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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE for March 27, 2003
Aired March 27, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: These, the major developments in the war against Saddam Hussein tonight.
Coalition forces have resumed the bombing of Baghdad. Kurdish forces have crossed into territory previously controlled by the Iraqi army. Iraqi troops withdrew from positions on the road to northern Iraq's oil capital, Kirkuk. And over the coming hour here, we will focus on what appears to be a new stage in the coalition's assault on the regime of Saddam Hussein.
The target of tonight's air strikes, government buildings in Baghdad. The raids were the most powerful on that city in several days. Nic Robertson will have the very latest for us on the air strikes.
The 3rd Infantry Division today resumed its advance toward Baghdad, supported by heavy artillery barrages. But elements of the division are still engaged with Iraqi forces defending the city of Najaf. Walt Rodgers with the 7th Calvary will have our report.
Fighting has also continued around a strategic town of Nasiriyah in southeastern Iraq. Several battalions of Marines are reported to be in involved in that fire fight. More than 30 Marines were injured in friendly fire incidents.
And further south, British tank units fought a fierce battle with an Iraqi armored force near Basra. The British said about 15 Iraqi tanks were destroyed in the engagement. There were no British losses. Christiane Amanpour will report on the battle for Basra.
But first, here is what is happening at this hour.
U.S. transport aircraft have begun landing at a captured air field in northern Iraq. The Army's 173rd Airborne Brigade parachuted into the area overnight. Nearly 1,000 soldiers greeted by Kurdish forces who provided them with support and transportation. The Harir airfield will become the launching point for the coalition's northern front.
The Army's 4th Infantry Division is going to war. The first members of the 4th left Ft. Hood, Texas, today, some 20,000 soldiers from the 4th are expected to leave by the weekend. Their deployment, held up when the United States failed to receive approval from the Turks to use Turkey as a wartime staging area.
An angry John Negroponte stormed out of a United Nations Security Council meeting today. Negroponte was angered by a barrage of accusations unleashed by Iraq's ambassador to the U.N. Iraq charged that the United States and Britain are engaged in criminal and barbaric behavior.
Dirty bomb suspect Jose Padilla will not be meeting with his attorneys any time soon. The government says Padilla should be held incommunicado indefinitely because he is an enemy combatant. But a hearing to set terms of those meetings has been delayed by a government appeal. Padilla is accused of plotting to detonate a dirty bomb in the United States.
The House today overwhelming overwhelmingly approved a creation of a nationwide Amber alert network. That network would help inform the public when a child is abducted. The House also attached several additional child protection measures to that legislation that may prevent the Senate from agreeing to the bill.
Coalition forces tonight carried out some of the heaviest strikes on Baghdad since the war began. Huge clouds of smoke rose hundreds of feet into the air. Part of Iraq's International Communications Center appeared to be on fire as a result. Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, who was expelled from Baghdad a few days ago, has more on the story from Jordan - Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, we could see the base of that International Communications Center erupt in flames as it appeared to be targeted. This is the same building that was targeted back in 1991 on the first night of the Gulf War bombing then. Now, it is a communications center, but likely not the only one in Baghdad. When it was targeted in 1991, the communications around the rest of the city continued to function. There are other communications centers in and around Baghdad.
We've also seen targeting very close to Iraq's Ministry of Information. Difficult again to know exactly what has been hit. But I've heard from sources in Baghdad that the munitions that were used to target an area behind the information ministry in bombing near the television center yesterday were much smaller munitions than we've seen used previously. An indication perhaps, because of the proximity to civilian housing, that they may have decided - coalition forces may have decided to use smaller munitions. And we do know that located in that area that was targeted was a satellite dish that transmits Iraq's satellite transmissions station.
And another very interesting note tonight, during that heavy bombardment that we've had pictures of in Baghdad, at the same time Iraq's information minister was being interviewed live on one of the Arab stations when the explosions were going on in the background. Apparently, he didn't flinch, but clearly Iraq's information minister and many other ministers today. we've heard from the minister of health, trying to get their view of what is going on out at this time. And the defense minister has said he expects the city to be surrounded in five to 10 days. And he says that he expects there to be fierce fighting on the capital streets - Lou.
DOBBS: Nic, you've spent a great deal of time over the past - better than a decade covering Baghdad, among other spots on this globe. Is your sense that the people of Baghdad are very concerned about the reports, the reality that Saddam Hussein's army has moved air defense units and weapons systems in amongst the residential areas?
