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CNN Live At Daybreak

Prisoners of War

Aired March 24, 2003 - 06:40   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I described the explosions in Baghdad I heard a short time ago.
In Baghdad by way of telephone from the Red Cross is Roland Huguemin Benjamin.

Sir, we have you on the air right now to talk about these prisoners of war and the photography that is quite gruesome, for lack of a better word, that we have witnessed over the past 24 hours. Before we talk about that, can you describe for us what you're seeing or hearing there in Baghdad?

ROLAND HUGUEMIN BENJAMIN, RED CROSS: Well there has been a cloud (ph) of explosions during the morning and even now in the early afternoon in Baghdad during daytime.

HEMMER: OK, can you give a number? Some say six, is it more than that?

BENJAMIN: Well now I hear explosions in the distance. Thuds (ph) of explosions that I cannot identify from where I am located now, but it has been ongoing during the daytime today.

HEMMER: All right. Sir, now the issue of prisoners of war. We have seen the tape, we know there are some taken on the Iraqi side. Will you get an opportunity to visit with these POWs and assess their condition and their treatment?

BENJAMIN: Well of course this is the basic mandate of the ICRC under the International Humanitarian Law. Prisoners have a right to have access to visits by the Red Cross, definitely. They must be treated humanely and they have the rights to send information about the present as prisoners of war to their relatives. And we are acting upon that mandate right now in favor of all the soldiers who are no longer sharing in the hostilities from whichever side they may be. They are to be considered as a status of prisoners of war from the minute they stop sharing in the hostilities and are no longer in a -- in a position to defend themselves.

HEMMER: Yes, have you had contact, though, with Iraqi officials and have they given assurances that you will be able to meet with these POWs?

BENJAMIN: ICRC is currently engaged of -- in the process of reaching to the prisoners of war, definitely. To us it is a basic requirement and it has been reminded to all the boterin (ph) parties right from the onset of the conflict that we were present in Iraq and willing to abide by this mandate of the International Humanitarian Law.

HEMMER: Yes, how long before that meeting takes place?

BENJAMIN: That is something that I really cannot judge from the point of view that we are now. Definitely this is something that can -- that should be done at the earliest possible time seen from the point of view of humanity. A prisoner of war must be treated humanely and must be given access to the possibility of communicating with his family via Red Cross messages.

HEMMER: Yes, but in the past 24 hours, have you made the contacts that you need to make? Have you been given the satisfactory answers...

BENJAMIN: Yes.

HEMMER: ... at this point that you need to hear?

BENJAMIN: The contacts are ongoing right now in the minutes that I'm speaking to you, definitely.

HEMMER: All right. Do you know if these Americans, are they being held in Baghdad now or are they being held in Basra in the southeastern part of Iraq?

BENJAMIN: That's something I cannot comment on at the time of speaking now.

HEMMER: Yes. And if we go back to the days of Kosovo when a couple of Americans turned missing when they crossed the wrong way in the wrong road and crossed over into Kosovo from Macedonia, it was several weeks. There was a lot of contact on the international scene with the authorities in Belgrade to obtain their release. At what point do you know as to whether or not any sort of conversation like this can ever take place?

BENJAMIN: Well the request in the name of international law is a permanent one on any authorities that happens to be detaining prisoners of war that they do have the responsibility under the UNIVAC Convention to present them to the International Red Cross delegates. Our teams are prepared for that. We have the regular capture cards available and we are willing to perform those visits as soon as possible. And we definitely hope that this will be made possible by all sides at the earliest possible timing.

HEMMER: Well the Americans are already saying the videotape shown on Al Jazeera, the Arab network, already is a violation of the Geneva Convention. Who enforces this and when does someone take action against that?

BENJAMIN: Well a time of war we are acting on the mandate of International Humanitarian Law. Law is only as strong as it is made by people who are in a position to respect it. We are not in a -- we have the moral force of law with us and that's all. We hope that all the parties will abide by the engagement as signatory -- sorry, signatory states to the Geneva Convention and respect them. HEMMER: Yes, but there's no guarantee, there's no assurance that that could be the case, right?

BENJAMIN: Well in the onset of any conflict, ICRC makes a formal presentation to all the parties involved and remind them of the duties under international conventions. This has happened last week with all the parties involved, including, of course, Baghdad. And we were given the reassurances that international law principles would be respected by all parties.

