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American Morning
Strike on Iraq: Pentagon Confirms First Combat Casualty
Aired March 21, 2003 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Thanks for being with us this morning.
A lot to share with you. We're going to share with you now one view of the war in Iraq, a picture from the desert south of Baghdad, where the Army's 37th Calvary is moving with a purpose. That purpose to be among the first to make it to Baghdad.
Walt Rodgers, who is embedded with the Seventh Cavalry, will be joining us all morning long.
Good morning, everyone.
I'm Paula Zahn in New York -- Bill.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Bill Hemmer.
Good morning again from Kuwait City.
Paula, a quick sample of the news headlines in this region today. "Arab Times" here in Kuwait, and big bold letters, "America Invades Iraq." The "Kuwait Times," a little more explicit, "It's War!" they say, "Its War At Last," a clear reflection of the number of Kuwaitis who tell us that they have been waiting for the time for what they consider the belligerent neighbor to the north led by Saddam Hussein to be finally ousted.
It appears right now that that process is under way right now, if you listen to our reporters. Amazing access for our CNN journalists and we'll have much more for you on that coming up this hour, Paula -- good morning again to you.
ZAHN: Thanks, Bill.
We keep coming back to the picture that I know you spent a lot of time looking at last night, the pictures being beamed to us live from the desert. One picture of the war. Wrong to interpret them as facing not much opposition.
Walt Rodgers, yes, if you have the picture, we can put it up, saying that they have not come under fire within the last 10 hours. In fact, the enemy fire they did receive, actually, was experienced before they even went into Iraq.
There has been limited fighting elsewhere in southern Iraq, including along the Iraqi coast. We're going to be going to all those critical points this morning.
Right now, another check of some of the latest important developments. As Leon just mentioned, a U.S. Marine has become the first American to die in combat. He apparently died during a fight for control over Iraqi oil fields.
Now, there are some conflicting numbers this morning, anywhere from 15 to 30 oil wells burning in southern Iraq near Basra.
CNN White House correspondent Chris Burns is reporting that President Bush on Wednesday night gave the go ahead for the initial attack on Iraq with a margin of only three minutes to allow the F117 Stealth fighters time to make their mission.
And that leads us to our next question, what really happened to Saddam Hussein in those attacks? Iraq's information minister says he is alive, that he is safe. Other sources are saying they're not there yet, they're not so sure, saying he may have been injured or killed in the initial attack Wednesday night.
Meanwhile, though, Bill, the Pentagon is operating under the assumption that he is still alive. That's the very latest from Barbara Starr at the Pentagon -- back to you now.
HEMMER: Yes, Paula, on the ground meanwhile heavy fighting reported for that old port city of Umm Qasr, tough U.S. Marines have reportedly taken control over the new port city. They're separated by about a distance of one mile.
Throughout the morning we've also been seeing some remarkable pictures coming in from CNN's Walter Rodgers, traveling with the Seventh Cavalry, moving virtually unchallenged through the southern Iraqi desert. Walter described it as a wave of steel, possibly extending 20 miles wide with the Third Infantry Division.
Meanwhile, U.S. troops have staged air assaults at two air fields in western Iraq. The area considered important as a possible storage site for SCUD missiles and launchers known as H2 and H3. And Don Shepperd has talked about for days now the importance of these locations.
Also reports that four oil refineries right now and at least 30 oil wells have been set on fire throughout Iraq, sending a smoky haze over Kuwait City. I want to remark right now, though, earlier today the skies behind us were much darker than they are now. It appears either the wind has shifted dramatically or possibly those oil fires that we're told right now are being extinguished by the U.S. Marines, quite successful, we're told, which might be limiting the amount of smoke we're seeing here.
Meanwhile, though, there are casualties to talk about. A U.S. Marine has been killed in action, said to be the first reported coalition combat casualty in this war. And for more on that, the man who reported it first, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, with the Marines at Camp Iwo Jima, northern Kuwait -- Sanjay, good morning.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Bill.
Well, what we're learning now is that this unfortunate KIA, killed in action scenario, occurred this morning. It occurred in southern Iraq and it occurred during an oil field conflict. Those are the three new pieces of information that we've heard. It's an unfortunate story. You and I were talking about it earlier. Marines around this camp, Camp Iwo Jima, some of them knew this particular Marine. It was a bit of a blow, no question about it, but really does not seem to have tainted the confidence in any way of the Marines that I've spoken with at this time, Bill.
But, again, those are the, that's the sort of latest information on that. That comes from a release from the Marines. Obviously no, none of the identifiable features that would be appropriate at this time, but that is what we can tell you now -- Bill.
HEMMER: Sanjay, yesterday it was in and out of that bunker for you all day long. Has it been similar today or less?
GUPTA: It has no question been less today, Bill. We've had three bunker calls, but we had 12 bunker calls yesterday. So it's definitely been less. A couple of other things to note around here, there's been a lot more aerial activity, it seems. We've seen both British as well as U.S. helicopters flying around. There seems to be more of that.
We did have a couple of bunker calls earlier this morning. At that time we also heard the unmistakable sounds of Patriot launches, Patriot missile launches at the time, as well. That has been the most activity.
But today is no doubt a much more quiet day than yesterday -- Bill.
HEMMER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Camp Iwo Jima, with the U.S. Marines. And Sanjay described that missile coming overhead by the Patriot battery apparently with a positive intercept of an Iraqi missile launched earlier today.
One other note, Paula, quickly, more casualties to talk about. In the predawn hours, somewhere around 4:00 a.m. in local time today, a CH-46 helicopter operated by the Marines, a C Night (ph), made a crash in northern Kuwait, killing the four U.S. crew members on board. Eight other troops from the British on board, as well. Said to have gone down not as a result of enemy fire, but possibly mechanical. Not a whole lot of information on this right now. The bottom line, 12 killed in that, four on the U.S. side, eight on the British -- Paula.
ZAHN: Bill, thanks.
In a series of lightning raids earlier today, U.S. and British forces took control of two airfields in western Iraq and an oil field in the south. One of the operations cost the life of a U.S. Marine, the first coalition combat death.
How important are these operations? Why are they so critical? Let's go to our own analyst, U.S. Air Force Major General Don Shepperd, who joins us from Atlanta this morning.
