Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Today
Huge Explosions Heard in Baghdad; Analysis of War Tactics
Aired March 20, 2003 - 13:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: All of us are riveted on these live pictures coming out of Baghdad through the night scope, and occasionally we're also showing you pictures from Al Jazeera television. And this is, as Wolf has been saying, a building that appears to be burning. We've had various shots of it. There appears to be smoke rising out of this building and at least two other locations in Baghdad.
Our Nic Robertson, of course, on the ground there, limited in what he is able to say because of Iraqi officials who are with him, but we are trying through these pictures just to give you the best sense that we have of what's going on the ground -- going on, on the ground.
Is it Nic or is it John that I'm to go to now?
Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Judy, we can see from where we're standing those buildings still burning, the fires really seeming to get ahold and smoke continuing to come out of those buildings.
The anti-aircraft gunfire is still going up towards the edge of the city here just a little -- just a small amount of fire, a small number of tracers rising into the air. Very interesting to see when the attack happened, there was a lot of intense anti-aircraft activity here in the center where the attack was going on. Very soon after that attack ceased, the anti-aircraft gunfire in this area all stopped almost immediately, and now again another indication that this time a very strong command and control and discipline with the anti-aircraft, the gun batteries in the city at this time -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: Nic, some of us saw an Associated Press report to the effect that there was some sense that maybe there's been a split, a break in communications if you will, between the center and outlying military. I presume from where you are that's something that's very difficult for you to have -- you know, to be able to comment on or have information on. But from your perspective, you say you're seeing -- your sense is that they are responding in some coordinated way?
ROBERTSON: That's exactly what we're seeing here in the city of Baghdad, a response to the threat, responded to in a coordinated and apparently disciplined way. Fire when the threat is close, no anti- aircraft fire when the threat has moved on. Certainly, Iraq's government fearing earlier this week said they could lose some elements of their command and control structure.
That's why it appears the government moved over the weekend to set up the country in four distinct regions, so that should it be necessary to divulge military and political command, the country was ready (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to do without that, the south of Iraq, the Basra area bordering with Kuwait put under the control of Ali Hasan Almatid (ph), a cousin of President Saddam Hussein, the north next to where the Kurdish territory is put under the control of Isad Hebrahim (ph), the vice chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council. Baghdad is under control of Qusay Hussein, President Saddam Hussein's younger son, and who also controls the special Republican guard.
The anti-aircraft gunfire here in the city, at least in the areas we can see at this particular moment, does appear to have stopped right now -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: Nic, while we're looking at these live pictures from Baghdad through the night scope, let me just quickly take you back to the video you told us about a little over an hour ago of what appeared to be fresh video of Saddam Hussein meeting with his foreign minister, Tariq Aziz, with other officials around the table. We were showing that video for a short time.
Were you able to get enough -- any sort of sense from looking at that of whether that is new?
ROBERTSON: There are several indications. There are, obviously, and have been recently, many such meetings. Some of the things that made this meeting different, it was at a smaller table than normal. Everyone was in military uniform. President Saddam Hussein has not been in military uniform for over two years, excepting his appearance this morning and an appearance on Iraqi television yesterday.
Also the noticeable absentee from that meeting was Izad Ibrahim (ph), the vice chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council. He has been put in control of the northern region of Iraq, possibly the very fact that he wasn't at that meeting an indication that he may be closer -- he may be in the north. We don't know that. But he would normally, normally have been present at such a meeting.
So possibly that is, again, another indicator that what this particular video of this particular meeting was a meeting that happened quite recently -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: Clearly that video, Nic, of great interest to U.S. officials who want to know if Saddam or if any of the people close to him, were affected by that missile strike earlier today.
Nic, if you could, just back up for us and describe what you've seen over the last hour or so there in Baghdad.
ROBERTSON: Judy, it began with the warning anti-aircraft sirens. Then 12, perhaps 15 minutes later, we heard a detonation towards the south of the city, then began to see anti-aircraft gunfire erupting perhaps within about 20 or 25 minutes of the air raids warning going off. That's when there were the heavy detonations, the impacts in the center of Baghdad here. And since then, the buildings -- at least one of the buildings that was affected continuing to burn quite intensively at this particular moment and smoke rising into the air from that building. The other buildings that appear to have been hit, we don't see smoke rising from those areas at this particular time -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: All right, Nic Robertson continuing to report for us live from Baghdad. He is our eyes and ears there right now, as we are riveted by these pictures coming in from Baghdad where it is getting well on into the evening.
WOODRUFF: Wolf, I know and I assume the U.S. military is looking at these pictures every bit as anxiously as we are.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: These are confirmation -- these are live pictures for the U.S. military, confirming that their bombs have indeed hit certain targets. They can see CNN just as readily as all of us can, and it's always impressive to me -- I remember from the first Gulf War many Pentagon officials saying to me at the time, we knew we hit the targets, they said, once we saw those pictures live on CNN. And we're seeing these buildings now on fire, buildings that have been bombed by U.S. either Tomahawk cruise missiles or -- those are the unmanned missiles -- or by bombs that were precision-guided bombs that were targeted by U.S. warplanes.
