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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
Massive Battle Between Coalition Forces, Iraq Units South of Baghdad
Aired March 25, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: As you've just been reporting over the course of the past half hour, the Pentagon is reporting a major battle, in fact, what could be the biggest land battle of this war so far, south of Baghdad. As many as 500 Iraqi soldiers are reported to have been killed so far in that battle. Our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre will have the late breaking details from the Pentagon.
Over the course of this hour we'll also be reporting on what appear to be the first cracks in Saddam Hussein's regime. British forces now say there's been a popular uprising in Iraq's second largest city of Basra. We'll have reports from our correspondents with the Army, the Air Force, Navy and Marines tonight and we'll be discussing the coalition's strategy with military analysts Generals David Grange and Don Shepperd.
And former defense secretary and MONEYLINE regular contributor William Cohen will be here to tell us what senior officials at the Pentagon and the CIA are saying about this campaign and its progress.
British artillery has been firing at Iraqi troops trying to put down that rebellion in Basra. The British also involved in a fierce battle with Iraqi troops trying to break out of the city. Twenty Iraqi armored vehicles were destroyed in the battle. Earlier, British commandos said Basra would be treated as "a legitimate military target" in order to wear down Iraqi forces and then to deliver humanitarian aid.
U.S. troops have been reinforcing their positions around Baghdad. Their progress has been slowed by heavy sandstorms, but that has not held up Army units involved in tonight's battle near the Iraqi capital.
The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Richard Myers, General Myers says coalition forces are on the doorstep of Baghdad. Artillery has also been firing on the Republican Guard's Medina Division, entrenched in positions outside the city. Marines have started to cross the Euphrates River in Nasiriya in large numbers and the Marines are still fighting Iraqi units in the city using helicopters, tanks and artillery.
Tonight, the Marines said they have taken control of a hospital that was being used as a base by Iraqi forces and they took nearly 170 Iraqi soldiers prisoner. Paratroopers have also joined the fight in Iraq. Central Command did not say where these paratroopers were dropped or from which unit they originated. They only said the soldiers were successful in their mission and seized a landing strip in the Iraqi desert.
But first, let's take a look at what's happening at this hour. The remains of the first to American Marines killed in Operation Iraqi Freedom arrived at Dover Air Force Base today. An honor guard accompanied the bodies of the two Marines. Both soldiers lost their lives Friday while fighting in southern Iraq.
There were more bombs over Baghdad tonight. Large explosions rocked the city as the coalition air assault continues unabated. Most of the air strikes are located east of the city. Now, that's where members of Iraq's Republican Guard are believed to be entrenched.
Black Hawk helicopters are patrolling the skies above New York City now. The military deployed the helicopters and the Department of Homeland Security ENS (ph) with small jets to accompany them because of concerns that New York City could be a terrorist target. The flights will continue 24 hours a day, although authorities report no specific terrorist threat.
And the Senate today rejected the cornerstone of President Bush's economic plan. In a surprising vote and by a narrow margin, the Senate voted to cut the president's $700 billion tax cut by half. The president says those cuts are needed to boost the economy.
And on Wall Street today, stocks ended higher. The Dow Jones Industrials up 65, the NASDAQ up 21, the New York Stock Exchange and the NASDAQ have banned the Al Jazeera network from reporting from their facilities. The New York Stock Exchange said it was a space issue. The NASDAQ offered no reason.
Tonight, a massive battle has taken place between coalition forces and Iraq units south of Baghdad. The Pentagon says it could be the biggest land engagement of this war.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the very latest for us -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, I just want to caution you that these are initial reports from the battlefield coming back to the Pentagon and it always turns out there's something different about them when we find the whole story. But nevertheless, it does appear that U.S. soldiers from the 7th Cavalry division did encounter a large group of Iraqi forces. It's unclear whether they were paramilitary fighters, part of the Fedayeen Saddam or whether they were Republican Guard units from the Medina Division. Nevertheless, the U.S. says there was a sustained firefight, a ground engagement against the enemy forces which were primarily dismounted. They were on the ground.
They fired RPGs at the U.S. troops but the U.S. had superior firepower. The U.S. believes at this Pentagon they may have inflicted as many as 300 casualties. Earlier reports said 300 to 500. They're now saying they think it was more like 300, although they don't have a good idea. It could be more. No U.S. casualties or no U.S. deaths in the fighting, although the U.S. did lose some vehicles and, again, there's a sandstorm going on in that area so it's unclear exactly whether the U.S. was able to use the sandstorm for the tactical advantage or what. But it does appear that the U.S. has inflicted considerable casualties on an Iraqi force and this all took place, by the way, just east of Najaf, south of Baghdad -- Lou.
DOBBS: Najaf about 90 miles south of Baghdad, Jamie, and we are clear on at least in these early reports that it is the 7th Cavalry that's engaging these units, whether they be Fedayeen or Republican Guard?
MCINTYRE: That's the information we have here. From the latest information involving the 7th Cavalry, elements of the 7th Cavalry against these forces on the ground
Inflicted up to 300 casualties, perhaps more, 300 deaths, perhaps more. It's just very unclear at this point with these initial reports.
DOBBS: Unclear, as you say, initial reports, and Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent, will be working throughout this hour to bring as many details as clearly as possible to us from the Pentagon and we will be rejoining him for those reports. A very busy day for the Pentagon as the war in Iraq now extends across the breadth of the country.
Joining us now for more on what appears to be a battle that could well be this war's largest at this point is CNN military analyst General David Grange.
