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American Morning

Strike on Iraq: Marines Under Sporadic Fire From Iraqi Forces

Aired March 22, 2003 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. Marines pushing to take control of the key southern city of Basra are coming under sporadic fire from Iraqi forces. You see these pictures, they came from CNN's Martin Savidge, who's traveling with a group of Marines who are disposing of Iraqi heavy equipment that was abandoned by the soldiers.
Now, in that same area, an entire Iraqi military division has surrendered. About 8,000 soldiers in Iraq's 51st Division just laid down their arms yesterday. That's roughly five percent of Iraq's regular army, which is distinctly less trained than the Republican Guard.

CNN's coverage of the strike on Iraq continues right now.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

Welcome.

I'm Paula Zahn.

You're looking at a live picture of downtown Baghdad. Air raid sirens punctuating the day there, just as evening prayers were about to be called. We're keeping an eye on this picture because we don't know what the source of this smoke is. Clearly, we haven't seen anything today like what happened about 9:00 p.m. last night Baghdad time. The all out air assault began with an incredible display of firepower. Reporters on the ground there called it awesome. For weeks now, the Pentagon has been preparing us for these pictures, but obviously it is hard for a lot of people to watch this.

Now, we have been led to believe we are more than halfway through the first 24 hours of the Shock and Awe campaign. In all, some 2,000 sorties expected to be flown, some 1,500 bombs and cruise missiles expected to be launched.

Bill, we checked in with General Shepperd to find out what he thought the source of the smoke was. Of course, no one knows. But he said it would not surprise him if the Iraqis might be caught off guard today by some daylight strikes, something the military doesn't normally like to do, making our planes much more vulnerable, of course -- Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, and also east of that city, Paula, where some of those reports are coming in, there is a large air field there, as well. Oftentimes air fields are targets in terms of the buildings on the ground. But in terms of damaging the runway, many times you want to keep that intact.

He also pointed out, Paula, that the bridges so far in central Baghdad have not been touched. Clearly, this is a tactical strike aimed largely at government centers and also military installations, as well.

Listen, Paula, a lot to keep track of again today on this Saturday.

Christiane Amanpour in southeastern Iraq, just back from that fight to take the port city of Umm Qasr. Quoting a British commander there as saying it is not going as quickly as we thought. However, we're told there are pockets of resistance but both ports, the old and the new, a short time ago, we were told, are secure.

Walter Rodgers traveling with the 3rd Squadron of the 7th Cavalry says the spearhead expects to start moving again toward Baghdad shortly. That unit held up earlier today while jets, helicopters, artillery called in to deal with an Iraqi detachment that fired on it. Eight, 10 Warthogs. They fly low and they fly slow and they take out tanks for the large part, came in overhead of Walter in front of his position there.

Northern Iraq, also, Kevin Sites of CNN told by a Kurdish group that the U.S. has launched an attack against territory held by Ansar al-Islam. That is a group, considered a terrorist group, which the secretary of state, Colin Powell, in the past has linked to al Qaeda.

Updates on all these developments throughout the day here -- Paula.

ZAHN: Bill, so much to take in this morning, and we have eyes and ears in all parts of Iraq. Here is a big picture of the war as it stands right now. We have been waiting to hear from the U.S. commander in charge of coalition forces. Today we will. General Tommy Franks will give his first news briefing this morning at 9:00 Eastern Time. And we will be hearing from our embedded reporters positioned with military units all across the Central Time.

Martin Savidge is seeing sporadic fighting as Marines fan out through Southern Iraq. Walt Rodgers is with the Army's 3-7th, advancing on Baghdad. We are told they're about 160 miles away from Baghdad at this hour. And Christiane Amanpour is in Kuwait after going to the scene of the fighting there yesterday as a very critical strategic port was taken under control by coalition forces.

U.S. Marines this morning came under fire outside of Basra, Iraq, as they were trying to destroy disabled Iraqi tanks.

Martin Savidge is embedded with the 1st Battalion 7th Marines and was there when it happened. Here is some of his dramatic report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let me tell you what is going on. Those are secondary blasts coming. This is the demolition of the tanks, T-55 tanks, along the line here. What they're doing is hurriedly setting charges. They're using both c4 and other explosive devices, as well as the ammunition that's on board the tank itself.

What they've done is they've blown it up, essentially. Now you're hearing the secondary explosions. That would be coming from the rounds inside. They want to make sure they don't leave anything behind that could be used by, say, flown soldiers, Iraqi soldiers that might be in hiding right now. The moment they find armor, the moment they find any tanks, they're blowing it up, and that's exactly what is taking place in the background here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think my (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

SAVIDGE: All right, yes, that was a troll (ph) missile fired in the general area where you saw that tank before that was being blown up. Obviously they're seeing stuff down there they're not too happy about, not taking any chances. The troll (ph) missile is a very heavy weapon. They pulled the tube off the top. They'll get ready to reload again. They'll try to move positions, too.

We're not exactly sure what they're seeing up there at this point. I mean obviously we're still trying to keep our heads up around ourselves. At the same time, the demolition crews are preparing the other tanks and we'll try to bring that to you.

They seem to be concerned about, obviously, the village itself, not that there is obvious reason to be suspect. It's just that that's an area of population. You keep an eye on that. You want to make sure that any Iraqi soldiers, anyone who might want to do the U.S. military harm is not using the village as shelter, as cover, a place where they can easily melt away into.

So, that's their concern there.

There you are -- it's getting hot. Let's go. That looks like a armored personnel carrier. We're going to keep moving back because these also have ammunition inside of them. There goes your tank down the end. And the secondary explosions that are about to go off.

You're all right, Gerard, keep coming back. Let's pull back.

So, the concern, obviously, in that RPG is that it came from the village and now who fired it? And do they have another one, obviously, which is why we're not going to linger too much longer. But there are more tanks to go so if you missed that one, there'll be another one soon enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) clearly released. Check.

SAVIDGE: It's just Saddam's hardware being taken apart piece by piece and that is something the U.S. military wants to do and did extensively after the Gulf War.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Well, that clearly proves how valuable the embedding process worked. That is about the only way we are getting information on an hourly basis, in addition to some of the briefings we've been given from time to time.

