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CNN Live Today
Discussion with Former Assistant Secretary of State James Rubin
Aired March 18, 2003 - 10:20 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Now turning to the issue of the diplomacy that is going to be taking place -- whether or not it does in face of this war. Joining us for that is Jamie Rubin. He's the former assistant secretary of state for public affairs.
Jamie, always good to have you with us this morning. And very curious about your insight.
First of all, your impressions of the speech that we heard last night? Don't think I've heard your assessment.
JAMIE RUBIN, FMR. ASST. SECY. OF STATE: Well, I think the president made very clear that the diplomacy is over, and gave this ultimatum. I think he was very resolute. I think he is very clear on what has to happen. He began to talk about the importance of rebuilding Iraq, and working with allies to do that. I think a lot of what's going on behind the scenes on the diplomatic front is no longer a discussion about this war. I think publicly you're seeing France and Germany and other countries and even the White House to some extent still in a process of explaining their position, which I think has a surreal quality to it, given that we know that this war is just hours, if not a couple of days, away.
Behind the scenes, everyone is looking for a diplomatic way to bring everybody back together, and I think the hope is in Paris, and Germany, and London and in Washington that we can use the United Nations involvement after the war is over in the new Iraq after Saddam Hussein is gone as a way of people saying to each other to let bygones be bygones.
But the key diplomacy really is how will France and Germany talk about the war when it's going on? And if France and Germany continue to raise doubts and criticism and question marks and speculations about the war while American troops are fighting, and hopefully not, but possibly risking their lives and dying even, in a war; if our allies in Germany and France can't find a way to put aside their opposition to this war and say they seek an early victory with the minimum loss of life for the United States, then I think we're going to see a major, major rift open up between the United States and Germany and France that will make this previous rift seem small indeed.
HARRIS: We're going to call that a teaser for our audience now, because we're going to take a break. In the meantime, we still have to get to this event in Washington, Jamie, Secretary Ridge is going to be coming out and talking about Operation Liberty Shield. Jamie Rubin, you stand by right there. We want to come back to you and continue this conversation in just a bit.
Folks, live coverage coming out of Washington in just a moment, so don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: And we are back now, 24 after the hour, we're still waiting for the commencement of this press conference in Washington D.C. The Homeland Security Secretary Ridge is going to be coming out the brief us all on Operation Liberty Shield. We'll learn some more about that once that gets under way.
But in the meantime, we want to pick up our discussion once again with the former assistant secretary of state, Jamie Rubin, joining us now to continue talking about the diplomacy that is still, or perhaps it is in the offing, once this war does get under way.
Jamie, just a moment ago, you said that one of the key elements of diplomacy is what Germany and France says, or how they talk about this war after it commences and while they're standing by on the sidelines waiting for it to end.
But doesn't a lot of what they say depend upon what they hear from the U.S. as well? Doesn't it really behoove those in the U.S. that are criticizing France right now to pretty much cool that rhetoric as well?
RUBIN: Yes, I certainly hope that cooler heads will prevail in all of the major capitals, and that once everybody is finished expressing their positions of principle, what they would have, should have, thought could have happened, everyone will realize that the war is about to begin, and that the United States will be better off if France, and Germany and our other allies who disagreed with us on this can work with us on the outcome, and that France and Germany will be better off if they find a way to talk about this war so that they regret that it occurred, if that's their view, but they ask America and call for America to have an early victory with a minimum loss of life. And I just hope those words begin to come out of the key capital.
HARRIS: Yes, and I find it more and more interesting to me every hour, you know, as we keep hearing more and more fingers pointed at France, and not much being said about the U.S.'s neighbors, Mexico and Canada, still did not come on board, but that's another conversation for another day.
Let's talk about, is it necessary even, or possible to mend fences with key allies that perhaps have been broken to some degree while a war is being waged? I'm mentioning specifically here, Russia. A lot has been put into the relationship between President Bush and President Putin and these two countries, and a lot of damage it seems has been done there in the U.N. Security chamber. Is it possible to mend the relationships with Russia, with France, with China and Germany while a war is being battled? RUBIN: Well, it's very difficult, because when the United States is engaged in military operations, the highest levels of our government are very focused on that operation, and will not brook any criticism of it, and expect friends to speak positively in favor of early victory. So I think your question is exactly right, Leon, and it's hard to see how the top leadership will do so.
What I hope is that the diplomats in the State Department begin to work, number one, on a plan for reconstruction and U.N. involvement in the new Iraq, and begin to work closer with France, and Russia and these other countries, and the president and Tony Blair here in London have suggested they're going to do that, work together on humanitarian issues, and if God forbid there are some terrible tragedies in this war, that involve the use of chemical, biological weapons, then maybe these other countries, as you suggested earlier, will want to assist in dealing with him.
HARRIS: I wish we could go on. I would love to talk about the Tony Blair situation, because he really is on a hot seat right now, but we have to move on now, because of the live coverage here in Washington.
Thanks as always, Jamie.