Welcome back, sir.
First of all, help us understand the strategic importance of these joint successes.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Paula, these successes are very, very important. This H1 and H2 and H3 air fields in western Iraq, we have a map that basically shows their importance. These were the SCUD launch areas during the first Gulf War. These are the areas from which the SCUDs were launched into Israel and if this time, if we don't seize those areas and SCUDs were launched again and Israel entered the conflict, it would make our life militarily and diplomatically very, very difficult.
The ground troops, of course, are moving north, but these air fields have been seized evidently in a different manner. We have an animation that shows you how an air field might be seized. It's normally a combination of special operations and also infantry, Ranger type operations here.
Here we have an air field. This could be H2 or H3 air field with all of its facilities there. We have towers. We have what you call hasses, hardened aircraft shelters that shelter aircraft. You can hide missiles, SCUD missiles and that type of thing in there.
What you want to do is take control of this air field. You have to take down the defenses to get in and then you've got to go in and seize the entire air field.
The way we do this is put special operations controllers on the ground. Then we fly in airplanes, basically. The controllers mark the targets on the ground and basically we drop ordinance or fire ordinance on the particular targets to take down the defenses of the air field.
Once you take down the defenses of the air field, then it's safe enough to bring in helicopters and/or later transport aircraft in which you can disgorge troops to completely seize the air fields and take control of it.
All of this is extremely dangerous. It has to be done normally under the cover of darkness, where we have great advantages, and our troops are very well trained to do this, the special operations troops and the Ranger troops from the Army, as well.
Now, we haven't been told exactly how this is being done. We're not displaying tactics here. We're just showing the elements of how it's done. You destroy the defenses based upon intelligence, then you fly people in in helicopters, then you land people in in C-130s and those C-130s carry vehicles and you disgorge the vehicles from the smaller aircraft like the C-130. We even got the new C-130J that can carry even more and then you bring in aircraft such as the C-17, from which you can disgorge tanks.
The whole idea is to take the entire area and make sure that it can not be used to launch SCUD missiles.
We've got the ability to do this, again, with helicopters, with transports and with trained troops that practice this on a regular basis.
Now, again, it appears from Barbara Starr's reports and the Pentagon that we have seized H2 and H3. This is a major military success and saves us from the diplomatic problem of having things launched into Israel which might draw them into the war -- Paula.
ZAHN: Do we have any idea what kind of resistance was encountered...
SHEPPERD: We don't have any early...
ZAHN: ... in taking those air fields?
SHEPPERD: We don't have any early reports yet. But I can tell you that the air fields are defended and very likely they would have had some resistance. Our troops are very well trained. They've got good intelligence of knowing where the defensive positions are and they've got night vision equipment that gives us tremendous advantage when we go in to do this -- Paula.
ZAHN: The other success I think that is very important for you to address is the taking of Umm Qasr, that port on the Faw Peninsula, which is a key strategic location. I think Jason Bellini described how important a place it is. It's a small sliver of that coastline leads you to the Persian Gulf to bring in humanitarian aid. It is also the gateway to the southern Iraqi oil fields.
SHEPPERD: Right.
ZAHN: How significant of a victory is this for coalition forces?
SHEPPERD: Very significant, and it's not all tied up yet. The al-Faw Peninsula, basically what's happening there is the Marines are going north to seize the Rumaylah oil fields. The British are cutting off the al-Faw Peninsula to control it. And the Marines are going further south to seize the port of Umm Qasr.
Now what you want to do there is you want to seize the oil wells to keep them from being ignited. You want to seize the oil gasoline separator plants. You want to seize the refineries and you want to seize the pipelines that lead to the port of Umm Qasr because all of that is the key to taking oil out, which is money for the new economy, and bringing supplies in for humanitarian relief of the economy -- Paula.
ZAHN: And...
SHEPPERD: Very important, very significant, diplomatically and militarily. ZAHN: And a quick reflection on the loss of the first Marine in combat, now apparently in the taking of one of these oil fields.
SHEPPERD: As a military guy, when I hear the word loss I get a lump in my throat. This is the first. There will be more. It's unfortunate. It's part of war.
ZAHN: You've also explained just how extremely dangerous both of these operations you've just talked about were and continue to be.
SHEPPERD: Very dangerous and also, another thing, kind of unseen, gone unnoticed is the very joint and coalition nature of this operation. The ability to bring forces together from different countries and operate intolerably, not shoot each other, take important objectives, is something that we've trained to do and it's paying off from a military standpoint, Paula.
ZAHN: General Shepperd, if you wouldn't mind standing by, we're going to have to learn on you throughout the morning for your insights.
Thanks so much for your input.
SHEPPERD: Thank you.
ZAHN: Back to Bill now in Kuwait City.
HEMMER: All right, Paula, just one thing to add on that U.S. Marine apparently killed in combat while taking a southern oil field. We saw a very telling picture from the Associated Press earlier today with U.S. Marines on the ground, that burning oil fields just a few yards away. At some point during one of these oil well fires, that's, indeed, where that U.S. Marine lost his life.
Back to the Pentagon.
Barbara Starr is watching things from there -- Barbara, what do you have for us now?
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, to put a few things into context, of course, the Pentagon watching very carefully the situation over Baghdad this morning. While it's all quiet at the moment over Baghdad, what they're looking at is the status of the Iraqi command and control system, is there centralized command and control from Baghdad out to military units in the field.
Officials here are telling us today after last night's strikes over Baghdad, they are very uncertain as to exactly what is going on. They do believe the Iraqis are still operating a pretty robust air defense system after the strikes -- you see last night's pictures here. But what they are not sure about is the command and control.
Now, today they say that there's not very much going on on the Iraqi airwaves. The Iraqis are staying off the airwaves. They're staying quiet. What they don't know here is are the Iraqis staying quiet because they're waiting for U.S. forces to get closer to Baghdad and then they plan a counterattack? Or, in fact, has some centralized command and control now really been disrupted, possible leadership killed and is that why the command and control system is so quiet?
The key issue they're trying to figure out in the coming hours. In addition, as we reported earlier, those air fields out in the west, H2 and H3, now under some very initial control of U.S. forces. That's the area where the U.S. believes the Iraqis had always hidden their SCUD missiles since Operation Desert Storm. Moving in there very quickly to ensure that there is no activity with SCUD missiles that could possibly threaten Israel.