Martin Savidge also went on to report about the biggest challenge facing those men and women is the fact that while the villagers appear to be friendly, it's very difficult to root out the good from the bad there. They actually have loudspeakers broadcasting messages in Arabic to tell the villagers to stay away and you will be safe. So yet another challenge, Martin Savidge and the members of the 1st Battalion 7th Marines face on the ground there.

We are keeping our eye on this picture out of Baghdad. We wish we could give you more perspective at this hour. We saw this about 40 minutes ago. Air raid sirens were sounded in Baghdad shortly before calls for evening prayer were made. We don't know what the source of it is. There had been speculation that maybe it has something to do with oil fields. We just really can't confirm that right now.

But General Shepperd, our expert out of CNN Center, says it would not surprise him if at some point during daylight hours we see more air strikes. The Pentagon leading us to believe that the first 24 hours of this Shock and Awe campaign might come to a close around 1:00 p.m. Eastern Time. Once again, the plan is very fluid. There's a lot of flexibility built into that plan and we're hoping at about shortly about nine o'clock today that we will hear from General Tommy Franks and get more details on what might come next -- Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Paula, listening to Marty's report, fascinating report from him. It was about a year ago that Marty Savidge, along with a reporter, photograph Scott McGwinnie (ph), were with the U.S. Army in Operation Anaconda, the only journalist, the eyes and the ears of the operation under way in eastern Afghanistan a year ago. It was the largest operation of the entire war in Afghanistan.

They saw combat then and they've seen it again today. An extraordinary look inside what's happening across the border in Iraq so far today.

Matthew Chance, meanwhile, is stationed in eastern Jordan, right along the Iraqi border. There's a large question right now about refugees -- how many will there be, when do they come and how will they be treated?

Matthew is standing by and we'll check in with him in a moment.

First, back here in Kuwait, on an air base out in the Kuwaiti desert, CNN's Bob Franken checks in.

He's embedded with the U.S. Air Force -- Bob, hello. good afternoon.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello. Good afternoon, Bill.

And, of course, officially we can only refer to this as a base near the Iraq border. You know about the sensitivities. But even though there are restrictions on the reporting -- that has been well documented -- we were allowed access to the flight line as the dramatic launch of just waves of jets from the United States Air Force and the Royal Air Force took off flying sorties (UNINTELLIGIBLE) end of the day.

The numbers are quite interesting. The day before they had had 141 sorties, which, of course, means individual flights. In the 24 hour period that followed that that ended this morning, 250. And we're told by the people who have been briefing us that they can expect a rather large increase again.

It's exactly, really kind of hard to predict, they say. They've been flying missions all over Iraq. In fact, it's probably fair to say most of them have been in the areas except Baghdad. They've been, in fact, flying an intense war throughout, supporting ground troops for the most part. One of the main planes that takes off from here is the A10. It's called the wart hog. It is this anti-tank plane that is devastating and it's involved in what they call battlefield preparations. And they have been going all over the country. As a matter of fact, they also say that they took out one surface to surface missile site. That's what they call it. It means a SCUD missile site.

One of the things that had happened yesterday is that a missile was brought down by a Patriot missile, an anti-missile missile. And the planes scrambled from here, we're told, and were able to take out that site.

It's going to be buys. It's going to continue to be busy for several days. This is one of the main arms of the ground part of the air war and it is well under way -- Bill.

HEMMER: Bob Franken embedded with the U.S. Air Force.

Bob, thanks.

And again today what we have seen, Paula, our journalists embedded with the U.S. military are our own eyes and ears on the ground. Without them and without their reporting, we would not be getting the information we're getting thus far. This embedded program to this point that I think has been remarkable. If you look at the pictures and listen to the stories and the reports, it has been unbelievable access. I've got to think the Pentagon is quite happy with the way things have gone so far.

Had we thought it would have gone this way in the very beginning, I think I might have changed my opinion. But I was a skeptic, to be quite honest with you.

More from Kuwait in a moment -- back to you now in New York.

ZAHN: Thanks so much, Bill.

Our own Matthew Chance is at a refugee camp in Ruweished, Jordan. He has the very latest from there -- Matthew, what's the latest?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you very much, Paula.

And I'm here a short distance from the Jordanian frontier with Iraq at a camp, a facility that has been set up in conjunction with the Jordanian authorities, the aid agencies in conjunction with the Jordanian authorities to take the third country nationals. We have here about 300 of those kinds of people, people from Sudan and Somalia and from other countries in the region who were living or studying and working in Iraq with their families but who have chosen the last 48 hour period, of course, to escape the U.S.-led bombardment into the relative safety of Jordan.

The aid agencies here, the International Federation of the Red Cross and the Red Crescent are making sure that they have adequate facilities to cater for the several hundred people who have been coming through, making sure there are toilets and showers and sort of registration facilities., before these people are moved onto buses and taken to the seaports and the airports and finally returned home to their home original countries.

Now, what we are not seeing at the moment are any number at all of Iraqi nationals coming out of their country to the relative safety of Jordan. There is a facility a short distance from here which the Jordanian authorities have set up with the United Nations High Commission for Refugees to cater to some 10,000 Iraqi refugees should they come out of the country. But as I say, that expected exodus has not materialized yet -- Paula.

ZAHN: Matthew Chance, thanks so much.

We have what we believe to be some news on the fate of the town of Nassiriya. There are some reports that it has fallen to coalition forces. CNN can't confirm that at this point. But this is a strategically important town.

General Shepperd joins us from CNN Center to help us understand why.

General Shepperd?

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Paula, recently Saddam Hussein divided his country into four different military areas controlled by party functionaries and his relatives. The southern area, and al-Nassiriya is basically the headquarters of that southern area, is commanded by Ali Hassan al- Majid, the famous Chemical Ali, if you will, and a cousin of Saddam Hussein's.

This is a headquarters and so it is a strategic point. It's about a third of the way between Basra and Baghdad, indicating the rapid advance of forces in that particular area. So this is militarily significant, but there probably will be a lot of cleanup to be done afterwards, Paula.

ZAHN: And talk about this key crossing point across the Tigris.

SHEPPERD: Yes, actually there are 12 key Bridges across the Tigris River in downtown Baghdad. Now, we have received reports that there were 37 targets actually struck in the complex that we have been talking about on the west bank of the Tigris River and a couple of those bridges leading into that compound were reportedly struck.

