cuts for the middle class, which is what we support.
DOBBS: Right.
MCAULIFFE: We would like to see families of four today get a tax cut of $1,200. Let's help small businesses. Let's do incentives -- 50 percent write off the first year. Let's help the states, which are all financially in serious financial trouble today.
DOBBS: Terry...
MCAULIFFE: Those are the issues that we want to talk about going into the election. DOBBS: Terry, I think those are wonderful issues to talk about and just to demonstrate my total, total lack of bias on the part of either party, I think there are wonderful ideas emanating from both parties.
MCAULIFFE: Great.
DOBBS: I'd like to see a lot from both sides, just speaking with one personal bias.
Terry, we're out of time. I hope you'll come bark soon...
MCAULIFFE: Lou...
DOBBS: ...as we march toward 2004.
MCAULIFFE: Great. Great to see you. Thanks. Great to be with you.
DOBBS: Good to have you.
MCAULIFFE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
President Bush announced on September 4 that he would take his case to Congress and the United Nations. It has now been 6 months.
In tonight's MONEYLINE poll the question is, "Has Saddam Hussein had sufficient time to comply with demands to disarm?" Cast your vote at cnn.com/moneyline. We'll have preliminary results later in the broadcast.
Now the final results of yesterday's poll question. Last evening we asked: "What do you think should influence the president's decision on Iraq?" And 4 percent of you said focus groups, 26 percent said protests/demonstrations, 1 percent said editorials, 69 percent said values and policy goals.
Still ahead here, President Bush is calling for a defense budget that totals almost $400 billion next year. My next guests says that's not enough. We'll be joined by Congressman Duncan Hunter, the chairman of the House Arms Services Committee.
And later, Frank Batrone today became the investment first banker on Wall Street to be charged with misconduct. We will have the report.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: As America prepares for the prospect of war against Saddam Hussein, my next guest says it is doing so with a military that is woefully underfunded, using equipment that, in some cases, is older than the servicemen using the equipment.
The amount this country spends on defense is now just 16 cents of each taxpayer dollar. That's about half the amount that America spent on defense in the 1980s.
Congressman Duncan Hunter says the recently proposed defense budget will not be enough to sustain the nation's fighting forces at their current levels. Congressman Hunter is the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. He is also a Vietnam Veteran. He served in the 173rd airborne and the 75th Army rangers, and joins us tonight from Washington, D.C.
Mr. Chairman, good to have you with us.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA: Great to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: This -- this situation in terms of -- as Secretary Rumsfeld laid it out, the ability to engage in two theaters -- do you share the secretary's confidence?
HUNTER: Well, first, Lou, the secretary, and President Bush do have a budget, which is $94 billion above the last Clinton budget, which makes it sound very big.
But my argument has been that they're using the wrong metric. Because if you look at the forces that we had in the first Gulf War with President Bush in 1991, they've been dramatically cut by the Clinton administration during the 90s, to the point where we have roughly half the military that we had then.
And, for example, we had had 18 army divisioned in 1991. By the time President Clinton had walked out of the White House for the last time, you were down to 10 divisions. So he cut the army almost in half. You had 24 active fighter air wings in 1991. President Clinton cut it to 13. So he cut the tactical air force almost in half. And we had 546 navy ships in 1991. But when President Clinton left the White House, we had cut that to just over 300 ships.
So the administration is right when they say we have massively increased the budget, if you're referring to the Clinton years, and I agree with that. But if you look at the equipment that we have today, because we made almost no equipment purchases during the 1990s, we got 23-year-old, on the average, fighter aircraft in the Air Force. We've got 15-year plus fighter aircraft on Navy decks, and we need to spend, I think, and according to CBO, when they took all the tanks, trucks, ships, planes...
DOBBS: The Congressional Budget Office....
HUNTER: .... figured out their longevity, we need to put about another 40 to $50 billion a year into the defense budget.
DOBBS: Congressman, if I may, Terry McAuliffe just accused me of having a Republican bias, so I am compelled to point out that under the administration of George H.W. Bush, began the phase of closing military installations, and some significant troop reductions as well. Certainly your point about it being carried forward in the last decade is also true.
But that phase after the end of the Cold War was one that was initiated, in point of fact, by President Bush, was it not?
HUNTER: Well, let me tell you, there was a draw down after the Berlin Wall collapsed. There was a drawn down in forced structure, but it was never supposed to be as deep as it was under the Clinton administration.
DOBBS: Right.
HUNTER: We were supposed to stop, for example, at 15 or 16 fighter air wings in the Air Force. We were supposed to remain at least 12 to 14 divisions in the Army. The Clinton administration needed money, and they told Secretary Aspin to keep cutting. So we cut dramatically, and at one year in the 1990s, Clinton bought fewer fighter aircraft than Switzerland. He literally lived off the Reagan/Bush years, and because of that we have a lot of old stuff.
So I commend the president for doing a lot more than President Clinton. But right now, we need to have new equipment. I think a 12 to 13 percent increase per year is justified.
DOBBS: And let me ask you this: Many of those forces are deployed in NATO, in Europe, 37, 000 troops, great support, equipment, Air Force, Army, primarily. The secretary of defense today also said that he would consider pulling back some of those forces, perhaps removing all of them in the case of Korea. What is your judgment?
