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CNN Live Today

Talk with Col. Mike Turner

Aired March 26, 2003 - 11:24   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. forces still preparing to make their move on Baghdad. The military calls it the most dangerous phase of the war for troops. For some insights now on some of the strategies involved, let's go to Colorado Springs, Colorado, where Retired Air Force Colonel Mike Turner joins us.
It's always good to see you; thanks for dropping by.

COL. MIKE TURNER, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: First of all, share with us some of your reaction to some of what Barbara just reported from the Pentagon, an official acknowledgement that in fact, they underestimated the strength of some of these paramilitary groups.

TURNER: Well, what's happened is there's been a shift in the battlefield tactical situation that our command structure is now beginning to respond to, and has to respond to, in order to stay focused, as Barbara said, on the main thrust of our military objectives.

What gives us pause in this case is that this force is roughly the size of the defensive force we had in Desert Storm in the fall of '90. There were a number of members of the senior Bush administration who were pushing hard to attack with that defensive force. And General Schwarzkopf and General Powell argued, thankfully successfully, not to do that and to build up that force.

Now a decision has been made to go in with a much leaner force this time and on the assumption our technology can bridge that gap. What happens is when you go in with such a lean force and battlefield activities cause us to have to shift in even a slight way, our margin for error, our options becomes and our margin for error becomes dramatically reduced.

So this is of concern because we've had to shift and focus on something other than the principal objective. But we'll just have to wait and see how this plays out. The plus is that with the Fedayeen deployed in the field, if we can break their back in the field, we may have a much easier battle when we ultimately go into Baghdad.

ZAHN: Am I hearing you say, Colonel Turner, that the military should have put more men and women on the ground here?

TURNER: No. We can't make that assessment yet. What we know for a fact is we're going in with a much smaller force. I think it is reasonable to suggest that the military objective of overthrowing a regime in a major urban area is a much more complex and potentially dangerous objective. The supposition has been that our technology and our improvements in the past 12 years will essentially create overwhelming force, just as we had in Desert Storm. But that is a projection of known data and it is a risk. There's a risk element involved here, particularly when you begin to encounter unknowns on the battlefield and shifts in the tactical situation that perhaps may have been anticipated but maybe not to this extreme. So it's a cause for concern. We'll need to keep an eye on it and see how it develops.

ZAHN: But how do you really successfully take on the Fedayeen if they're doing what Barbara just said, where some have stolen British and American uniforms, some are in civilian clothes and they are widely dispersed.

TURNER: That's one of the real serious downside risks of this scenario that we're engaged in right now. This cannot come as a shock to the administration. This simply can't. Saddam Hussein has no lower limit to the atrocities that he will commit. He simply will not -- he was fighting for survival. He will not follow any kinds of Geneva Convention rules. So we just need to accommodate what changes in that regard, but have no illusions that Saddam will do anything and everything to try and slow us down and defeat us.

ZAHN: Yesterday General Myers acknowledged in an interview that the Pentagon strategy to shock and awe the Iraqi regime with a dramatic early air barrage didn't work exactly as planned. I guess that's exactly what he said. What did you make of the strength of the air campaign?

TURNER: Well, I think what he's referring to is the fact that everything I have seen on camera and in the newspapers and in the media reports suggests that we have struck the targets that we planned to strike; that we have conducted the air campaign precisely as we intended to conduct it, but it has not had the result, the outcome that we expected. And so we're having to adjust there, also. I think we anticipated some other outcomes with the population, with the resistance of the command and control and their ability to remain cohesive in the face of that shock and awe campaign that apparently haven't materialized quite as we expected. So we'll have to adjust to that also.

ZAHN: Colonel, please stand by, because we are hearing that not only is Reuters but Al-Jazeera television reporting signs of some air strikes in the southern part of Baghdad. I wish I could give you more context than that, but Colonel Turner, the administration has made it clear that there are a number of strategic targets they still haven't hit, right, military-wise?

TURNER: Yeah. They'll continue to work through the fixed target list on the deep interdiction campaign. But as I mentioned a few days ago, now we have troops beginning to come into contact around the outskirts of Baghdad, they will shift that focus of that air campaign to fielded military units, the Republican Guard units and really begin to soften that battlefield in preparation for the onslaught into Baghdad. So now you're beginning to see a bigger mix of the types of targets, sort of a more fluid air battle going on. ZAHN: Colonel Mike Turner, thanks so much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 26, 2003 - 11:24   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. forces still preparing to make their move on Baghdad. The military calls it the most dangerous phase of the war for troops. For some insights now on some of the strategies involved, let's go to Colorado Springs, Colorado, where Retired Air Force Colonel Mike Turner joins us.
It's always good to see you; thanks for dropping by.

