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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
Strike on Iraq
Aired March 22, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Tonight, U.S. and coalition forces have advanced at least halfway to Baghdad. They have also taken control of a number of key Iraqi cities. Units of the 3rd Infantry Division captured a key bridge over the Euphrates River in the town of Nasiriya. U.S. and British aircraft tonight have complete control of the skies. They are carrying out continuous bombing raids.
The 3rd Infantry's attack on Nasiriya was supported by artillery units equipped with multi-launch rocket systems. The overall commander of coalition troops, General Tommy Franks, today said his forces are using munitions on a scale never before seen in warfare.
Marines fighting near Basra in Southern Iraq today destroyed abandoned Iraq tanks and armored vehicles. They also captured the city's airport after overcoming resistance from Iraqi troops and armored personnel carriers. British troops have now taken over the fight for Basra so the Marines can continue their advance to the north.
General Franks said between 1,000 and 2,000 Iraqi prisoners are being held by coalition forces. General Franks said thousands more have laid down their weapons and simply left the battlefield. The surrenders include an entire Iraqi division near Basra.
New explosions tonight shook Baghdad. Residents prepared for another round of heavy bombing and missile strikes. News agency reports say Iraqi troops have been filling trenches with oil and setting them afire to try to disrupt coalition attacks.
U.S. led forces today captured the Southern Iraqi town of Nasiriya. Marines are also racing across the desert toward Baghdad. Coalition forces have been meeting some resistance particularly around the southern city of Basra, and the Pentagon warns that the situation in Iraq remains extremely dangerous.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Images from the battlefield show the U.S. military is basically having its way with Iraq's poorly equipped and demoralized frontline forces. Even so, at some southern cities, such as Nasiriya and Basra, U.S. forces have encountered Iraqi troops who are fighting and inflicting casualties before giving up. U.S. commanders believe those Iraqi forces may include Republican Guard elements designed to stiffen their will. But, aside from nine oil well fires set in the Ramaylah (ph) oil fields before the ground war began, so far U.S. troops have encountered no nightmare tactics, including no chemical or biological weapons.
GEN. TOMMY FRANKS, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: There will be surprises but we have not yet seem them.
MCINTYRE: The psychological campaign appears to be paying off. This satellite photograph released by the U.S. Central Command, shows what appears to be 700 Iraqi troops lined up in the desert, just as U.S. leaflets instructed them to do if they wanted to surrender.
BRIG. GEN. VINCE BROOKS, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: The leaders from several regular Army divisions surrendered to coalition forces and their units abandoned their equipment and returned to their homes just as the coalition had instructed.
MCINTYRE: More details have been provided on how the war unfolded with U.S. and British Special Forces taking down Iraqi military outposts and seizing key oil terminals where weapons and explosives were found.
This photograph shows an Iraqi ship that was discovered attempting to lay mines in the northern Persian Gulf. While here, a U.S. AC-130 gunship sinks an Iraqi patrol boat with a devastating blast of cannon fire.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Despite the fact that the U.S. military is making good progress in the south, it only has a handful of Special Forces in the north. That means the vital Kirkuk oil fields north of Baghdad are vulnerable, at least for another day or so until the Shock and Awe air campaign neutralizes Iraq's air defenses to the extent that troops can be flown to the north to secure those oil fields and other objectives -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, we know there has been unity, unit communications, as the Pentagon has described it at least in the last 24 hours concerning the possible surrender of Iraqi troops. Is there any further information on those discussions and those contacts?
MCINTYRE: Well, no. The pace of the military campaign, including the bombing and the movement of troops on the ground, indicates that at this point they've got no agreement for any significant surrender by senior Iraqi generals or other officials.
So, those communications are still going on and the Pentagon is convinced that once the outcome is clearly inevitable that perhaps some of those senior leaders will crack.
DOBBS: Any suggestion that we will see a continuation of the heavy bombardment, the selective targeting of Baghdad? MCINTYRE: We've been led to believe that this air campaign, which kicked off yesterday, will essentially continue for three or four days, perhaps not as intense everywhere but they still have a significant number of targets to hit over the next couple of days. And, as I mentioned, one thing they still need to do is completely bring down Iraq's air defenses so they can begin that movement of troops up into the north.
DOBBS: Jamie McIntyre, thank you very much, Senior Pentagon Correspondent.
Wolf Blitzer joins us now from Kuwait City. Wolf, we know the coalition forces are continuing to make good progress on their advance toward Baghdad. Give us the best assessment that you've received about the strength of Iraqi resistance.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: There certainly is Iraqi resistance and it seems to get stronger as the U.S. and British forces move north. They've made significant progress. The commanding general, Tommy Franks, said there are about 150 miles into Iraq right now.
At the Pentagon later in the day they said that they've actually, the U.S. troops have actually crossed the Euphrates River, gone on the other side. They're well on the way to Baghdad, as you point out, about halfway there.
But they're meeting resistance and they anticipate as they get closer to Baghdad, the resistance will stiffen up as Republican Guard, Special Republican Guard units, these elite forces still loyal to Saddam Hussein, fight and probably fight very hard.