HUNTER: Well, if you look at Britain or at Germany -- and I just held a hearing on this -- we had some 300,000 troops at one offsetting the massive armored division of the Warsaw Pact and we had them in Germany to protect the so-called Fulda Gap (ph),, where they would have to come into the German plane.
Today there are no tanks on the other side of the Fulda Gap, because the Soviet empire have been eliminated, but we still have 71,400 troops in Germany. So even if we didn't have this present disagreement with Germany over Iraq, any strategic planner would have to be asking, What is the mission in Germany? And I think it's minimal, in terms of keeping the troops there, unless it's just a P.R. thing.
And secondly, if you look at the dozens and dozens of bases in Germany, each one of those has to have separate million facilities, has to have security capability, has to have schools and all the other things that the American apparatus brings with it. So I think there's room for restructuring and realignment.
And the other thing I'd like to do -- if we're going to be stationed to some degree in Europe, I think some of the new nations like Poland, which have lower costs of living, would be a good -- a good, friendly environment for American forces. So I think some shifting might also be in order.
DOBBS: Congressman Duncan Hunter, we thank you for being with us.
HUNTER: Thank you.
DOBBS: Still ahead, fallen investment banking star Frank Batrone, the latest example of bad behavior on Wall Street. We'll have his story.
Stocks sold off today, the Dow suffering another triple digit loss. Christine Romans will have the market in just a moment.
I'll tell you how a missing peanut butter sandwich has become a federal case.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Investment banker Frank Quattrone has been charged by the NASD with spending coveted shares of IPOs and failing to cooperate with investigators. Those complaints come just two days after Quattrone resigned from Credit Suisse First Boston.
On Wall Street today the Dow Jones Industrials fell to a five- month low. The Dow, Nasdaq, S&P 500 all down on the day. Christine Romans now with the market -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMAN, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: Weak retail and jobless data pushing the Dow below 7,700 for the first time in five months. All eyes on those October lows. But the Dow is the only major average yet to break below there.
Believe it or not, Lou, the broader S&P 500 is still 5 percent higher than the October 9 drop. The Wilshire 5,000 is up six percent, the Nasdaq has risen 16 percent since October.
Meanwhile, Intel up 28 percent since October, but that's a little solace for those investors who have lost 77 percent since the stock's peak. After the bell Intel gave its mid-quarter update, pegged first quarter revenue at 6.6 to $6.8 billion. The stock is off 4 percent afterhours -- Lou.
DOBBS: Christine, thank you. A historic loss in France as well.
ROMANS: Absolutely. Vivendi Universal posting a net loss last year of $23 billion Euros. That makes it the largest corporate loss in French history. Vivendi shares, Lou, falling today another 5 percent today.
DOBBS: Putting a little impetus behind the sale of those entertainment assets in this country. Christine, thank you very much. Christine Romans.
CROSSFIRE coming up, let's go to Tucker Carlson and Paul Begala in Washington -- Paul.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Well, Lou, our president of course is getting ready to have his press conference. He'll be answering tough questions. If he wants really tough questions, he should come here. But in advance of that, we'll have senior members of the House of Representatives, one from each party, to tell us what they think the president ought to say tonight.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": And then, Lou, the British. Above all, they not the French. They have been our most stalwart allies, but are they going wobbly at the last moment? We'll have martin Walker from UPI and Christopher Hitchens on to debate it. It's going be great, and very British.
DOBBS: Looking forward to it, as always. Tucker and Paul, thank you very much.
Coming up here, the results of our "MONEYLINE Poll" tonight and, of course, your thoughts, your me e-mails.
And who would make a federal case out of a peanut butter sandwich? That's coming right up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the preliminary results of our poll tonight. The question, has Saddam Hussein had sufficient time to comply with demands to disarm? Sixty-one percent voting of you yes, 39 percent said no. You may continue to vote over the course of the next 23 hours. We'll have the final results tomorrow evening on our broadcast.
Now for a look at your words. We continue to receive a lot of e- mail about Kitty Pilgrim's report that most Americans don't care about celebrities and what they think about Iraq. Here's a sampling.
Tate Fenner of California wrote in to say, "Hollywood thinks that because they have a lot of money their opinions really matter. The truth is that Washington just wants their campaign money and couldn't care less about their ignorance of the facts."
And Barry Bruyea of Canada said, "At least Ronald Reagan had the fortitude to back up his opinions by running for office; something most of the present-day Hollywood protesters have never done, nor will they ever do."
Other topic. Sharon Wolodkin of Ohio said, "Thank you for having Elie Wiesel on your show. Bravo! It is so nice to hear from someone who sees the big picture!"
And James Bufford of Connecticut. "I appreciate and almost expect the pope to weigh in on the moral injustice of war, but how can we really respect the opinion of someone who refuses to take a hard line against child abuse perpetrated by the church?"
We thank you for your e-mails. Send them to us any time. Moneyline@cnn.com. Please include your name and address.
And finally tonight, federal agents in Iowa are now investigating the case of a stolen peanut butter sandwich. An airport employee in Des Moines said her sandwich was taken from her locker. The only people who have access to that area where the locker is are federal workers. Local police said it would be inappropriate for them to investigate the case, so it was promptly turned over to the Transportation Security Administration.
That's MONEYLINE for this Thursday evening. Thanks for being with us. For all of us here, good night from New York.
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Interviews with Terry McAuliffe, Duncan Hunter>
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