I think General Grange is standing by, General David Grange, our military analyst.
General Grange, when you see this -- I was reminded of what President Bush said last night in his speech. He told the American people "this will not be a campaign of half measures and we will accept no outcome but victory." It looks like this is not necessarily a half measure.
GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, not at all. But, again, with the number of hits that it appears have taken place around Baghdad, it's still not the main effort. It's clear with the Marines that they were reported, that Marines expeditionary force or elements there of, crossed the line of departure into Iraq. We, again, don't know if that's the main attack, a supporting effort, a feint, or just reconnaissance moving through the area that may be moving back. And that's doctrinally the different types of things the units could do on the ground, and of course we don't know what that is yet.
BLITZER: All right, General Grange, stand by for a second.
John king is at the White House. He's got some additional information -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is the White House extraordinarily reluctant to talk about operational details. It says all such details will come from the Pentagon. We have been talking to some senior officials here. One official familiar with the presentation Mr. Bush received this morning from Defense Secretary Rumsfeld told us things would be ramping up, quote, "fairly quickly." Another senior official I spoke to as, Judy, was speaking to Nic Robertson in Baghdad said he could confirm there was a significant escalation underway in and around Baghdad and elsewhere. This official refused to give any other detail, saying operational security is of course critical. A third official said he had been told things would escalate but take, quote, "several days to unfold."
We should note for our views, that the president has signed a broad order giving generals in the field the authority to execute the battle plan. The president is being consulted on the big decision and of course being kept inform constantly to the developments. But the generals in the generals have the authority to execute the battle plan as we watches these pictures. One more footnote, Wolf, the president is to speak to the media today during a meeting with his cabinet. We expect the president's remarks about one hour from now, perhaps an assessment from the president in how things are going in the second day here with war with Iraq -- Wolf.
BLITZER: The chain of command going from the commander-in-chief, the president of the United States, to the secretary of defense, to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and then to the Commander General Tommy Franks.
Is that correct, general -- Grange?
Is that how the chain of command goes, from the president down to Tommy Franks?
GRANGE: Actually, it goes through the secretary of defense, right to General Franks, with the chairman as an adviser, of course, because of his position with all the Joint Chiefs of Staff. But I think what is very pleasant to hear is that, in fact that, once the OK was given if the conduct of the campaign, the operational campaign in that theater is being conducted by General Frank, reporting certain critical items through his chain of command, but fighting the war as he's been trained and his subordinates have been trained to do, that's a wonderful thing for military personnel to hear in a theater.
BLITZER: Finally, General Grange, I want to throw out one idea to you and run it by you. I know you're not surprised to see elements of the first Marine Expeditionary Forces, our Barbara Starr reporting from the Pentagon, now moving into Southern Iraq, crossing the border into Southern Iraq. Moving in simultaneously with this air campaign that is under way in Iraq. But given the fact that earlier in day in Kuwait there were Iraqi missile attacks against targets in the Northern part of Kuwait and elsewhere, do you think it's possible that the U.S. simply decide General Franks to accelerate the ground assault into Southern Iraq in order to deal with the potential of artillery or short-range missile attacks into Kuwait?
GRANGE: Could very well be. What happens on a time line is that the local commander can slide the time on this scale, these key events, they call it, this key event check list, back and forth, depending on the situation. You want to do that. You want to adapt to what's happening from the results of your initial operation, like the strike last night is an example. Or an enemy action like their missile attack. You want to be able to adjust that so you have positional advantage and you have the opportunity to take these advantages of the current situation as it develops. And that's what you're probably seeing.
BLITZER: All right, General Grange, stand by. I want to bring back Paula in New York.
Paula, I'm sure all of our viewers saw those pictures throughout the day today of U.S. military troops in the Northern part of Kuwait putting on the chemical equipment, their gear, getting ready for that worst case scenario. Certainly if, in fact, huge number, large number, of the ground forces now moving into Southern Iraq, they obviously would like to make sure that they -- the Iraqis have no additional artillery or short-range, medium-range missile capability to deal -- to effectively deal with them in the northern part of Kuwait -- Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And I think it's well evidenced by what we've heard from our (UNINTELLIGIBLE) today, well rehearsed for that scenario.
Bob Franken telling us where he was stationed at a U.S. air base in Kuwait, at least a call to a code red, almost a half dozen times. We call your attention to the right part of the screen once again, to remind you there appears to be a lull in what was an intense campaign over Baghdad. Nic Robertson, our man on the ground, one of the few reporters remaining in Baghdad, describing multiple explosion, rocking the city, at least leaving at least two buildings on fire. His most interesting description was the way the detonation appeared. And we're hoping this might give some cues to our military experts here. He described the detonations appearing at the base of the building. And as I understand it, that could indication a combination of cruise missiles and JDAMs in a, in a coordinated strike.
