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Police Searching For Answers in Smart Case

Aired March 13, 2003 - 11:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Now that Elizabeth Smart is safely back with her family, police are searching for answers about her disappearance and the two suspects now in custody.
Joining us with some insight into the case is criminologist Casey Jordan. She's in our New York bureau.

Good morning.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Hi, Carol.

COSTELLO: There are so many questions associated with this. But you know, one of the first things that came to my mind was the Patricia Hearst case.

JORDAN: Absolutely. There are very, very few examples in our history and in our studies of criminology where we see people, or especially young women of this age, being recovered successfully. Patty Hearst was different on some levels, but there are some similarities, and a lot of it is conjecture at this point.

But what we learned from the Hearst case in terms of mental anguish, the isolation, the mind bending, if you want to call it brainwashing that Patty Hearst endured, I think a lot of people are wondering to what extent that might have occur with Elizabeth Smart in this case.

COSTELLO: That's a good question, because we've seen pictures of Elizabeth Smart with her abductors at a party and it seems like she could have easily gotten away. Supposedly they were in a park together, just seated at a bench. No one was around. She could have asked somebody for help, but it didn't.

JORDAN: By the time we knew these were going on, two or three months had passed and she had disappeared. What happened in those first few months, even those first few days and weeks after her disappearance are key to understand she'd be complicitous with her captors in the future. And we know, after a certain amount of mind influence is conducted, most captors do begin to emphasize with their captors, with the people who have taken them. This is pure survival. The mind will do anything to live, and if she was threatened with harm or with death, or if her family were threatened, certainly if she was subjected to physical, emotional or sexual abuse, then she'd do whatever she has to do to survive, and if this includes believing these captors are good people and she's better off with them, then that's what her mind would do. COSTELLO: Well, let's talk about her alleged captors, I should say. This Brian David Mitchell. He went by the name Emanuel, which is Hebrew for Jesus. He thought he was Jesus. He emulated Jesus, or said he did. What does that tell you about him?

JORDAN: Well, to all normal people, this is going to be clearly delusional thinking. This man believes that he is God or a representative of God. And he clearly has some mental health issues. Whether or not that is going to mitigate culpability in any way remains to be seen.

COSTELLO: But I guess I was asking you from the other angle as to -- I don't know, was he charismatic enough to convince her to stay with him and his wife?

JORDAN: Absolutely. Clearly, he thinks that he is a messiah of some sort and that sort of charisma can easily transfer on to those around him. We see this constantly with cult leaders, and while we don't know he had enough of a following to call him a cult leader, the same kind of processes by which one charismatic leader attracts followers to him could easily have been used on the very susceptible mind of a 14-year-old child.

COSTELLO: We don't know much about the woman with her, except this was her second marriage. She had children from a previous marriage. The stepdaughter, her daughter, did not get along with him and left at age 14. And there is some thought, and I'm take this from the "Salt Lake Tribune," there is some thoughts the women may have wanted Elizabeth Smart as a substitute for the daughter that ran away.

JORDAN: Yes, the dynamics of that are a little bit frightening, because the indication is he was looking for a second wife. We know that there are cultures, particularly in that particular area of Utah, where polygamy is acceptable. I don't know if he actually catered to that notion, but I think the implications are rather frightening to think that he was looking at Elizabeth as a second wife. Perhaps to his common law wife or girlfriend was looking for a substitute for herself. I think that it's a little frightening to think there might have been a sexual abuse implication to that. That remains to be seen.

And I think at all costs, we need to give Elizabeth as much privacy in this. We don't really need to know everything that happened. We're just grateful that she's back and she's safe.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. Casey Jordan, thanks for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.

JORDAN: Happy to be here.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 13, 2003 - 11:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Now that Elizabeth Smart is safely back with her family, police are searching for answers about her disappearance and the two suspects now in custody.
Joining us with some insight into the case is criminologist Casey Jordan. She's in our New York bureau.

Good morning.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Hi, Carol.

COSTELLO: There are so many questions associated with this. But you know, one of the first things that came to my mind was the Patricia Hearst case.

JORDAN: Absolutely. There are very, very few examples in our history and in our studies of criminology where we see people, or especially young women of this age, being recovered successfully. Patty Hearst was different on some levels, but there are some similarities, and a lot of it is conjecture at this point.

But what we learned from the Hearst case in terms of mental anguish, the isolation, the mind bending, if you want to call it brainwashing that Patty Hearst endured, I think a lot of people are wondering to what extent that might have occur with Elizabeth Smart in this case.

COSTELLO: That's a good question, because we've seen pictures of Elizabeth Smart with her abductors at a party and it seems like she could have easily gotten away. Supposedly they were in a park together, just seated at a bench. No one was around. She could have asked somebody for help, but it didn't.

JORDAN: By the time we knew these were going on, two or three months had passed and she had disappeared. What happened in those first few months, even those first few days and weeks after her disappearance are key to understand she'd be complicitous with her captors in the future. And we know, after a certain amount of mind influence is conducted, most captors do begin to emphasize with their captors, with the people who have taken them. This is pure survival. The mind will do anything to live, and if she was threatened with harm or with death, or if her family were threatened, certainly if she was subjected to physical, emotional or sexual abuse, then she'd do whatever she has to do to survive, and if this includes believing these captors are good people and she's better off with them, then that's what her mind would do. COSTELLO: Well, let's talk about her alleged captors, I should say. This Brian David Mitchell. He went by the name Emanuel, which is Hebrew for Jesus. He thought he was Jesus. He emulated Jesus, or said he did. What does that tell you about him?

JORDAN: Well, to all normal people, this is going to be clearly delusional thinking. This man believes that he is God or a representative of God. And he clearly has some mental health issues. Whether or not that is going to mitigate culpability in any way remains to be seen.

COSTELLO: But I guess I was asking you from the other angle as to -- I don't know, was he charismatic enough to convince her to stay with him and his wife?

JORDAN: Absolutely. Clearly, he thinks that he is a messiah of some sort and that sort of charisma can easily transfer on to those around him. We see this constantly with cult leaders, and while we don't know he had enough of a following to call him a cult leader, the same kind of processes by which one charismatic leader attracts followers to him could easily have been used on the very susceptible mind of a 14-year-old child.

COSTELLO: We don't know much about the woman with her, except this was her second marriage. She had children from a previous marriage. The stepdaughter, her daughter, did not get along with him and left at age 14. And there is some thought, and I'm take this from the "Salt Lake Tribune," there is some thoughts the women may have wanted Elizabeth Smart as a substitute for the daughter that ran away.

JORDAN: Yes, the dynamics of that are a little bit frightening, because the indication is he was looking for a second wife. We know that there are cultures, particularly in that particular area of Utah, where polygamy is acceptable. I don't know if he actually catered to that notion, but I think the implications are rather frightening to think that he was looking at Elizabeth as a second wife. Perhaps to his common law wife or girlfriend was looking for a substitute for herself. I think that it's a little frightening to think there might have been a sexual abuse implication to that. That remains to be seen.

And I think at all costs, we need to give Elizabeth as much privacy in this. We don't really need to know everything that happened. We're just grateful that she's back and she's safe.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. Casey Jordan, thanks for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.

JORDAN: Happy to be here.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com