Special forces, we are told, also are continuing to operate throughout the country, talking to opposition groups and even trying to earmark key Iraqi military units that they might approach and convince to surrender. A very delicate situation, but we are confirming that that is going on, as well.
Expect to see more of the U.S. psychological operations war in the hours and days ahead. We also have learned that the U.S. military has already prepared a radio message to be piped into Iraq, telling the Iraqi military that they have lost and that it's time for them to give up, that they have lost the war against the U.S. and coalition forces. We don't know if that message has already been piped in, but we know that it is certainly sitting there waiting to go.
And, finally, because now there are so many U.S. ground forces operating throughout southern Iraq, what about those air strikes that have been going on for the last 12 years, Operation Southern Watch? Well, we are told that those strikes continue but on a very selective basis now, very, very careful because with so many ground troops in the region, of course, the U.S. wants to be very sure it doesn't have an accident -- Bill.
HEMMER: Barbara, quickly here, a question for you. I need a short answer, if you can. The cynic in me leads me toward this question. What is the possibility, knowing that shock and awe has not yet happened in Baghdad, that that was all misinformation put out there to the public, put out to folks like us to trick up the Iraqis? Any credence or not?
STARR: Possibly. We will only know the true answer to that when all of this is over. But the fact is this has unfolded largely as an air campaign against the leadership and if they can make the leadership go away, we may never get to shock and awe. But there should probably be a clear answer to that in less than the next 24 hours because there is a feeling that they either have to move on this or have some firm evidence that the Iraqi leadership is no longer in control of the country and they don't have that evidence at the moment.
HEMMER: Barbara Starr from the Pentagon -- Paula.
ZAHN: Thanks so much, Bill.
This strike on Iraq has sparked intense anti-war protests in the United States and overseas. In Cairo, police used water cannons to control stone throwing demonstrators as they marched on the U.S. Embassy.
Joining us now to talk more about the reaction to the war in the Arab world, Ambassador Yahya Mahmassani, the Arab League representative to the United Nations.
Sorry for butchering your name.
AMB. YAHYA MAHMASSANI, ARAB LEAGUE AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: tsar.
ZAHN: A lot of names to memorize today.
MAHMASSANI: It's all right.
ZAHN: Mr. Ambassador, welcome.
MAHMASSANI: Thank you.
ZAHN: We know what the secretary general of the Arab League had to say yesterday. He said the start of the war was a sad day for all Arabs and he called on the U.N. to maintain peace and stop the war.
Give us an idea of the break down of the Arab states who are in agreement with him and those who are not.
MAHMASSANI: Well, you see, the Arab League goes by the decisions of the Arab summit. And all the Arab leaders in the Arab summit recently have taken a decision stating that they reject the war on Iraq and they would like to see a process of peaceful settlement through the inspections.
I think everybody in the Arab world is against the war.
ZAHN: Let me ask you this, are you heartened by the fact that the so-called shock and awe part of this campaign has been postponed because there seems to be some kind of indication there may be some weakness in the power structure in Iraq?
MAHMASSANI: Well, let me say that I think the whole war is wrong. The whole thing is wrong. I think there is no happy missiles and bad missiles. All missiles are bad. All bombs are bad. Any bomb is an evil and therefore I don't think that anything will make a difference. The holy thing is that now this war should be -- it should have been stopped before it started.
ZAHN: Did you really have faith that Saddam Hussein, through an inspection process, would ultimately turn over all of the weapons even Hans Blix said he had in his first report?
MAHMASSANI: Well, why didn't you put him to the test? Why didn't you accept it for just one more month and to find out and put Saddam Hussein to the test? The weapons inspectors, particularly Mr. Blix, said I need just a little bit more time. And if time was given, I think this whole war may have been stopped. All the horrors of the war, all the killing, the body bags, the destruction, all this could have been stopped if you were just a little bit more patient. Why the rush to war? Why did the United States have to go so quickly? What's the reason? And, you know, you don't even tell us why. You start...
ZAHN: You say you. I don't represent the United States government.
MAHMASSANI: OK, I'm sorry. I'm saying the United States. Well, the United States, the administration says that first it's weapons of mass destruction. And then you move into regime change. And then democracy. And then terrorism. Tell me, which one of it? Which one of it is the cause of this war? All of them? Maybe none of them.
ZAHN: Let me ask you this, what do you think the status of Saddam Hussein is? The Pentagon is working under the assumption he is still alive. There's a front page story in the "Washington Post" this morning suggesting that he was injured, but still alive.
MAHMASSANI: Well, you see, well, again, the United States says they have intelligence in the area who have directed them where they should send the missiles. Maybe they should tell what the situation is. But let me say this really. This is a war now between your supreme might and the supreme right of the people to defend themselves, regardless of the leadership. Let's put this aside. The people of Iraq will defend themselves. Sooner or later you will realize this. You'll find out.
ZAHN: Do you ever see Saddam Hussein accepting Bahrain's offer or any other Arab country's offer for exile?
MAHMASSANI: Well, two things. First of all, the Bahrain's offer was not an offer. All what the king of Bahrain said if -- you see all the mass media here forget about the if -- if Saddam Hussein wants to leave, then he's welcome. That's what he said. But, again, this is up to the Iraqi people and to the Iraqi leadership and we still stand by the decision of the Arab summit.
ZAHN: We're going to have to leave it there this morning.
Ambassador Yahya Mahmassani. I did get the name right, finally, at the end.
MAHMASSANI: This time, yes.
ZAHN: Thank you so much, sir.
MAHMASSANI: Thank you.
ZAHN: Appreciate your being patient with us this morning as you were waiting for us to get to your interview.
MAHMASSANI: No problem.
ZAHN: Back to Bill now in Kuwait City.
HEMMER: All right, Paula, listen, Jason Bellini joined us about 30 minutes ago. He, too, has made it inside the Iraqi border, southeastern part of the country. By way of video phone we can talk to Jason again about what he is going through now, traveling with the U.S. Marines, as well -- Jason, what do you have?
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Bill.