Miles O'Brien is our man to do some of this analysis now. He will be joined by two men who know an awful lot about this subject -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Paula, as you watch this so-called "shock and awe" campaign unfold, let's take a look from way up high in space and get a sense of where things are unfolding. You've been hearing Nic Robertson talk about what he's able to see from his hotel room. He's well situated to see some crucial targets in Baghdad. With the help of satellite imagery. Through the help of a company called Digital Globe which offers great satellite images, we're going to zoom in and give you the lay of the land if you will, with the help of General Wesley Clark and General Don Shepherd.
First of all this big wide shot of Iraq, let's zoom in on Baghdad proper, city of 4 million or 5 million. While I do that let's talk to the generals.
General Clark, any surprises so far as far targeting based on what you've seen?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, we've been told this was regime level targets. So, they're going after areas that are central to the government, probably have bunkers underneath them, command and control sites, places where the key leaders in the government are hiding. This is standard, based on the doctrine that's been set up and the objectives of the campaign as we know it.
But of course, Miles, the thing is, we really don't know what's happening outside the little portion of Baghdad that's being reported.
O'BRIEN: All right, let me just show you -- I've put some numbers on the screen here. Unfortunately, you can't see the number 3. If you can take away that "Strike on Iraq" banner for just a moment I'll tell you what we got. This is Nic Robertson right here in this hotel. He's got a field of view about like this let's say. Over here is that building he was referring to, where Tariq Aziz is known to have an office. It is clearly in flames. Over here is the palace of all palaces, the mother of all palaces, if you will, among Saddam's 50 palaces, it is perhaps the most important one if you will. Now, let's move in and go to this Council of Minister's building, which is another location where Tariq Aziz and the ministers obviously convene. It's hard for Nic to get a good view on that one, so we are not certain exactly what's going there.
General Shepherd, why these targets?
GEN. DON SHEPHERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Basically, these are leadership targets that have been listened to and watched for a long period. There may or may not be people in there. There may or may not be bunkers underneath them. But we've got good intelligence on these targets. The important thing is, this is not carpet bombing of downtown Baghdad. These are specific, precision targets against known targets of command and control and leadership at this time -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: The building I've highlighted is the building Nic Robertson was talking about, known to be in flame, known to be an office frequented by Tariq Aziz, the deputy prime minister of Iraq. We had a night vision picture of it not too long ago. Can't get it right now. But you will clearly see this image is now hopelessly outdated. This image probably captured about a year ago by our friends at Digital Globe.
Let's go back to that wide shot one more time. I want to ask General Clark about the precision of these strikes. Can you take it to the bank on these sorts of things, cruise missiles and JDAMs?
How accurate are they?
CLARK: They should be accurate within just two or three feet on average, maybe two meters on the outside. But, like anything that's a mechanical or electrical, there's always a possibility for an error. So, out of every 50 or 60, maybe one is going to go badly astray. Maybe it will hit nowhere near or maybe it will miss by a half mile. But 98 percent of these are going to be right there, within the space of six, eight, ten feet of where you want it to hit.
O'BRIEN: As we take an aerial tour of Baghdad, I'll ask you, General Shepherd, it seems to me that these obvious targets, even to armchair folks such as myself, would be the last place on earth you'd find Saddam Hussein right now. What do you think?
SHEPHERD: I think that's probably true. On the other hand, there's a lot of records and that type of thing in these buildings. They may be also bunkers and storage in the buildings that are very important. I think we've got intelligence about that over time period. So again this is the governmental control area of Baghdad, not just Downtown Baghdad that we're looking at -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Al right, gentlemen, thank you very much for giving us the lay of the land as we look at the Tigris.
Oh, I tell you what. Let's bring in General Grange. General Grange, what are your thoughts on these targets so far? And I'll zoom in, and I'll show you another one of these palace, which might very well be on the target list. Any surprises that you've seen? Is this all stuff that would be in the realm of predictable?
GRANGE: No, I think there's no surprises. But I think there's one important point to keep in perspective. And that is, though these are outstanding -- the state of the art, high-tech weapons munitions system, they're only as good as the intelligence that you're provided that this is the site you actually plan to hit.
O'BRIEN: All right so...
GRANGE: As they move things around, you have to be careful.
O'BRIEN: All right. As we from another on of Saddam Hussein's palaces. that huge palace compound, I do want to show you one more thing here, this is the Ministry of Information. And right here in the center of your screen, this where we have a camera that is now unstaffed. This is where correspondents had been reporting for quite some time. I want to tell you that our correspondents are not there now. And, General Clark, why would they want to evacuate that building, do you think?
CLARK: Because the Ministry of Information is probably the center of propaganda, it has command and control functions for a police state, and it makes it a logical target. So even if we haven't struck it, they would expect us to strike it.
O'BRIEN: General Shepherd, I've got to ask you one thing. I'm struck by the fact we're getting a very -- to say the least -- narrow view of what might or might not be happening inside Iraq.
SHEPHERD: Yes. What we're look at is a small, very small piece of Downtown Baghdad, a city of 5 million people, about the size of Chicago. So we're look at a small area along the Tigris River there, is all we're seeing.
