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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Harvey Kushner

Aired March 09, 2003 - 07:12   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And now to the search for Osama bin Laden. Officials say last weekend's capture of top al Qaeda operative, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, could be a crucial step in finding his boss. Investigators have already turned up plenty of new evidence. And for more on the significance of last Saturday's arrest and what can happen next, here is Harvey Kushner, he's an internationally recognized authority on terrorism, and the president of Saferamerica.com.
Good morning, Harvey, thanks for being here today.

HARVEY KUSHNER, PRESIDENT, SAFERAMERICA.COM: My pleasure, Heidi.

COLLINS: I want to start by asking you, kind of a very basic question. How big of a deal is it that we got this guy -- very big deal, right?

KUSHNER: A real big deal. He's number three on the list, KSM, as he's known, is important, because he's the operations coordinator, who we've been wanting him for quite some time. He's related to Ramzi Yousef, he's his uncle, the first mastermind of the '93 bombing of the World Trade Center. He has involvement in the embassy bombings, certainly in the USS Cole, and other events. His laptop and telephone communications we've intercepted is a treasure trove, really, of information...

COLLINS: ... right, and Harvey, let's talk for just a second about what exactly it is that we do have now, since we've gotten him. We've got his computer, and what else?

KUSHNER: We probably have cell communications, cell phone communications, which directly link him to bin Laden. There's been talk that, short as a month ago, he's had contact with him -- so, ever since we've been looking for bin Laden, this is probably our closest link to him.

We have others, Mohammed Atef, who we kill -- we killed, military coordinator Zubaydah, but this guy, KSM, is significant because he's a direct associate of bin Laden.

COLLINS: And it's possible that because of that, he may not only know where he is -- of course, that's a vital question -- but at least may have had recent communications with him, possibly, right?

KUSHNER: Right, not only with him, but possibly with his sons -- Saad, certainly, who is looked upon as the new head of al Qaeda, and Mohammed, the second son, who's also considered a player in al Qaeda. So, it's significant that KSM is in our custody, because we should work him for information that could lead to bin Laden himself.

But that's the good news. The bad news is that al Qaeda, the minute somebody's captured, reverses its plans. Things that are in the pipeline are taken out of the pipeline. So, this is something we have to be aware of.

COLLINS: And how quickly can they do that?

KUSHNER: Very quickly. Al Qaeda, right from the get-go has always had a structure, but it's also had a very fluid dynamic attached to it, in which it would reinvent itself. And it was very small, the relationships between people were unknown. It was sort of followed the model used here in the United States and domestic terrorism called leaderless resistance, where small cells would spontaneously erupt and take on their own agendas.

COLLINS: And you know, Harvey, there has been a lot of criticism for possibly going ahead with the war on terrorism, because some people feel like, as I'm sure you've heard this, the war on terror has not been completed. I don't know if it ever will be completed, but does this show that we could possibly fight these two wars at the same time?

KUSHNER: Oh, absolutely, it shows we could walk and chew bubble gum. Certainly with the capture of KSM, it shows that we still have links to intelligence agencies in Pakistan, that could be of help to us, and now we could open up our massive front, not only against al Qaeda, but against Iraq, at which the relationships in somewhat of a skewer. And this indeed tells us that we've made significant progress. We've taken out the first 10, 15 people, with exception of Zawahiri, No. 2, and bin Laden himself.

So, I think KSM was indeed significant, and it does -- should show the American public that our law enforcement agencies both here and abroad have a pipeline directly with other agencies who apprehend these terrorists who are involved in the 9/11 attacks.

COLLINS: And quickly, Harvey, will the United States war on terrorism ever be finished?

KUSHNER: You know, that -- it's tough to say. We certainly made tremendous inroads into the structure side of al Qaeda, but I would think in the upcoming years ahead, we're still going to be faced with this no matter what we do with Iraq, and certainly with al Qaeda. This is a problem that, you know, can't be solved in a day, a week, a month, a year, and even a decade.

COLLINS: All right, Harvey Kushner, with Saferamerica.com, thanks so much for your insight this morning.

KUSHNER: Thank you.

COLLINS: We appreciate it.