Now, we don't know if that information is accurate. We're waiting for the briefing by General Tommy Franks. Perhaps we'll get more details on what was struck. And then I expect them to spend the daylight hours doing bomb damage assessment, to see what they need to go back and strike again.

Paula?

ZAHN: General Shepperd, I'm going to ask you to do something very difficult, but I know you've been watching this picture alongside all of us this morning of Baghdad, downtown Baghdad. Now it seems that this plume of smoke is not as diffuse as it was just a couple of minutes ago. Tell us what you're thinking this could potentially be.

SHEPPERD: I don't know what it is, but I can tell you that it has to do with petroleum, oil and lubricants because of the dark black smoke. Now, there are no refineries in downtown Baghdad. There are storage facilities. There are also underground hiding places, if you will, for many of the things that we've been worried about, weapons of mass destruction, etc.

So I can't tell you by looking at it what it is. But I can tell you this, in addition to the complex on the west bank of the Tigris River that was stuck, there are many other militarily significant targets interspersed in the populated area of downtown Baghdad. These include air defenses and Republican Guard concentrations of troops, headquarters, communications sites, etc.

A lot of the things that were bombed on this western bank of the Tigris you will be bombing empty buildings where the people are not there, but then again underground bunkers and this type of thing. So we can't tell what's burning and exactly until we get briefed by General Franks, I believe.

ZAHN: And General Shepperd, it's interesting that you should say that, because one reporter from London, from one of the London newspapers who was on the ground at the time of yesterday's huge barrage of fire said it was her understanding that a number of these buildings that were hit were not even known to Iraqis.

SHEPPERD: Yes, this complex is a military and civilian complex of the government. Think of this, if you will, as Capitol Hill and the Pentagon spread over several miles in downtown Washington, D.C. with all of our State Department buildings, our military headquarters, defense intelligence agencies, CIA, FBI, that type of thing. Think of it as that type of complex and you can see the enormous difficulty of striking it, bringing down that type of infrastructure. And that's basically what's been going on there in downtown Baghdad, Paula.

ZAHN: General Shepperd, we were initially told that the first stage of the Shock and Awe campaign would last some 24 hours. Do you have reason to believe that would still be the case and at about 1:00 p.m. that might be the end of the first phase of this? Or is the battle plan so flexible we just can't even say that at this hour?

SHEPPERD: You know, we're all guessing, but I suspect that the follow-on plans, I think you're looking at another couple of days of this type of thing, the same type of thing that we saw on the first day. Again, assessment each day, seeing what needs to be restruck and seeing any emerging targets.

The intelligence sources are looking for new, emerging targets. In addition, they're looking for new command and control facilities where people move to communicate and move their forces in the field, Paula.

ZAHN: Once again, we focus our attention now on that cloud of black, that plume of black smoke that continues to rise from the ground there.

General Shepperd, I know you were saying that it's your understanding that there are a number of underground hiding places in Baghdad where Saddam Hussein might be stashing things. Once again, because you say the color of what you're looking at would suggest to you lubricants, some sort of petroleum product?

SHEPPERD: Yes, indeed. That's what gives you black smoke. If buildings are burning it's normally either grayish or whitish smoke. This is definitely fuel. Now, Republican Guard, of which there is a great number in the Baghdad area, they have to have fuel, so perhaps we've found a fuel storage facility and hit it with precision weapons, Paula. I just don't know.

ZAHN: And would there be anything there that Saddam Hussein, that we know would want to sabotage that close into the center of Baghdad?

SHEPPERD: That doesn't make any sense to me at all. I think we've hit a militarily significant target. That's my guess.

ZAHN: General Shepperd, thanks so much.

Once again, the air raid sirens were sounded in Baghdad just about an hour ago, about the time that evening prayers were being called. As soon as we have more information on all of this, we'll bring it to you live.

In the meantime, let's go back to Bill in Kuwait City -- Bill.

HEMMER: Paula, some time very soon we're told we're going to see some sort of parallel movement into Iraq, not just the military, which we're concentrating on right now. But you're going to see a shift toward the humanitarian effort, as well. We're told there could be a massive amount of humanitarian aid flown into Iraq. Already today into Kuwait we're hearing the World Food Program is getting ready to fly in 40 tons of food biscuits. Just a motorcycle behind me on the highway that goes right along our hotel here. Normally it's very busy. Today it's almost deserted. It's been that way for about three days running. That's a rare sound that we've heard here.

Meanwhile, 40 tons of food biscuits, World Food Program flying in here to Kuwait today. The British are saying possibly about 48 hours from now they could start taking some of this food into Iraq and maybe even to that port city of Umm Qasr, something to track.

Forty-eight hours may be optimistic right now, but it's something that on the humanitarian side they're very hopeful can get under way.

Let's get to the White House right now.

Suzanne Malveaux, front lawn, talking about the president and his weekend away at Camp David, certainly not far from what's happening here, with his advisers going with him -- Suzanne, good morning.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

Absolutely, the president really keeping his finger on the pulse of what is happening. He is at Camp David. We are told that he is going to have a meeting with his full war council. That is what they call it now, the war council, with the vice president as well as Secretary Powell, Secretary Rumsfeld, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, the head of the CIA and the chairman of the joint chiefs, among others. This is a place where the president spent much time after September 11, 2001, after the terrorist attacks, as you can see in these photos.

It is really a place where it has completely secure video conferencing. The president can talk to anyone in the world. This is where they're going to be assessing the damage and where to move forward both on the military as well as the political front.

Should also note, as well, Bill, that they're going to be dealing with another issue, these reports coming from the Iraqi information minister of 200 plus civilian casualties, also the report from Barbara Starr about that Tomahawk missile that may have missed its target and landed in southwest Iran.

Now, these are things the administration, of course, realized and anticipates the kind of criticism that may come with the campaign. This is why the administration, somewhat in a preemptive public relations strike of its own, has talked about this, that the president was involved in the war planning and selecting the targets, making sure that they were far from civilian areas, also that the most precision weapons are being used and the fact that Saddam Hussein, they accuse him of using his own people as human shields.

But right now the American people, about two thirds are supporting the president in his war effort. If those numbers on civilian casualties and these type of mishaps, that may change -- Bill.

HEMMER: Suzanne, the White House put out a few pictures yesterday with Condoleezza Rice out at Camp David with the president. At the briefing yesterday, though, Ari Fleischer was peppered with these questions about whether or not President Bush was watching on television the images that no doubt millions of people around the world were when the opening phase of Shock and Awe, as the Pentagon calls it, got under way, this seven minute barrage in Baghdad.