COL. MIKE TURNER, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: First of all, share with us some of your reaction to some of what Barbara just reported from the Pentagon, an official acknowledgement that in fact, they underestimated the strength of some of these paramilitary groups.

TURNER: Well, what's happened is there's been a shift in the battlefield tactical situation that our command structure is now beginning to respond to, and has to respond to, in order to stay focused, as Barbara said, on the main thrust of our military objectives.

What gives us pause in this case is that this force is roughly the size of the defensive force we had in Desert Storm in the fall of '90. There were a number of members of the senior Bush administration who were pushing hard to attack with that defensive force. And General Schwarzkopf and General Powell argued, thankfully successfully, not to do that and to build up that force.

Now a decision has been made to go in with a much leaner force this time and on the assumption our technology can bridge that gap. What happens is when you go in with such a lean force and battlefield activities cause us to have to shift in even a slight way, our margin for error, our options becomes and our margin for error becomes dramatically reduced.

So this is of concern because we've had to shift and focus on something other than the principal objective. But we'll just have to wait and see how this plays out. The plus is that with the Fedayeen deployed in the field, if we can break their back in the field, we may have a much easier battle when we ultimately go into Baghdad.

ZAHN: Am I hearing you say, Colonel Turner, that the military should have put more men and women on the ground here?

TURNER: No. We can't make that assessment yet. What we know for a fact is we're going in with a much smaller force. I think it is reasonable to suggest that the military objective of overthrowing a regime in a major urban area is a much more complex and potentially dangerous objective. The supposition has been that our technology and our improvements in the past 12 years will essentially create overwhelming force, just as we had in Desert Storm. But that is a projection of known data and it is a risk. There's a risk element involved here, particularly when you begin to encounter unknowns on the battlefield and shifts in the tactical situation that perhaps may have been anticipated but maybe not to this extreme. So it's a cause for concern. We'll need to keep an eye on it and see how it develops.

ZAHN: But how do you really successfully take on the Fedayeen if they're doing what Barbara just said, where some have stolen British and American uniforms, some are in civilian clothes and they are widely dispersed.

TURNER: That's one of the real serious downside risks of this scenario that we're engaged in right now. This cannot come as a shock to the administration. This simply can't. Saddam Hussein has no lower limit to the atrocities that he will commit. He simply will not -- he was fighting for survival. He will not follow any kinds of Geneva Convention rules. So we just need to accommodate what changes in that regard, but have no illusions that Saddam will do anything and everything to try and slow us down and defeat us.

ZAHN: Yesterday General Myers acknowledged in an interview that the Pentagon strategy to shock and awe the Iraqi regime with a dramatic early air barrage didn't work exactly as planned. I guess that's exactly what he said. What did you make of the strength of the air campaign?

TURNER: Well, I think what he's referring to is the fact that everything I have seen on camera and in the newspapers and in the media reports suggests that we have struck the targets that we planned to strike; that we have conducted the air campaign precisely as we intended to conduct it, but it has not had the result, the outcome that we expected. And so we're having to adjust there, also. I think we anticipated some other outcomes with the population, with the resistance of the command and control and their ability to remain cohesive in the face of that shock and awe campaign that apparently haven't materialized quite as we expected. So we'll have to adjust to that also.

ZAHN: Colonel, please stand by, because we are hearing that not only is Reuters but Al-Jazeera television reporting signs of some air strikes in the southern part of Baghdad. I wish I could give you more context than that, but Colonel Turner, the administration has made it clear that there are a number of strategic targets they still haven't hit, right, military-wise?

TURNER: Yeah. They'll continue to work through the fixed target list on the deep interdiction campaign. But as I mentioned a few days ago, now we have troops beginning to come into contact around the outskirts of Baghdad, they will shift that focus of that air campaign to fielded military units, the Republican Guard units and really begin to soften that battlefield in preparation for the onslaught into Baghdad. So now you're beginning to see a bigger mix of the types of targets, sort of a more fluid air battle going on. ZAHN: Colonel Mike Turner, thanks so much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com