KUSHNER: Pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 9, 2003 - 07:12   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And now to the search for Osama bin Laden. Officials say last weekend's capture of top al Qaeda operative, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, could be a crucial step in finding his boss. Investigators have already turned up plenty of new evidence. And for more on the significance of last Saturday's arrest and what can happen next, here is Harvey Kushner, he's an internationally recognized authority on terrorism, and the president of Saferamerica.com.
Good morning, Harvey, thanks for being here today.

HARVEY KUSHNER, PRESIDENT, SAFERAMERICA.COM: My pleasure, Heidi.

COLLINS: I want to start by asking you, kind of a very basic question. How big of a deal is it that we got this guy -- very big deal, right?

KUSHNER: A real big deal. He's number three on the list, KSM, as he's known, is important, because he's the operations coordinator, who we've been wanting him for quite some time. He's related to Ramzi Yousef, he's his uncle, the first mastermind of the '93 bombing of the World Trade Center. He has involvement in the embassy bombings, certainly in the USS Cole, and other events. His laptop and telephone communications we've intercepted is a treasure trove, really, of information...

COLLINS: ... right, and Harvey, let's talk for just a second about what exactly it is that we do have now, since we've gotten him. We've got his computer, and what else?

KUSHNER: We probably have cell communications, cell phone communications, which directly link him to bin Laden. There's been talk that, short as a month ago, he's had contact with him -- so, ever since we've been looking for bin Laden, this is probably our closest link to him.

We have others, Mohammed Atef, who we kill -- we killed, military coordinator Zubaydah, but this guy, KSM, is significant because he's a direct associate of bin Laden.

COLLINS: And it's possible that because of that, he may not only know where he is -- of course, that's a vital question -- but at least may have had recent communications with him, possibly, right?

KUSHNER: Right, not only with him, but possibly with his sons -- Saad, certainly, who is looked upon as the new head of al Qaeda, and Mohammed, the second son, who's also considered a player in al Qaeda. So, it's significant that KSM is in our custody, because we should work him for information that could lead to bin Laden himself.

But that's the good news. The bad news is that al Qaeda, the minute somebody's captured, reverses its plans. Things that are in the pipeline are taken out of the pipeline. So, this is something we have to be aware of.

COLLINS: And how quickly can they do that?

KUSHNER: Very quickly. Al Qaeda, right from the get-go has always had a structure, but it's also had a very fluid dynamic attached to it, in which it would reinvent itself. And it was very small, the relationships between people were unknown. It was sort of followed the model used here in the United States and domestic terrorism called leaderless resistance, where small cells would spontaneously erupt and take on their own agendas.

COLLINS: And you know, Harvey, there has been a lot of criticism for possibly going ahead with the war on terrorism, because some people feel like, as I'm sure you've heard this, the war on terror has not been completed. I don't know if it ever will be completed, but does this show that we could possibly fight these two wars at the same time?

KUSHNER: Oh, absolutely, it shows we could walk and chew bubble gum. Certainly with the capture of KSM, it shows that we still have links to intelligence agencies in Pakistan, that could be of help to us, and now we could open up our massive front, not only against al Qaeda, but against Iraq, at which the relationships in somewhat of a skewer. And this indeed tells us that we've made significant progress. We've taken out the first 10, 15 people, with exception of Zawahiri, No. 2, and bin Laden himself.

So, I think KSM was indeed significant, and it does -- should show the American public that our law enforcement agencies both here and abroad have a pipeline directly with other agencies who apprehend these terrorists who are involved in the 9/11 attacks.

COLLINS: And quickly, Harvey, will the United States war on terrorism ever be finished?

KUSHNER: You know, that -- it's tough to say. We certainly made tremendous inroads into the structure side of al Qaeda, but I would think in the upcoming years ahead, we're still going to be faced with this no matter what we do with Iraq, and certainly with al Qaeda. This is a problem that, you know, can't be solved in a day, a week, a month, a year, and even a decade.

COLLINS: All right, Harvey Kushner, with Saferamerica.com, thanks so much for your insight this morning.

KUSHNER: Thank you.

COLLINS: We appreciate it.

KUSHNER: Pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com