Should it come as much surprise that the president did not take time -- because clearly the impression was left that the president did not stop and watch this on TV?

MALVEAUX: Well, as a matter of fact, Bill, a senior administration official later in the day said that the president did watch some of that on television with his chief of staff, Andy Card, in the study right off the Oval Office there. And the point that Ari Fleischer was making, the spokesperson, is that the president does not get his information from television, that he doesn't watch a lot of TV. That was a rather sensitive subject in the briefing yesterday, as you noticed.

But, yes, the president is aware of what the American people are seeing, those images, those very dramatic images on television. And Ari Fleischer saying the president is very much aware of the impact of the decision to go to war -- Bill.

HEMMER: Suzanne Malveaux, front lawn of the White House, thanks.

Thirty-seven minutes away from Tommy Franks live in Qatar. We'll have it for you here on CNN -- Paula.

ZAHN: Thanks so much, Bill.

Twelve British and American Marines were killed in a helicopter crash in Kuwait yesterday. Among them, Major J. Thomas Aubin.

His father, Thomas Aubin, joins us now by telephone.

Mr. Aubin, obviously this is an extremely difficult time for you and your family and I very much appreciate your joining us this morning.

VOICE OF TOM AUBIN, FATHER OF CAPT. JAY AUBIN: Thank you.

ZAHN: Mr. Aubin, I wanted to start off by reading something one of your local congressmen had to say that I think captures the way a lot of Americans feel about the great service of your son and the others who lost their lives. He said, "These brave young men have given what Abraham Lincoln so eloquently deemed the last full measure of devotion to their country. We will remember their sacrifice and honor their services on our behalf.

Our hearts and prayers go out to their families."

AUBIN: Yes, ma'am.

ZAHN: When did you find out this news, sir?

AUBIN: Yesterday, about 8:30 at night.

VOICE OF CAROL AUBIN, MAJ. JAY AUBIN'S STEPMOTHER: No, the day before.

AUBIN: Yes, I'm mixed up among the days. But it was a great loss. He was a good boy. He really was. He loved flying. He loved aviation. He'd been born and brought up with flying, worked his way through college so he could go back into the Marine Corps. He just loved the Marine Corps. He was dead set against the Marine Corps. He loved it.

ZAHN: And I understand he got his love of flying from you. Is it true that he would join you in a two seater plane at the age of two?

AUBIN: Oh, yes. He loved it. He was in there before two and he loved airplanes. He just would fly with us and we'd loosen up his seatbelt and we would do like roller coasters. And him and his brother would sit there and they'd laugh and they just loved flying, you know. He's going to be missed. The military lost a great man, you know? It's hard to talk about it. And I feel bad for all of the others that's been lost, too, in that crash.

ZAHN: Well, we are so sorry. We have read a lot of what has been written about your son and his great service. Family and friends describe your son as a friendly and genuine man who was always smiling, a man who pursued flying with determination and they said he was passionate about his job. He loved his country. You said he loved the Marines.

AUBIN: Yes.

ZAHN: When did you see this commitment to the Marines and this love of Marines forming?

AUBIN: Just right out when he graduated, he went into the Marine Corps. He started on the S.S. Ranger then he got out of the Marine Corps, went to college, got his master's degree, got an A&P license, a machinist's license, reenlisted back into the Marine Corps. And his wife was, is an ex-Marine. She was in the Marine Corps. He met her on the S.S. Ranger. She was stationed on that and that's how they met.

ZAHN: And I know the two of them have two beautiful children here, and Alicia who's 10 and Nathan seven.

AUBIN: Yes, ma'am.

ZAHN: How are they all doing?

AUBIN: Well, they've had to give her -- she's doing, having a very hard time, like all the rest of us. Yes. She's having a very, very hard time. But I stand behind President Bush 100 percent. I just wished all of the other people would stand behind him and stop all this fighting and arguing and...

CAROL AUBIN: Help those people in Kuwait and Iraq.

ZAHN: Is that Nancy, Mr. Aubin, who's joining us? AUBIN: No.

ZAHN: No?

CAROL AUBIN: This is Jay's step mom, Carol. I'm Jay's step mom.

ZAHN: What would you like to tell us about Captain Jay?

CAROL AUBIN: He was just a great, great person, you know? Anything he did, he was going to give it all he had and then some. He would set a goal, he'd set a really high goal and he would just meet it, you know? He would just concentrate on that one goal. And he wanted to go into the Marines so he would train and, you know, he got in there and got into it and he did the best he could and right at the top all the time, just fight his way to the top, you know?

ZAHN: And Mr. Aubin, I thought what you said earlier was so poignant, about your support for President Bush as this war continues.

AUBIN: Yes.

ZAHN: Is there anything else you'd like to say about that? So much of the focus of this war...

AUBIN: I just...

ZAHN: ... has been so faro on, you know, on the military campaign and not on the human side of this and the loss that your family has endured and that other families in America will endure, as well.

AUBIN: I just wish one thing, I wish President Bush everything we're 100 percent behind him. I wish the protesters would go help the needy, pick up trash beside the road. They don't have to be out there and taking all our cops from doing other things. It's just a great, great loss to us.

ZAHN: Well, we are so, so sorry.

CAROL AUBIN: Yes. I'm pretty much just staying in denial, too, because it's going to be hard in the next week or two, until Jay gets home. So I'm just trying to stay together and, you know, I mean he's all, he'll always be in our hearts, you know? But he had dedicated his life so we didn't get to see him too much. We were hoping after he got out of the service we'd see more of him, because he'd go away for two or three years at a time to a school and, you know, be in Japan or a different country for a couple of years.

AUBIN: We had him here. We had the little airport here. We was hoping he could come here.

CAROL AUBIN: Yes, and help us work on some airplanes, maybe spend some time, you know, between him and Tom, maybe I could get my A&P license.

ZAHN: Well, our prayers are with your family. CAROL AUBIN: Yes. Does anybody have...

ZAHN: I hope it brings you a measure of comfort that America really salutes your son's dignity and his service to his country. Once again, a local congressman describing it, as Abraham Lincoln once said, "the last full measure of devotion to their country."

Again, thanks so much.

