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CNN Live Today

Wisdom of War

Aired March 19, 2003 - 10:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Let's go to our Rula Amin, standing by in the exclusive location on the border of Jordan and Iraq. Rula's going to give us a picture of how things look there today.
Hello, Rula.

RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Leon.

This is the closest any journalist has been able to get in terms of being so close to Iraq on this boarder. Behind me, you can see the arch. That is the entrance where all cars and oil tankers go to Iraq. This is the Jordanian side. It's called "The Border of Dignity." On the Iraqi side, just about a mile from here, it's called the "Border of Kribil (ph)," and usually, there's a much more longer line of car trying to get into Iraq. Today, it's very few cars.

However, surprisingly, we did see some cars with Iraqi passengers going inside, trying to go into Iraq as well as oil tankers carrying Iraqi oil back to Jordan. These truck drivers are insisting they're going to go on this road as long as it's open. It's very windy and very -- there's a very strong sand storm here that has crippled efforts on the Jordanian side to prepare the ground here to receive any refugees who have tried to flee Iraq in case there is a war. They would be coming from here. The strong wind and sandstorm crippled efforts, and they have not been able to put up the tents yet -- Leon.

HARRIS: Rula Amin, we'll let you take cover from the elements and get back to you soon.

Rula Amin, reporting live there from the border of Jordan and Iraq. Only CNN is there -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good for her for stay something and accepting that assignment. Very courageous, all of our correspondents.

We all know Prime Minister Tony Blair put his office on the line in support of invading Iraq. The British parliament, after 12 long hours of debate, finally went along with Blair, voting for an invasion, but many Britons remain conflicted.

Joining us live from London, Sir Malcolm Rifkind, who was Britain's defense minister during the first Gulf War.

Welcome.

SIR MALCOLM RIFKIND, FMR. BRITISH DEFENSE MINISTER: Thank you very much.

COSTELLO: Sir Malcolm, you don't agree with how the U.S. and Britain handled this, but say war is necessary now -- why?

RIFKIND: Well, I do have criticisms over what's happened over the last few months. I think there was a rather cavalier approach of the United States toward its allies taking support for granted, and that wasn't forthcoming. But that's now history. The choice which has to be made now, is whether the battle which we're all involved in now against terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, how that can best be served. I'm very willing to endorse the action being taken by President Bush and by Prime Minister Blair to deal with that problem by military means. Clearly there is now no choice available.

COSTELLO: Right. Why is that? Why can't the United States and Britain turn back now?

RIFKIND: Maybe because you have 200,000 troops in the region. I believe that if these troops were know to be withdrawn by the United States, that will such a humiliation for the United States that it would give great pleasure and satisfaction to Saddam to Kim Jong-Il all of the other dictators around the world. The reality is that to deal with terror up in an ideal situation you need both the United Nations legitimacy and also the United States military power. If you can't have both, I would rather have American military power than the United Nations. That's the choice we have to make in the last few days and I think the right choice is being made.

COSTELLO: Most say it's a quick war, and if it's clean, maybe world opinion will change. I want to listen to former American Defense Secretary William Cohen to see if you agree with this assessment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM COHEN, FMR. DEFENSE SECY.: There is another issue that we have to take into account, and that is what kind of stomach the American people have for seeing the level of killing that's about to take place, given the massive firepower the United States is prepared to unleash. The shock and awe is going to involve some 3,000 missiles being unleashed within the first 48 hours. That's an awful lot of firepower that's going to be landing on top of Iraqi soldiers, and some of it killing innocent civilians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Sir Malcolm, if there are many, many casualties, will world opinion turn ever more against the United States and Britain?

RIFKIND: I think there is an assumption at the moment that this war can be over, the fighting part can be over in week, not months. If that turned out to be untrue, if the Iraqis were loyal to Saddam Hussein and the battle continued for weeks and weeks to come, yes, I think that would have very serious repercussions. I don't think it's going to happen. I think all of the information evidence we have is that the Iraqi forces will dessert Saddam Hussein fairly quickly. But if that turns out to be incorrect, that that would have a damaging affect, given the lack of United Nations support for what the United States and United Kingdom are doing.

COSTELLO: There will be some 45,000 British forces in the Persian Gulf eventually. Will that include the British special forces?

RIFKIND: Yes, there are British special forces. They are probably in Iraq already as we speak. The special forces, they tend to operate behind enemy lines. My guess, I don't have special information on this, my guess is they probably have been in Iraq for several days, if not two, three weeks.

COSTELLO: Especially in very sensitive areas like the no-fly zones?

RIFKIND: Well, I don't have all of the information as to exactly where. But I suspect they will be providing very valuable information from within Iraq that will be of assistance to American and British forces when the war proper begins.