ROBERTSON: People are very, very concerned. And I can only - Lou, to be honest, I can only speak about when we were there. But it's hard to imagine that their views would have changed. Very concerned about the shape of the conflict, not only what Iraq's forces may do, how close they may come to civilian infrastructures. And certainly I had a discussion with one person before I left. He said, look, we're absolutely helpless. If the government moves this type of military facility close to our houses, what can we do? We can't do anything about it. We have nowhere else to go. So people very concerned.
But it has to be said, Lou, there's a degree, a very high degree of resentment when people in Baghdad see civilians being injured. They believe the government officials there. They believe that these are acts of coalition forces. And their officials are telling them that these are deliberating targetings of civilians. And some people do believe that. I talked to one Iraqi today who left Iraq, Baghdad. You would think, Lou, that he would come out and say, OK, enough. I'm very finished with the Iraqi regime. But no, he says, I will go back and fight. Everyone in Iraq will fight. We may dislike our leadership, but we will fight because the country is being invaded.
However, I think it's perhaps more important to note that this particular gentleman, rather than staying and fighting - and he was apparently quite a senior person in Iraq's officialdom, if you will, he's chosen to leave. Perhaps he sees the writing on the wall - Lou.
DOBBS: So the coalition leadership that would expect to receive any credit amongst the general population of Baghdad for its careful precision targeting should not expect any?
ROBERTSON: I would say that is going to be a very difficult argument for coalition forces to win when they arrive in Baghdad. They're going to have to make their peace with the Iraqi people. They're going to have to show the Iraqi people when they get there that they can govern the city, that they can govern it in peace, that they can govern it without an over use of force if they're going to win over the civilian population. Every civilian death at this time, Lou, makes that job harder. It's not impossible, but it's going to be a tough job. And, of course, the coalition forces absolutely aware of that, and they absolutely say all their targeting is specifically done to avoid civilian casualties.
DOBBS: Nic Robertson, our senior international correspondent. Thank you, Nic. The first coalition transport aircraft have landed at the Harir airfield in northern Iraq, about 1,000 soldiers from 173rd Airborne Brigade secured that airfield last night after a night drop. Equipment continues to land there. Jane Arraf is nearby in northern Iraq.
Jane, what's the latest? JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the U.S. Army has just started,. apparently, just a couple of hours ago, landing the transport planes that are carrying more troops and equipment to actually open that northern front. Now, as you mentioned, the 173rd Airborne did a very dramatic drop earlier Thursday, landing about 1,000 troops to secure the airfield.
Now, they are gathered around the perimeter. And it is freezing cold out there. As we were driving rounds the edge of the airfield, we would see small groups of soldiers who were standing around open fires trying to keep warm. What they're doing is making sure that those transport planes can come in safely to allow that northern front to get off the ground.
Now, we saw C-130s landing as well as C-17s. They're meant to unload at some point tanks, artillery, armored personnel carriers. What we did see coming off were troops. Now, this is the long-awaited northern front. Not the one the U.S. had expected, which would have gone through Turkey, but one certainly that Kurdish forces have been waiting for for a long time and have very much welcomed - Lou.
DOBBS: Jane, thank you very much. Jane Arraf reporting from northern Iraq, a front that has been established with 1,000 members of 173rd Airborne rather than 30,000 troops, as originally planned, of the Army's 4th Division.
For more than two days now, the Army's 7th Cavalry has faced almost continuous enemy fire near Najaf. Even when reinforcements arrived to give the front line troops a break, there were many frightening moments. Walter Rodgers and his photographer, Charlie Miller (ph), are with the Army's 3rd Battalion 7th Cavalry, and Walter has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. Army's 3rd Squadron 7th Cavalry has now been reinforced by much larger units of the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division. But for 72 hours prior to that reinforcement, the 7th Cavalry was out by itself north of the Euphrates River, pushing northward almost under continuous fire. 7th Cavalry pushing to within 60 miles of Baghdad.
It had an extraordinarily difficult assignment, being out there by itself, no reinforcements behind it at that time. It was under very, very heavy mortar fire, rocket-propelled grenades, machine guns. And the assignment for the 7th Cavalry was to hold a bridgehead, to prevent an Iraqi counterattack.
At one point the previous evening, there was great concern that the Iraqis were sending an armed convoy in the very direction of the bridgehead where the 7th Cavalry was told to hold the line no matter what the cost. Eventually, B-52 strikes were called in. The B-52s broke up whatever troop concentrations the Iraqis were sending towards the 7th Cavalry. But, again, for at least 48 hours, the 7th Cavalry was by itself north of the Euphrates River. And when the reinforcements came from the 3rd Infantry Division, they were more than a little welcome.