Other things that are happening around Iraq, known command and control, known air defense sector targets, that type of thing. And all of it being defended by anti-aircraft that we're watching going off, anti-aircraft firing. We're looking at sector fire. It's apparent to me from watching that these guns are not tracking with radar any target up there. They're firing into a sector -- Miles. O'BRIEN: All right, gentleman. I'm going to interrupt you. And as we zoom across the river, we're going right to the Palestinian Meridian Hotel. Inside this hotel, right now, our Nic Robertson. Nic, take it away.
ROBERTSON: Miles, we've talked and heard a lot about walls of anti-aircraft gunfire. I'm looking at tracer rounds where they're (UNINTELLIGIBLE) towards the horizon there. That's what it looked like, long snaking...
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTSON: ... the guns appearing to wave the tracer fire through the air, coming up from multiple different locations.
It does appear at times as if it is a wall, that they do appear to be firing up into a given sector. Perhaps the people manning the anti-aircraft gun facilities waving, arcing their rounds through the air. But very much, from our perspective here in the center of the city looking towards the periphery of the city, the perimeter of the city, as if it would be a wall of anti-aircraft gunfire.
Difficult to say how high those rounds are flying up into the air. Nut at the least, several -- they appear to be going up at least several thousands of feet. Red tracer round, some of them just lazily -- I'm watching one climb into the air before it disappears. Above that even brighter amber flashes.
So it's periphery of the city perspective I'm looking at now, just a wall of anti-aircraft fire -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Nic, are you in a situation where minders are in anyway telling you what you can say or cannot say at this point?
ROBERTSON: Miles, we've had a government official with us since we've been broadcasting from this location for the last 24 hours. And we still do have a government official with us. And the indications are -- the indications they're giving to us is to stay away from specific targets that might be immediately across the river from where we are, at least.
O'BRIEN: So that view is, at best, limited. You only have -- if you had to come up with degrees, how many degrees of vision do you have outside your window there?
ROBERTSON: Well, we have approximately from this window, I would say, at least 120 degrees of vision. And if I move to another window -- because it sticks out of the hotel, looking up and down the river and back around the sides of the hotel, probably 200 degrees of view. If you lean out even further, perhaps a little more.
We certainly have the flexibility here to get a good view. From where I'm standing at this moment, a good 120, 140 degrees of view.
O'BRIEN: All right. And we have to be a bit circumspect in this as Nic obviously in a ticklish situation there. I'm going to throw it back to the generals. And what I've done here, I'm using the satellite imagery as give you kind of a sense of the view across the river there, if you will. The expanse of Baghdad sweeping out there. General Shepherd, Baghdad is the focus of this entire package, as far as we know it, right?
SHEPHERD: Well, it's the focus of what we're seeing and watching, Miles. I suspect that there are widespread strikes going on in other areas around the country where we think there are leadership, weapons of mass destruction and troop concentrations that could be in the way of General Franks' plans.
O'BRIEN: General Clark, would you concur with that?
CLARK: I do concur with that. And I think as you look at the extent of Baghdad and you realize the significance of that target, that it's going to take a lot of work.
Now, what we're watching is a battle that's unfolding here. So really, it's what we strike and then what the level of resistance is and the organization of that resistance that's coming back at us. So we should be watching the incoming and outgoing to sort of get a sense for how the battle's going here.
O'BRIEN: General Grange, as sort of we fly over Baghdad, here, if you will, in a matter of speaking, you really do get a sense of the challenges ultimately of engaging in any sort of combat, urban combat. If you could touch on a few points there for us.
GRANGE: Sure. First of all, just from the air, just the angle of attack, to have a munition penetrate a certain target area, especially when they live subterranean with great technology themselves provided by, let's say, some of the European countries in how to burrow under the ground effectively. The same in North Korea, it's the same challenge.
And so you have to understand, when you're look at 12-story buildings and you're trying to get down to the 5th floor below that and this these buildings are against each other, how do you get the angle to get the strike in the right place at the right point with these munitions?
The other risk, you can just imagine how something like this would swallow up people on the ground. Moving through the city, the streets the buildings to do fighting in urban terrain, how difficult that is. How to call in supporting firing to get fire on the right spot, let's say, a block away from you on the other side of the building. How do you do that with the angles of munition delivery? Very difficult, very hard on communications, and a challenge for fighting.
O'BRIEN: As we go through here, General Clark, the incredible sprawl of the city of 4 million to 5 million it really does strike me. How about you?
CLARK: It really does. But there's two things about it, Miles. First, it's got modern communications arteries. And that means you can take the city and cut it up into sectors and you can isolate bits and pieces. And that's one of the things we would always do when we're looking at urban warfare.
And the other thing is that when you look at it there's only a small part that really is like, the Cashbar (ph) or like Shanneen (ph) that's really intricate, difficult small streets little where you'd really be in tough, tough fighting.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's leave it at that for now as we take you -- back you up to a nice, wide shot of this city. Perhaps somewhere in that city of 4 to 5 million is Saddam Hussein. We don't know that for sure but that is the pursuit right now of a tremendous amount of the U.S. military.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 20, 2003 - 13:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: All of us are riveted on these live pictures coming out of Baghdad through the night scope, and occasionally we're also showing you pictures from Al Jazeera television. And this is, as Wolf has been saying, a building that appears to be burning. We've had various shots of it. There appears to be smoke rising out of this building and at least two other locations in Baghdad.