Earlier in Umm Qasr, the huge port in the southern part of Iraq, the U.S. and British forces took that relatively quickly. They're moving on Basra, the next largest city, the second largest city of Iraq, about a million and a half people. They have not taken Basra yet, but they're moving there. From there, they'll move up to Nasiriyah and continue up the road towards Baghdad.
There's also some progress, we're told, in the western part of Iraq, having taken those two airfields, strategic air fields, an area used by the Iraqis a dozen years ago to launch Scuds at the Israelis, the Israelis presumably breathing a lot easier tonight than would have normally been the case.
In the northern part of Iraq, we're told, Special Operation forces are also moving there. No clear indication what's going on. We do know, Lou, that extensive U.S. air strikes continue in and around Baghdad, in Mosul, Kirkuk, and in Tikrit, the hometown in Iraq of Saddam Hussein -- Lou.
DOBBS: And Basra just to the north of you, a matter of just about 40 miles in fact, the city surrounded but it still in Iraqi control, the regime's control. What is the latest there?
BLITZER: The latest is they think they're going to go in there. They're going to take it. They're trying to assess not only how the remaining Iraqi military will deal with the U.S. and British forces. They're not anticipating a huge fight, especially now that one Iraqi division, the 51st Division which was in charge of Basra, they basically just gave up.
But they are anticipating some problems with the local population so they want to be very careful. They want to make sure that there are no terrorists out there who could endanger U.S. and British personnel.
DOBBS: And, Wolf, we thank you. Jim Lacey, our colleague from "TIME Magazine" right now working to update us on the breaking story, two tents of the 101st Airborne being struck by terrorists this evening. Do you have anything else more recent than that right now, Wolf?
BLITZER: What we know is what Jim Lacey reported just a little while ago here on CNN. He's one of those embedded journalists from "TIME Magazine" with the 101st at Camp Pennsylvania, Camp New Jersey, here in Kuwait.
Security was thought to be very good at those military bases but apparently within the last half hour or so what he believes, one or two or three terrorists used hand grenades to attack a tent, two tents in fact, at that base. Eight U.S. Army soldiers have been injured, six of them apparently very seriously.
They've been evacuated to local military hospitals, a source of grave concern to the U.S. military officials of course, military personnel wondering how could terrorists penetrate the kind of lines that the U.S. military has at these bases, some concern that perhaps some local contractors, local people could have perhaps penetrated the protective corridor that is supposed to protect the U.S. military personnel at those two bases -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jim reported, Wolf, as you well know, a full company forming up perimeter security for the 101st. He also described, Wolf, those two tents that were struck apparently by hand grenades as being leadership tents. Do we know any more about the state of the command structure with the 101st?
BLITZER: No. He said that there were eight soldiers who were injured, six of them seriously. The 101st obviously is a very large group. That's the airborne division, the famed airborne division based at Fort Campbell, Kentucky.
They've got a key role to play in this operation and they're preparing it at these two bases in Kuwait, Camp New Jersey, and Camp Pennsylvania, but we have no indication who are among those eight soldiers who have been injured.
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much. You might stay there just for a moment. We now have Jim Lacey on the phone from the camp there in Northern Kuwait. Jim Lacey of "TIME Magazine" with the 101st, Jim are you there?
JIM LACEY, TIME MAGAZINE: Yes, I am. DOBBS: What more can you tell us about the injuries in those two tents?
LACEY: Right now they're reporting ten total injuries of which six of them are serious, four not serious. I see at least two people who are slightly wounded still walking around. They're officers and they are pretty much running the defense right now.
DOBBS: And, Jim, any -- you described in your initial report these as being two hand grenades hurled into these two tents, these leadership tents.
LACEY: Right.
DOBBS: Does that appear to be the situation?
LACEY: Since then I have found a U.S. Army major who was sitting outside one of the tents and says he saw the grenade roll by him. Can you hear me, there's an Apache helicopter circling the perimeter now?
DOBBS: We can you hear you, Jim.
LACEY: OK. So, it's almost definite that this was a grenade attack. They still do not know who's responsible. There's a strong perimeter right around the tents right now. I see a Blackhawk helicopter coming in. That might be to remove some of the wounded who are now in the aid station here.
The infantry, there are 2,100 plus infantrymen on this post. They are being formed up and fanning out over the entire compound to see if they can find who is responsible. There are two people being held here.
DOBBS: Two people being held, by that you mean suspects in the attack?
LACEY: I do not know if they are suspects. They are Arabic but they may be contract workers who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. They are not assuming they're suspects and there's still a massive manhunt going on on this post.
DOBBS: One can only imagine, Jim Lacey of "TIME Magazine." Wolf, do you have a question for Jim?
BLITZER: Jim, when you say there are contractors, Arab contractors who work at the base, do you have any notion of how much security, how much background checks they have for these individuals? I know that when I was at Asalia (ph) in Qatar or Prince Sultan in Saudi Arabia, huge air bases, a lot of local employees, contract workers, are there but I'm not sure what kind of background checks they do. Do you have any sense?
LACEY: No, I do not have a good sense of it but with the constant flow of traffic here in terms of busses moving troops in and out and the cooks are all contracted here. Most of the menial tasks are contracted and I can't believe there's been security checked out on all of these people because it's a constant changeover in faces. But there are, you know, they are checked when they come in and come out but I never looked to see if they had -- they were checking for a specific ID or not.