RUBIN: Take care, Leon.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Rubin>
Aired March 18, 2003 - 10:20 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Now turning to the issue of the diplomacy that is going to be taking place -- whether or not it does in face of this war. Joining us for that is Jamie Rubin. He's the former assistant secretary of state for public affairs.
Jamie, always good to have you with us this morning. And very curious about your insight.
First of all, your impressions of the speech that we heard last night? Don't think I've heard your assessment.
JAMIE RUBIN, FMR. ASST. SECY. OF STATE: Well, I think the president made very clear that the diplomacy is over, and gave this ultimatum. I think he was very resolute. I think he is very clear on what has to happen. He began to talk about the importance of rebuilding Iraq, and working with allies to do that. I think a lot of what's going on behind the scenes on the diplomatic front is no longer a discussion about this war. I think publicly you're seeing France and Germany and other countries and even the White House to some extent still in a process of explaining their position, which I think has a surreal quality to it, given that we know that this war is just hours, if not a couple of days, away.
Behind the scenes, everyone is looking for a diplomatic way to bring everybody back together, and I think the hope is in Paris, and Germany, and London and in Washington that we can use the United Nations involvement after the war is over in the new Iraq after Saddam Hussein is gone as a way of people saying to each other to let bygones be bygones.
But the key diplomacy really is how will France and Germany talk about the war when it's going on? And if France and Germany continue to raise doubts and criticism and question marks and speculations about the war while American troops are fighting, and hopefully not, but possibly risking their lives and dying even, in a war; if our allies in Germany and France can't find a way to put aside their opposition to this war and say they seek an early victory with the minimum loss of life for the United States, then I think we're going to see a major, major rift open up between the United States and Germany and France that will make this previous rift seem small indeed.
HARRIS: We're going to call that a teaser for our audience now, because we're going to take a break. In the meantime, we still have to get to this event in Washington, Jamie, Secretary Ridge is going to be coming out and talking about Operation Liberty Shield. Jamie Rubin, you stand by right there. We want to come back to you and continue this conversation in just a bit.
Folks, live coverage coming out of Washington in just a moment, so don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: And we are back now, 24 after the hour, we're still waiting for the commencement of this press conference in Washington D.C. The Homeland Security Secretary Ridge is going to be coming out the brief us all on Operation Liberty Shield. We'll learn some more about that once that gets under way.
But in the meantime, we want to pick up our discussion once again with the former assistant secretary of state, Jamie Rubin, joining us now to continue talking about the diplomacy that is still, or perhaps it is in the offing, once this war does get under way.
Jamie, just a moment ago, you said that one of the key elements of diplomacy is what Germany and France says, or how they talk about this war after it commences and while they're standing by on the sidelines waiting for it to end.
But doesn't a lot of what they say depend upon what they hear from the U.S. as well? Doesn't it really behoove those in the U.S. that are criticizing France right now to pretty much cool that rhetoric as well?
RUBIN: Yes, I certainly hope that cooler heads will prevail in all of the major capitals, and that once everybody is finished expressing their positions of principle, what they would have, should have, thought could have happened, everyone will realize that the war is about to begin, and that the United States will be better off if France, and Germany and our other allies who disagreed with us on this can work with us on the outcome, and that France and Germany will be better off if they find a way to talk about this war so that they regret that it occurred, if that's their view, but they ask America and call for America to have an early victory with a minimum loss of life. And I just hope those words begin to come out of the key capital.
HARRIS: Yes, and I find it more and more interesting to me every hour, you know, as we keep hearing more and more fingers pointed at France, and not much being said about the U.S.'s neighbors, Mexico and Canada, still did not come on board, but that's another conversation for another day.
Let's talk about, is it necessary even, or possible to mend fences with key allies that perhaps have been broken to some degree while a war is being waged? I'm mentioning specifically here, Russia. A lot has been put into the relationship between President Bush and President Putin and these two countries, and a lot of damage it seems has been done there in the U.N. Security chamber. Is it possible to mend the relationships with Russia, with France, with China and Germany while a war is being battled? RUBIN: Well, it's very difficult, because when the United States is engaged in military operations, the highest levels of our government are very focused on that operation, and will not brook any criticism of it, and expect friends to speak positively in favor of early victory. So I think your question is exactly right, Leon, and it's hard to see how the top leadership will do so.
What I hope is that the diplomats in the State Department begin to work, number one, on a plan for reconstruction and U.N. involvement in the new Iraq, and begin to work closer with France, and Russia and these other countries, and the president and Tony Blair here in London have suggested they're going to do that, work together on humanitarian issues, and if God forbid there are some terrible tragedies in this war, that involve the use of chemical, biological weapons, then maybe these other countries, as you suggested earlier, will want to assist in dealing with him.
HARRIS: I wish we could go on. I would love to talk about the Tony Blair situation, because he really is on a hot seat right now, but we have to move on now, because of the live coverage here in Washington.
Thanks as always, Jamie.
RUBIN: Take care, Leon.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Rubin>