Our Nic Robertson, of course, on the ground there, limited in what he is able to say because of Iraqi officials who are with him, but we are trying through these pictures just to give you the best sense that we have of what's going on the ground -- going on, on the ground.
Is it Nic or is it John that I'm to go to now?
Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Judy, we can see from where we're standing those buildings still burning, the fires really seeming to get ahold and smoke continuing to come out of those buildings.
The anti-aircraft gunfire is still going up towards the edge of the city here just a little -- just a small amount of fire, a small number of tracers rising into the air. Very interesting to see when the attack happened, there was a lot of intense anti-aircraft activity here in the center where the attack was going on. Very soon after that attack ceased, the anti-aircraft gunfire in this area all stopped almost immediately, and now again another indication that this time a very strong command and control and discipline with the anti-aircraft, the gun batteries in the city at this time -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: Nic, some of us saw an Associated Press report to the effect that there was some sense that maybe there's been a split, a break in communications if you will, between the center and outlying military. I presume from where you are that's something that's very difficult for you to have -- you know, to be able to comment on or have information on. But from your perspective, you say you're seeing -- your sense is that they are responding in some coordinated way?
ROBERTSON: That's exactly what we're seeing here in the city of Baghdad, a response to the threat, responded to in a coordinated and apparently disciplined way. Fire when the threat is close, no anti- aircraft fire when the threat has moved on. Certainly, Iraq's government fearing earlier this week said they could lose some elements of their command and control structure.
That's why it appears the government moved over the weekend to set up the country in four distinct regions, so that should it be necessary to divulge military and political command, the country was ready (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to do without that, the south of Iraq, the Basra area bordering with Kuwait put under the control of Ali Hasan Almatid (ph), a cousin of President Saddam Hussein, the north next to where the Kurdish territory is put under the control of Isad Hebrahim (ph), the vice chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council. Baghdad is under control of Qusay Hussein, President Saddam Hussein's younger son, and who also controls the special Republican guard.
The anti-aircraft gunfire here in the city, at least in the areas we can see at this particular moment, does appear to have stopped right now -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: Nic, while we're looking at these live pictures from Baghdad through the night scope, let me just quickly take you back to the video you told us about a little over an hour ago of what appeared to be fresh video of Saddam Hussein meeting with his foreign minister, Tariq Aziz, with other officials around the table. We were showing that video for a short time.
Were you able to get enough -- any sort of sense from looking at that of whether that is new?
ROBERTSON: There are several indications. There are, obviously, and have been recently, many such meetings. Some of the things that made this meeting different, it was at a smaller table than normal. Everyone was in military uniform. President Saddam Hussein has not been in military uniform for over two years, excepting his appearance this morning and an appearance on Iraqi television yesterday.
Also the noticeable absentee from that meeting was Izad Ibrahim (ph), the vice chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council. He has been put in control of the northern region of Iraq, possibly the very fact that he wasn't at that meeting an indication that he may be closer -- he may be in the north. We don't know that. But he would normally, normally have been present at such a meeting.
So possibly that is, again, another indicator that what this particular video of this particular meeting was a meeting that happened quite recently -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: Clearly that video, Nic, of great interest to U.S. officials who want to know if Saddam or if any of the people close to him, were affected by that missile strike earlier today.
Nic, if you could, just back up for us and describe what you've seen over the last hour or so there in Baghdad.
ROBERTSON: Judy, it began with the warning anti-aircraft sirens. Then 12, perhaps 15 minutes later, we heard a detonation towards the south of the city, then began to see anti-aircraft gunfire erupting perhaps within about 20 or 25 minutes of the air raids warning going off. That's when there were the heavy detonations, the impacts in the center of Baghdad here. And since then, the buildings -- at least one of the buildings that was affected continuing to burn quite intensively at this particular moment and smoke rising into the air from that building. The other buildings that appear to have been hit, we don't see smoke rising from those areas at this particular time -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: All right, Nic Robertson continuing to report for us live from Baghdad. He is our eyes and ears there right now, as we are riveted by these pictures coming in from Baghdad where it is getting well on into the evening.
WOODRUFF: Wolf, I know and I assume the U.S. military is looking at these pictures every bit as anxiously as we are.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: These are confirmation -- these are live pictures for the U.S. military, confirming that their bombs have indeed hit certain targets. They can see CNN just as readily as all of us can, and it's always impressive to me -- I remember from the first Gulf War many Pentagon officials saying to me at the time, we knew we hit the targets, they said, once we saw those pictures live on CNN. And we're seeing these buildings now on fire, buildings that have been bombed by U.S. either Tomahawk cruise missiles or -- those are the unmanned missiles -- or by bombs that were precision-guided bombs that were targeted by U.S. warplanes.