DOBBS: Jim, I just want to let our viewers know, Wolf if I may, that we are hearing more detonations over in Baghdad this evening and we'll continue to...
LACEY: They just found a bag here which they think is a bomb and they're ushering me to the other side of the berm.
DOBBS: Jim Lacey can you hear me?
LACEY: Yes.
DOBBS: Say again because I was just reminding, letting our viewers know that more explosions...
LACEY: They just found an unidentified bag here. They're putting it off to one side. They're moving everyone away from it. There's no word if it's a bomb or not but they're treating it as one.
DOBBS: I just want to say we're talking with Jim Lacey, Wolf Blitzer from Kuwait, and I'm talking to Jim Lacey from New York of course. Jim Lacey, "TIME Magazine" correspondent with the 101st Airborne where ten people have been injured, six of them seriously at the camp in Northern Kuwait as a result of a terrorist attack, apparently two hand grenades.
Jim, tell us more about this bag that has been found that apparently is very suspicious.
LACEY: I'm looking at it. I'm moving away from it. It's a camouflage bag. It just does not look like any piece of military equipment so they've put it off to one side and telling everyone to stay away from it but they're not paying any -- they're not giving it any unusual amount of deference here, so I don't know if they think it's a bomb or if they're just not taking any chances with it.
DOBBS: Well, not to take chances with all that is going on there certainly makes great sense.
Jim, I don't want to, as much as I would like to probe further about the nature of those injuries in those tents and who specifically was injured, I think it probably would be wise for you and I at this point just to remind our viewers that ten people of the 101st Airborne have been injured in a grenade attack, two grenades into two tents, which Jim Lacey did describe as leadership tents of the 101st Airborne in Northern Kuwait.
Jim, if you will, as you get more details and further developments, please let us know. We will join you to report those developments.
LACEY: OK.
DOBBS: Jim Lacey from Northern Kuwait with the 101st, thank you very much.
We are continuing -- we are now hearing gunshots on Jim Lacey's line. Is that line still open? I repeat is that line still open? OK, we do not have the line but the line before it went down there were gunshots again, apparently -- well, we won't say apparently, gunshots heard just as we hung up with Jim Lacey of "TIME Magazine" with the 101st, which has suffered a terrorist attack tonight in Northern Kuwait.
We will, of course, be diligently trying to find out what is going on there. The 101st obviously suffering a very serious terrorist attack in its camp in Northern Kuwait tonight.
I want to turn now to four CNN journalists who arrived safely in Jordan after Iraqi officials expelled them from Baghdad. Correspondent Nic Robertson, whom you have been watching and listening to for days, indeed weeks, among the group that had been reporting from Baghdad and joins us live tonight from Jordan.
Nic first, good to have you safe and nearer home. Your exit from Baghdad into Jordan, tell us about that journey, how it was arranged and how long it took if you would.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, really the journey a very interesting opportunity to get a view outside of the capital of Baghdad now the war is going on and also a real opportunity to report it outside of the confines of normally having to videotape events with Iraqi officials and have them present whenever we talk to people.
So, some remarkable insights I think today. As we were driving out of the city of Baghdad, the team, of course myself, Rym Brahimi my colleague correspondent, our Executive Producer Ingrid Formenak (ph), and our cameraman Brian Pachaty (ph), we traveled out in some GMC vehicles out of the city, marked up with big TV letters on them, giving an indication to anyone who might see us coming that we are a friendly force, if you will.
As we left Baghdad, we could see members of the Ba'ath Party, young and old, armed and out on the streets. They were patrolling the streets at key traffic intersections. They had sandbag bunkers built, sometimes small trenches. Some of the people manning those trenches as young as 16 or 17, armed.
But the interesting thing, Wolf, the main checkpoint as you leave Baghdad, there is really only one guard on each side of the road, very lightly armed. And, as you leave Baghdad, a minimal number of defensive positions around the city, and once you get 50 or 60 miles away from the city, virtually no visible heavy defenses whatsoever.
It really appears to be an indication here that Iraqi officials plan only to defend, at least on the western side, plan only to defend Baghdad from inside Baghdad itself. As we went across the western Iraqi desert towards Jordan, we approached that area known as H2 and H3, where we believe U.S. Special Forces at the very least have secured those airstrips there in the western Iraqi desert.
We didn't see any sign of the U.S. forces. What we did see were a number of Iraqi military vehicles that have been shot up and burned out at the side of the road and what appeared to be a number of indications of military engagements along that road, and looking at the debris it appeared to be the Iraqi military forces coming off the worst there -- Lou.
DOBBS: Nic, look before we turn to the actual -- I'd like to get your characterization of the most recent bombings and missile attacks in Baghdad.
But before doing that, you made reference to something that I think many of our viewers might be curious about and you said there were members of the Ba'ath Party operating basically in intersections and armed. And, throughout Iraq, the Ba'ath Party is, of course, the dominant political party and has a unique structure.
I thought maybe it would be interesting for us to hear how you recognized them as Ba'ath Party members and what their likely role is and how much of a problem you would assess their presence as being for U.S. military and coalition military as they advance toward Baghdad.
ROBERTSON: To the casual observer, Lou, they might look like soldiers, but when you look at their olive green uniforms they don't have any ranks and they don't have anything on their epaulets on their shoulders.