General, good to have you with us.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: The 7th Cavalry joining in this fight. Give us your best assessment as to, based on these early reports, as to what you think may be going on here.
GRANGE: Yes, I think, as Jamie McIntyre stated, it's a little confusing on the reports. We used to say truth changes and I think that's the situation that we're in. But basically, you know, the Cav is the, the 7th Cav is the eyes and the ears of the Third Infantry Division and if we could go to the map just for a minute, the map board here, they're fighting, we think, elements of the Medina division and also the Fedayeen, maybe, and paramilitary forces.
So, between Kabala you have a tank battle -- when I say tanks, it's tanks because of the type of fighting equipment that the 7th Cav has and, of course, Bradley vehicles, as well. And they're fighting enemy forces between Najaf and Karbala.
Now, those are, that's a critical gap in the approach to Baghdad because it has several bridge sites in that area. And this unit has been recognizing sniper, mortar and RPG fire all day with one of our reporters, Walter Rodgers, reported that. And now they've hit, it appears, a larger resistance.
But keep in mind that the rest of the division, the Third Infantry Division is also in some fights that are pretty tough and we haven't really received the situation reports from those battles -- Lou.
DOBBS: What is not reflected on the map, General, that we are referencing here is Najaf, which is slightly south, it's southeast of Baghdad slightly more eastern, if you will, than Karbala. It's about 90 miles south-southeast of Baghdad.
It was our impression that because of the sandstorms, as we've been receiving reports from our correspondents with each one of these units, the sandstorm was so strong that units were taking this opportunity to rest up, to catch their breath a bit before an engagement that probably wasn't expected by many people for another day or so, until these sandstorms subside. But that obviously is not the case here.
Is it your sense that this is a probing by the 7th Cav in advance of the 3rd?
GRANGE: Well, the 7th Cav's job is to poke around in the enemy lines and report back to the Third Infantry Division what they find. And they do that, they make contact with enemy units. If they can destroy them without degrading their mission of reconnaissance, they will, in fact, do that. And the enemy, because of the sandstorms, just like there was a rainstorm or if it was restricted to rain, hug the coalition forces because they have an advantage if they can get in close because it negates some of our long range fires.
DOBBS: You know, as you said, General, truth changes in war and these early reports are always, as we are always reminded by every briefing officer from the Pentagon, right up through the chairman of the joint chiefs, General Richard Myers. But it sounds as if in these earliest reports that this was an unexpected engagement and apparently a number of vehicles of the 7th Cav have been lost. No reports of casualties here on the part of the 7th Cav. But those vehicles would be what in this highly mobile unit?
GRANGE: Well, the M1A1 Abrams tank, the M3 Bradley, which is a version of the infantry Bradley, but it's for scout purposes. It usually has more munitions on it because there's less infantry troops. They have scouts in there. They go out and do, for instance, the bridge reconnaissance that was done today when that calvary unit secured, destroyed the enemy force and got across the Euphrates River and saved that bridge for the rest of the Third Infantry Division. Quite an accomplishment and very important to the coalition forces.
DOBBS: And a bridge that we understand was already set with explosives, wired and ready to be blown.
General Grange will be returning to us here. If I may ask you, General, to stand by as we further look for your insights into this campaign in Iraq and these developments that are taking place near the city of Najaf, an engagement by the 3rd Squadron of the 7th Cavalry.
CNN's Gary Tuchman is reporting now that U.S. pilots have not seen a single Iraqi plane in the sky since this war began. But the United States and its coalition partners have flown thousands of sorties and those continued today despite raging winds, sandstorms and heavy rainstorms, as well.
Gary will be joining us along with his photographer, Demira Loratech (ph), in just a matter of moments.
We want to turn now our focus to Basra. Reports of an uprising there by the Shia population, at least a portion of them. British forces say that a popular uprising has begun inside the city, even as British forces prepare to attack the city, even as the coalition has designated now the city of Basra, a town of about just under a million and a half people, as a legitimate target.
Iraq denies the reports of the uprising and the Pentagon to this hour cannot confirm it, but an Iraqi opposition group says the revolt against Saddam Hussein has, indeed, started. British forces also say British troops turned back an attempt by Iraqi armored forces to break out of Basra. Tonight, two British soldiers were killed by friendly fire near the city. They were in a Challenger tank that was hit by a shell from another tank.
Christiane Amanpour reports on the battle for Basra.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The British Army had been forced to change tactics around Basra because it is encountering much stiffer than expected military resistance, both from irregulars like these Saddam Fedayeen and elements of the Iraqi Army 51st Division. Their commanders had been thought to surrender and disband. But instead they have pulled back into the city, along with tanks and heavy artillery. And they're engaging the British arrayed outside.
These British troops rest after fierce tank and artillery duels and the officers say they are now entering a difficult and high risk military operation to destroy Iraqi Army resistance. And this is exactly what British forces had hoped to avoid. They do not want to get sucked into street fighting and they want to avoid killing Iraqi civilians.
COL. CHRIS VERNON, BRITISH ARMY SPOKESMAN: We're seizing fleeting opportunities as he brings his tanks out to the rear outskirts, engaging with direct fire tanks and, indeed, artillery, but only onto the outskirts, where we're pretty clear we're not going to inflict collateral damage on civilians.
AMANPOUR: The British had hoped to be welcomed into Basra and they want to deliver humanitarian aid. Now, they hope to speed that up by finally taking control of the port of Umm Qasr, after several days of military operations against Iraqi Army elements who had held out to the end. Supply ships may start entering the port as soon as the channel is swept of mines.