HEMMER: So at this point it remains to be seen as to whether or not that's carried out.

On the same topic, from a different perspective though, CNN, other networks around the world, have also been showing pictures of Iraqi POWs being marched and led through certain parts of Southern Iraq. Is that a violation of the Geneva Convention or is it only a violation when it comes from a state, in this case, Iraq or the U.S. and Britain?

BENJAMIN: Well Geneva Conventions were put down in 1949 at a time when there were no international news networks operating like the current ones. The principle in Geneva Convention is that prisoners of war should not be subjected to public curiosity. It was the idea to avoid having confrontation between prisoners and maybe a hostile crowd of people belonging to the opposite nation. That was a principle that was related to in 1949.

Now that we are in the modern age of telecommunication, the fact that pictures should be taken at close range and broadcast worldwide is taken as an analogy of the fact that the prisoners should not be exposed to public curiosity.

HEMMER: So then are we in violation as a news network or is this still a gray area? I'm trying to get a better definition of it.

BENJAMIN: Yes, that's, I think, to be appreciated by lawyers and international juries who would be able to by analogy with the spirit of the text of Geneva Convention in '49 that the people should not be exposed to curiosity, meaning to avoid hostility being expressed against the prisoners. So the fact that they have been filmed and shown worldwide is at least not respecting the integrity of the privacy because these people have not been...

HEMMER: OK, thank you.

BENJAMIN: ... given the choice of having their faces shown worldwide.

HEMMER: I appreciate the clarification. From the Red Cross in Baghdad, Roland Huguemin Benjamin, sir, thank you. And again, take care. Be safe, again, with the explosions that you're hearing and experiencing now in Baghdad.

Before we go back to Atlanta, I think it was very important to listen to the words of Geoffrey Hoon, Anderson and Carol, when he talks about these pockets of resistance. Again, they're describing this as a relatively small number of what they say are desperate men. Clearly this has been the story over the past 48 hours, but he's urging patience right now in order to eventually take care of these pockets in the small towns in Southern Iraq.

Listen, we should hear more of Central Command and we'll (ph) brief in about two hours and certainly we'll have it live for you here on CNN then.

Back to Anderson and Carol now at the CNN Center.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Certainly so. Bill Hemmer reporting live from Kuwait.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 24, 2003 - 06:40   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I described the explosions in Baghdad I heard a short time ago.
In Baghdad by way of telephone from the Red Cross is Roland Huguemin Benjamin.

Sir, we have you on the air right now to talk about these prisoners of war and the photography that is quite gruesome, for lack of a better word, that we have witnessed over the past 24 hours. Before we talk about that, can you describe for us what you're seeing or hearing there in Baghdad?

ROLAND HUGUEMIN BENJAMIN, RED CROSS: Well there has been a cloud (ph) of explosions during the morning and even now in the early afternoon in Baghdad during daytime.

HEMMER: OK, can you give a number? Some say six, is it more than that?

BENJAMIN: Well now I hear explosions in the distance. Thuds (ph) of explosions that I cannot identify from where I am located now, but it has been ongoing during the daytime today.

HEMMER: All right. Sir, now the issue of prisoners of war. We have seen the tape, we know there are some taken on the Iraqi side. Will you get an opportunity to visit with these POWs and assess their condition and their treatment?

BENJAMIN: Well of course this is the basic mandate of the ICRC under the International Humanitarian Law. Prisoners have a right to have access to visits by the Red Cross, definitely. They must be treated humanely and they have the rights to send information about the present as prisoners of war to their relatives. And we are acting upon that mandate right now in favor of all the soldiers who are no longer sharing in the hostilities from whichever side they may be. They are to be considered as a status of prisoners of war from the minute they stop sharing in the hostilities and are no longer in a -- in a position to defend themselves.

HEMMER: Yes, have you had contact, though, with Iraqi officials and have they given assurances that you will be able to meet with these POWs?

BENJAMIN: ICRC is currently engaged of -- in the process of reaching to the prisoners of war, definitely. To us it is a basic requirement and it has been reminded to all the boterin (ph) parties right from the onset of the conflict that we were present in Iraq and willing to abide by this mandate of the International Humanitarian Law.

HEMMER: Yes, how long before that meeting takes place?

BENJAMIN: That is something that I really cannot judge from the point of view that we are now. Definitely this is something that can -- that should be done at the earliest possible time seen from the point of view of humanity. A prisoner of war must be treated humanely and must be given access to the possibility of communicating with his family via Red Cross messages.

