Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Today
A Discussion with a British Military Spokesman
Aired March 24, 2003 - 10:14 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk more about the images and speech with Rym Brahimi, now in Amman, Jordan, after spending five months in the Iraqi capital.
Rym, your impression of what you saw and heard today from Saddam Hussein?
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, the first thing that strikes he or strike anyone who followed this story, these events, President Saddam Hussein clearly, again, just like first speech he gave after the first night of bombing, sending a very clear message to all outside and inside Iraq, that he's still in charge, he's still there, as is the Iraqi government.
Now, the president also used certain references, religious references in particular, definitely a way of trying to curry or rally support among the regional Arab population or Muslim population in the region at large.
Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SADDAM HUSSEIN, IRAQI PRESIDENT (through translator): The victory is soon. These decisive days for you Iraqis are in line with what God has ordered you, to cut their throats, and those who are the believers will be victorious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAHIMI: Now, repeating some warnings that he had previously issued in the weeks building up to the war, President Saddam Hussein warned that Iraq would make this battle as painful as possible for the U.S. enemy, as he called them.
Now these remarks were echoed by Iraq's information minister, who then shortly after that speech was broadcast on Iraqi TV, spoke to reporters. He told reporters that this -- the situation for U.S. and British troops would continue to deteriorate. This is how he put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF, IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER: Invaders, mercenaries, the British and Americans, yesterday was a dark day for them and there will be many more dark days for the mercenaries, British and Americans, and it will be even darker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAHIMI: Information Minister Mohammed Saeed Al-Sahaf also said Iraq had downed two U.S. Apaches and might show the pilots at a later stage if convenient. He then denounced the United States for what he said were double standards in handling prisoners of war, saying the U.S. was outraged when Iraq showed pictures of U.S. servicemen and women on TV, when it had no qualms of showing Iraqis that had been captured as well. He also said that the United States, he ridiculed, in fact, the United States for referring to international conventions while U.S. had troops on Iraqi soil as part of an invading force.
And finally, the minister also gave a count, a recent Iraqi casualties throughout the country, 382 wounded and 62 killed. Not clear, however, whether these were military or civilian casualties -- Bill.
HEMMER: Rym, thank you. Rym Brahimi from her position now in Amman, Jordan.
Meanwhile, back here in Kuwait, several hours ago, CNN's Christiane Amanpour is with us here in Kuwait City, but since that time, he's moved on with the British military, back in the northern part of the country.
Christiane, not sure where you are, perhaps you're back at the post you were this weekend, but nonetheless, good evening to you there. What's happening?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, this is the divisional field headquarters for the British military, who's operating in southern Iraq, and just a couple of headlines today.
They are saying that the British took out 12, engaged and took out 12 Iraqi T-55 tanks, and also British, two British soldiers are missing, but perhaps most importantly, what's going on is that they're saying they have to slightly reconfigure. I guess that's military for trying to change a little bit of their operations, because they are experiencing kinds of opposition that is causing them to have to refigure exactly how they do their military operations, and to get precise details, we going to turn to turn to Colonel Chris Berman, who is the spokesman, the military spokesman, for the British operation here.
Tell us exactly what you mean by reconfigure and what kind of opposition you are facing, for instance, Umm Qasr and Basra?
COL. CHRIS VERNON, BRITISH MILITARY SPOKESMAN: We've noticed in Umm Qasr, and it's now evident that in Basra, there are groups of irregular forces operating in civilian clothes, and we believe they are Ba'ath Party zealots, would describe them very well, linked to the SSO organization.
AMANPOUR: That means Saddam's party zealots, you're saying, the and Special Security Organization?
VERNON: That's correct. They were in Umm Qasr, and they're now, we now think, are in Basra. Now we're configured as a war fighting force. We can take on the conventional Iraqi army very easily in the desert, and that's been shown both by the American and ourselves, and we triumph very, very easily.