Now, the 7th Cavalry standing down, refitting, cleaning the air filters on its tanks, rechecking the bore alignment on the guns. But for a while there, the 7th Cavalry lived up to its honorable reputation.
Walter Rodgers, CNN, with the U.S. 7th Cavalry, in central Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today said there will be no cease-fire in Iraq until this war is over. Today, the Pentagon said another 100,000 ground troops will be sent to the region under the existing war plan. Military analysts say hopes of scoring a quick and easy victory have certainly faded. Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No one ever said it would be easy, but apparently no one said it would be this hard, either.
LANCE CPL. JOSHUA MENARD, U.S. MARINES: We were very surprised. We were told when we were going through Nasiriyah that we should look to see little to no resistance. And then when we got in, it was a whole different ball game. They weren't rolling over like we thought they would.
SGT. CHARLES HORGAN (ph), U.S. ARMY: I thought, you know, oh my God, I'm going to die. And I thought, no, I'm going to lose my legs. It's going to hit the truck.
MCINTYRE: The Army's 7th Cavalry, which endured a harrowing 72- hour dash through what's been dubbed "Ambush Alley," got as much shock and awe as they gave.
SGT. PAUL WHEATLEY, U.S. ARMY: It's unreal. It's unimaginable. You're constantly almost paranoid or you are paranoid about every turn or every building or every person. And it's a little nerve-wracking at times.
MCINTYRE: Some Pentagon officials concede they underestimated both the reach of Saddam Hussein's fanatically loyal Fedayeen fighters and their ability to terrorize Iraqi soldiers and civilians. Now the Pentagon says it will no longer call them paramilitary forces.
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: In fact, what they are is death squads, enforcers. What they do is there's probably somewhere between 5,000 and 20,000 of them in the country, and they go into these cities and shoot people and threaten people and insist that they not surrender and not rise up.
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld insists that's why, so far, U.S. troops have not been hailed as liberating heroes in places like Basra, Nasiriyah, and Najaf. BRIG. GEN. VINCENT BROOKS, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Our field commanders report that in the vicinity of an Najaf, as one example, Iraqi regime forces are seizing children from their homes, telling their families that the males must fight for the regime or they will all face execution.
MCINTYRE: While the guerrilla tactics have forced more caution and inflicted casualties on U.S. forces, the Pentagon insists it hasn't changed the overall strategy, which is to focus on containing the six Republican Guard divisions around Baghdad, and then methodically killing them.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, U.S. JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: When they move, we try to hit them. We are bringing a lot of force against them to include our Apaches and our fixed-wing air, having some effect, we think, in degrading their combat capability. And at some point, at a time of our choosing, we will engage them. And we will see what kind of fight they have.
MCINTYRE: It could still be a while before U.S. forces enter Baghdad. Sources say the Pentagon strategy is to pound Republican Guard positions for days with big guns and precision air strikes before moving on the capital. Pentagon sources say the U.S. is ahead of the original war plan, which called for five days of air strikes before the ground campaign began.
The final version of the plan had ground troops going in a day after the air war kicked off. The last-minute decision to send the ground troops in two days early has put the U.S. slightly ahead of where it expected to be at this time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
There is a new unknown, are the Iraqi people suppressing their support for American military action out of fear, or will they still be hostile to American and British liberators after the shooting has stopped? Ultimately, Lou, that will be a large measure of whether the U.S. has really won the war.
DOBBS: Jamie, some discussion today, as you know, about these 100,000 troops to be called up. These include, obviously, the 4th Infantry, which was supposed to be deployed at the outset of hostilities. But these - are these scheduled? Were these in the plan, baked into the plan a month ago, two months ago?
MCINTYRE: They've been in the plan all along. In fact, the plan calls for more troops to arrive in Iraq almost on a daily basis. This month, next month, and the month after, March, April, May, troops will be arriving. What they do will depend on what the state of play is on the ground. For instance, the 4th Infantry Division, if they're still fighting when they get there about the second week in April, they'll either be sent to reinforce the 3rd Infantry Division or perhaps the U.S. Marines who are heading toward Al Kut. But if the war is over, then, they'll become part of the follow-on force. But this force deployment is part of the overall master plan that eventually will put over 300,000 troops into Iraq. DOBBS: You know, Jamie, all of the discussion about the length of this conflict, all of us as journalists have had a good look at the - at least the deployments that have been ordered up by the Pentagon. Many of us should not have been surprised by this rolling approach to bringing these troops in, should we?