Well, we may be interrupted again by some loud explosions behind us. Operations are continuing here at the port of Umm Qasr, other areas of this port. We're in the new port of Umm Qasr right now, which is now in the, under the control of the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit.
With me I have First Lieutenant Desaprara (ph). I apologize. I'm just, we just met you a moment ago. And you were, you came in here with the first Marines to arrive.
DESAPRARA: That's correct. I'm with Fox Company, Second Battalion, First Marines and we were the first ones to come into this port. BELLINI: Now, I understand that you encountered some resistance on your way in.
DESAPRARA: Yes, we did. We encountered some resistance just outside the port. There was about 26 individuals there that they were trying to stage an ambush for us. We shot at them a little bit and once they decided to surrender, we took them all in one fell swoop. BELLINI: How serious of an ambush was this? Did it present a serious threat to you?
DESAPRARA: I think we caught them unawares and because of that they, when they tried to shoot at us, it was half-hearted. And then once they realized that the odds were insurmountable for them, they went ahead, raised their white flags and we just took control of them then. BELLINI: How many people are we talking about?
DESAPRARA: There were 26 at that point. Since then we have picked up about another 26. BELLINI: The other 26 here at the port?
DESAPRARA: In random places throughout the new port. BELLINI: And did you have to, were they armed, these others that you came across?
DESAPRARA: We did have to disarm a fair amount of these EPWs.
BELLINI: OK, very good.
Thank you very much, First Lieutenant.
So, Bill, again, activities are continuing here. We're still hearing the sound of gunfire in the background as this very large port is taken over by the Fifteenth Marine Expeditionary Unit -- Bill.
HEMMER: Jason, tell us more about that port. How critical could that be going forward right now, knowing the ground war is well under way?
BELLINI: Well, Bill, we were told that this was a very key objective and that they wanted to make this one of the very first targets in this war and that, for many symbolic reasons, really. They said they want to show that they, that the U.S. is here to help expedite humanitarian aid and that by taking this port, they will hope to have this place up and running, again, within several days, and to have humanitarian aid flowing through to try to show the Iraqis that this is not an occupying army, that Americans are here, that the U.S. military is here to help them.
That's the message that they've been giving and one of the reasons why they wanted to get here first.
Also, we're located along a major roadway and they wanted to make this area secure for the rest of the Marines as they make their way north -- Bill.
HEMMER: Jason, earlier, at the top of your report, you did mention that explosions under way in and around you. What can you tell us more about what's happening there, at least in the perimeter of your location? BELLINI: Well, it's been quiet now for a minute or so. They really have been intermittent, these explosions and this gunfire that we've been hearing, as other companies within the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit continue on. There are a number of other objectives here within the port and we'll tell you a little bit more about those later -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Jason.
Jason Bellini in southeastern Iraq near that strategic port city that will be quite critical moving forward.
Throughout this entire conflict, the U.S. military in its buildup here, along with the British in Kuwait, has been a bit stymied by the lack of access to any sort of port area. They've been essentially using only one, that's here in Kuwait City north of here, right near Camp Doha, which is the oldest and most established U.S. facility here in Kuwait.
Without the access, up and down the Persian Gulf, it slowed the buildup, backing up ships out in the Persian Gulf unable to unload their supplies. It's quite possible once this port becomes even more free than it is today, in order to gain access, that it could become quite critical.
At this hour, two quick headlines happening in Iraq. Key air fields have been taken in western Iraq and also some strategic oil fields taken near Basra, as well.
Much more a bit later -- Paula, back to you now.
ZAHN: Thanks, Bill.
The concern here, of course, is homeland security. War overseas brings new worries about terrorism here and state and local officials are taking steps to keep Americans safe.
Joining us to talk more about his security plans for New York and how the other nation's governors are reacting to this new heightened state of alert, Governor George Pataki.
Good to see you again, Governor.
GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: Nice to see you, Paula.
ZAHN: There has been so much talk about the nation being at war, about the level of risk being brought up to orange earlier this week, at a time when many states have budget deficits. Are you concerned that the financial burdens of this increased security are going to compromise the security of Americans?
PATAKI: No. We are taking every step we have to to protect the people of New York. And we know that the war really didn't start with the bombs two days ago, it started, in my view, September 11 of 2001 when New York was attacked viciously and for no reason other than we symbolize the strength and the diversity and the freedom of America.
So we're taking every step that we have to to protect the people of New York against possible attacks and, yes, it's expensive, but we're hopeful we'll get help from Washington at the end of the day and whether or not that help comes, we're going to do the first priority of government, which is to protect its people.
ZAHN: You say you're hopeful that you're going to get the help, and that's what a lot of governors are saying, hopeful they'll get their help.
PATAKI: Right.
ZAHN: But there's no assurance you're going to get the money at the end of this period of time.
PATAKI: Well, of course, until Congress acts. Congress hasn't acted. But I've talked with Governor Ridge and he understands the expenses that are being incurred by states. And the most important thing government does, in any eventuality, is to prepare and provide for the safety of its people. And you have to do that. You can't simply say well, until I get a check from Washington, we're not going to increase security at our critical transportation facilities or power plants or other infrastructure. We're going to act to protect the people of New York. That's what we're doing. That's what Mayor Bloomberg is doing and I am hopeful that President Bush and Governor Ridge have expressed their desire to help the states and the city with the costs. And once this is done, I'm hopeful that it's going to happen.
ZAHN: The plan that you and the mayor are spearheading is called Operation Atlas, which is considered to be a model for the rest of the nation.
How so?
PATAKI: Well, I think the mayor has done a great job in putting together Operation Atlas. It has both visible and security measures that you cannot see and it relies first on the tremendous talent of the police department and the emergencies services in New York City. But it's also cooperating with the state and right now we have National Guard troops from all over the state on the subways.
And, Paula, I have to tell you, I was meeting some of them a couple of days ago and we have young guys from the Adirondacks who -- and I'd ask them, have you ever ridden a subway? No. Have you ever been to New York City? No. But they're here. They're helping out. And it's that type of cooperation and spirit among all levels of government and all New Yorkers that makes me so proud and confident of the plans we have in place.
ZAHN: Once again, you don't want Americans making major changes in their lifestyles. You say life goes on.