We're now seeing perhaps equally some of the Iraqi regular army have moved back into Basra. That's going to face just one problem, but when we take on these irregular forces, we're just going to have to think slightly more cleverly and slightly more adroitly as to how we take them on.
We're pretty well versed in this, the British. We've done this many, many years over our pretty long military history, and it will just mean a slight rejigging, reposturing, and methodology, which I won't go into detail just to adapt to that slightly different threat.
AMANPOUR: We've been seeing quite dramatic pictures shot by British soldiers out there of them going into various buildings on outskirts of Basra. There has also been some firing, I understand, of artillery out of Basra and British have returned, just describe that.
VERNON: Well, last night, British forces who were five kilometers west of Basra, were engaged by artillery coming out of Basra. We responded to that. We have to. We can't sit on the ground and take incoming artillery fire. We don't want to fire into Basra, but we have to if we're taken on.
I would point out, it's pretty surgical. Our technical means are pretty good, and we can say pretty convincingly, the collateral damage should have been minimal. On the outskirts of Basra, we're now beginning just to probe a little, little bit, just to see, and where we are being taken on, we will respond with the full weight of heavy metal against those forces.
AMANPOUR: Well, put this in context and in the big picture. Certainly when we started, we came out here being briefed from higher up at CENTCOM, that, you know, you were hoping to bring humanitarian aid two days ago, we reported. You were hoping to be welcomed in Umm Qasr and also in Basra. Things in that sense are not going quite according to the optimistic predictions.
VERNON: Well, we're not waking to any timelines here. Our aim is, yes, to bring humanitarian aid into Basra. That's why went from Umm Qasr, which wouldn't have gone for as an urban kind of bastion (ph), unless we really had to. We're broadly there now. We hope to get humanitarian aid in their now in the foreseeable there.
How we get into Basra is now another problem. We've got these irregular forces oppressing the people. We cannot really overstate the level of oppression that happens at a time like that. We therefore equally have got to gain confidence of the people there. How are we going to that? Well, one of the ways, we're trying to communicate in every way we can -- leaflet drops, interdicting, setting up radio stations for them to tune into, to gain the confidence, and see that this is a powerful military force, ready to bring them in humanitarian aid, if they will just rise up a little bit, gain the confidence to put off this military regime, this oppression sitting on top of them, and we'll come in, and they will be protected.
AMANPOUR: Colonel Chris Vernon, thank you very much indeed.
So that, as you can see, is the latest from here. And as I say, things in that sense are going slight slower than they had hoped. And they are having to do what they can to fight what is essentially turning into in certain pockets these irregular forces, these militias, which are also regrouping and coming around and attacking the rear, not just in the British positions, but also in the American positions further in country and up towards Baghdad.
Back to you, Bill.
HEMMER: Christiane, quickly, interesting and fascinating stuff in terms of the military strategy. Do you know or talk with the Brits or the Americans how many of these irregular forces might be in Southern Iraq? Are we talking thousands? Are we talking hundreds? Or is it possibly much more than thousands, maybe tens of thousands?
AMANPOUR: Well, it's difficult to know, I can tell you that the POWs that we saw in Umm Qasr a couple of days ago, they had about close to 200 surrenders, and some of those, we were told, were these Fedayeen, these militias. We know that several hundred maybe were still holed up and firing out of Umm Qasr, so maybe that's a total of about 400.
But one of the things that we're being told is even the surrendering troops, the regular Iraqi army troops, which we're being told surrendered outside the Basra area, now is feared that many of them have civilianized. That's a terrible military speak for putting on civilian clothes, taking off their military uniforms and going back into the city, and using the city as a base for their offensive against the British troops outside. It's Impossible to know the number, but even small group can cause havoc -- Bill.
HEMMER: Christiane Amanpour with the British military in northern Kuwait.
One quick note here, you're going to hear a lot about Basra. You're going to hear a lot, again, about Umm Qasr. It should be pointed out, Saddam Hussein in his message earlier today, encouraging his commanders in Basra to hold fast, hold the line tight, and also applauding the reaction of his own military in the recent engagement there is in Umm Qasr.