HEMMER: Yes, but in the past 24 hours, have you made the contacts that you need to make? Have you been given the satisfactory answers...

BENJAMIN: Yes.

HEMMER: ... at this point that you need to hear?

BENJAMIN: The contacts are ongoing right now in the minutes that I'm speaking to you, definitely.

HEMMER: All right. Do you know if these Americans, are they being held in Baghdad now or are they being held in Basra in the southeastern part of Iraq?

BENJAMIN: That's something I cannot comment on at the time of speaking now.

HEMMER: Yes. And if we go back to the days of Kosovo when a couple of Americans turned missing when they crossed the wrong way in the wrong road and crossed over into Kosovo from Macedonia, it was several weeks. There was a lot of contact on the international scene with the authorities in Belgrade to obtain their release. At what point do you know as to whether or not any sort of conversation like this can ever take place?

BENJAMIN: Well the request in the name of international law is a permanent one on any authorities that happens to be detaining prisoners of war that they do have the responsibility under the UNIVAC Convention to present them to the International Red Cross delegates. Our teams are prepared for that. We have the regular capture cards available and we are willing to perform those visits as soon as possible. And we definitely hope that this will be made possible by all sides at the earliest possible timing.

HEMMER: Well the Americans are already saying the videotape shown on Al Jazeera, the Arab network, already is a violation of the Geneva Convention. Who enforces this and when does someone take action against that?

BENJAMIN: Well a time of war we are acting on the mandate of International Humanitarian Law. Law is only as strong as it is made by people who are in a position to respect it. We are not in a -- we have the moral force of law with us and that's all. We hope that all the parties will abide by the engagement as signatory -- sorry, signatory states to the Geneva Convention and respect them. HEMMER: Yes, but there's no guarantee, there's no assurance that that could be the case, right?

BENJAMIN: Well in the onset of any conflict, ICRC makes a formal presentation to all the parties involved and remind them of the duties under international conventions. This has happened last week with all the parties involved, including, of course, Baghdad. And we were given the reassurances that international law principles would be respected by all parties.

HEMMER: So at this point it remains to be seen as to whether or not that's carried out.

On the same topic, from a different perspective though, CNN, other networks around the world, have also been showing pictures of Iraqi POWs being marched and led through certain parts of Southern Iraq. Is that a violation of the Geneva Convention or is it only a violation when it comes from a state, in this case, Iraq or the U.S. and Britain?

BENJAMIN: Well Geneva Conventions were put down in 1949 at a time when there were no international news networks operating like the current ones. The principle in Geneva Convention is that prisoners of war should not be subjected to public curiosity. It was the idea to avoid having confrontation between prisoners and maybe a hostile crowd of people belonging to the opposite nation. That was a principle that was related to in 1949.

Now that we are in the modern age of telecommunication, the fact that pictures should be taken at close range and broadcast worldwide is taken as an analogy of the fact that the prisoners should not be exposed to public curiosity.

HEMMER: So then are we in violation as a news network or is this still a gray area? I'm trying to get a better definition of it.

BENJAMIN: Yes, that's, I think, to be appreciated by lawyers and international juries who would be able to by analogy with the spirit of the text of Geneva Convention in '49 that the people should not be exposed to curiosity, meaning to avoid hostility being expressed against the prisoners. So the fact that they have been filmed and shown worldwide is at least not respecting the integrity of the privacy because these people have not been...

HEMMER: OK, thank you.

BENJAMIN: ... given the choice of having their faces shown worldwide.

HEMMER: I appreciate the clarification. From the Red Cross in Baghdad, Roland Huguemin Benjamin, sir, thank you. And again, take care. Be safe, again, with the explosions that you're hearing and experiencing now in Baghdad.

Before we go back to Atlanta, I think it was very important to listen to the words of Geoffrey Hoon, Anderson and Carol, when he talks about these pockets of resistance. Again, they're describing this as a relatively small number of what they say are desperate men. Clearly this has been the story over the past 48 hours, but he's urging patience right now in order to eventually take care of these pockets in the small towns in Southern Iraq.

Listen, we should hear more of Central Command and we'll (ph) brief in about two hours and certainly we'll have it live for you here on CNN then.

Back to Anderson and Carol now at the CNN Center.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Certainly so. Bill Hemmer reporting live from Kuwait.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com