PATAKI: We have to live our lives. Watch CNN. Go out to dinner.
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Aired March 21, 2003 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Thanks for being with us this morning.
A lot to share with you. We're going to share with you now one view of the war in Iraq, a picture from the desert south of Baghdad, where the Army's 37th Calvary is moving with a purpose. That purpose to be among the first to make it to Baghdad.
Walt Rodgers, who is embedded with the Seventh Cavalry, will be joining us all morning long.
Good morning, everyone.
I'm Paula Zahn in New York -- Bill.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Bill Hemmer.
Good morning again from Kuwait City.
Paula, a quick sample of the news headlines in this region today. "Arab Times" here in Kuwait, and big bold letters, "America Invades Iraq." The "Kuwait Times," a little more explicit, "It's War!" they say, "Its War At Last," a clear reflection of the number of Kuwaitis who tell us that they have been waiting for the time for what they consider the belligerent neighbor to the north led by Saddam Hussein to be finally ousted.
It appears right now that that process is under way right now, if you listen to our reporters. Amazing access for our CNN journalists and we'll have much more for you on that coming up this hour, Paula -- good morning again to you.
ZAHN: Thanks, Bill.
We keep coming back to the picture that I know you spent a lot of time looking at last night, the pictures being beamed to us live from the desert. One picture of the war. Wrong to interpret them as facing not much opposition.
Walt Rodgers, yes, if you have the picture, we can put it up, saying that they have not come under fire within the last 10 hours. In fact, the enemy fire they did receive, actually, was experienced before they even went into Iraq.
There has been limited fighting elsewhere in southern Iraq, including along the Iraqi coast. We're going to be going to all those critical points this morning.
Right now, another check of some of the latest important developments. As Leon just mentioned, a U.S. Marine has become the first American to die in combat. He apparently died during a fight for control over Iraqi oil fields.
Now, there are some conflicting numbers this morning, anywhere from 15 to 30 oil wells burning in southern Iraq near Basra.
CNN White House correspondent Chris Burns is reporting that President Bush on Wednesday night gave the go ahead for the initial attack on Iraq with a margin of only three minutes to allow the F117 Stealth fighters time to make their mission.
And that leads us to our next question, what really happened to Saddam Hussein in those attacks? Iraq's information minister says he is alive, that he is safe. Other sources are saying they're not there yet, they're not so sure, saying he may have been injured or killed in the initial attack Wednesday night.
Meanwhile, though, Bill, the Pentagon is operating under the assumption that he is still alive. That's the very latest from Barbara Starr at the Pentagon -- back to you now.
HEMMER: Yes, Paula, on the ground meanwhile heavy fighting reported for that old port city of Umm Qasr, tough U.S. Marines have reportedly taken control over the new port city. They're separated by about a distance of one mile.
Throughout the morning we've also been seeing some remarkable pictures coming in from CNN's Walter Rodgers, traveling with the Seventh Cavalry, moving virtually unchallenged through the southern Iraqi desert. Walter described it as a wave of steel, possibly extending 20 miles wide with the Third Infantry Division.
Meanwhile, U.S. troops have staged air assaults at two air fields in western Iraq. The area considered important as a possible storage site for SCUD missiles and launchers known as H2 and H3. And Don Shepperd has talked about for days now the importance of these locations.
Also reports that four oil refineries right now and at least 30 oil wells have been set on fire throughout Iraq, sending a smoky haze over Kuwait City. I want to remark right now, though, earlier today the skies behind us were much darker than they are now. It appears either the wind has shifted dramatically or possibly those oil fires that we're told right now are being extinguished by the U.S. Marines, quite successful, we're told, which might be limiting the amount of smoke we're seeing here.
Meanwhile, though, there are casualties to talk about. A U.S. Marine has been killed in action, said to be the first reported coalition combat casualty in this war. And for more on that, the man who reported it first, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, with the Marines at Camp Iwo Jima, northern Kuwait -- Sanjay, good morning.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Bill.
Well, what we're learning now is that this unfortunate KIA, killed in action scenario, occurred this morning. It occurred in southern Iraq and it occurred during an oil field conflict. Those are the three new pieces of information that we've heard. It's an unfortunate story. You and I were talking about it earlier. Marines around this camp, Camp Iwo Jima, some of them knew this particular Marine. It was a bit of a blow, no question about it, but really does not seem to have tainted the confidence in any way of the Marines that I've spoken with at this time, Bill.
But, again, those are the, that's the sort of latest information on that. That comes from a release from the Marines. Obviously no, none of the identifiable features that would be appropriate at this time, but that is what we can tell you now -- Bill.
HEMMER: Sanjay, yesterday it was in and out of that bunker for you all day long. Has it been similar today or less?
GUPTA: It has no question been less today, Bill. We've had three bunker calls, but we had 12 bunker calls yesterday. So it's definitely been less. A couple of other things to note around here, there's been a lot more aerial activity, it seems. We've seen both British as well as U.S. helicopters flying around. There seems to be more of that.
We did have a couple of bunker calls earlier this morning. At that time we also heard the unmistakable sounds of Patriot launches, Patriot missile launches at the time, as well. That has been the most activity.
But today is no doubt a much more quiet day than yesterday -- Bill.
HEMMER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Camp Iwo Jima, with the U.S. Marines. And Sanjay described that missile coming overhead by the Patriot battery apparently with a positive intercept of an Iraqi missile launched earlier today.
One other note, Paula, quickly, more casualties to talk about. In the predawn hours, somewhere around 4:00 a.m. in local time today, a CH-46 helicopter operated by the Marines, a C Night (ph), made a crash in northern Kuwait, killing the four U.S. crew members on board. Eight other troops from the British on board, as well. Said to have gone down not as a result of enemy fire, but possibly mechanical. Not a whole lot of information on this right now. The bottom line, 12 killed in that, four on the U.S. side, eight on the British -- Paula.
ZAHN: Bill, thanks.
In a series of lightning raids earlier today, U.S. and British forces took control of two airfields in western Iraq and an oil field in the south. One of the operations cost the life of a U.S. Marine, the first coalition combat death.
How important are these operations? Why are they so critical? Let's go to our own analyst, U.S. Air Force Major General Don Shepperd, who joins us from Atlanta this morning.