MCINTYRE: Well, no. And you know, part of this debate was, I'm told from Pentagon sources, that this war plan went through at least 20 different versions, maybe even more. There was a big debate about whether they could do it with fewer troops or more troops. And in the end General Tommy Franks, I'm told, won out with his insistence that they needed to have a pretty heavy force. And that's why you're seeing all of these troops that are in the pipeline. Again, these are all part of the plan. And the Pentagon insists that if you could see the plan, you would see that they're right on track.
DOBBS: Jamie McIntyre, thanks for keeping us on track. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
Coming up next here, President Bush and Prime Minister Blair promise the war in Iraq will last just as long as it takes. Senior White House correspondent John King will have that report for us.
British troops can't deliver humanitarian aid to Basra because of the fighting there and mines in the sea. Christiane Amanpour will report from Basra.
Oil wells tonight are burning in Iraq. Wolf Blitzer will have the latest for us from Kuwait City.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair today said the war with Iraq will last as long as it takes to win. Both leaders gave an upbeat assessment of the progress of the war so far after meeting at Camp David. President Bush said, "we have one objective in mind, victory." Senior White House correspondent John King reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president and prime minister were determined to talk about the goal of the war, not its timetable.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Saddam Hussein will be removed no matter how long it takes.
KING: Skirmishes in southern Iraq continue. Troops being rushed into the north. And the Army's march on Baghdad has paused. But the men leading the coalition say they see far more progress than problems.
BUSH: Slowly but surely, the grip of terror around the throats of the Iraqi people is being loosened.
KING: The Camp David summit included talk of what post-war role the United Nations should play, and both British and U.S. officials tell CNN talk of a major rift on this point is exaggerated.
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Our primary focus now is and must be the military victory which we will prosecute with the utmost vigor.
KING: Yet a day after, Secretary of State Powell told Congress the United States, not the U.N., would take the dominant post-war role. Blair suggested more consultations were needed.
BLAIR: Without trying to do it by discussion through the press conference or through megaphone diplomacy.
KING: Both leaders want quick U.N. action on another front, resuming humanitarian aid under Iraq's Oil-for-Food Program. Some U.N. Security Council members are resisting. They say resuming aid now might be seen as endorsing the war.
BUSH: More than half the Iraqi people depend on this program as their sole source of food. Its urgent humanitarian issue must not be politicized.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Prime Minister Blair is at the United Nations this evening trying to break that impasse over the Oil-for-Food Program. Senior officials here at the White House note that it is France and Russia, two nations that sparred with the United States in the pre-war diplomacy, that are holding up a compromise now. One senior official a short time ago saying this is not the time to fight "old battles." It was time to reach a deal, reach a compromise, and get more food and medicine to the Iraqi people - Lou.
DOBBS: John, those battles are being fought, as you report. The French and the Germans adamant on this issue, suggesting that it will add legitimacy to the actions of the coalition in Iraq. Is there a sense there at the White House that there will be any sort of compromise on this issue of who will run the civilian - the civil administration in a post-Saddam Iraq?
KING: In terms of the Oil-for-Food Program, this senior official a short time ago interestingly said, the Germans are now being helpful behind the scenes. As to the long-term question of a post-war administration, the administration is adamant. It says the U.S. military will run Iraq first. It will form a transitional government. Some outside Iraqi opposition leaders, some people from inside Iraq to form that administration. But it says you cannot make those decisions until you know what the country looks like when the fighting is over - Lou.
DOBBS: OK. John, thank you very much. John King, or senior White House correspondent. More now on the latest military developments. Coalition aircraft have destroyed an Iraqi surface-to-surface missile launcher that was located near Basra. The launcher was blamed for most of the Iraqi missile attacks so far against Kuwait. I'm joined now from Kuwait City by our Wolf Blitzer.
Wolf, tell us more about the attack on that Iraqi missile launcher.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I can tell you, Lou, that U.S. military officers, top ones here in Kuwait, are very, very excited. They're very happy. Over the past week or so, there have been 10 or 11 of these Iraqi surface-to-surface missiles that have been launched at various targets here in Kuwait, mostly military targets. There's a lot of U.S. and British forces here. None of them have caused any damage, largely because those Patriot air defense missiles have worked. They've intercepted most of those missiles. The others have either gone harmlessly into the waters of the Persian Gulf or into the desert here in Kuwait.
Having said that, one of those launchers near Basra was seen as the primary launcher for those ground-to-ground missiles, and finally they've been looking desperately to try to find out where that launcher was. They found it today. A U.S. A-10 Thunderbolt went out and destroyed that launcher.