BRIG. JIM DUTTON, BRITISH ROYAL MARINES: We're not in Basra and Basra has very little food, electricity and water. So we're going to have to find other ways of getting supplies down there, which is what's occupying our minds at the moment.
AMANPOUR: In the meantime, massive supplies of humanitarian aid are stacked up in Kuwait and they may be driven in.
(on camera): Destroying the Iraqi armed resistance around Basra will take much longer than the British Army had expected and British officers now admit that the Iraqis are trying to fight this battle on their own terms, trying to draw the British into urban warfare, knowing that they cannot defeat superior force in the open desert.
Christiane Amanpour, CNN, with the British divisional headquarters in northern Kuwait.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And as we've reported, not a single Iraqi aircraft has been seen in the skies by coalition aircraft since this conflict began.
CNN's Gary Tuchman and his photographer, Demir Loratech (ph), are at an air base near the Iraqi border and Gary joins us now -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, you know, the Air Force is saying that Iraq still has at least 300 fighter planes, but as you said not one has been seen in the sky since this war began. (AUDIO GAP) was the northern no flight zone and the southern no flight zone has become an all country no flight zone for the Iraqi government.
Nevertheless, the air war has slowed down today but it's not because of a war plan, it's because of the weather. We've had tropical storm force winds in the region of up to 55 miles per hour. We've also had heavy rain. We've had thunder and we've had lightning. So at this base where we're at near the Iraqi border, they had 1,110 flights into Iraq over a four day period. We were seeing 10 to 15 war planes take off on the runway each hour. Today it's down to three to five an hour. But the weather is supposed to improve some time tomorrow.
But there have been some flights today. A short time ago we talked with a pilot who just finished a mission to Iraq, and that's what's so different about this war, is we're literally talking to pilots after they climb out of the cockpit and they go on television even before they give a full briefing to the people they work for. So it is very interesting for us and we think for our viewers.
But this pilot told us she was on a bombing mission. She bombed a strategic road south of Baghdad between Iraqi troops and coalition troops. And then she told us, as she was taking off, her plane got struck by lightning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: (AUDIO GAP) this is incredible, but you told me that your aircraft, your F-16 fighter, was just struck by lightning while it was flying to Iraq.
THUMPER, F-16 PILOT: Yes, that's right.
TUCHMAN: You're laughing about it.
THUMPER: Well, it's kind of funny because I never thought that would happen to me. But, yes, it got struck.
TUCHMAN: What happened?
THUMPER: Nothing really. It knocked out my threat warning system and that was a little bit stressful. But everything else is OK so.
TUCHMAN: Your threat warning system tells you if there are missiles being fired at you or anti-aircraft artillery. I mean isn't that dangerous?
THUMPER: It can be. However, we fly with other wingmen so...
TUCHMAN: Another plane in front of you?
THUMPER: Yes, another plane is with you. And so I just told him that mine had been knocked out and I was just going to react to threats as he did.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: That pilot's name, by the way, we can't say on the air. We can tell you her call sign. Her call sign, her nickname is Thumper. She's from San Antonio, Texas. Her husband is also a fighter pilot, but he is not here right now. He happens to be back in the United States.
By the way, the Air Force is an organization in which virtually any job is also open to women that is open to men.
We can tell you that according to officials here, 80 percent of the flights that have taken off from this base and gone to Iraq have been subject to anti-aircraft artillery fire or surface to air missile fire from the Iraqis. But not one has hit a coalition plane -- Lou, back to you.
DOBBS: And may the record stay perfect.
Gary Tuchman reporting from an undisclosed base near the Iraqi border.
We want to show you pictures right now, if we may, of Baghdad at this hour. These are live pictures you're looking at. The city appears quiet. There has been no air raid siren and we will be checking and monitoring, as we always do, of course, our cameras that are watching that city. And it is, as you see on the screen there, 2:17 in the morning Baghdad time.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today said coalition forces are systematically eliminating the institutions that underpin Saddam Hussein's power and his regime. But he said the war is still much closer to the beginning than the end.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): The blinding sandstorms that blanketed southern Iraq clearly hampered some U.S. ground and air operations.
MAJ. GENERAL. VICTOR RENUART, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: It's a little bit ugly out there today.
MCINTYRE: But the military was quick to argue the bad weather was having little effect on the overall war plan.
RENUART: It's been not a terribly comfortable day on the battlefield. However, that hasn't stopped us.
MCINTYRE: In fact, according to CNN's Walter Rodgers, elements of the 7th Cavalry used the cover of sand to outflank Iraqi troops, securing a key bridge across the Euphrates while continuing toward Baghdad.
At the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his top military adviser fended off criticism that vive days in, the U.S. war plan was suffering from lack of forces and foresight.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I think the plan is finely formulated and as put together by General Franks, with some help and some advice, but by General Franks and his commanders, is a brilliant plan and we've been at it now for less than a week. We're just about to Baghdad.
QUESTION: If you may have crated the impression in the public mind that this was going to be over in four days.
RUMSFELD: I thought I answered that.
(CROSSTALK)
RUMSFELD: I certainly did not. General Myers certainly did not.
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon took particular exception to criticism from some analysts and retired generals that the rapid advance of U.S. troops has left a vulnerable supply line that stretches over 200 miles into Baghdad.
QUESTION: ... we've been too lightly defended, as critics charge? RUMSFELD: No, in my view, no. We've got total dominance of the air. It is not air superiority, it's dominance. They've not put an airplane up.
QUESTION: But the Fedayeen are chipping away, it seems, at...