Back to Bill in Kuwait City.

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Aired March 22, 2003 - 08:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. Marines pushing to take control of the key southern city of Basra are coming under sporadic fire from Iraqi forces. You see these pictures, they came from CNN's Martin Savidge, who's traveling with a group of Marines who are disposing of Iraqi heavy equipment that was abandoned by the soldiers.
Now, in that same area, an entire Iraqi military division has surrendered. About 8,000 soldiers in Iraq's 51st Division just laid down their arms yesterday. That's roughly five percent of Iraq's regular army, which is distinctly less trained than the Republican Guard.

CNN's coverage of the strike on Iraq continues right now.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

Welcome.

I'm Paula Zahn.

You're looking at a live picture of downtown Baghdad. Air raid sirens punctuating the day there, just as evening prayers were about to be called. We're keeping an eye on this picture because we don't know what the source of this smoke is. Clearly, we haven't seen anything today like what happened about 9:00 p.m. last night Baghdad time. The all out air assault began with an incredible display of firepower. Reporters on the ground there called it awesome. For weeks now, the Pentagon has been preparing us for these pictures, but obviously it is hard for a lot of people to watch this.

Now, we have been led to believe we are more than halfway through the first 24 hours of the Shock and Awe campaign. In all, some 2,000 sorties expected to be flown, some 1,500 bombs and cruise missiles expected to be launched.

Bill, we checked in with General Shepperd to find out what he thought the source of the smoke was. Of course, no one knows. But he said it would not surprise him if the Iraqis might be caught off guard today by some daylight strikes, something the military doesn't normally like to do, making our planes much more vulnerable, of course -- Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, and also east of that city, Paula, where some of those reports are coming in, there is a large air field there, as well. Oftentimes air fields are targets in terms of the buildings on the ground. But in terms of damaging the runway, many times you want to keep that intact.

He also pointed out, Paula, that the bridges so far in central Baghdad have not been touched. Clearly, this is a tactical strike aimed largely at government centers and also military installations, as well.

Listen, Paula, a lot to keep track of again today on this Saturday.

Christiane Amanpour in southeastern Iraq, just back from that fight to take the port city of Umm Qasr. Quoting a British commander there as saying it is not going as quickly as we thought. However, we're told there are pockets of resistance but both ports, the old and the new, a short time ago, we were told, are secure.

Walter Rodgers traveling with the 3rd Squadron of the 7th Cavalry says the spearhead expects to start moving again toward Baghdad shortly. That unit held up earlier today while jets, helicopters, artillery called in to deal with an Iraqi detachment that fired on it. Eight, 10 Warthogs. They fly low and they fly slow and they take out tanks for the large part, came in overhead of Walter in front of his position there.

Northern Iraq, also, Kevin Sites of CNN told by a Kurdish group that the U.S. has launched an attack against territory held by Ansar al-Islam. That is a group, considered a terrorist group, which the secretary of state, Colin Powell, in the past has linked to al Qaeda.

Updates on all these developments throughout the day here -- Paula.

ZAHN: Bill, so much to take in this morning, and we have eyes and ears in all parts of Iraq. Here is a big picture of the war as it stands right now. We have been waiting to hear from the U.S. commander in charge of coalition forces. Today we will. General Tommy Franks will give his first news briefing this morning at 9:00 Eastern Time. And we will be hearing from our embedded reporters positioned with military units all across the Central Time.

Martin Savidge is seeing sporadic fighting as Marines fan out through Southern Iraq. Walt Rodgers is with the Army's 3-7th, advancing on Baghdad. We are told they're about 160 miles away from Baghdad at this hour. And Christiane Amanpour is in Kuwait after going to the scene of the fighting there yesterday as a very critical strategic port was taken under control by coalition forces.

U.S. Marines this morning came under fire outside of Basra, Iraq, as they were trying to destroy disabled Iraqi tanks.

Martin Savidge is embedded with the 1st Battalion 7th Marines and was there when it happened. Here is some of his dramatic report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let me tell you what is going on. Those are secondary blasts coming. This is the demolition of the tanks, T-55 tanks, along the line here. What they're doing is hurriedly setting charges. They're using both c4 and other explosive devices, as well as the ammunition that's on board the tank itself.

What they've done is they've blown it up, essentially. Now you're hearing the secondary explosions. That would be coming from the rounds inside. They want to make sure they don't leave anything behind that could be used by, say, flown soldiers, Iraqi soldiers that might be in hiding right now. The moment they find armor, the moment they find any tanks, they're blowing it up, and that's exactly what is taking place in the background here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think my (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

SAVIDGE: All right, yes, that was a troll (ph) missile fired in the general area where you saw that tank before that was being blown up. Obviously they're seeing stuff down there they're not too happy about, not taking any chances. The troll (ph) missile is a very heavy weapon. They pulled the tube off the top. They'll get ready to reload again. They'll try to move positions, too.

We're not exactly sure what they're seeing up there at this point. I mean obviously we're still trying to keep our heads up around ourselves. At the same time, the demolition crews are preparing the other tanks and we'll try to bring that to you.

They seem to be concerned about, obviously, the village itself, not that there is obvious reason to be suspect. It's just that that's an area of population. You keep an eye on that. You want to make sure that any Iraqi soldiers, anyone who might want to do the U.S. military harm is not using the village as shelter, as cover, a place where they can easily melt away into.

So, that's their concern there.

There you are -- it's getting hot. Let's go. That looks like a armored personnel carrier. We're going to keep moving back because these also have ammunition inside of them. There goes your tank down the end. And the secondary explosions that are about to go off.

You're all right, Gerard, keep coming back. Let's pull back.

So, the concern, obviously, in that RPG is that it came from the village and now who fired it? And do they have another one, obviously, which is why we're not going to linger too much longer. But there are more tanks to go so if you missed that one, there'll be another one soon enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) clearly released. Check.

SAVIDGE: It's just Saddam's hardware being taken apart piece by piece and that is something the U.S. military wants to do and did extensively after the Gulf War.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Well, that clearly proves how valuable the embedding process worked. That is about the only way we are getting information on an hourly basis, in addition to some of the briefings we've been given from time to time.