That's the uniform of the Ba'ath Party, and the membership and it can be at local level, local elements of the political party, young and old. They don't look particularly fit and they certainly don't look like a regular fighting force. They certainly don't look like the better equipped Republican Guard members who we occasionally see around some of the presidential palaces.
They are, if you will, a home guard, a home defensive force designed to enforce the curfew, designed to keep only people the government wants or allows to be out on the streets at any given time to keep control of the streets.
They do not appear to be a strong military force that could likely and seriously over any period of time, longer than an hour or so, engage a heavily armed, well trained, and highly mobile United States or British Force in the city of Baghdad.
However, those were the elements we saw on the streets. That's not to say there aren't other Republican Guard or Special Republican Guard units in barracks or at other locations around Baghdad who can be brought into the city and deployed for use in the city. We didn't see any armored vehicles on the streets. Again, that's not an indication they don't exist in Baghdad. They just weren't on display. But this home guard of the Ba'ath Party very much to keep control of the streets, send a message to the people of Iraq and to Baghdad that the Ba'ath party, that the leadership of Iraq still are in control and that their rule of law should be followed at this very critical time -- Lou.
DOBBS: Nic, thank you very much, Nic Robertson reporting from Jordan after being expelled along with Ingrid and their two colleagues. We're delighted that you and Ingrid are safe and your two colleagues in Jordan. I know that you certainly did not want to leave Baghdad but we are delighted that you are safe and we welcome you, as I said, nearer home. Thanks a lot, Nic.
Frank Buckley, along with photographer Greg Canes (ph) is aboard the USS Constellation, one of three aircraft carriers operating in the Persian Gulf. More sorties today flown from the Constellation. Frank joins us now live via videophone -- Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Lou. The air operations do continue here aboard the USS Constellation and, in fact, today some of the sorties flown were flown by members of VFS 2, the bullets. They fly the F-14 Tomcat and this is their commanding officer Andrew Whitson. Commander, first of all, you flew today into the vicinity around Baghdad. Tell us what the scene looked like.
ANDREW WHITSON, VFS 2 SQUADRON CMDR.: Well, Frank, it was -- actually the weather was nice and clear. We were actually a little bit concerned about that. They've had quite a bit of weather coming through in the last day or so but the strike actually went pretty well. We were just striking a military complex just west of Baghdad and overall it was a good strike.
BUCKLEY: Last night some of the men we talked to coming back from their sorties talked about the spectacular fire show that they were watching. Was it a similar scene today or less so? Give us a sense.
WHITSON: It was much less so. We did see a couple of SAMs that came up. They looked like they were unguided. We didn't see any AAA but that doesn't mean it wasn't there.
We were pretty high and fast so most of the AAA is not going to reach us and certainly daytime perhaps the sense is if you don't see it, it's not there, but certainly most of us that have a little experience know that it is going off underneath us. Just, you know, you have to keep maneuvering the airplane assuming that it is there.
BUCKLEY: You're a Gulf War veteran, 1991 Desert Storm. You were flying a Tomcat then more at an air-to-air capacity. Now you're in strike role. Tell us about the difference that you see in flying both different roles and what the difference is this time in combat.
WHITSON: Well, I think in Desert Storm our role as an air-to-air fighter primarily we were doing MiG sweeps. We were roughly, you know, certainly several minutes out in front of the strike package. They obviously didn't have a lot of airborne fighters but certainly more so than we've seen this time.
Most of the time, at least for the flights that I was on in Desert Storm, we would get radar contacts but generally once you got within the 30 or 40 miles they would dive for the deck and run away.
This time obviously our focus is more on a strike role and that's what we've primarily trained to for this kind of environment since we know that the Iraqis generally are not going to be doing a lot of flying as what we've seen throughout the course of OSW. So, we feel fairly comfortable with what we've -- the tactics that we've trained to up to this point and we do carry air-to-air ammunition and missiles.
BUCKLEY: We haven't heard of any air-to-air engagements and you were just telling us that they do have a robust air force, that the Iraqi forces do have a robust air force. So, what do you attribute the fact that there hasn't been an air-to-air engagement?
WHITSON: Well, I would say probably they are smart enough to know that if they do get airborne it's probably not going to be for long, so we've got quite a few airplanes out there and, you know, the strike airplanes are air-to-air capable, self escort strike is what we call it but we've also got quite a bit of defense encounter air assets, F-15 Eagles and F-16s. So, we've got more than enough capability airborne to take care of anything that does get airborne from their airfields.
BUCKLEY: If I may intrude on a personal level and ask you in releasing your munitions you know what they're going to be doing, destroying buildings, potentially killing people. On a personal level, tell me how you deal with that if you would.
WHITSON: Well, that's a tough question. That's actually one of the things that I sat down with my guys before this thing started and told each of them that after it starts you'll be changed forever because, you know, this is what we train to our entire lives but once you've actually pressed the pickle (ph) button and they are real bombs that are falling away and real lives are being impacted, you know, that's going to change you.
It affects everybody different ways. I think the training that we received all the way up to this point prepares us mentally to be able to put aside our feelings and be able to carry out the task at hand and get the job done.
I think there will be plenty of time later for reflection and, you know, deciding about how it really did affect you, but right now, you know, that's really something we don't think about too much. We're just doing what we're trained to do.