RUMSFELD: And these are ones and twos. And that you're going to live with, like we lived with in Afghanistan. That's what we live with in some major cities in the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are plans being put in -- or plans in place to deal with those onesies and twosies.
MCINTYRE: Even with the bad weather, the U.S. continued to use satellite guided bombs to soften up Republican Guard positions. Here, a U.S. Air Force F-15 takes out a Medina division tank south of Baghdad. And over the last two days, U.S. warplanes trumped Iraq's six GPS Jammers by taking them out with the very satellite guided bombs they're designed to thwart.
RENUART: I'm also pleased to say they had no effect on us. In fact, we destroyed one of the GPS Jammers with a GPS weapon. Ironic.
MCINTYRE: U.S. satellite photographs show that Iraqi troops have set large oil trenches afire around Baghdad in what the U.S. says is another futile gesture.
RENUART: I would say that those oil fires burning are more a hazard to the people living in Baghdad than they are an impediment for us to conduct operations.
MCINTYRE: In Basra, Iraqi tactics have forced a change in the U.S. strategy to avoid cities. Members of Saddam Hussein's shock troops, the Fedayeen Saddam, are terrorizing the Shia population, preventing anyone from leaving or welcoming coalition troops. So now British forces are moving to take out the regime loyalists and liberate the strategic port city.
COL. CHRIS VERNON, BRITISH ARMY SPOKESMAN: Part of the strategy, clearly, is to delink the regular army, probably the softer of the targets, the irregular forces and the Ba'ath Party regime and drive a wedge between that and the people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: It appears that U.S. Army soldiers may have inflicted as many as 300 casualties against an Iraqi force near al-Najaf. Let me tell you about the other one that was fairly significant. In this case, it was U.S. Marines at a hospital in al-Nasarif (ph). There they found about 170 what they called paramilitary forces who apparently were using the hospital as a base of operations, storing weapons and significantly about 3,000 chemical weapons suits. They also found there a chest that contained atropine, the antidote for nerve gas, another indication that Saddam Hussein's troops may be planning to use chemical weapons -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much.
Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent, with the latest.
Coming up next here, we'll be going to Wolf Blitzer in Kuwait City. He'll have the very latest, where there has been another friendly fire incident there involving a coalition aircraft and a Patriot missile battery. And there are new concerns tonight, as Jamie McIntyre just referenced, that Iraq may resort to chemical weapons. Our national security correspondent David Ensor will have that story for us and a great deal more still ahead here.
Stay with us.
COMMERCIAL
DOBBS: There's been another friendly fire incident involving a coalition aircraft and a Patriot missile battery. In this case, however, there were no casualties. It follows the loss of two British airmen Sunday when a Patriot accidentally shot down a Tornado bomber.
Wolf Blitzer joins us live now from Kuwait City -- Wolf, tell us about this latest friendly fire incident, which I understand involved an Air Force F-16.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Very interesting, Lou, because it's a major development now that these Patriot missiles, which we knew were all over Kuwait where I am protecting U.S. troops, protecting the population of Kuwait from incoming Iraqi missiles, what we didn't know was that these Patriots are now moving into southern Iraq together with U.S. troops to protect the U.S. and coalition forces.
In this particular incident, there was a mobile Patriot air defense missile and by mistake an F-16 misunderstood it was apparently there and shot at it. There were no casualties, as you say, but it does underscore the hair trigger nature of the environment in which the U.S. military is engaged right now.
I have to tell you, based on the experience of the new generation of Patriot missiles here in Kuwait right now, there have been about a dozen Iraqi missiles of various types that have been launched against targets here in Kuwait and the new generation of Patriots, the so- called Pat 3, they've done really well. They've intercepted a lot of them. The other ones have just fallen into the desert or into the water and have caused no damage whatsoever.
So these new Patriots are good.
DOBBS: They're good, in point of fact, it's not entirely clear at this point, perhaps you can shed some light on this, Wolf, but it appears that each time that the Patriot battery is fired, it has scored a hit. These that have gone harmlessly into the desert or into the Gulf, apparently they did not fire Patriots, is that correct?
BLITZER: Yes. The Patriots have scored direct hits. According to the Central Command, which is overseeing the U.S. war effort, Patriots have done really well. And remember, the original Patriots, those were not designed to shoot down missiles. Those Patriot missiles were designed to shoot down planes, enemy aircraft. These were air defense missiles, still are, and they're very good.
Unfortunately, you point out that incident with the Tornado, the British jet that was accidentally shot down by a Patriot, apparently crossed back from Iraq, heading tornado warnings Kuwait. And in that particular incident, that so-called friendly fire incident, those two British pilots were unfortunately killed.
DOBBS: Let's turn to another unfortunate incident, but we must. What is the latest on Sergeant San Akbar (ph), accused of killing one of his fellow soldiers and wounding 15 others?
BLITZER: This is the sergeant who's accused of taking four hand grenades, and live hand grenades, throwing them into a tent of the 101st Airborne Division up here in northern Kuwait, throwing them into a tent with senior officers there and three of those hand grenades went off, killing one of the officers, wounding, I think, 14 or 15 others.
Sergeant Hassan Akbar has now been taken to Germany to Manheim, where there's a U.S. detention center there. He's being charged and he will be tired, maybe in Germany, maybe he'll be brought back to the United States. By most accounts, a disturbed young man, obviously, who is accused of committing this act of murder, if you will, fratricide as it's called, when one member of a U.S. military unit attempts to kill another member. And this is a very demoralizing aspect. People are looking back at his record now, going back to Los Angeles, where he studied, among other places, at an Islamic center there. They want to try to understand why, what motivated someone to do this if, in fact, he did do this. And, of course, he's only accused of doing this. He hasn't been convicted of anything yet.