Martin Savidge also went on to report about the biggest challenge facing those men and women is the fact that while the villagers appear to be friendly, it's very difficult to root out the good from the bad there. They actually have loudspeakers broadcasting messages in Arabic to tell the villagers to stay away and you will be safe. So yet another challenge, Martin Savidge and the members of the 1st Battalion 7th Marines face on the ground there.

We are keeping our eye on this picture out of Baghdad. We wish we could give you more perspective at this hour. We saw this about 40 minutes ago. Air raid sirens were sounded in Baghdad shortly before calls for evening prayer were made. We don't know what the source of it is. There had been speculation that maybe it has something to do with oil fields. We just really can't confirm that right now.

But General Shepperd, our expert out of CNN Center, says it would not surprise him if at some point during daylight hours we see more air strikes. The Pentagon leading us to believe that the first 24 hours of this Shock and Awe campaign might come to a close around 1:00 p.m. Eastern Time. Once again, the plan is very fluid. There's a lot of flexibility built into that plan and we're hoping at about shortly about nine o'clock today that we will hear from General Tommy Franks and get more details on what might come next -- Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Paula, listening to Marty's report, fascinating report from him. It was about a year ago that Marty Savidge, along with a reporter, photograph Scott McGwinnie (ph), were with the U.S. Army in Operation Anaconda, the only journalist, the eyes and the ears of the operation under way in eastern Afghanistan a year ago. It was the largest operation of the entire war in Afghanistan.

They saw combat then and they've seen it again today. An extraordinary look inside what's happening across the border in Iraq so far today.

Matthew Chance, meanwhile, is stationed in eastern Jordan, right along the Iraqi border. There's a large question right now about refugees -- how many will there be, when do they come and how will they be treated?

Matthew is standing by and we'll check in with him in a moment.

First, back here in Kuwait, on an air base out in the Kuwaiti desert, CNN's Bob Franken checks in.

He's embedded with the U.S. Air Force -- Bob, hello. good afternoon.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello. Good afternoon, Bill.

And, of course, officially we can only refer to this as a base near the Iraq border. You know about the sensitivities. But even though there are restrictions on the reporting -- that has been well documented -- we were allowed access to the flight line as the dramatic launch of just waves of jets from the United States Air Force and the Royal Air Force took off flying sorties (UNINTELLIGIBLE) end of the day.

The numbers are quite interesting. The day before they had had 141 sorties, which, of course, means individual flights. In the 24 hour period that followed that that ended this morning, 250. And we're told by the people who have been briefing us that they can expect a rather large increase again.

It's exactly, really kind of hard to predict, they say. They've been flying missions all over Iraq. In fact, it's probably fair to say most of them have been in the areas except Baghdad. They've been, in fact, flying an intense war throughout, supporting ground troops for the most part. One of the main planes that takes off from here is the A10. It's called the wart hog. It is this anti-tank plane that is devastating and it's involved in what they call battlefield preparations. And they have been going all over the country. As a matter of fact, they also say that they took out one surface to surface missile site. That's what they call it. It means a SCUD missile site.

One of the things that had happened yesterday is that a missile was brought down by a Patriot missile, an anti-missile missile. And the planes scrambled from here, we're told, and were able to take out that site.

It's going to be buys. It's going to continue to be busy for several days. This is one of the main arms of the ground part of the air war and it is well under way -- Bill.

HEMMER: Bob Franken embedded with the U.S. Air Force.

Bob, thanks.

And again today what we have seen, Paula, our journalists embedded with the U.S. military are our own eyes and ears on the ground. Without them and without their reporting, we would not be getting the information we're getting thus far. This embedded program to this point that I think has been remarkable. If you look at the pictures and listen to the stories and the reports, it has been unbelievable access. I've got to think the Pentagon is quite happy with the way things have gone so far.

Had we thought it would have gone this way in the very beginning, I think I might have changed my opinion. But I was a skeptic, to be quite honest with you.

More from Kuwait in a moment -- back to you now in New York.

ZAHN: Thanks so much, Bill.

Our own Matthew Chance is at a refugee camp in Ruweished, Jordan. He has the very latest from there -- Matthew, what's the latest?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you very much, Paula.

And I'm here a short distance from the Jordanian frontier with Iraq at a camp, a facility that has been set up in conjunction with the Jordanian authorities, the aid agencies in conjunction with the Jordanian authorities to take the third country nationals. We have here about 300 of those kinds of people, people from Sudan and Somalia and from other countries in the region who were living or studying and working in Iraq with their families but who have chosen the last 48 hour period, of course, to escape the U.S.-led bombardment into the relative safety of Jordan.

The aid agencies here, the International Federation of the Red Cross and the Red Crescent are making sure that they have adequate facilities to cater for the several hundred people who have been coming through, making sure there are toilets and showers and sort of registration facilities., before these people are moved onto buses and taken to the seaports and the airports and finally returned home to their home original countries.

Now, what we are not seeing at the moment are any number at all of Iraqi nationals coming out of their country to the relative safety of Jordan. There is a facility a short distance from here which the Jordanian authorities have set up with the United Nations High Commission for Refugees to cater to some 10,000 Iraqi refugees should they come out of the country. But as I say, that expected exodus has not materialized yet -- Paula.

ZAHN: Matthew Chance, thanks so much.

We have what we believe to be some news on the fate of the town of Nassiriya. There are some reports that it has fallen to coalition forces. CNN can't confirm that at this point. But this is a strategically important town.

General Shepperd joins us from CNN Center to help us understand why.

General Shepperd?

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Paula, recently Saddam Hussein divided his country into four different military areas controlled by party functionaries and his relatives. The southern area, and al-Nassiriya is basically the headquarters of that southern area, is commanded by Ali Hassan al- Majid, the famous Chemical Ali, if you will, and a cousin of Saddam Hussein's.

This is a headquarters and so it is a strategic point. It's about a third of the way between Basra and Baghdad, indicating the rapid advance of forces in that particular area. So this is militarily significant, but there probably will be a lot of cleanup to be done afterwards, Paula.

ZAHN: And talk about this key crossing point across the Tigris.

SHEPPERD: Yes, actually there are 12 key Bridges across the Tigris River in downtown Baghdad. Now, we have received reports that there were 37 targets actually struck in the complex that we have been talking about on the west bank of the Tigris River and a couple of those bridges leading into that compound were reportedly struck.

Now, we don't know if that information is accurate. We're waiting for the briefing by General Tommy Franks. Perhaps we'll get more details on what was struck. And then I expect them to spend the daylight hours doing bomb damage assessment, to see what they need to go back and strike again.