Welcome back, sir.
First of all, help us understand the strategic importance of these joint successes.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Paula, these successes are very, very important. This H1 and H2 and H3 air fields in western Iraq, we have a map that basically shows their importance. These were the SCUD launch areas during the first Gulf War. These are the areas from which the SCUDs were launched into Israel and if this time, if we don't seize those areas and SCUDs were launched again and Israel entered the conflict, it would make our life militarily and diplomatically very, very difficult.
The ground troops, of course, are moving north, but these air fields have been seized evidently in a different manner. We have an animation that shows you how an air field might be seized. It's normally a combination of special operations and also infantry, Ranger type operations here.
Here we have an air field. This could be H2 or H3 air field with all of its facilities there. We have towers. We have what you call hasses, hardened aircraft shelters that shelter aircraft. You can hide missiles, SCUD missiles and that type of thing in there.
What you want to do is take control of this air field. You have to take down the defenses to get in and then you've got to go in and seize the entire air field.
The way we do this is put special operations controllers on the ground. Then we fly in airplanes, basically. The controllers mark the targets on the ground and basically we drop ordinance or fire ordinance on the particular targets to take down the defenses of the air field.
Once you take down the defenses of the air field, then it's safe enough to bring in helicopters and/or later transport aircraft in which you can disgorge troops to completely seize the air fields and take control of it.
All of this is extremely dangerous. It has to be done normally under the cover of darkness, where we have great advantages, and our troops are very well trained to do this, the special operations troops and the Ranger troops from the Army, as well.
Now, we haven't been told exactly how this is being done. We're not displaying tactics here. We're just showing the elements of how it's done. You destroy the defenses based upon intelligence, then you fly people in in helicopters, then you land people in in C-130s and those C-130s carry vehicles and you disgorge the vehicles from the smaller aircraft like the C-130. We even got the new C-130J that can carry even more and then you bring in aircraft such as the C-17, from which you can disgorge tanks.
The whole idea is to take the entire area and make sure that it can not be used to launch SCUD missiles.
We've got the ability to do this, again, with helicopters, with transports and with trained troops that practice this on a regular basis.
Now, again, it appears from Barbara Starr's reports and the Pentagon that we have seized H2 and H3. This is a major military success and saves us from the diplomatic problem of having things launched into Israel which might draw them into the war -- Paula.
ZAHN: Do we have any idea what kind of resistance was encountered...
SHEPPERD: We don't have any early...
ZAHN: ... in taking those air fields?
SHEPPERD: We don't have any early reports yet. But I can tell you that the air fields are defended and very likely they would have had some resistance. Our troops are very well trained. They've got good intelligence of knowing where the defensive positions are and they've got night vision equipment that gives us tremendous advantage when we go in to do this -- Paula.
ZAHN: The other success I think that is very important for you to address is the taking of Umm Qasr, that port on the Faw Peninsula, which is a key strategic location. I think Jason Bellini described how important a place it is. It's a small sliver of that coastline leads you to the Persian Gulf to bring in humanitarian aid. It is also the gateway to the southern Iraqi oil fields.
SHEPPERD: Right.
ZAHN: How significant of a victory is this for coalition forces?
SHEPPERD: Very significant, and it's not all tied up yet. The al-Faw Peninsula, basically what's happening there is the Marines are going north to seize the Rumaylah oil fields. The British are cutting off the al-Faw Peninsula to control it. And the Marines are going further south to seize the port of Umm Qasr.
Now what you want to do there is you want to seize the oil wells to keep them from being ignited. You want to seize the oil gasoline separator plants. You want to seize the refineries and you want to seize the pipelines that lead to the port of Umm Qasr because all of that is the key to taking oil out, which is money for the new economy, and bringing supplies in for humanitarian relief of the economy -- Paula.
ZAHN: And...
SHEPPERD: Very important, very significant, diplomatically and militarily. ZAHN: And a quick reflection on the loss of the first Marine in combat, now apparently in the taking of one of these oil fields.
SHEPPERD: As a military guy, when I hear the word loss I get a lump in my throat. This is the first. There will be more. It's unfortunate. It's part of war.
ZAHN: You've also explained just how extremely dangerous both of these operations you've just talked about were and continue to be.
SHEPPERD: Very dangerous and also, another thing, kind of unseen, gone unnoticed is the very joint and coalition nature of this operation. The ability to bring forces together from different countries and operate intolerably, not shoot each other, take important objectives, is something that we've trained to do and it's paying off from a military standpoint, Paula.
ZAHN: General Shepperd, if you wouldn't mind standing by, we're going to have to learn on you throughout the morning for your insights.
Thanks so much for your input.
SHEPPERD: Thank you.
ZAHN: Back to Bill now in Kuwait City.
HEMMER: All right, Paula, just one thing to add on that U.S. Marine apparently killed in combat while taking a southern oil field. We saw a very telling picture from the Associated Press earlier today with U.S. Marines on the ground, that burning oil fields just a few yards away. At some point during one of these oil well fires, that's, indeed, where that U.S. Marine lost his life.
Back to the Pentagon.
Barbara Starr is watching things from there -- Barbara, what do you have for us now?
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, to put a few things into context, of course, the Pentagon watching very carefully the situation over Baghdad this morning. While it's all quiet at the moment over Baghdad, what they're looking at is the status of the Iraqi command and control system, is there centralized command and control from Baghdad out to military units in the field.
Officials here are telling us today after last night's strikes over Baghdad, they are very uncertain as to exactly what is going on. They do believe the Iraqis are still operating a pretty robust air defense system after the strikes -- you see last night's pictures here. But what they are not sure about is the command and control.
Now, today they say that there's not very much going on on the Iraqi airwaves. The Iraqis are staying off the airwaves. They're staying quiet. What they don't know here is are the Iraqis staying quiet because they're waiting for U.S. forces to get closer to Baghdad and then they plan a counterattack? Or, in fact, has some centralized command and control now really been disrupted, possible leadership killed and is that why the command and control system is so quiet?
The key issue they're trying to figure out in the coming hours. In addition, as we reported earlier, those air fields out in the west, H2 and H3, now under some very initial control of U.S. forces. That's the area where the U.S. believes the Iraqis had always hidden their SCUD missiles since Operation Desert Storm. Moving in there very quickly to ensure that there is no activity with SCUD missiles that could possibly threaten Israel.
