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American Morning
Pentagon Says Test of Newest Weapon Success
Aired March 12, 2003 - 07:24 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: They call it the mother of all bombs and the Pentagon says its test of the newest weapon in the U.S. arsenal was a success. The test was conducted yesterday at an air force base in Florida. But U.S. officials hope the big bang was heard in Baghdad. The bomb, officially called the massive ordinance air blast, or MOAB, may never be used in Iraq. But military planners think it could have a psychological impact.
Joining us this morning from Albuquerque, New Mexico, our military analyst, Retired Army Brigadier General David Grange.
Good morning, General.
Thanks for joining us.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RETIRED): Good morning.
ZAHN: I know you have witnessed this particular bomb in use. Describe to us the impact of it.
GRANGE: Yes, this, the MOAB is a 21,000 pound bomb improvement of the 15,000 pound Vietnam era daisy cutter. Thirty something plus years later, now used in Afghanistan against hardened targets in the mountains around Tora Bora and elsewhere. And it has a psychological and a killing effect, obviously, and it can be used for other purposes, as well.
ZAHN: How effective is its killing effect?
GRANGE: Well, what it does is it just, you can, it can be used above ground, which this test is an example of, to, it sucks the air out of the area. It'll kill people, but it'll also destroy equipment. It can also be, there's some expectation to use this in a penetrating manner to take out hardened bunkers underground.
But it can also be used as an example to clear minefields, to provide a gap in a strip of mine field so forces can pass through. It can also be used to put out, let's say, a fire. If oil is lit in trench lines by an enemy force, this bomb as it sucks the air out of the area can neutralize a fire.
So it can be used for several different types of targets.
ZAHN: So you talked about the variety of uses the MOAB has. But some military sources tell CNN that the armed forces are contemplating using the MOAB as much for its psychological impact as for a deadly effect. Do you agree with that assessment?
GRANGE: Absolutely. I mean the psychological effect to the kinetic effect is probably three to one. It's more, the psychological effect gets people to surrender, to capitulate, to decide not to fight, to say that their future is hopeless unless they surrender. So the psychological impact is more important, actually, than the kinetic impact.
ZAHN: There's a very interesting piece in the "Wall Street Journal" today written by a man who, a counterintelligence officer from years ago who says he believes most of Saddam's family -- or, excuse me -- army will not fight. And he says, "They will opt for celebration, not sacrifice."
What do you think?
GRANGE: Well, I think a good portion will surrender. I think that, you know, the other day there was an article where the British forces were, or the British, yes, the British forces were having a live fire exercise on the Iraqi-Kuwaiti border and a bunch of Iraqis surrendered and the Brits said well, we haven't started fighting yet. You need to go back. They already tried to surrender.
So I think that article is probably correct. And there's going to be some hard core resistance. But I think the majority will surrender.
ZAHN: A final question for you. We've got 10 seconds left. I'm sure you heard a little bit of what the prime minister had to say today.
Do you see a scenario where British troops would not join U.S. troops if there were a war?
GRANGE: You know, that could happen, Paula. But, you know -- and every country has to be able to go it alone. That's just, every country has that responsibility for itself. But like Winston Churchill said, the worst thing about fighting alongside allies in war is going to war without allies.
So I think every effort is going to be made to bring the British on board.
ZAHN: Gen. David Grange, as always, good to see you.
Sorry to have to get you up so early out there in Albuquerque this morning.
GRANGE: That's OK.
ZAHN: Appreciate your time.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 12, 2003 - 07:24 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: They call it the mother of all bombs and the Pentagon says its test of the newest weapon in the U.S. arsenal was a success. The test was conducted yesterday at an air force base in Florida. But U.S. officials hope the big bang was heard in Baghdad. The bomb, officially called the massive ordinance air blast, or MOAB, may never be used in Iraq. But military planners think it could have a psychological impact.
Joining us this morning from Albuquerque, New Mexico, our military analyst, Retired Army Brigadier General David Grange.
Good morning, General.
Thanks for joining us.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RETIRED): Good morning.
ZAHN: I know you have witnessed this particular bomb in use. Describe to us the impact of it.
GRANGE: Yes, this, the MOAB is a 21,000 pound bomb improvement of the 15,000 pound Vietnam era daisy cutter. Thirty something plus years later, now used in Afghanistan against hardened targets in the mountains around Tora Bora and elsewhere. And it has a psychological and a killing effect, obviously, and it can be used for other purposes, as well.
ZAHN: How effective is its killing effect?
GRANGE: Well, what it does is it just, you can, it can be used above ground, which this test is an example of, to, it sucks the air out of the area. It'll kill people, but it'll also destroy equipment. It can also be, there's some expectation to use this in a penetrating manner to take out hardened bunkers underground.
But it can also be used as an example to clear minefields, to provide a gap in a strip of mine field so forces can pass through. It can also be used to put out, let's say, a fire. If oil is lit in trench lines by an enemy force, this bomb as it sucks the air out of the area can neutralize a fire.
So it can be used for several different types of targets.
ZAHN: So you talked about the variety of uses the MOAB has. But some military sources tell CNN that the armed forces are contemplating using the MOAB as much for its psychological impact as for a deadly effect. Do you agree with that assessment?
GRANGE: Absolutely. I mean the psychological effect to the kinetic effect is probably three to one. It's more, the psychological effect gets people to surrender, to capitulate, to decide not to fight, to say that their future is hopeless unless they surrender. So the psychological impact is more important, actually, than the kinetic impact.
ZAHN: There's a very interesting piece in the "Wall Street Journal" today written by a man who, a counterintelligence officer from years ago who says he believes most of Saddam's family -- or, excuse me -- army will not fight. And he says, "They will opt for celebration, not sacrifice."
What do you think?
GRANGE: Well, I think a good portion will surrender. I think that, you know, the other day there was an article where the British forces were, or the British, yes, the British forces were having a live fire exercise on the Iraqi-Kuwaiti border and a bunch of Iraqis surrendered and the Brits said well, we haven't started fighting yet. You need to go back. They already tried to surrender.
So I think that article is probably correct. And there's going to be some hard core resistance. But I think the majority will surrender.
ZAHN: A final question for you. We've got 10 seconds left. I'm sure you heard a little bit of what the prime minister had to say today.
Do you see a scenario where British troops would not join U.S. troops if there were a war?
GRANGE: You know, that could happen, Paula. But, you know -- and every country has to be able to go it alone. That's just, every country has that responsibility for itself. But like Winston Churchill said, the worst thing about fighting alongside allies in war is going to war without allies.
So I think every effort is going to be made to bring the British on board.
ZAHN: Gen. David Grange, as always, good to see you.
Sorry to have to get you up so early out there in Albuquerque this morning.
GRANGE: That's OK.
ZAHN: Appreciate your time.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