Saddam Hussein, in his own words, giving credence to the possibility that that tape was recorded, possibly earlier today, or even as soon as yesterday on Sunday. More from Kuwait in a moment.
Here is Paula again -- Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Jason Bellini with the U.S. Marine Expeditionary Unit of the 15th artillery, on the move once again in southern Iraq. He joins us once again by videophone. It's going to be hard for you to make him out in the picture. For all the obvious reasons, CNN will not be using lights here. Jason, go with your report. What's the very latest from there?
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Paula, and that's right, the sun setting right now. We're outside of Umm Qasr. We can't give our specific location. But we're with these Marines short while ago...
(AUDIO GAP)
BELLINI: They couldn't tell exactly where it was coming from. These buildings back behind, to try to draw out whoever was firing at them, they used a TOW missile, they used two mortar rounds, machine gun fire, and then shortly after that, we saw an ambulance pull up, and appeared that some people got into this ambulance, and then shortly after that, there were several men who were wearing -- dressed in black, who came out holding a white flag.
Now since then, they sort of disappeared and they can't exactly tell where they are and still trying to figure out where these men are and try to flesh them out some more.
We've been standing by, watching the scene here, takes longer than you sometime expect for the scenes to play out and some civilians in the area who are spotted, and that's an obvious concern to these Marines, when they are trying to draw out these armed men who are firing at them. But they have been firing at them since their suppression fire just a short while ago, and now over the side, there are some civilians who have surrendered, who are now being taken as enemy prisoners of war -- Paula.
ZAHN: Tell us about some of the confusion out there, Jason. A number of CNN's imbeds have described -- even Christiane, who's reporting from Kuwait, describing Iraqi soldiers putting civilian clothes on top of their uniforms. How murky does it get out there?
OK, we hung in there for a second, thinking we could re-establish our contact with Jason Bellini, who is with the U.S. Marine Expeditionary Unit of the 15th artillery.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 24, 2003 - 10:14 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk more about the images and speech with Rym Brahimi, now in Amman, Jordan, after spending five months in the Iraqi capital.
Rym, your impression of what you saw and heard today from Saddam Hussein?
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, the first thing that strikes he or strike anyone who followed this story, these events, President Saddam Hussein clearly, again, just like first speech he gave after the first night of bombing, sending a very clear message to all outside and inside Iraq, that he's still in charge, he's still there, as is the Iraqi government.
Now, the president also used certain references, religious references in particular, definitely a way of trying to curry or rally support among the regional Arab population or Muslim population in the region at large.
Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SADDAM HUSSEIN, IRAQI PRESIDENT (through translator): The victory is soon. These decisive days for you Iraqis are in line with what God has ordered you, to cut their throats, and those who are the believers will be victorious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAHIMI: Now, repeating some warnings that he had previously issued in the weeks building up to the war, President Saddam Hussein warned that Iraq would make this battle as painful as possible for the U.S. enemy, as he called them.
Now these remarks were echoed by Iraq's information minister, who then shortly after that speech was broadcast on Iraqi TV, spoke to reporters. He told reporters that this -- the situation for U.S. and British troops would continue to deteriorate. This is how he put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF, IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER: Invaders, mercenaries, the British and Americans, yesterday was a dark day for them and there will be many more dark days for the mercenaries, British and Americans, and it will be even darker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAHIMI: Information Minister Mohammed Saeed Al-Sahaf also said Iraq had downed two U.S. Apaches and might show the pilots at a later stage if convenient. He then denounced the United States for what he said were double standards in handling prisoners of war, saying the U.S. was outraged when Iraq showed pictures of U.S. servicemen and women on TV, when it had no qualms of showing Iraqis that had been captured as well. He also said that the United States, he ridiculed, in fact, the United States for referring to international conventions while U.S. had troops on Iraqi soil as part of an invading force.