Now that doesn't mean there's not other launchers out there that can fire, the Al Samoud or some of these other short-range missiles into Kuwait, but they're feeling a lot better today that they found this one launcher.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Wolf, oil fires continue to burn in the Rumaylah fields in southern Iraq, about six, perhaps seven of those fires still. But we also learned today that some of the wellheads are booby-trapped. What can you tell us about the problems facing the firefighters?
BLITZER: Well, first of all, to put it into some sort of perspective, remember there are about 500 of these oil fields, these oil wells in southern Iraq. That represents most of Iraq's oil wells. There were nine that were burning, now there are six. They're concerned that of these six there potentially, there could be some problems. And there could be some problems elsewhere. But by and large they think they have the situation under control. They think that they have saved Iraq's oil well for the people of Iraq. And as a result, they're relatively relieved.
It's going to cause quite a bit of change, though, to make sure that all these oil fields and oil wells are secure and they're not booby-trapped. They're bringing in special units, special operations forces, experts to deal with this problem. But they think they'll get it under control.
DOBBS: Wolf, one British relief ship is standing by outside the port of Umm Qasr. More mines discovered. Can you bring us up to date? Has there been enough progress to clear the channel so that the port of Umm Qasr can be used by the relief efforts?
BLITZER: They had hoped it would be done yesterday. then they hoped it would be done today. They're hoping now for tomorrow. No guarantee that with daylight then, which is only a few hours from now, they're going to be able to do that. Apparently, the Iraqis laid a lot more sea mines in that area that had earlier been suspected. They've got a lot of sophisticated equipment and some not so sophisticated equipment, including some dolphins that they have brought in to look for those mines.
But they're keeping their fingers crossed. If they could open up that port of Umm Qasr by tomorrow, they think they can bring a lot of those humanitarian supplies in and make the lives of the Iraqi citizens, the civilians who live in the south near Basra and elsewhere, a little bit easier, because a humanitarian crisis is developing as a result of what's been going on these past several days.
DOBBS: Wolf Blitzer, thank you very much. Wolf Blitzer reporting from Kuwait City. Thanks, Wolf.
DOBBS: Coming up next, we'll have a live report for you from the USS Constellation in the Persian Gulf. Frank Buckley will have the latest for us on the coalition's air targets today in Iraq.
Also, we'll be joined by CNN military analyst General David Grange for more on the coalition's ground strategy. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Bombing runs continue tonight from the decks of the aircraft carrier USS Constellation as precision-guided bombs strike Republican Guard targets in and around Baghdad. Frank Buckley, photographer Greg Cains (ph) aboard the Constellation stationed in the Persian Gulf. And Frank joins us now by videophone - Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, we've been hearing the sound of the foghorn more than we've been hearing the sound of jets taking off from the USS Constellation. Yes, up on the flight deck, some aircraft have been launching. Others have been recovered during the night time hours. But some of that dust and sand that was prevalent over land has now moved west to east over the Persian Gulf itself, and that is hampering some of the flight operations here on the USS Constellation.
Still, as we say, the air war is continuing. aircraft are launching, and earlier today we talked to one of the pilots who flew over Iraq on a mission about his impressions of the dust storms and how it was affecting his mission. Here is a Captain Chris Collins (ph).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It causes problems when you're not dropping the J-weapons, you know, when we actually have to ID some of the targets out there. So when we can't see the ground, obviously, we can't see the target. So that plays a big factor when you're not dropping a GPS-guided weapon, which is what a lot of these targets of opportunity are out there. You know, a lot of them are maybe tanks on the move, artillery pieces that they're moving. And our job right now is go out and find those. And then once we find them, we'll go ahead and destroy them. But of course, we need to be able to see them before we can do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: But when he was talking about the J weapons, those are weapons like the J-DAM, for example, in which the pilot doesn't have to see the target that he's attacking. These are satellite-guided, GPS-guided weapons.
The exact coordinates need to be passed up to the pilot, who enters them, in flight if necessary, or on the ground or on the ship before they take off. They enter the coordinates into the weapon, they launch it, and can literally forget or fly away from the weapon as it moves towards its target. They don't need a laser designation. All they need are the correct GPS coordinates.
So even though the dust and the weather has hampered some of the flight operations, the air war does continue -- Lou.
DOBBS: Frank, thank you very much. Frank Buckley aboard the USS Constellation.
As we reported, coalition ground forces today face more fighting in Najaf and An Nasiriyah. The Pentagon said another 100,000 troops will be deployed into the theater next month.
Joining me now for more on ground operations and the advanced war at Baghdad, CNN military analyst General David Grange.