BUCKLEY: Commander Andrew Whitson, thanks very much for being candid with us and for spending so much time with us.
WHITSON: You're welcome. Thanks, Frank.
BUCKLEY: Lou, the view of one skipper here aboard the USS Constellation, someone who just flew in to Iraq today -- Lou.
DOBBS: Frank, thank you very much, Frank Buckley from the USS Constellation.
Well, coalition aircraft are flying hundreds of sorties in the strike against Iraq. Military sources say virtually all U.S. Air Force fighters and bombers in the region have been used in those strikes. Some of the aircraft come from an air base near Iraq where Gary Tuchman and photographer Denira Loritec (ph) are stationed.
Gary joins us now with the very latest -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the coalition against Iraq is using 30 different air bases in 12 different countries in this theater and we're at one of them right now. This is the largest attack and fighter wing out of all of them, very busy place behind us, some of the A-10 Thunderbolt attack planes. You can see them. They're also called the warthogs, so named because they're not a particularly attractive plane but very solid and do the job very well.
All night long these planes have been going out on the tarmac, taking off, along with the F-16s that are out here. The F-16s are fighter planes that drop their bombs and missiles on targets. They had the most sorties in 1991. So, it's the F-16s and the A-10s do a lot of the work here.
In addition, at this base, which is just near the Iraq border but we can't tell you the exact location because of Pentagon rules for embedded journalists, there are also Marine aircraft, including F-18 Hornets and Harrier jets. But we've seen a steady stream of airplanes only not quite as busy as last night. But here it is right now in this region 2:32 in the morning and this is a very crowded airfield.
Here is the latest news we have heard from highly placed Air Force officials, they are telling us that between the beginning of this campaign and tomorrow at one o'clock Eastern time, a total of 3,500 aircraft sorties. There were 2,000 in the first 24 hours, 3,500 after 48 hours, so not quite as many in the second 24 hours but still very busy.
We are told that these aircraft are pounding on Republican Guard forces in Iraq. We're also told that there's a concentration this evening in Western Iraq, as well as Baghdad and the other cities that were hit in the first night.
What's notable for us is the amount of security here at this base. We have been listening with you, Lou, the story about what's happened at the Army base in Northern Kuwait. Security here is very elaborate, as it is at many bases. We here are embedded journalists. We have proper credentials but we can barely walk anywhere without being checked several times.
There's also a lot of tension here. Earlier in the evening, a few hours ago, we had another siren go off, a missile warning. People here get very tense when that happens. It's now happened 11 or 12 times. They get their gas masks ready. They have their chemical suits on but that's a way of life over the last couple of days at the bases in the Persian Gulf region -- Lou, back to you.
DOBBS: Gary Tuchman reporting from a U.S. Air Force base near the Iraqi border.
We have just received word from Central Command in Qatar that indeed the 101st has suffered ten men, ten people injured in the terrorist attack at their camp in Northern Kuwait.
Jim Lacey of "TIME Magazine" reporting the story, the grenade attack of two grenades striking two tents, ten people injured. Jim Lacey reporting that six of them seriously and we will continue to update you on this story.
What some thought was gunfire as we were hanging up with Jim Lacey as he was reporting the story coming from Kuwait was gunfire emanating from Baghdad, apparently antiaircraft fire.
Well, last October we were honored and pleased to have the opportunity to spend some time with the commander and the crew of the warship, the USS Higgins. The guided missile destroyer was just days from deployment to the Persian Gulf and its commander, Mike Gilday (ph), told us then his crew was prepared, well prepared for battle.
And, over the past few days we have, of course, extended our best wishes to the crew and the commander and the executive officer (unintelligible) for their safety.
And the crew has sent us here some video and a photograph of their work in the Shock and Awe campaign against Iraq. And from these pictures, we can see that indeed as the captain said, the crew of the USS Higgins indeed ready. We send our very best to our friends on the Higgins and we continue to wish them Godspeed.
Coming up next we'll have the latest developments from CNN Center.
Also coming up, U.S. Marines under fire while destroying enemy tanks. Martin Savidge is with them and he will have the report.
The Pentagon says victory in Iraq may not depend on capturing or killing Saddam Hussein. Middle East expert Ken Pollack, CNN Analyst is our guest.
Demonstrations for and against this war carried out around the country, around the world today. We'll have that story and we'll tell you a little bit about who's behind the demonstrations. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Let's go now to Ben Wedeman in Kurdish-controlled Northern Iraq. Ben has just reported that he has heard bombing tonight in the city of Mosul and he joins us now live by phone -- Ben. BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Lou. Throughout the evening we've been hearing fairly regular bombs falling on the city of Mosul. We're about 28 miles to the east of that city, the largest city in Northern Iraq. Not only are they hitting targets in and around Mosul but also to the north as well as the south. It's been fairly regular. We've heard aircraft flying overhead.
Now, we've seen -- we've heard from Kurdish intelligence sources who have people on the ground inside Mosul that in the last 24 hours some of the targets that have been hit in Mosul include a palace belonging to Saddam Hussein, a major military barracks, and the headquarters of military intelligence in that city -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ben, thank you very much, Ben Wedeman reporting from Northern Iraq, and indeed the pictures you're looking at in the night scope, that night vision, it looks a great deal like Baghdad but it was indeed Mosul.