And finally, the minister also gave a count, a recent Iraqi casualties throughout the country, 382 wounded and 62 killed. Not clear, however, whether these were military or civilian casualties -- Bill.
HEMMER: Rym, thank you. Rym Brahimi from her position now in Amman, Jordan.
Meanwhile, back here in Kuwait, several hours ago, CNN's Christiane Amanpour is with us here in Kuwait City, but since that time, he's moved on with the British military, back in the northern part of the country.
Christiane, not sure where you are, perhaps you're back at the post you were this weekend, but nonetheless, good evening to you there. What's happening?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, this is the divisional field headquarters for the British military, who's operating in southern Iraq, and just a couple of headlines today.
They are saying that the British took out 12, engaged and took out 12 Iraqi T-55 tanks, and also British, two British soldiers are missing, but perhaps most importantly, what's going on is that they're saying they have to slightly reconfigure. I guess that's military for trying to change a little bit of their operations, because they are experiencing kinds of opposition that is causing them to have to refigure exactly how they do their military operations, and to get precise details, we going to turn to turn to Colonel Chris Berman, who is the spokesman, the military spokesman, for the British operation here.
Tell us exactly what you mean by reconfigure and what kind of opposition you are facing, for instance, Umm Qasr and Basra?
COL. CHRIS VERNON, BRITISH MILITARY SPOKESMAN: We've noticed in Umm Qasr, and it's now evident that in Basra, there are groups of irregular forces operating in civilian clothes, and we believe they are Ba'ath Party zealots, would describe them very well, linked to the SSO organization.
AMANPOUR: That means Saddam's party zealots, you're saying, the and Special Security Organization?
VERNON: That's correct. They were in Umm Qasr, and they're now, we now think, are in Basra. Now we're configured as a war fighting force. We can take on the conventional Iraqi army very easily in the desert, and that's been shown both by the American and ourselves, and we triumph very, very easily.
We're now seeing perhaps equally some of the Iraqi regular army have moved back into Basra. That's going to face just one problem, but when we take on these irregular forces, we're just going to have to think slightly more cleverly and slightly more adroitly as to how we take them on.
We're pretty well versed in this, the British. We've done this many, many years over our pretty long military history, and it will just mean a slight rejigging, reposturing, and methodology, which I won't go into detail just to adapt to that slightly different threat.
AMANPOUR: We've been seeing quite dramatic pictures shot by British soldiers out there of them going into various buildings on outskirts of Basra. There has also been some firing, I understand, of artillery out of Basra and British have returned, just describe that.
VERNON: Well, last night, British forces who were five kilometers west of Basra, were engaged by artillery coming out of Basra. We responded to that. We have to. We can't sit on the ground and take incoming artillery fire. We don't want to fire into Basra, but we have to if we're taken on.
I would point out, it's pretty surgical. Our technical means are pretty good, and we can say pretty convincingly, the collateral damage should have been minimal. On the outskirts of Basra, we're now beginning just to probe a little, little bit, just to see, and where we are being taken on, we will respond with the full weight of heavy metal against those forces.
AMANPOUR: Well, put this in context and in the big picture. Certainly when we started, we came out here being briefed from higher up at CENTCOM, that, you know, you were hoping to bring humanitarian aid two days ago, we reported. You were hoping to be welcomed in Umm Qasr and also in Basra. Things in that sense are not going quite according to the optimistic predictions.
VERNON: Well, we're not waking to any timelines here. Our aim is, yes, to bring humanitarian aid into Basra. That's why went from Umm Qasr, which wouldn't have gone for as an urban kind of bastion (ph), unless we really had to. We're broadly there now. We hope to get humanitarian aid in their now in the foreseeable there.
How we get into Basra is now another problem. We've got these irregular forces oppressing the people. We cannot really overstate the level of oppression that happens at a time like that. We therefore equally have got to gain confidence of the people there. How are we going to that? Well, one of the ways, we're trying to communicate in every way we can -- leaflet drops, interdicting, setting up radio stations for them to tune into, to gain the confidence, and see that this is a powerful military force, ready to bring them in humanitarian aid, if they will just rise up a little bit, gain the confidence to put off this military regime, this oppression sitting on top of them, and we'll come in, and they will be protected.