General, the advance on Baghdad is taking some shape, but it is doing so slowly. Give us your, if will you, your thoughts about a day in which it appears the principal conflict, combat was around Nasiriyah and not Baghdad.
GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Lou, I believe the units up north, the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines 1st Division -- the Marines 1st Division north of Nasiriyah, the 3rd Infantry Division up by Najuw (ph) were refitting, rearming, clearing out resistance on air movement north. I think the 3rd has already started moving again.
But down by Nasiriyah, they still have paramilitary forces that are being rooted out and killed or captured.
DOBBS: And the 100,000 troops coming in, as you and I have talked here on this broadcast, not only since this conflict began, but before, about the importance of a large number of troops.
This 100,000 that's coming in, that was all part of the original plan, this rotation. Is that correct? GRANGE: That's correct, Lou. The information I have seen, these units have had alert orders for quite awhile, to start training up, final preparations for movement, awaiting the movement order. Some of the stuff is on ships, their combat equipment en route or in harbors ready to be off loaded.
Troops boarding commercial and military aircraft to be flown over, to marry up with their combat equipment and weapons, to start moving out for their first missions wherever in Iraq.
DOBBS: The 4th Infantry, considered the elite in terms of the sophisticated technology and armament that it brings to bear. How soon do you think it can be in combat?
GRANGE: Well, once the equipment is married up with the soldiers, very rapidly. And I say that because these soldiers have already rehearsed at Ft. Hood. The equipment has already been maintained, prepared for combat.
So it's test drive, test fire helicopters and tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles. They're already at their peak of training readiness.
So it's a matter of moving in, probably maybe to the same assembly areas that the 3rd Infantry Division used when they arrived in the country. And so I think that part will go rather rapidly. Because it's been rehearsed so many times.
DOBBS: General, I know you commanded forces in the Balkans, in a number of other places, as well. But I'm principally focusing on the Balkans because of the nature of that conflict.
Now reports that the Iraqis are putting women and children in front of their own rifles in battle. How does a commander of a unit, a battalion, a company deal with that situation?
GRANGE: It's challenging. It's very tough.
I remember it very clearly in, for instance, in Bosnia, when women and children were put in front of mobs that were forced to riot with the threat of their house being burned down or children killed or whatever the case may be. And you can see in civilian clothes special police behind them, egging them on or working their radios. And a very difficult situation.
What will happen is they'll take -- the trainings they've prepared them for this will take over, because all of these forces in combat training centers have actually trained with civilians on the battlefield with these types of scenarios.
I remember in Germany, this was on every rotation, training rotation. You had civilians on the battlefield. You had military dressed in -- paramilitary dressed in civilian clothes. And so constant security, a lot of searching, a lot of detailed work.
DOBBS: General David Grange. Thank you, sir. GRANGE: My pleasure.
DOBBS: You are looking at live pictures of the night sky over Baghdad. There have just been reports of more explosions, and, of course, we will continue to watch and monitor over these pictures.
These pictures tonight are coming from Abu Dhabi Television and we want to point out, as you see there on the left hand corner of your screen, it's 2:35 in the morning. But explosions have just been heard again in Baghdad and we'll continue to watch that.
Fighting continues tonight around the town of Basra in southern Iraq. British troops are there, trying to conquer an enemy, trying to bring food and water at the same town -- same time to that town's citizens.
Christiane Amanpour has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): America and Britain again vowed to remove Saddam Hussein. And a British tank obliged with this symbolic display. That was just south of Basra, where the British say they are trying to wear down the Iraqi regime's military and political resistance and encourage the people to rise up.
But the only sign of civilian movement was dozens heading out of town. Trying to get away from the bombardment, seeking not just safe shelter, but food and water, too.
The British say they are fighting on two parallel tracks: one in heavy metal, the other on foot.
This is what the British call soft operations, military action aimed at counterinsurgency and trying to win hearts and minds.
(on camera) The British are setting up checkpoints all along this road from Basra, not only to secure the area militarily, but to also show the population that they are in control and to try to instill some confidence.
2ND LT. ANDY SHAND, BRITISH ARMY: Obviously, there is a hard line there. Militia, which is working in this area, to try and basically intimidate people and stop them speaking to us. So it's part of our role, one of our key roles is to make the civilian population feel safe. If they feel safe, they'll talk to us, we'll get intelligence, and obviously that's going to help us greatly.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): British soldiers tell us they have found ammunition and artillery rounds along the road, possibly to be used to ambush them.
But on this day, the Iraqis driving by are mostly good-natured and cooperate readily with the military searches.