Special forces, we are told, also are continuing to operate throughout the country, talking to opposition groups and even trying to earmark key Iraqi military units that they might approach and convince to surrender. A very delicate situation, but we are confirming that that is going on, as well.
Expect to see more of the U.S. psychological operations war in the hours and days ahead. We also have learned that the U.S. military has already prepared a radio message to be piped into Iraq, telling the Iraqi military that they have lost and that it's time for them to give up, that they have lost the war against the U.S. and coalition forces. We don't know if that message has already been piped in, but we know that it is certainly sitting there waiting to go.
And, finally, because now there are so many U.S. ground forces operating throughout southern Iraq, what about those air strikes that have been going on for the last 12 years, Operation Southern Watch? Well, we are told that those strikes continue but on a very selective basis now, very, very careful because with so many ground troops in the region, of course, the U.S. wants to be very sure it doesn't have an accident -- Bill.
HEMMER: Barbara, quickly here, a question for you. I need a short answer, if you can. The cynic in me leads me toward this question. What is the possibility, knowing that shock and awe has not yet happened in Baghdad, that that was all misinformation put out there to the public, put out to folks like us to trick up the Iraqis? Any credence or not?
STARR: Possibly. We will only know the true answer to that when all of this is over. But the fact is this has unfolded largely as an air campaign against the leadership and if they can make the leadership go away, we may never get to shock and awe. But there should probably be a clear answer to that in less than the next 24 hours because there is a feeling that they either have to move on this or have some firm evidence that the Iraqi leadership is no longer in control of the country and they don't have that evidence at the moment.
HEMMER: Barbara Starr from the Pentagon -- Paula.
ZAHN: Thanks so much, Bill.
This strike on Iraq has sparked intense anti-war protests in the United States and overseas. In Cairo, police used water cannons to control stone throwing demonstrators as they marched on the U.S. Embassy.
Joining us now to talk more about the reaction to the war in the Arab world, Ambassador Yahya Mahmassani, the Arab League representative to the United Nations.
Sorry for butchering your name.
AMB. YAHYA MAHMASSANI, ARAB LEAGUE AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: tsar.
ZAHN: A lot of names to memorize today.
MAHMASSANI: It's all right.
ZAHN: Mr. Ambassador, welcome.
MAHMASSANI: Thank you.
ZAHN: We know what the secretary general of the Arab League had to say yesterday. He said the start of the war was a sad day for all Arabs and he called on the U.N. to maintain peace and stop the war.
Give us an idea of the break down of the Arab states who are in agreement with him and those who are not.
MAHMASSANI: Well, you see, the Arab League goes by the decisions of the Arab summit. And all the Arab leaders in the Arab summit recently have taken a decision stating that they reject the war on Iraq and they would like to see a process of peaceful settlement through the inspections.
I think everybody in the Arab world is against the war.
ZAHN: Let me ask you this, are you heartened by the fact that the so-called shock and awe part of this campaign has been postponed because there seems to be some kind of indication there may be some weakness in the power structure in Iraq?
MAHMASSANI: Well, let me say that I think the whole war is wrong. The whole thing is wrong. I think there is no happy missiles and bad missiles. All missiles are bad. All bombs are bad. Any bomb is an evil and therefore I don't think that anything will make a difference. The holy thing is that now this war should be -- it should have been stopped before it started.
ZAHN: Did you really have faith that Saddam Hussein, through an inspection process, would ultimately turn over all of the weapons even Hans Blix said he had in his first report?
MAHMASSANI: Well, why didn't you put him to the test? Why didn't you accept it for just one more month and to find out and put Saddam Hussein to the test? The weapons inspectors, particularly Mr. Blix, said I need just a little bit more time. And if time was given, I think this whole war may have been stopped. All the horrors of the war, all the killing, the body bags, the destruction, all this could have been stopped if you were just a little bit more patient. Why the rush to war? Why did the United States have to go so quickly? What's the reason? And, you know, you don't even tell us why. You start...
ZAHN: You say you. I don't represent the United States government.
MAHMASSANI: OK, I'm sorry. I'm saying the United States. Well, the United States, the administration says that first it's weapons of mass destruction. And then you move into regime change. And then democracy. And then terrorism. Tell me, which one of it? Which one of it is the cause of this war? All of them? Maybe none of them.
ZAHN: Let me ask you this, what do you think the status of Saddam Hussein is? The Pentagon is working under the assumption he is still alive. There's a front page story in the "Washington Post" this morning suggesting that he was injured, but still alive.
MAHMASSANI: Well, you see, well, again, the United States says they have intelligence in the area who have directed them where they should send the missiles. Maybe they should tell what the situation is. But let me say this really. This is a war now between your supreme might and the supreme right of the people to defend themselves, regardless of the leadership. Let's put this aside. The people of Iraq will defend themselves. Sooner or later you will realize this. You'll find out.
ZAHN: Do you ever see Saddam Hussein accepting Bahrain's offer or any other Arab country's offer for exile?
MAHMASSANI: Well, two things. First of all, the Bahrain's offer was not an offer. All what the king of Bahrain said if -- you see all the mass media here forget about the if -- if Saddam Hussein wants to leave, then he's welcome. That's what he said. But, again, this is up to the Iraqi people and to the Iraqi leadership and we still stand by the decision of the Arab summit.
ZAHN: We're going to have to leave it there this morning.
Ambassador Yahya Mahmassani. I did get the name right, finally, at the end.
MAHMASSANI: This time, yes.
ZAHN: Thank you so much, sir.
MAHMASSANI: Thank you.
ZAHN: Appreciate your being patient with us this morning as you were waiting for us to get to your interview.
MAHMASSANI: No problem.
ZAHN: Back to Bill now in Kuwait City.
HEMMER: All right, Paula, listen, Jason Bellini joined us about 30 minutes ago. He, too, has made it inside the Iraqi border, southeastern part of the country. By way of video phone we can talk to Jason again about what he is going through now, traveling with the U.S. Marines, as well -- Jason, what do you have?
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Bill.