I think General Grange is standing by, General David Grange, our military analyst.
General Grange, when you see this -- I was reminded of what President Bush said last night in his speech. He told the American people "this will not be a campaign of half measures and we will accept no outcome but victory." It looks like this is not necessarily a half measure.
GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, not at all. But, again, with the number of hits that it appears have taken place around Baghdad, it's still not the main effort. It's clear with the Marines that they were reported, that Marines expeditionary force or elements there of, crossed the line of departure into Iraq. We, again, don't know if that's the main attack, a supporting effort, a feint, or just reconnaissance moving through the area that may be moving back. And that's doctrinally the different types of things the units could do on the ground, and of course we don't know what that is yet.
BLITZER: All right, General Grange, stand by for a second.
John king is at the White House. He's got some additional information -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is the White House extraordinarily reluctant to talk about operational details. It says all such details will come from the Pentagon. We have been talking to some senior officials here. One official familiar with the presentation Mr. Bush received this morning from Defense Secretary Rumsfeld told us things would be ramping up, quote, "fairly quickly." Another senior official I spoke to as, Judy, was speaking to Nic Robertson in Baghdad said he could confirm there was a significant escalation underway in and around Baghdad and elsewhere. This official refused to give any other detail, saying operational security is of course critical. A third official said he had been told things would escalate but take, quote, "several days to unfold."
We should note for our views, that the president has signed a broad order giving generals in the field the authority to execute the battle plan. The president is being consulted on the big decision and of course being kept inform constantly to the developments. But the generals in the generals have the authority to execute the battle plan as we watches these pictures. One more footnote, Wolf, the president is to speak to the media today during a meeting with his cabinet. We expect the president's remarks about one hour from now, perhaps an assessment from the president in how things are going in the second day here with war with Iraq -- Wolf.
BLITZER: The chain of command going from the commander-in-chief, the president of the United States, to the secretary of defense, to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and then to the Commander General Tommy Franks.
Is that correct, general -- Grange?
Is that how the chain of command goes, from the president down to Tommy Franks?
GRANGE: Actually, it goes through the secretary of defense, right to General Franks, with the chairman as an adviser, of course, because of his position with all the Joint Chiefs of Staff. But I think what is very pleasant to hear is that, in fact that, once the OK was given if the conduct of the campaign, the operational campaign in that theater is being conducted by General Frank, reporting certain critical items through his chain of command, but fighting the war as he's been trained and his subordinates have been trained to do, that's a wonderful thing for military personnel to hear in a theater.
BLITZER: Finally, General Grange, I want to throw out one idea to you and run it by you. I know you're not surprised to see elements of the first Marine Expeditionary Forces, our Barbara Starr reporting from the Pentagon, now moving into Southern Iraq, crossing the border into Southern Iraq. Moving in simultaneously with this air campaign that is under way in Iraq. But given the fact that earlier in day in Kuwait there were Iraqi missile attacks against targets in the Northern part of Kuwait and elsewhere, do you think it's possible that the U.S. simply decide General Franks to accelerate the ground assault into Southern Iraq in order to deal with the potential of artillery or short-range missile attacks into Kuwait?
GRANGE: Could very well be. What happens on a time line is that the local commander can slide the time on this scale, these key events, they call it, this key event check list, back and forth, depending on the situation. You want to do that. You want to adapt to what's happening from the results of your initial operation, like the strike last night is an example. Or an enemy action like their missile attack. You want to be able to adjust that so you have positional advantage and you have the opportunity to take these advantages of the current situation as it develops. And that's what you're probably seeing.
BLITZER: All right, General Grange, stand by. I want to bring back Paula in New York.
Paula, I'm sure all of our viewers saw those pictures throughout the day today of U.S. military troops in the Northern part of Kuwait putting on the chemical equipment, their gear, getting ready for that worst case scenario. Certainly if, in fact, huge number, large number, of the ground forces now moving into Southern Iraq, they obviously would like to make sure that they -- the Iraqis have no additional artillery or short-range, medium-range missile capability to deal -- to effectively deal with them in the northern part of Kuwait -- Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And I think it's well evidenced by what we've heard from our (UNINTELLIGIBLE) today, well rehearsed for that scenario.
Bob Franken telling us where he was stationed at a U.S. air base in Kuwait, at least a call to a code red, almost a half dozen times. We call your attention to the right part of the screen once again, to remind you there appears to be a lull in what was an intense campaign over Baghdad. Nic Robertson, our man on the ground, one of the few reporters remaining in Baghdad, describing multiple explosion, rocking the city, at least leaving at least two buildings on fire. His most interesting description was the way the detonation appeared. And we're hoping this might give some cues to our military experts here. He described the detonations appearing at the base of the building. And as I understand it, that could indication a combination of cruise missiles and JDAMs in a, in a coordinated strike.