Some wave white flags as they approach the checkpoints, and many tell us they are still afraid. They don't know exactly who's in charge yet. Others say they welcome the allies' arrival and Saddam's eventual departure.
But most of the people tell us they are hungry and thirsty. When soldiers asked to see inside these barrels, they found them filled not with weapons, but water, collected from the recent rainfall. And we watched these women scoop water from puddles on the ground.
Christiane Amanpour, CNN, on the road to Basra in southern Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Let's take a look now at the headlines at this hour.
Some of the strongest, biggest explosions of the week rocked Baghdad tonight, and there are reports of explosions in just the past few minutes. Massive explosions sent huge plumes of smoke rising above the city.
The strikes may have struck Iraq's international communications center. That site operates part of Iraq's telephone system. The air strikes are expected to intensify heading into the weekend.
New York City police scuffled with anti-war protesters today. Nearly 200 people were arrested after they lay down at major intersections and blocked traffic for about two hours. The protesters called it a die-in.
The media also came in for protester criticism, criticizing media for providing the protesters call biased coverage of the war.
Computer hackers today attacked the web site of the Al Jazeera network. Users who logged in found an American flag and a message: Let freedom ring.
Al Jazeera's had trouble running that site since it was launched yesterday, hackers apparently not liking some of the things that Al Jazeera has reported.
In other news, the mystery illness that began in Asia continues to spread. Fifty-three people have now died worldwide. More than 1,400 people have been infected. That's nearly a 4 percent mortality rate.
There are 51 suspected infections in this country, but there have been no fatalities. Researchers looking for a cause are focusing on a previously unknown virus.
Hong Kong has now quarantined 1,000 people and shut down it school system, as has Singapore.
On Wall Street today, stocks ended the day slightly lower, the Dow down 28, NASDAQ down 3 points.
Coming up next, the coalition air campaign resumes across Iraq as skies clear. General Don Shepperd will have a look at the latest targets. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coalition air strikes today took out an Iraqi surface-to- surface missile launcher in southern Iraq and continued the bombardment of Baghdad.
Joining me now is CNN military analyst General Don Shepperd.
General, this air campaign against Baghdad resuming with some greater intensity today. What do you make of it?
GEN. DON SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Lou, I take it that the strikes in downtown Baghdad were two types of strikes.
One of them was on the missile launchers, but that was yesterday. And then there was a strike supposedly on the ministry, the international -- the international communications center.
Now, I notice that the building still stands, and it appeared that the -- that the tower on top of the building was standing, leading me to believe that they may have gone to targets underneath or near that building, but not the building itself.
The Al Salaam palace was also struck again.
And then there was a question of whether or not the weapons that hit yesterday near the market were United States weapons or was it an Iraqi missile that hit in town. We're trying to sort all of that out, Lou.
DOBBS: General Brooks said today in Qatar at the briefing -- actually, yesterday -- that he didn't think that they would have an absolute resolution to that issue until they were actually in Baghdad.
SHEPPERD: I think that's a pretty good guess. The reports from the wires, the reporters there that were taken on a bus tour reported the craters from the weapons seemed to be much shallower than the other craters they had seen from United States bombs. That led me to believe that perhaps it was not a bomb dropped by the United States or even an errant missile that was hit.
But it's very hard to say until they actually get there, Lou.
DOBBS: General, amongst other senior Pentagon officials and obviously command officers, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld said that the Iraqi Republican Guard now rings Baghdad.
My question to you is, if that is the case, why isn't the Air Force, the air operations, taking them out?
SHEPPERD: All right. They're beginning to do that, Lou.
Now what the first part of the air campaign was to hit pre- planned targets, regime targets, concentrating on command bunkers communications facilities, that type of thing, in and around downtown Baghdad and across the country.
Now the weather came in, and they have started, after the weather breaks, to start hitting some of the deployed forces out in the field, Republican Guard forces ringing Baghdad.
Now, you will find, however, that many of these forces are embedded in villages, in populated areas. And so it's going to be very difficult and we're going to be very choosy about hitting those.
But the idea would be, the next phase of the air campaign would be to hit the Republican Guard forces around the country, and then they will likely retreat into Baghdad when the big battle comes, Lou.
DOBBS: There's a stark choice here, isn't there, General? The safety, the security of U.S. and coalition troops and the decision to avoid those targets because of rules of engagement.
SHEPPERD: It's the heart-wringing choice that every military man faces. You heard Dave Grange just talk about how soldiers deal with that. They train.
The harsh reality from the air is the airmen cannot see hostages being around a target. Someone else has to sort that out from -- for them. Occasionally, you might be able to zoom with some type of targeting device and see someone that would cause you to pull off and say, hey, I think there are civilians around this target.