Paula?

ZAHN: General Shepperd, I'm going to ask you to do something very difficult, but I know you've been watching this picture alongside all of us this morning of Baghdad, downtown Baghdad. Now it seems that this plume of smoke is not as diffuse as it was just a couple of minutes ago. Tell us what you're thinking this could potentially be.

SHEPPERD: I don't know what it is, but I can tell you that it has to do with petroleum, oil and lubricants because of the dark black smoke. Now, there are no refineries in downtown Baghdad. There are storage facilities. There are also underground hiding places, if you will, for many of the things that we've been worried about, weapons of mass destruction, etc.

So I can't tell you by looking at it what it is. But I can tell you this, in addition to the complex on the west bank of the Tigris River that was stuck, there are many other militarily significant targets interspersed in the populated area of downtown Baghdad. These include air defenses and Republican Guard concentrations of troops, headquarters, communications sites, etc.

A lot of the things that were bombed on this western bank of the Tigris you will be bombing empty buildings where the people are not there, but then again underground bunkers and this type of thing. So we can't tell what's burning and exactly until we get briefed by General Franks, I believe.

ZAHN: And General Shepperd, it's interesting that you should say that, because one reporter from London, from one of the London newspapers who was on the ground at the time of yesterday's huge barrage of fire said it was her understanding that a number of these buildings that were hit were not even known to Iraqis.

SHEPPERD: Yes, this complex is a military and civilian complex of the government. Think of this, if you will, as Capitol Hill and the Pentagon spread over several miles in downtown Washington, D.C. with all of our State Department buildings, our military headquarters, defense intelligence agencies, CIA, FBI, that type of thing. Think of it as that type of complex and you can see the enormous difficulty of striking it, bringing down that type of infrastructure. And that's basically what's been going on there in downtown Baghdad, Paula.

ZAHN: General Shepperd, we were initially told that the first stage of the Shock and Awe campaign would last some 24 hours. Do you have reason to believe that would still be the case and at about 1:00 p.m. that might be the end of the first phase of this? Or is the battle plan so flexible we just can't even say that at this hour?

SHEPPERD: You know, we're all guessing, but I suspect that the follow-on plans, I think you're looking at another couple of days of this type of thing, the same type of thing that we saw on the first day. Again, assessment each day, seeing what needs to be restruck and seeing any emerging targets.

The intelligence sources are looking for new, emerging targets. In addition, they're looking for new command and control facilities where people move to communicate and move their forces in the field, Paula.

ZAHN: Once again, we focus our attention now on that cloud of black, that plume of black smoke that continues to rise from the ground there.

General Shepperd, I know you were saying that it's your understanding that there are a number of underground hiding places in Baghdad where Saddam Hussein might be stashing things. Once again, because you say the color of what you're looking at would suggest to you lubricants, some sort of petroleum product?

SHEPPERD: Yes, indeed. That's what gives you black smoke. If buildings are burning it's normally either grayish or whitish smoke. This is definitely fuel. Now, Republican Guard, of which there is a great number in the Baghdad area, they have to have fuel, so perhaps we've found a fuel storage facility and hit it with precision weapons, Paula. I just don't know.

ZAHN: And would there be anything there that Saddam Hussein, that we know would want to sabotage that close into the center of Baghdad?

SHEPPERD: That doesn't make any sense to me at all. I think we've hit a militarily significant target. That's my guess.

ZAHN: General Shepperd, thanks so much.

Once again, the air raid sirens were sounded in Baghdad just about an hour ago, about the time that evening prayers were being called. As soon as we have more information on all of this, we'll bring it to you live.

In the meantime, let's go back to Bill in Kuwait City -- Bill.

HEMMER: Paula, some time very soon we're told we're going to see some sort of parallel movement into Iraq, not just the military, which we're concentrating on right now. But you're going to see a shift toward the humanitarian effort, as well. We're told there could be a massive amount of humanitarian aid flown into Iraq. Already today into Kuwait we're hearing the World Food Program is getting ready to fly in 40 tons of food biscuits. Just a motorcycle behind me on the highway that goes right along our hotel here. Normally it's very busy. Today it's almost deserted. It's been that way for about three days running. That's a rare sound that we've heard here.

Meanwhile, 40 tons of food biscuits, World Food Program flying in here to Kuwait today. The British are saying possibly about 48 hours from now they could start taking some of this food into Iraq and maybe even to that port city of Umm Qasr, something to track.

Forty-eight hours may be optimistic right now, but it's something that on the humanitarian side they're very hopeful can get under way.

Let's get to the White House right now.

Suzanne Malveaux, front lawn, talking about the president and his weekend away at Camp David, certainly not far from what's happening here, with his advisers going with him -- Suzanne, good morning.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

Absolutely, the president really keeping his finger on the pulse of what is happening. He is at Camp David. We are told that he is going to have a meeting with his full war council. That is what they call it now, the war council, with the vice president as well as Secretary Powell, Secretary Rumsfeld, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, the head of the CIA and the chairman of the joint chiefs, among others. This is a place where the president spent much time after September 11, 2001, after the terrorist attacks, as you can see in these photos.

It is really a place where it has completely secure video conferencing. The president can talk to anyone in the world. This is where they're going to be assessing the damage and where to move forward both on the military as well as the political front.

Should also note, as well, Bill, that they're going to be dealing with another issue, these reports coming from the Iraqi information minister of 200 plus civilian casualties, also the report from Barbara Starr about that Tomahawk missile that may have missed its target and landed in southwest Iran.

Now, these are things the administration, of course, realized and anticipates the kind of criticism that may come with the campaign. This is why the administration, somewhat in a preemptive public relations strike of its own, has talked about this, that the president was involved in the war planning and selecting the targets, making sure that they were far from civilian areas, also that the most precision weapons are being used and the fact that Saddam Hussein, they accuse him of using his own people as human shields.

But right now the American people, about two thirds are supporting the president in his war effort. If those numbers on civilian casualties and these type of mishaps, that may change -- Bill.

HEMMER: Suzanne, the White House put out a few pictures yesterday with Condoleezza Rice out at Camp David with the president. At the briefing yesterday, though, Ari Fleischer was peppered with these questions about whether or not President Bush was watching on television the images that no doubt millions of people around the world were when the opening phase of Shock and Awe, as the Pentagon calls it, got under way, this seven minute barrage in Baghdad.