As we reported, coalition forces have now advanced halfway at least toward Baghdad. For more on that advance now we're going to Miles O'Brien at CNN Center and he's with CNN military analysts General Wesley Clark and General David Grange -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: An illustrious panel indeed, Lou. Thanks very much. We're going to talk about that advance toward Baghdad, as you say about halfway there, and we're going to talk a little bit about what they've been doing along the way.
Let's check in with our generals standing in front of the map table, David Grange, Wesley Clark, both of them retired generals in the United States Army. Generals, first of all, let's take a look at a big, wide picture of the region and I'll show you exactly how far they've gotten if we can put that picture up there. From Kuwait to -- the border of Kuwait to where they are is approximately there, that blue arrow.
First of all, General Clark, is that expected progress given the terrain as you know it?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I'd say that's very good progress, Miles. We didn't expect any significant Iraqi opposition on the western move there for the 3rd Infantry Division. They hit the security zone, a couple of outposts. They hit their first resistance apparently around the town of Nasiriya and that's pretty much what was anticipated.
I think as far as we can determine from all reports, the movement was done well. The unit is in full command and the battle action they had there brought in all the principles and all the correct doctrinal practices of combined arms, using the artillery, the helicopters, and the air.
O'BRIEN: All right, now as you've been talking I zoomed in on Umm Qasr, the port, and ultimately I'm moving into Basra. Now, Basra is a city that is not technically under the control of U.S. forces right now. What is under the control of U.S. forces if the Basra Airport, which I'm going to take you to right now.
General Grange why that decision? Why not secure that town? Why just grab the airfield and run?
GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, the airfield is a key piece of terrain. We can use that for follow on operations. You can refuel helicopters at that location. The town has about 1.2 million people and you remember what they said at a Pentagon briefing today, this is an effects based operation.
So, in other words, if you can get the effects you want without going into a city and engaging people house-to-house, you still get the effect let's say of people surrendering, that's better. Why not go that way?
O'BRIEN: All right, let's go up toward Nasiriya. Nasiriya is an important spot because there is a bridge near there across the Euphrates River. At some point they had to cross the Euphrates River. The Pentagon has confirmed that now. We don't know that they used this bridge, certainly relatively logical to think that is the case. The terrain changes after that point.
General Clark, will things get slower now that they're not in quite the open desert we've been seeing as we move to that point at 150 miles from here?
CLARK: Well, they may get slower in terms of the movement of the individual vehicles. It depends really on the division commander's plan for the operation. If he wants to push up the tempo of the operation, he can.
What's really going to slow it down is less the terrain than the degree of enemy resistance, and I think we're going to continue the kind of advance that we've seen before. We're going to be probing on the ground.
We're going to be looking for the enemy but when we find the enemy we're not necessarily going to do a tank frontal assault and overrun him. We're going to use artillery and air against him.
O'BRIEN: I'm looking at the area at that 150-mile point and it doesn't look like that clean, baby powder talcum desert that we saw from so many of those images from our embedded journalists.
General Grange, what are the concerns as they get into this part of the country?
GRANGE: Well, take what General Clark said about the enemy resistance. If the enemy resistance is tied into some of the restricted terrain that was apparent on the map that you just showed, canals, the lines of communication, in other words the road network moving north, a few more built up areas you'll start encountering.
You're not going to have the formation that you're looking at right now on the screen. It's not going to be an armored unit with nice dispersals spread out. You're going to start getting choke points, and when you get choke points you slow down and that's when you're vulnerable to enemy fires and also just bringing the forces in tight against terrain features.
O'BRIEN: Choke points are something to be concerned about when you're up against an adversary that potentially has chemical weapons. General Clark, how big a concern is that as we look at that approach here?
We're going into the Saddam International Airport and the outskirts of Baghdad and then ultimately in. As these forces reach the ramparts of Baghdad, they slow down. That makes it much more tempting target for the use of chemical weapons, does it not?
CLARK: That's exactly right, Miles. There were two theories about the possible use of chemical weapons. The first theory was that he will use them on the American troops in the staging areas in Kuwait or that he would use them after that as we bunched up our forces near Baghdad. That's still a possibility.
O'BRIEN: What do you think, General Grange, do you agree?
GRANGE: Well, the same thing. Their doctrine calls for using chemical weapons where it gives an advantage to slow down an advance, and when you can do that you don't give your enemies an option of going an alternate route. So, if it's only a few choices that's where you'd want to use your chemical weapons.
O'BRIEN: All right, before you gentlemen get away, I've got to ask you about this incident we've just been reporting about, members of the 101st Airborne camped out in Kuwait and apparently grenade blasts there.
Just a word or two from you about securing these reach echelon bases, General Clark do you want to go first?
CLARK: Well, it is doctrine where we secure these bases. We have in this base I think a full infantry company there during the security mission. I'm sure there's checkpoints where all the civilian workers who come in are to some degree searched. They're cleared.
We probably have photograph ID cards but we probably don't have full background checks and, of course, given the transitory nature of that operation it's impossible to know everything about everybody who's in that camp. So, this is the kind of instance we've been concerned about and it happened.
O'BRIEN: General Grange, almost unavoidable because at a certain point you have to make use of locals in order to do what the army does, right?