Well, we may be interrupted again by some loud explosions behind us. Operations are continuing here at the port of Umm Qasr, other areas of this port. We're in the new port of Umm Qasr right now, which is now in the, under the control of the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit.
With me I have First Lieutenant Desaprara (ph). I apologize. I'm just, we just met you a moment ago. And you were, you came in here with the first Marines to arrive.
DESAPRARA: That's correct. I'm with Fox Company, Second Battalion, First Marines and we were the first ones to come into this port. BELLINI: Now, I understand that you encountered some resistance on your way in.
DESAPRARA: Yes, we did. We encountered some resistance just outside the port. There was about 26 individuals there that they were trying to stage an ambush for us. We shot at them a little bit and once they decided to surrender, we took them all in one fell swoop. BELLINI: How serious of an ambush was this? Did it present a serious threat to you?
DESAPRARA: I think we caught them unawares and because of that they, when they tried to shoot at us, it was half-hearted. And then once they realized that the odds were insurmountable for them, they went ahead, raised their white flags and we just took control of them then. BELLINI: How many people are we talking about?
DESAPRARA: There were 26 at that point. Since then we have picked up about another 26. BELLINI: The other 26 here at the port?
DESAPRARA: In random places throughout the new port. BELLINI: And did you have to, were they armed, these others that you came across?
DESAPRARA: We did have to disarm a fair amount of these EPWs.
BELLINI: OK, very good.
Thank you very much, First Lieutenant.
So, Bill, again, activities are continuing here. We're still hearing the sound of gunfire in the background as this very large port is taken over by the Fifteenth Marine Expeditionary Unit -- Bill.
HEMMER: Jason, tell us more about that port. How critical could that be going forward right now, knowing the ground war is well under way?
BELLINI: Well, Bill, we were told that this was a very key objective and that they wanted to make this one of the very first targets in this war and that, for many symbolic reasons, really. They said they want to show that they, that the U.S. is here to help expedite humanitarian aid and that by taking this port, they will hope to have this place up and running, again, within several days, and to have humanitarian aid flowing through to try to show the Iraqis that this is not an occupying army, that Americans are here, that the U.S. military is here to help them.
That's the message that they've been giving and one of the reasons why they wanted to get here first.
Also, we're located along a major roadway and they wanted to make this area secure for the rest of the Marines as they make their way north -- Bill.
HEMMER: Jason, earlier, at the top of your report, you did mention that explosions under way in and around you. What can you tell us more about what's happening there, at least in the perimeter of your location? BELLINI: Well, it's been quiet now for a minute or so. They really have been intermittent, these explosions and this gunfire that we've been hearing, as other companies within the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit continue on. There are a number of other objectives here within the port and we'll tell you a little bit more about those later -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Jason.
Jason Bellini in southeastern Iraq near that strategic port city that will be quite critical moving forward.
Throughout this entire conflict, the U.S. military in its buildup here, along with the British in Kuwait, has been a bit stymied by the lack of access to any sort of port area. They've been essentially using only one, that's here in Kuwait City north of here, right near Camp Doha, which is the oldest and most established U.S. facility here in Kuwait.
Without the access, up and down the Persian Gulf, it slowed the buildup, backing up ships out in the Persian Gulf unable to unload their supplies. It's quite possible once this port becomes even more free than it is today, in order to gain access, that it could become quite critical.
At this hour, two quick headlines happening in Iraq. Key air fields have been taken in western Iraq and also some strategic oil fields taken near Basra, as well.
Much more a bit later -- Paula, back to you now.
ZAHN: Thanks, Bill.
The concern here, of course, is homeland security. War overseas brings new worries about terrorism here and state and local officials are taking steps to keep Americans safe.
Joining us to talk more about his security plans for New York and how the other nation's governors are reacting to this new heightened state of alert, Governor George Pataki.
Good to see you again, Governor.
GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: Nice to see you, Paula.
ZAHN: There has been so much talk about the nation being at war, about the level of risk being brought up to orange earlier this week, at a time when many states have budget deficits. Are you concerned that the financial burdens of this increased security are going to compromise the security of Americans?
PATAKI: No. We are taking every step we have to to protect the people of New York. And we know that the war really didn't start with the bombs two days ago, it started, in my view, September 11 of 2001 when New York was attacked viciously and for no reason other than we symbolize the strength and the diversity and the freedom of America.
So we're taking every step that we have to to protect the people of New York against possible attacks and, yes, it's expensive, but we're hopeful we'll get help from Washington at the end of the day and whether or not that help comes, we're going to do the first priority of government, which is to protect its people.
ZAHN: You say you're hopeful that you're going to get the help, and that's what a lot of governors are saying, hopeful they'll get their help.
PATAKI: Right.
ZAHN: But there's no assurance you're going to get the money at the end of this period of time.
PATAKI: Well, of course, until Congress acts. Congress hasn't acted. But I've talked with Governor Ridge and he understands the expenses that are being incurred by states. And the most important thing government does, in any eventuality, is to prepare and provide for the safety of its people. And you have to do that. You can't simply say well, until I get a check from Washington, we're not going to increase security at our critical transportation facilities or power plants or other infrastructure. We're going to act to protect the people of New York. That's what we're doing. That's what Mayor Bloomberg is doing and I am hopeful that President Bush and Governor Ridge have expressed their desire to help the states and the city with the costs. And once this is done, I'm hopeful that it's going to happen.
ZAHN: The plan that you and the mayor are spearheading is called Operation Atlas, which is considered to be a model for the rest of the nation.
How so?
PATAKI: Well, I think the mayor has done a great job in putting together Operation Atlas. It has both visible and security measures that you cannot see and it relies first on the tremendous talent of the police department and the emergencies services in New York City. But it's also cooperating with the state and right now we have National Guard troops from all over the state on the subways.
And, Paula, I have to tell you, I was meeting some of them a couple of days ago and we have young guys from the Adirondacks who -- and I'd ask them, have you ever ridden a subway? No. Have you ever been to New York City? No. But they're here. They're helping out. And it's that type of cooperation and spirit among all levels of government and all New Yorkers that makes me so proud and confident of the plans we have in place.
ZAHN: Once again, you don't want Americans making major changes in their lifestyles. You say life goes on.
PATAKI: We have to live our lives. Watch CNN. Go out to dinner.
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