Should it come as much surprise that the president did not take time -- because clearly the impression was left that the president did not stop and watch this on TV?

MALVEAUX: Well, as a matter of fact, Bill, a senior administration official later in the day said that the president did watch some of that on television with his chief of staff, Andy Card, in the study right off the Oval Office there. And the point that Ari Fleischer was making, the spokesperson, is that the president does not get his information from television, that he doesn't watch a lot of TV. That was a rather sensitive subject in the briefing yesterday, as you noticed.

But, yes, the president is aware of what the American people are seeing, those images, those very dramatic images on television. And Ari Fleischer saying the president is very much aware of the impact of the decision to go to war -- Bill.

HEMMER: Suzanne Malveaux, front lawn of the White House, thanks.

Thirty-seven minutes away from Tommy Franks live in Qatar. We'll have it for you here on CNN -- Paula.

ZAHN: Thanks so much, Bill.

Twelve British and American Marines were killed in a helicopter crash in Kuwait yesterday. Among them, Major J. Thomas Aubin.

His father, Thomas Aubin, joins us now by telephone.

Mr. Aubin, obviously this is an extremely difficult time for you and your family and I very much appreciate your joining us this morning.

VOICE OF TOM AUBIN, FATHER OF CAPT. JAY AUBIN: Thank you.

ZAHN: Mr. Aubin, I wanted to start off by reading something one of your local congressmen had to say that I think captures the way a lot of Americans feel about the great service of your son and the others who lost their lives. He said, "These brave young men have given what Abraham Lincoln so eloquently deemed the last full measure of devotion to their country. We will remember their sacrifice and honor their services on our behalf.

Our hearts and prayers go out to their families."

AUBIN: Yes, ma'am.

ZAHN: When did you find out this news, sir?

AUBIN: Yesterday, about 8:30 at night.

VOICE OF CAROL AUBIN, MAJ. JAY AUBIN'S STEPMOTHER: No, the day before.

AUBIN: Yes, I'm mixed up among the days. But it was a great loss. He was a good boy. He really was. He loved flying. He loved aviation. He'd been born and brought up with flying, worked his way through college so he could go back into the Marine Corps. He just loved the Marine Corps. He was dead set against the Marine Corps. He loved it.

ZAHN: And I understand he got his love of flying from you. Is it true that he would join you in a two seater plane at the age of two?

AUBIN: Oh, yes. He loved it. He was in there before two and he loved airplanes. He just would fly with us and we'd loosen up his seatbelt and we would do like roller coasters. And him and his brother would sit there and they'd laugh and they just loved flying, you know. He's going to be missed. The military lost a great man, you know? It's hard to talk about it. And I feel bad for all of the others that's been lost, too, in that crash.

ZAHN: Well, we are so sorry. We have read a lot of what has been written about your son and his great service. Family and friends describe your son as a friendly and genuine man who was always smiling, a man who pursued flying with determination and they said he was passionate about his job. He loved his country. You said he loved the Marines.

AUBIN: Yes.

ZAHN: When did you see this commitment to the Marines and this love of Marines forming?

AUBIN: Just right out when he graduated, he went into the Marine Corps. He started on the S.S. Ranger then he got out of the Marine Corps, went to college, got his master's degree, got an A&P license, a machinist's license, reenlisted back into the Marine Corps. And his wife was, is an ex-Marine. She was in the Marine Corps. He met her on the S.S. Ranger. She was stationed on that and that's how they met.

ZAHN: And I know the two of them have two beautiful children here, and Alicia who's 10 and Nathan seven.

AUBIN: Yes, ma'am.

ZAHN: How are they all doing?

AUBIN: Well, they've had to give her -- she's doing, having a very hard time, like all the rest of us. Yes. She's having a very, very hard time. But I stand behind President Bush 100 percent. I just wished all of the other people would stand behind him and stop all this fighting and arguing and...

CAROL AUBIN: Help those people in Kuwait and Iraq.

ZAHN: Is that Nancy, Mr. Aubin, who's joining us? AUBIN: No.

ZAHN: No?

CAROL AUBIN: This is Jay's step mom, Carol. I'm Jay's step mom.

ZAHN: What would you like to tell us about Captain Jay?

CAROL AUBIN: He was just a great, great person, you know? Anything he did, he was going to give it all he had and then some. He would set a goal, he'd set a really high goal and he would just meet it, you know? He would just concentrate on that one goal. And he wanted to go into the Marines so he would train and, you know, he got in there and got into it and he did the best he could and right at the top all the time, just fight his way to the top, you know?

ZAHN: And Mr. Aubin, I thought what you said earlier was so poignant, about your support for President Bush as this war continues.

AUBIN: Yes.

ZAHN: Is there anything else you'd like to say about that? So much of the focus of this war...

AUBIN: I just...

ZAHN: ... has been so faro on, you know, on the military campaign and not on the human side of this and the loss that your family has endured and that other families in America will endure, as well.

AUBIN: I just wish one thing, I wish President Bush everything we're 100 percent behind him. I wish the protesters would go help the needy, pick up trash beside the road. They don't have to be out there and taking all our cops from doing other things. It's just a great, great loss to us.

ZAHN: Well, we are so, so sorry.

CAROL AUBIN: Yes. I'm pretty much just staying in denial, too, because it's going to be hard in the next week or two, until Jay gets home. So I'm just trying to stay together and, you know, I mean he's all, he'll always be in our hearts, you know? But he had dedicated his life so we didn't get to see him too much. We were hoping after he got out of the service we'd see more of him, because he'd go away for two or three years at a time to a school and, you know, be in Japan or a different country for a couple of years.

AUBIN: We had him here. We had the little airport here. We was hoping he could come here.

CAROL AUBIN: Yes, and help us work on some airplanes, maybe spend some time, you know, between him and Tom, maybe I could get my A&P license.

ZAHN: Well, our prayers are with your family. CAROL AUBIN: Yes. Does anybody have...

ZAHN: I hope it brings you a measure of comfort that America really salutes your son's dignity and his service to his country. Once again, a local congressman describing it, as Abraham Lincoln once said, "the last full measure of devotion to their country."

Again, thanks so much.

Back to Bill in Kuwait City.

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