GRANGE: Well, here's what -- well, the bases will be secure. A lot of discussion today when you bypass enemy forces that are not -- do not become prisoners of war, when you bypass built-up areas. Who secures these roads? Who secures this rear area? And, actually forces are assigned to do that but you have to take a little bit of risk. You can't secure every square foot of ground all the way up to Baghdad, so you have to use mobility, use air and ground security forces to support you in that regard and you got to keep moving.
O'BRIEN: Can that come to bite you on the back fender?
GRANGE: It can. I mean again it's a risk that you take but there are assigned forces to cover the rear areas as you move forward.
O'BRIEN: General Clark.
CLARK: That's exactly right. It is a matter of sort of where do you economize on your forces. But in the case of this incident in Kuwait, this is an area we knew was a sensitive area.
It is doctrinal that we would have it secured but the question is how much can you secure it with? How much of your force can you pull offline and put back in a rear area for security? And, you know, we'll do a complete after action review on this and if we have to change the procedures, we will.
O'BRIEN: Let's say airport screening for these camps. I mean that doesn't sound like a practical thing, does it General Grange or General Clark go ahead?
CLARK: It isn't a practical thing and so you make compromises, but now that we know what the risks are as unfortunately we've learned in this case, obviously the United States Army will have to do better.
O'BRIEN: General Grange, anything they should do to look at security here?
GRANGE: Well, you could bet they'll look at security and they'll take that into consideration. I just can't imagine this unit not having good security, so we'll find out. We'll give them a chance to see what happened here and then they'll take the appropriate actions.
O'BRIEN: David Grange, Wesley Clark, both of them retired generals of the United States Army, thanks both for being with us and we appreciate the insights -- Lou.
DOBBS: Miles, thanks very much, Miles O'Brien.
President Bush praised our troops fighting in Iraq today, saying they are doing their jobs with skill and bravery. The president also promised the United States will achieve a decisive victory. The president is at Camp David, Maryland, where he met this morning with his war council, White House Correspondent Dana Bash reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A heavy police presence controlled antiwar protesters, now a permanent fixture outside the White House gates, but the commander-in-chief was not home to hear them. As his father did during the 1991 Gulf War, this President Bush is spending the first weekend of war at Camp David, a U.S. Marine facility equipped with the same technology of the White House.
Joining him there his entire war council including Vice President Dick Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They met for 90 minutes going over the latest reports from the war front. Concerned about perception the war may be wrapped up quickly the president used his weekly radio address to brace the country it could take a while.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A campaign on harsh terrain in a vast country could be longer and more difficult than some had predicted and helping Iraqis achieve a united, stable, and free country will require our sustained commitment.
BASH: The president signed off on two major decisions last week, first ordering the broad battle plans, then making the dramatic call to accelerate the campaign and go after top Iraqi leaders. But since then, White House aides say Mr. Bush is leaving the hour-to-hour direction of the war to his generals.
FRANKS: Our troops are performing as we would expect, magnificently, and indeed the outcome is not in doubt.
BASH: Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, who denounced Mr. Bush just last week over his "failed diplomacy on Iraq," used the Democratic radio address to voice support for the troops and for the president.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: Today, a quarter of a million Americans are in the Persian Gulf risking their lives to disarm Saddam Hussein. Our nation is united in gratitude and respect for them and in support for our commander-in-chief.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: The president was also in touch with his top ally in this effort, British Prime Minister Tony Blair. The White House says the two men spoke this morning for about 30 minutes discussing the progress of the war and also the large scale humanitarian effort that awaits them -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Dana Bash from the White House.
More now on frontline action, troops with the 1st Battalion 7th Marines are on the move again tonight. They came under fire outside the Iraqi city of Basra earlier today after they stopped to destroy Iraqi armor, that armor abandoned by the Iraqis. Martin Savidge reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Let me tell you what is going on. Those are secondary blasts coming. This is the demolition of the tanks, G-55 tanks along the line here. What they're doing is hurriedly setting charges. They're using both C-4 and other explosive devices, as well as the ammunition that's onboard the tank itself.
What they've done is they've blown it up essentially. Now you're hearing the secondary explosions that would be coming from the rounds inside. They want to make sure they don't leave anything behind that could be used by say follow-on soldiers, Iraqi soldiers that might be in hiding right now. The moment they find armor, the moment they find any tanks, they're blowing it up and that's exactly what is taking place in the background here.
Yes, that was a (unintelligible) missile fired in the general area where you saw that tank before that was being blown up. Obviously they're seeing stuff down there they're not too happy about, not taking any chances. The (unintelligible) missile is a very heavy weapon.
They throw the tube off the top. They'll get ready to reload again. They'll try to move positions too. We're not exactly sure what they're seeing up there at this point. I mean obviously we're still trying to keep our heads up around ourselves.
At the same time, the demolition crews are preparing the other tanks and we'll try to bring that to you. They seem to be concerned about obviously the village itself, not that there is obvious reason to be suspect. It's just that that's an area of population. You keep an eye on that.
You want to make sure that any Iraqi soldiers, anyone who might want to do the U.S. military harm is not using the village as shelter, as cover, a place where they can easily melt way into. So, that's their concern there.