AMANPOUR: Colonel Chris Vernon, thank you very much indeed.
So that, as you can see, is the latest from here. And as I say, things in that sense are going slight slower than they had hoped. And they are having to do what they can to fight what is essentially turning into in certain pockets these irregular forces, these militias, which are also regrouping and coming around and attacking the rear, not just in the British positions, but also in the American positions further in country and up towards Baghdad.
Back to you, Bill.
HEMMER: Christiane, quickly, interesting and fascinating stuff in terms of the military strategy. Do you know or talk with the Brits or the Americans how many of these irregular forces might be in Southern Iraq? Are we talking thousands? Are we talking hundreds? Or is it possibly much more than thousands, maybe tens of thousands?
AMANPOUR: Well, it's difficult to know, I can tell you that the POWs that we saw in Umm Qasr a couple of days ago, they had about close to 200 surrenders, and some of those, we were told, were these Fedayeen, these militias. We know that several hundred maybe were still holed up and firing out of Umm Qasr, so maybe that's a total of about 400.
But one of the things that we're being told is even the surrendering troops, the regular Iraqi army troops, which we're being told surrendered outside the Basra area, now is feared that many of them have civilianized. That's a terrible military speak for putting on civilian clothes, taking off their military uniforms and going back into the city, and using the city as a base for their offensive against the British troops outside. It's Impossible to know the number, but even small group can cause havoc -- Bill.
HEMMER: Christiane Amanpour with the British military in northern Kuwait.
One quick note here, you're going to hear a lot about Basra. You're going to hear a lot, again, about Umm Qasr. It should be pointed out, Saddam Hussein in his message earlier today, encouraging his commanders in Basra to hold fast, hold the line tight, and also applauding the reaction of his own military in the recent engagement there is in Umm Qasr.
Saddam Hussein, in his own words, giving credence to the possibility that that tape was recorded, possibly earlier today, or even as soon as yesterday on Sunday. More from Kuwait in a moment.
Here is Paula again -- Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Jason Bellini with the U.S. Marine Expeditionary Unit of the 15th artillery, on the move once again in southern Iraq. He joins us once again by videophone. It's going to be hard for you to make him out in the picture. For all the obvious reasons, CNN will not be using lights here. Jason, go with your report. What's the very latest from there?
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Paula, and that's right, the sun setting right now. We're outside of Umm Qasr. We can't give our specific location. But we're with these Marines short while ago...
(AUDIO GAP)
BELLINI: They couldn't tell exactly where it was coming from. These buildings back behind, to try to draw out whoever was firing at them, they used a TOW missile, they used two mortar rounds, machine gun fire, and then shortly after that, we saw an ambulance pull up, and appeared that some people got into this ambulance, and then shortly after that, there were several men who were wearing -- dressed in black, who came out holding a white flag.
Now since then, they sort of disappeared and they can't exactly tell where they are and still trying to figure out where these men are and try to flesh them out some more.
We've been standing by, watching the scene here, takes longer than you sometime expect for the scenes to play out and some civilians in the area who are spotted, and that's an obvious concern to these Marines, when they are trying to draw out these armed men who are firing at them. But they have been firing at them since their suppression fire just a short while ago, and now over the side, there are some civilians who have surrendered, who are now being taken as enemy prisoners of war -- Paula.
ZAHN: Tell us about some of the confusion out there, Jason. A number of CNN's imbeds have described -- even Christiane, who's reporting from Kuwait, describing Iraqi soldiers putting civilian clothes on top of their uniforms. How murky does it get out there?
OK, we hung in there for a second, thinking we could re-establish our contact with Jason Bellini, who is with the U.S. Marine Expeditionary Unit of the 15th artillery.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