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much.
Wolf Blitzer reporting from Kuwait City.
Thank you, Wolf.
One of the big uncertainties facing coalition commanders is the possibility that Iraqi forces at any time might use chemical weapons. The United States has repeatedly said the use of weapons of mass destruction would prompt a major retaliation.
Our national security correspondent David Ensor has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In southern Iraq, British forces have found gas masks in abandoned Iraqi positions, heightening concerns among coalition forces approaching Baghdad that the Iraqis may plan to use chemical weapons, since, as the Iraqis should know, U.S. and British forces do not use them. U.S. officials say some intelligence indicates a red line may have been drawn around the capital, with Republican Guard units ordered to use chemical weapons once U.S. and allied troops cross it. There is also intelligence, officials say, suggesting Republican Guard units have been issued artillery shells containing chemical agents.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: There has been intelligence scraps -- who knows how accurate they are -- chatter in the system that suggests that the closer that coalition forces get to Baghdad and Tikrit, the greater the likelihood and that some command and control arrangements have been put in place.
ENSOR: In Baghdad, Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz repeated his government's stand, it does not have any kind of weapons of mass destruction.
TARIQ AZIZ, IRAQI DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: When they started to talk about the weapons of mass destruction, we know and we always knew that that was fabrication and lies.
ENSOR: Experts say Saddam Hussein's forces will likely try to hold out in Baghdad for as long as possible without using the weapons his government insists it does not have, hoping to build international pressure on the U.S. and Britain to back down.
KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: In that sense any use of chemical weapons would be counterproductive to Saddam, because it would only galvanize international opinion around the United States.
ENSOR: But if the coalition forces cannot be deterred that way then, says Ken Pollack, all bets may be off.
POLLACK: And he will use chemical warfare to prevent the United States from taking Baghdad and to inflict as many casualties as he can on U.S. forces in hope that that will convince the United States to stop the war.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gas, gas, gas!
ENSOR: But U.S. and allied forces are well equipped and trained against chemical weapons.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: And Lou, this discovery that Jamie McIntyre reported about earlier in Nasiriyah, in a hospital building, of 3,000 chemical suits and masks and atropine kits for treatment if someone's been exposed to chemical weapons, really underscore the danger here, the concern, the growing concern that U.S. and other officials have that the Iraqis may be planning to use these weapons.
They have the defenses to use them. You need them. There's the blowback risk, of course, when you use a chemical weapon. The wind can change, it can come back on your own forces -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: More troubling evidence and as yet, obviously, no hard evidence of the intent of either Saddam Hussein or his commanders, and I guess at this point all we can do is hope.
David Ensor, national security correspondent. Thank you.
President Bush today said we Don't know how long this war in Iraq will last. But he said we do know its outcome. Speaking at the Pentagon, President Bush also saluted members of the military.
President Bush also asked Congress for $75 billion to pay for this war. Senior White House correspondent John King reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president says coalition troops are on a steady advance but face more dangerous days just ahead.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're fighting an enemy that knows no rules of law, that is willing to kill in order to continue the reign of fear of Saddam Hussein.
KING: This Pentagon visit was to officially unveil a nearly $75 billion emergency war spending plan and to push the Congress to pass it quickly.
BUSH: This money will cover the current costs of fueling our ships and aircraft and tanks and of airlifting tons of supplies into the theater of operations.
KING: The emergency budget request covers six months of spending and is based on a rough Pentagon estimate that the most intense initial combat phase will run about 30 days.
But as forces prepare for decisive battles near Baghdad, the administration is shying away from any official timetable.
BUSH: We cannot know the duration of this war. Yet we know its outcome. We will prevail.
KING: Mr. Bush promised food and medicine will soon be delivered to the Iraqi people.
And national security adviser Condoleezza Rice was at the United Nations to discuss long-term humanitarian efforts and the U.S. plans for running a post-war Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Now, there are huge stockpiles of humanitarian supplies in the region, but little of it is flowing into Iraq, despite a promise by the president that that aid pipeline would be open by now.
The White House insists the Iraqi mining of a key harbor and other steps by the Saddam Hussein regime are to blame, not any bad coalition planning -- Lou.
DOBBS: John, let's turn to the surprise vote and victory for Senate Democrats, turning back more than half of the president's proposed tax cut today. KING: Lou, the White House says it hopes there will be more votes and perhaps the president can regain ground and get that tax cut back up to where he wants it, in the $700 billion range. But certainly, this is a blow to the president. Not only the Democrats but several moderate Republicans saying the president was asking for way too big of a tax cut at a time of war.
It is just one vote, but it came of course, at a key moment for the president just as he sent the war budget up there. The White House hopes to recover. We'll see.
DOBBS: John, thank you very much. Senior White House correspondent John King.
These now are the latest developments at this hour.
It may be the biggest battle of the war in Iraq so far. The Pentagon says its forces are currently engaged in a massive fight with Iraqi troops near the city of Karbala. At least 300 Iraqi soldiers may have been killed in the attack against the U.S. 7th Cavalry.
Meanwhile, an Iraqi civilian uprising is under way tonight in Basra. British forces say the people of the city have taken to the streets against the ruling Ba'ath Party. The population of Iraq's second largest city, Shiah Muslims.
Forces loyal to Saddam Hussein fired mortars at the crowds to quell the rebellion. The British have been reportedly firing on Iraqi soldiers trying to leave the city.