It's getting hot. Let's go. That looks like the armored personnel carrier. We're going to keep moving back because these also have ammunition inside of them. There goes your tank down the end and the secondary explosions (unintelligible). You're all right, Gerard, keep coming back. Let's pull back.
So, the concern obviously that RPG came from the village and now who fired it and do they have another one obviously, which is why we're not going to linger too much longer but there are more tanks to go so if you miss that one, they'll be another one soon enough.
It's just Saddam's hardware being taken apart piece by piece and that is something the U.S. military wants to do and did extensively after the Gulf War.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Martin Savidge reporting.
Coalition forces continue to advance tonight on Baghdad. They have met resistance. General Tommy Franks said there are still difficulties that lie ahead certainly, but the general also said that the capture or death of Saddam Hussein is becoming almost irrelevant to the success of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Here now to assess all of this is Ken Pollack, CNN Analyst, one of the world's foremost experts on Iraq's military capability, good to have you here Ken.
KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Nice to be here, Lou, thanks.
DOBBS: Let's start with your assessment of what is going on. We've had a lot of discussion about unit-to-unit contact, discussions about general surrender. What do you make of it?
POLLACK: Well, I think that so far the war is proceeding according to U.S. intelligence expectations regarding how the Iraqis would fight. Going into it, the predictions from U.S. intelligence were that the regular army really would not put up much of a fight, that you'd have scattered units that would be willing to stand and put up a bit of a fight, just as you saw the 3rd and the 7th Cavalry in front of the 3rd Infantry Division have a bit of a fight before they got to Nasiriya.
But, that large elements of the regular army would mostly go home or even be willing to surrender en masse and we're seeing that as well. The 51st Mechanized Division being a case there. So, it's really going so far according to the estimates of the U.S. intelligence and that's obviously somewhat comforting I think to the military officers because the estimates of U.S. intelligence were pretty favorable.
DOBBS: The 11th Infantry Division obviously giving ground in Nasiriya but Basra still not under control of U.S. and coalition forces. What do you make of that? How big of a problem is that for General Franks?
POLLACK: Basra should not be an enormous problem for General Franks. What you can see is that we're probably going to be able to bypass it. The two generals made the good point before that we may have to leave some forces behind to mask the city, to make sure that anyone who was left in the city doesn't come out and give our supply lines a hard time, doesn't try to interrupt the logistical flow that will be going up to the forward Marine units.
Basra is a very big city and we'd really prefer, the U.S. military would really prefer not to have to deploy into the city because if you do, you could have it swallow up large numbers of our forces. We'd much prefer to keep those moving.
DOBBS: Right. Ken...
POLLACK: But there are...I'm sorry.
DOBBS: Let me -- we're just out of time. Let me ask you this for your best quick judgment if I may. I apologize. Does it look to you as if there is significant progress toward general surrender here?
POLLACK: I don't think we should go that far just yet. We haven't even touched the Republican Guard and what we saw in the Gulf War is the Republican Guard has much higher morale, much better disciplined.
DOBBS: Ken Pollack, as always, thanks for being here.
POLLACK: Thank you.
DOBBS: And to underline what Ken said, General Franks today saying a lot of tough days ahead.
Tens of thousands of Americans in support of and opposed to the strike against Iraq took part today in demonstrations around the country, one of the largest here in New York City, Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In New York, tens of thousands clogged Broadway for a two-mile antiwar march. Protesters took aim at the president, also accused the news media of a pro war bias.
The march organized by the group United for Peace and Justice, a coalition that includes Greenpeace, the Socialist Party, and some labor groups. At one point, police chased down marchers who broke outside the established route.
More skirmishes with police as the march came to an end in the narrow streets of Greenwich Village. Unofficial police estimates put the New York crowd at 200,000 including one brave woman marching in support of the president with a police escort.
In San Francisco where civil disobedience has been rampant Saturday's protest relatively uneventful. On Thursday and Friday, scattered protests led by the group International Answer resulted in more than 2,000 arrests.
It was Day 3 of protests as well in Chicago, where police in riot gear separated about 500 people protesting the war from about 800 rallying in support of the U.S. military strike; another rally in support of the troops 400 people, mainly military families, in Fort Campbell, Kentucky, home of the 101st Airborne.
Outside the United States, huge antiwar rallies, 15,000 in Bangladesh, large crowds as well in Bahrain and in Gaza. Thousands jammed streets in London, thousands as well marching against the war in New Zealand.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: Here in New York, Lou, these protesters now have officially overstayed their welcome. Their permit to use the park behind me expired at 3:30, now going on 7:00 in New York.
Police here being extremely patient, several officers telling me the last thing they want to do is arrest thousands of these demonstrators, sort of what happened in San Francisco. They do not want to do that. New York Police very patient during crowd control, their patience may be running thin though.
They have arrested 47 people, including the former head of the ACLU, Norm Siegel. Forty-seven arrests so far, and 11 police officers have suffered minor injuries. None of them, we're told, were serious. One was hit in the head with a rock. A couple others were pepper- sprayed by demonstrators.
All of that said, however, police here seem to have things well at hand, and they consider this to be a fairly peaceful demonstration, Lou.
DOBBS: Very good. Peter Viles from New York.
Our coverage of the strike on Iraq continues now with Aaron Brown.
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