Miles O'Brien is our man to do some of this analysis now. He will be joined by two men who know an awful lot about this subject -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Paula, as you watch this so-called "shock and awe" campaign unfold, let's take a look from way up high in space and get a sense of where things are unfolding. You've been hearing Nic Robertson talk about what he's able to see from his hotel room. He's well situated to see some crucial targets in Baghdad. With the help of satellite imagery. Through the help of a company called Digital Globe which offers great satellite images, we're going to zoom in and give you the lay of the land if you will, with the help of General Wesley Clark and General Don Shepherd.
First of all this big wide shot of Iraq, let's zoom in on Baghdad proper, city of 4 million or 5 million. While I do that let's talk to the generals.
General Clark, any surprises so far as far targeting based on what you've seen?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, we've been told this was regime level targets. So, they're going after areas that are central to the government, probably have bunkers underneath them, command and control sites, places where the key leaders in the government are hiding. This is standard, based on the doctrine that's been set up and the objectives of the campaign as we know it.
But of course, Miles, the thing is, we really don't know what's happening outside the little portion of Baghdad that's being reported.
O'BRIEN: All right, let me just show you -- I've put some numbers on the screen here. Unfortunately, you can't see the number 3. If you can take away that "Strike on Iraq" banner for just a moment I'll tell you what we got. This is Nic Robertson right here in this hotel. He's got a field of view about like this let's say. Over here is that building he was referring to, where Tariq Aziz is known to have an office. It is clearly in flames. Over here is the palace of all palaces, the mother of all palaces, if you will, among Saddam's 50 palaces, it is perhaps the most important one if you will. Now, let's move in and go to this Council of Minister's building, which is another location where Tariq Aziz and the ministers obviously convene. It's hard for Nic to get a good view on that one, so we are not certain exactly what's going there.
General Shepherd, why these targets?
GEN. DON SHEPHERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Basically, these are leadership targets that have been listened to and watched for a long period. There may or may not be people in there. There may or may not be bunkers underneath them. But we've got good intelligence on these targets. The important thing is, this is not carpet bombing of downtown Baghdad. These are specific, precision targets against known targets of command and control and leadership at this time -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: The building I've highlighted is the building Nic Robertson was talking about, known to be in flame, known to be an office frequented by Tariq Aziz, the deputy prime minister of Iraq. We had a night vision picture of it not too long ago. Can't get it right now. But you will clearly see this image is now hopelessly outdated. This image probably captured about a year ago by our friends at Digital Globe.
Let's go back to that wide shot one more time. I want to ask General Clark about the precision of these strikes. Can you take it to the bank on these sorts of things, cruise missiles and JDAMs?
How accurate are they?
CLARK: They should be accurate within just two or three feet on average, maybe two meters on the outside. But, like anything that's a mechanical or electrical, there's always a possibility for an error. So, out of every 50 or 60, maybe one is going to go badly astray. Maybe it will hit nowhere near or maybe it will miss by a half mile. But 98 percent of these are going to be right there, within the space of six, eight, ten feet of where you want it to hit.
O'BRIEN: As we take an aerial tour of Baghdad, I'll ask you, General Shepherd, it seems to me that these obvious targets, even to armchair folks such as myself, would be the last place on earth you'd find Saddam Hussein right now. What do you think?
SHEPHERD: I think that's probably true. On the other hand, there's a lot of records and that type of thing in these buildings. They may be also bunkers and storage in the buildings that are very important. I think we've got intelligence about that over time period. So again this is the governmental control area of Baghdad, not just Downtown Baghdad that we're looking at -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Al right, gentlemen, thank you very much for giving us the lay of the land as we look at the Tigris.
Oh, I tell you what. Let's bring in General Grange. General Grange, what are your thoughts on these targets so far? And I'll zoom in, and I'll show you another one of these palace, which might very well be on the target list. Any surprises that you've seen? Is this all stuff that would be in the realm of predictable?
GRANGE: No, I think there's no surprises. But I think there's one important point to keep in perspective. And that is, though these are outstanding -- the state of the art, high-tech weapons munitions system, they're only as good as the intelligence that you're provided that this is the site you actually plan to hit.
O'BRIEN: All right so...
GRANGE: As they move things around, you have to be careful.
O'BRIEN: All right. As we from another on of Saddam Hussein's palaces. that huge palace compound, I do want to show you one more thing here, this is the Ministry of Information. And right here in the center of your screen, this where we have a camera that is now unstaffed. This is where correspondents had been reporting for quite some time. I want to tell you that our correspondents are not there now. And, General Clark, why would they want to evacuate that building, do you think?
CLARK: Because the Ministry of Information is probably the center of propaganda, it has command and control functions for a police state, and it makes it a logical target. So even if we haven't struck it, they would expect us to strike it.
O'BRIEN: General Shepherd, I've got to ask you one thing. I'm struck by the fact we're getting a very -- to say the least -- narrow view of what might or might not be happening inside Iraq.
SHEPHERD: Yes. What we're look at is a small, very small piece of Downtown Baghdad, a city of 5 million people, about the size of Chicago. So we're look at a small area along the Tigris River there, is all we're seeing.