Three tugboats and a barge loaded with mines have been towed to a port in Kuwait. Those vessels captured three days ago. U.S. Navy officials say they were preparing to mine the waters off the port of Umm Qasr.
The Navy is now turning to trained dolphins in the war in Iraq. The dolphins will be used to locate seaborne mines in the waters around Umm Qasr. The dolphins will then mark them for Navy divers to inspect. No mines have been discovered so far.
Firefighters from Kuwait have extinguished their first Iraqi oil well fire. Sandstorms, however, forced them to abandon efforts to put out a second fire today. Several wells were set ablaze by Iraqi forces as they retreated from one of Iraq's biggest oil fields days ago.
The sandstorms raging through Iraq have slowed tonight but not stopped the coalition air strikes.
Frank Buckley is aboard the carrier USS Constellation in the Persian Gulf. Greg Cains (ph) is his photographer. And Frank joins us now via videophone -- Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, weather a challenge tonight for some of the pilots as they take off and land in the dark here in the Persian Gulf. But flight operations are continuing. You can probably hear the jets revving behind me.
Pilots from this aircraft carrier are increasingly involved in close air support missions. These are the missions where they're flying specifically in support of troops engaged in the heat of battle or leapfrogging ahead of those troops to hit things that will help those troops when they are engaged in battle.
We sat in on a briefing with some of the pilots who are heading out from the Death Rattler squadron. That's the Marine Corps squadron here on this aircraft carrier.
We found that they hear on their way out what their kill box is going to be. The kill box is the area of their responsibility. They hear that during their briefing. And then en route, they get the specific passing on exactly what it will be that they will be hitting.
In this case the men from this particular squadron say that they hit some armored personnel carriers in Karbala.
A strike position -- fixed targets are also still being hit by some of the strike aircraft on the USS Constellation, but again, close air support is increasingly one of the major roles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADM. BARRY COSTELL, CONSTELLATION BATTLE GROUP: Characterize it as a high percentage of them are doing the close air support, whether that be hitting artillery pieces, whether that be hitting arms caches in a proximity, whether that be hitting Republican Guard troops, or whether that be hitting surface-to-air missile systems in the vicinity of their forces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: Also, a bit of naval history made from the USS Constellation yesterday when an S-3 Viking, that's primarily a submarine hunter and more recently has more recently become a mid-air refueler for the carrier itself, flying above the aircraft carrier (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
DOBBS: Frank Buckley struggling, as we are, and we want to say we thank you for your understanding as the static is building up there from the USS Constellation, from which Frank Buckley was reporting.
We will try to get back to him if we can get that signal clear over the course of the next hour or two.
For more now on the coalition's air strikes on Iraq and what this weather, these weather conditions in Iraq are doing to air operations, we turn to CNN military analyst General Don Shepperd.
General, this sandstorm and now reports from the Pentagon of what may be the largest ground battle of the war, will this weather deter close air support for those troops engaged by the troops of the 7th Cavalry? GEN. DON SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, absolutely, Lou. Weather plays havoc with close air support. You've got to be able to see troops there, you've got to be able to identify them.
Now, we can see through weather, we can see through darkness, we can see through smoke, but it really plays havoc. And this is all understandable.
The enemy is taking advantage of this bad weather, hugging up to, as David Grange said, the Army forces there, and attacking them at closer range. The excessive firepower that the United States possesses, however, is going to result in a lot of casualties for the Iraqi side as they try this.
DOBBS: What is the appropriate coalition response here? Close air support is not possible. The initial reports from Jamie McIntyre and Barbara Starr at the Pentagon is that these may be elements of the Madina division of the Republican Guards. If so, they will be armored and therefore tanks involved. Can they be struck by other than close air support?
SHEPPERD: Absolutely. If I could go to the map here and telestrate over the map for our viewers, I think I can explain this a little bit.
What you've got right now from a ground situation is south of Baghdad here you've got the Madina division. To the east of Baghdad you have the Alnida (ph) division. To the west you have the Hamurabi (ph) division.
Now, I'm going to draw in a line here and introduce a new term to our viewers called an FSCL, fire support coordination line. What you're going to find north of that fire support coordination line is the Air Force, the Navy, and the Marines being able to launch strikes in accordance with their rules of engagement.
You're going to find F-16s, you're going to find F-18s, you're going to find A-10 aircraft, you're going to find them employing against all of these divisions.
Now, down here south of the divisions, south of this yellow line, the fire support coordination line, you're going to have what you call CAS, close air support. This has to be done with -- very carefully, and you have to have Air Force or Marine forward air controllers with your Army troops. And employed in that CAS, you're going to find A-10 aircraft, you're going to find helicopters, and it has to be very, very carefully coordinated.
The idea is up here to the north you'll be able to find and strike targets on your own. Down here to the south you have to be talking to somebody and making sure you're hitting the enemy forces and not our forces. And that's going to be very heavy in the next few days as the weather clears, Lou.
DOBBS: General, let's turn also to the report Gary Tuchman, not a single Iraqi aircraft has been airborne since this conflict began. Why is that?
SHEPPERD: One basic reason. If they fly, they die. They know if they take off they're no match for the United States Air Force, the United States Navy. They will be killed if they take off.
Now, to ensure that they can't take off, I am positive, without knowing the war plan, that the coalition forces have hit the bases from which they can take off and made sure that they can't get from their taxiways onto the runway to take off.