RIFKIND: All right, Sir Malcolm Rifkind, thanks for joining us this morning. We really appreciate it -- Leon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 19, 2003 - 10:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Let's go to our Rula Amin, standing by in the exclusive location on the border of Jordan and Iraq. Rula's going to give us a picture of how things look there today.
Hello, Rula.

RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Leon.

This is the closest any journalist has been able to get in terms of being so close to Iraq on this boarder. Behind me, you can see the arch. That is the entrance where all cars and oil tankers go to Iraq. This is the Jordanian side. It's called "The Border of Dignity." On the Iraqi side, just about a mile from here, it's called the "Border of Kribil (ph)," and usually, there's a much more longer line of car trying to get into Iraq. Today, it's very few cars.

However, surprisingly, we did see some cars with Iraqi passengers going inside, trying to go into Iraq as well as oil tankers carrying Iraqi oil back to Jordan. These truck drivers are insisting they're going to go on this road as long as it's open. It's very windy and very -- there's a very strong sand storm here that has crippled efforts on the Jordanian side to prepare the ground here to receive any refugees who have tried to flee Iraq in case there is a war. They would be coming from here. The strong wind and sandstorm crippled efforts, and they have not been able to put up the tents yet -- Leon.

HARRIS: Rula Amin, we'll let you take cover from the elements and get back to you soon.

Rula Amin, reporting live there from the border of Jordan and Iraq. Only CNN is there -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good for her for stay something and accepting that assignment. Very courageous, all of our correspondents.

We all know Prime Minister Tony Blair put his office on the line in support of invading Iraq. The British parliament, after 12 long hours of debate, finally went along with Blair, voting for an invasion, but many Britons remain conflicted.

Joining us live from London, Sir Malcolm Rifkind, who was Britain's defense minister during the first Gulf War.

Welcome.

SIR MALCOLM RIFKIND, FMR. BRITISH DEFENSE MINISTER: Thank you very much.

COSTELLO: Sir Malcolm, you don't agree with how the U.S. and Britain handled this, but say war is necessary now -- why?

RIFKIND: Well, I do have criticisms over what's happened over the last few months. I think there was a rather cavalier approach of the United States toward its allies taking support for granted, and that wasn't forthcoming. But that's now history. The choice which has to be made now, is whether the battle which we're all involved in now against terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, how that can best be served. I'm very willing to endorse the action being taken by President Bush and by Prime Minister Blair to deal with that problem by military means. Clearly there is now no choice available.

COSTELLO: Right. Why is that? Why can't the United States and Britain turn back now?

RIFKIND: Maybe because you have 200,000 troops in the region. I believe that if these troops were know to be withdrawn by the United States, that will such a humiliation for the United States that it would give great pleasure and satisfaction to Saddam to Kim Jong-Il all of the other dictators around the world. The reality is that to deal with terror up in an ideal situation you need both the United Nations legitimacy and also the United States military power. If you can't have both, I would rather have American military power than the United Nations. That's the choice we have to make in the last few days and I think the right choice is being made.

COSTELLO: Most say it's a quick war, and if it's clean, maybe world opinion will change. I want to listen to former American Defense Secretary William Cohen to see if you agree with this assessment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM COHEN, FMR. DEFENSE SECY.: There is another issue that we have to take into account, and that is what kind of stomach the American people have for seeing the level of killing that's about to take place, given the massive firepower the United States is prepared to unleash. The shock and awe is going to involve some 3,000 missiles being unleashed within the first 48 hours. That's an awful lot of firepower that's going to be landing on top of Iraqi soldiers, and some of it killing innocent civilians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Sir Malcolm, if there are many, many casualties, will world opinion turn ever more against the United States and Britain?

RIFKIND: I think there is an assumption at the moment that this war can be over, the fighting part can be over in week, not months. If that turned out to be untrue, if the Iraqis were loyal to Saddam Hussein and the battle continued for weeks and weeks to come, yes, I think that would have very serious repercussions. I don't think it's going to happen. I think all of the information evidence we have is that the Iraqi forces will dessert Saddam Hussein fairly quickly. But if that turns out to be incorrect, that that would have a damaging affect, given the lack of United Nations support for what the United States and United Kingdom are doing.

COSTELLO: There will be some 45,000 British forces in the Persian Gulf eventually. Will that include the British special forces?

RIFKIND: Yes, there are British special forces. They are probably in Iraq already as we speak. The special forces, they tend to operate behind enemy lines. My guess, I don't have special information on this, my guess is they probably have been in Iraq for several days, if not two, three weeks.

COSTELLO: Especially in very sensitive areas like the no-fly zones?

RIFKIND: Well, I don't have all of the information as to exactly where. But I suspect they will be providing very valuable information from within Iraq that will be of assistance to American and British forces when the war proper begins.

RIFKIND: All right, Sir Malcolm Rifkind, thanks for joining us this morning. We really appreciate it -- Leon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com