Other things that are happening around Iraq, known command and control, known air defense sector targets, that type of thing. And all of it being defended by anti-aircraft that we're watching going off, anti-aircraft firing. We're looking at sector fire. It's apparent to me from watching that these guns are not tracking with radar any target up there. They're firing into a sector -- Miles. O'BRIEN: All right, gentleman. I'm going to interrupt you. And as we zoom across the river, we're going right to the Palestinian Meridian Hotel. Inside this hotel, right now, our Nic Robertson. Nic, take it away.
ROBERTSON: Miles, we've talked and heard a lot about walls of anti-aircraft gunfire. I'm looking at tracer rounds where they're (UNINTELLIGIBLE) towards the horizon there. That's what it looked like, long snaking...
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTSON: ... the guns appearing to wave the tracer fire through the air, coming up from multiple different locations.
It does appear at times as if it is a wall, that they do appear to be firing up into a given sector. Perhaps the people manning the anti-aircraft gun facilities waving, arcing their rounds through the air. But very much, from our perspective here in the center of the city looking towards the periphery of the city, the perimeter of the city, as if it would be a wall of anti-aircraft gunfire.
Difficult to say how high those rounds are flying up into the air. Nut at the least, several -- they appear to be going up at least several thousands of feet. Red tracer round, some of them just lazily -- I'm watching one climb into the air before it disappears. Above that even brighter amber flashes.
So it's periphery of the city perspective I'm looking at now, just a wall of anti-aircraft fire -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Nic, are you in a situation where minders are in anyway telling you what you can say or cannot say at this point?
ROBERTSON: Miles, we've had a government official with us since we've been broadcasting from this location for the last 24 hours. And we still do have a government official with us. And the indications are -- the indications they're giving to us is to stay away from specific targets that might be immediately across the river from where we are, at least.
O'BRIEN: So that view is, at best, limited. You only have -- if you had to come up with degrees, how many degrees of vision do you have outside your window there?
ROBERTSON: Well, we have approximately from this window, I would say, at least 120 degrees of vision. And if I move to another window -- because it sticks out of the hotel, looking up and down the river and back around the sides of the hotel, probably 200 degrees of view. If you lean out even further, perhaps a little more.
We certainly have the flexibility here to get a good view. From where I'm standing at this moment, a good 120, 140 degrees of view.
O'BRIEN: All right. And we have to be a bit circumspect in this as Nic obviously in a ticklish situation there. I'm going to throw it back to the generals. And what I've done here, I'm using the satellite imagery as give you kind of a sense of the view across the river there, if you will. The expanse of Baghdad sweeping out there. General Shepherd, Baghdad is the focus of this entire package, as far as we know it, right?
SHEPHERD: Well, it's the focus of what we're seeing and watching, Miles. I suspect that there are widespread strikes going on in other areas around the country where we think there are leadership, weapons of mass destruction and troop concentrations that could be in the way of General Franks' plans.
O'BRIEN: General Clark, would you concur with that?
CLARK: I do concur with that. And I think as you look at the extent of Baghdad and you realize the significance of that target, that it's going to take a lot of work.
Now, what we're watching is a battle that's unfolding here. So really, it's what we strike and then what the level of resistance is and the organization of that resistance that's coming back at us. So we should be watching the incoming and outgoing to sort of get a sense for how the battle's going here.
O'BRIEN: General Grange, as sort of we fly over Baghdad, here, if you will, in a matter of speaking, you really do get a sense of the challenges ultimately of engaging in any sort of combat, urban combat. If you could touch on a few points there for us.
GRANGE: Sure. First of all, just from the air, just the angle of attack, to have a munition penetrate a certain target area, especially when they live subterranean with great technology themselves provided by, let's say, some of the European countries in how to burrow under the ground effectively. The same in North Korea, it's the same challenge.
And so you have to understand, when you're look at 12-story buildings and you're trying to get down to the 5th floor below that and this these buildings are against each other, how do you get the angle to get the strike in the right place at the right point with these munitions?
The other risk, you can just imagine how something like this would swallow up people on the ground. Moving through the city, the streets the buildings to do fighting in urban terrain, how difficult that is. How to call in supporting firing to get fire on the right spot, let's say, a block away from you on the other side of the building. How do you do that with the angles of munition delivery? Very difficult, very hard on communications, and a challenge for fighting.
O'BRIEN: As we go through here, General Clark, the incredible sprawl of the city of 4 million to 5 million it really does strike me. How about you?
CLARK: It really does. But there's two things about it, Miles. First, it's got modern communications arteries. And that means you can take the city and cut it up into sectors and you can isolate bits and pieces. And that's one of the things we would always do when we're looking at urban warfare.
And the other thing is that when you look at it there's only a small part that really is like, the Cashbar (ph) or like Shanneen (ph) that's really intricate, difficult small streets little where you'd really be in tough, tough fighting.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's leave it at that for now as we take you -- back you up to a nice, wide shot of this city. Perhaps somewhere in that city of 4 to 5 million is Saddam Hussein. We don't know that for sure but that is the pursuit right now of a tremendous amount of the U.S. military.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