So all this is very understandable. You will want to not have to repair those air bases later. And later on Iraq will want an Air Force. You don't want to destroy everything. But coalition forces have the capability to destroy both the air fields and the aircraft. And if they take off, they surely will die.
DOBBS: General Don Shepperd, as always, we appreciate your insight and analysis. Thank you very much.
Coming up next here, it could be the biggest ground battle of this war. The Pentagon says as many as 300 Iraqis may have been killed south of Baghdad, near the city of Karbala. General David Grange will assess the importance of the battle and what likely comes next in the ground war.
Also, a fierce desert sandstorm, intense enemy fire have failed to stop coalition forces have from moving closer to Baghdad. General David Myers says despite of this coalition forces are on the doorstep of Baghdad.
Incredible pictures. An incredible story when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The 3rd Infantry Division, 7th Cavalry, was tonight involved in a major battle with Iraqi forces south of Baghdad. The latest reports say the Iraqis suffered at least 300 casualties. There are no reports of any U.S. or coalition casualties.
Earlier the 7th Cavalry punched across the Euphrates River, crossing over a booby-trapped bridge during a blinding sandstorm while being fired upon by the Iraqis.
Our Walter Rodgers is with the 7th Cavalry and has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we're showing you is the convoy in which we're riding heading north, again, in the general direction of north in a very strong sandstorm.
It's like being in a blizzard except, unfortunately, the sand doesn't melt as the snow does. Now, this gives some temporary military advantage to both sides although the greater military advantage falls to the Iraqis. The American advantage in crossing the Euphrates River bridge this morning was it was like a smoke screen. The sandstorm was like a smoke screen, and so they couldn't begin shooting at us very accurately, and consequently, under those circumstances they didn't have that chance to reload, re-fire, reposition, re-aim.
The 7th Cavalry literally had to run something of a night ambush on both sides of the road Last night, crossing one of the canal bridges that preceded the Euphrates River. And that fight was, as I say, more than significant. There were machine gun tracer bullets going out on either side of the road. Every Bradley, every tank was firing.
Imagine looking out into total darkness in an agricultural area. You can't see, oh, more than 40 or 50 meters without night vision goggles. And you know there are people out there. We had no idea how many people were out there, but it turned out to be several hundred, 300, 400 Iraqi dismounts. That's infantry soldiers were out there shooting at the 7th Cavalry's convoy last night.
I had to change microphones, one which will give you more ambient sound as opposed to the direct sound of my narration. Again, we're traveling in a convoy in the general direction north from the Euphrates River. The commander of the 7th Cavalry gave us permission to say that we had crossed the river after indeed that was a fait accompli.
The U.S. Army's 7th Cavalry has just taken three Iraqi prisoners of war. Actually, they're very close. That is to say, no more than 40 yards away. But the dust and sand are blowing so badly you're getting these vague images.
They were captured by the U.S. Army up the road not very far ahead of us. They were driving a truckload of weapons. And that's when the Army apprehended them. They've had their arms tied. They're lying in the sand now. No evidence of any hostility on their part now.
But I should point out that as the 7th Cavalry has moved forward for the past, oh, four or five hours, the cavalry has taken plenty of small arms fire and mortar fire.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Walter Rodgers reporting with the 7th Cavalry.
Joining us now for more on the coalition's ground advance today, CNN military analyst General David Grange.
General, the 7th engaged. It's unclear with what units of the Iraqis at this point. The 7th Cavalry seems to be absolutely on point here for the entire operation. Or is that just simply an illusion?
GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, it's -- they are on point. They are on point for the 3rd Infantry Division. And -- But there's other elements on point as well for the other units going forward. The British commando and the British 7th Armored Brigade, the Desert Rats. The Marine 1st Infantry Division has reconnaissance in front of them. The 101st airborne division has reconnaissance, as well as elements that are to the west and up north.
DOBBS: Now, across the country, quite literally, as one looks at the map, coalition forces are engaged from the north to the south, across the east to the central Iraq, so far are not aware of any engagements to the east of Baghdad. What do you expect to happen here over the course of the next 24 hours?
GRANGE: OK. If I may, on the map, Lou, a couple things that lead up to what's going to happen.
Umm Qasr, in this area right here, we know that it's secure by the British commandos. We know that in Basra there's still fighting going on. You talked about that earlier today on the show.
And I believe that that eventually, those people will revolt, and the paramilitary forces will be eliminated. And that may take a while to root them all out, but that'll happen.
Nasiriyah, the same thing, with the U.S. Marine Corps, secured more of the area and are continuing to fight. You have the same thing that you just talked about in Najaf and Karbala with the 3rd of the 7th Cavalry followed by the 3rd Infantry Division.
Out west we have units that have a -- the coalition has units that have engaged somewhat, we think, but have the area secured.
And then up north, as they build up, the coalition builds up the northern advance.
Now, around Baghdad you have the Republican Guard dug in with the three Republican Guard divisions. About 8,000 to 10,000 enemy soldiers each with several hundred tanks and fighting vehicles each. That is their ring of defense around Baghdad.
And as we talked about earlier, the 7th Cav moving in that direction encountered either the southern elements of that Madina Republican Guard division mixed with probably paramilitary forces.
So eventually, there's going to be a line of battle in here as the 3rd Infantry Division joins the fight, the 101st Airborne somehow goes in somewhere, and we don't know, and I hope we're pleasantly surprised, as well as the build-up of the coalition forces with Kurds coming down from the north.
These fights will continue with possibly breakouts to the north from those two locations, as well.
DOBBS: General David Grange, thank you, General Grange, and General Don Shepperd will rejoin us here in a matter of moments.
Coming up next, I'll be talking with former Defense Secretary William Cohen about the day's developments and the strategy going forward in the war on Iraq. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: William Cohen, former defense secretary and MONEYLINE regular contributor, joining us tonight from Washington.
Bill, good to have you here. You were at the Pentagon. You had a briefing. I know you can't share that briefing with us. But is there a sense of confident accomplishment at the Pentagon, or is there a sense of frustration?
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: No, I think it's one of confidence, that the secretary and others would like to see us lower our expectations, perhaps, somewhat in terms of the pace of this campaign, pointing out it's only been a few days, and there may be weeks if not longer to go. And to basically caution patience and to look at the overall plan.
We've gone from that so-called decapitation strike initially to what I would now call a dismemberment, or dismantlement strategy now, and that's systematically being achieved.
DOBBS: You, serving as -- formerly as defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld now serving as defense secretary, some generals starting to question the strategy that has been employed, some talking about the way in which the U.S. and the coalition forces are proceeding, and we're five days into this.
I would have to imagine he's a little annoyed, a little frustrated. Would you be?
COHEN: Well, indeed. I think you saw a little flash of that frustration during the course of the press conference. To say it's only been a few days, give the plan a chance to unfold as it should.
You can see what's taking place as David grange -- General Grange and General Shepperd are pointing out, how systematically all of those arteries leading to the heart of Baghdad, if you're thinking in terms of anatomically, those arteries are going to be cut off and shut down. And so Saddam Hussein himself will be led with that pulsating heart, perhaps, but it can't survive over the long term. And that's also very clear.
DOBBS: Perhaps only in America could -- I suppose principally journalists and some others act as though one could rationally expect results in terms of an absolute uprising from the people of Iraq, principally the Shiahs, our complete and absolute military victory within a matter of less than a week.
What would you -- what counsel would you give Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on this issue?
COHEN: I don't think he needs any counsel from me. He has been in this job before and understands the pressures of it.
But basically to continue to reassure the American people that plans are unfolding, it's been well thought out, a great deal of flexibility's been built into it, we understand that weather conditions may change, we understand there may be friendly fire, all of these unfortunate things that can take place in the fog of war will take place. But basically to be patient and to understand that we are proceeding with caution and prudence as well as much alacrity as we can.
And I think that the people of this country simply have to understand how really good our young people are and they can see this real-time, 24 hours a day, the kind of sacrifices they're making, and to understand that war involves brutal force and it's not pretty to see, but that's what war entails, and the American people are now seeing it. And they ought to be very proud of the young people who are serving us.
DOBBS: And I think should be proud of the fact that the Department of Defense have given members of the press in this country the opportunity to report the war from the units, from the unit level. Unprecedented and remarkable.
I want to close with one quick question. We have about 30 seconds, Bill. This talk about humanitarian aid. Some discussion of a U.N. role following the victory over Saddam Hussein. Is it your expectation that the United Nations will not be involved in any significant role beyond humanitarian aid?
COHEN: I think the U.N. will play a humanitarian aid role. Beyond that I think it's hard to say or hard to see until this is really resolved. This may take months, if not longer, to see how this all shakes out.
But I can't see a very active role, beyond humanitarian assistance and relief organizations by the U.N. But we'll have to wait and see exactly how this is resolved. It's going to be some months, to say the least.
DOBBS: Bill Cohen, as always, good to have you with us.
COHEN: My pleasure.
DOBBS: General Don Shepperd, General David Grange are rejoining us now to assess the day's battlefield and their best understanding of what has happened here.
We began this day talking about sandstorms and how limited the action would be, and now it appears that we may have had the biggest land battle of this war. Give us your assessment as to where we are now, General Shepperd.
SHEPPERD: Basically, the air activity has been much reduced during the past 24 hours, Lou.
The weather's going to be clearing in the next 12 to 14 hours. You should see air activity pick up. You can see repeated attacks against targets in the Baghdad area and repeated and heavy attacks against the Republican Guard formations all across the country, transitioning to close air support, as well, of the forces as they start to move, Lou.
DOBBS: General Grange, this battle with the 7th Cavalry, where do you think we go from here over the course of the next 24 hours?
GRANGE: Continuing to probe enemy defenses, the Republican Guard divisions to the south of Baghdad. Working out the issues and challenges of 200 miles of logistics supply lines and paramilitary operations in rear areas, while you're doing that. A tough challenge.
The sandstorms probably gave units a chance, actually, to rest, refit, and prepare for the next phase of the operation, which I think will spring right out of that situation.
DOBBS: Are you gentlemen today pleased with the progress of this war?
SHEPPERD: Absolutely. I think a lot of the armchair people that the secretary was talking about are wrong. I think General Tommy Franks has a good war plan, he's not going to put U.S. forces at risk, string them out where they can be vulnerable and attacked. You'd always like to have more forces. They're closing there, Lou.
DOBBS: General Grange, you get the last word on it.
GRANGE: Yes, I would say, Lou, that the -- Don't expect everybody just to rush right into Baghdad. I think the coalition force has to destroy some significant forces yet, shape the battlefield some more, with some of the capitulation of enemy forces to the south. I think you're going to see Basra fall.
DOBBS: General David Grange, General Don Shepperd, gentlemen, thank you very much. With the coalition forces, as General Richard Myers, said, on the doorstep of Baghdad tonight.
Aaron Brown will continue CNN's coverage of the war in Iraq throughout the evening but first, let's turn to Heidi Collins with the latest developments from CNN Center.
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