But for the most part, those targets are pre-selected by someone else, and they will be told to strike those targets, and the weapons will be released. So any civilians that are around military equipment or military target are certainly at risk, Lou. It's one of the terrible things about war.
DOBBS: And we are starting to hear -- and we want to point out again, General, if I may, as we're looking at these live pictures from Baghdad provided by Abu Dhabi television, that there have been a series of explosions again. There were explosions just a few hours ago in Baghdad and now just a few moments ago. And we'll continue to monitor that.
General, we're hearing anecdotal evidence, if you will, comments from pilots, principally helicopter pilots, suggesting that the rules of engagement are starting to concern them a little bit in terms of providing safety and backup and support for the troops.
What do you -- what do you think is going to happen here to the rules of engagement?
SHEPPERD: I think it's very, very logical that soldiers are concerned, because I don't think anybody really expected the depth of resistance from the southern cities that have taken place. And of course, that's where the soldiers are.
When the soldiers are being fired at from a village, under original rules of engagement, we probably would have said don't fire at a village unless you absolutely have to. But now the frustration is setting and every village and every doorway becomes a target because people are firing at you from those windows.
So we're going to have to sort through this thing and see if the rules of engagement need to be adjusted. However, the rules of engagement always allow you to protect yourself if fired upon. They also require you to minimize civilian damage and civilian casualties whenever possible.
The harsh reality is the man with the gun in his hand, the man driving the tank, the woman driving the tank or with the gun in the hand have to decide whether or not to pull the trigger, and that's one of the harsh realities of war, Lou.
DOBBS: General, thank you very much. General Don Shepperd.
Coming up next here, the pressure is on the United Nations to resume its food for oil program in Iraq, to help Iraqi civilians who desperately need that help.
Peter Viles will have a special report on how that program has helped keep Saddam Hussein in power and in the case of food for oil, in a business partnership with the United Nations.
Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When the B-52s started dropping those bombs, could you hear the bombs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
RODGERS: We're hearing incoming. We're not sure what it is. We see some stuff in the sky. We may have to break this off. I think we're going to break off this live shot for the time being. We're not sure what we see up there.
Good-bye. We've got to dive for vehicles, we think. See you. Bye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wasn't really scared through the whole thing. It was more of -- at first it was more of a shock, if anything.
I was real relieved to find that they all reacted that the way we would in training, the way that all of us are trained. It's -- We having been taught and talked about it, we figured out that getting shot at really wasn't that bad. It was just the getting shot part that really sucked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: An imperative to provide humanitarian relief and aid to civilian Iraqis. President Bush, Prime Minister Blair today pressuring the United Nations to quickly restart the Oil-for-Food Program in Iraq to provide that aid.
Just moments ago, Prime Minister Tony Blair began his meetings with United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan. As the two men met at United Nations headquarters in New York, these pictures of the two men meeting. before beginning their meeting, just about -- just about 15 minutes ago.
Now, the Oil-for-Food Program is certainly a controversial program. It's actually played a role in helping Saddam Hussein stay in power.
Peter Viles has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president acknowledging the United Nations still has a role to play in Iraq.
BUSH: The prime minister and I also urged the United Nations to immediately resume the Oil-for-Food Program.
VILES: What the president did not say is that the Oil-for-Food Program was a mess before the war and is in even worse shape now.
The United Nations itself does not distribute food in most of Iraq and never did. And you cannot feed 14 million people from the backs of trucks.
DENIS HALLIDAY, FORMER ASST. U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Until hostilities themselves stop, the obligation and the capacity for the U.N. system is not there. And the U.N. system, let's face it, has never run Oil-for-Food. This has always been run by the Iraqi government.
VILES: This is the dirty little secret of Oil-for-Food: 59 percent of the money runs through Saddam Hussein's government. Tens of thousands of his agents deliver the food in central and southern Iraq, where it is most needed today.
Independent analysts, such as the Coalition for International Justice, say Saddam has used the program to punish enemies and reward friends, both inside and outside Iraq. His people are fed, but 60 percent of them rely on handouts.
ANDREW NATSIOS, U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATINAL DEVELOPMENT: Iraq is a potentially very wealthy country, and its oil has not been used for the people of Iraq. It's been used to buy weapons systems and weapons of mass destruction.
VILES: Emergency measures backed by the United States would give the U.N. and Kofi Annan broad new powers to rush food and water directly to Iraq, without Saddam's involvement. (END VIDEOTAPE)
Late word tonight from the German ambassador to the United Nations that a compromise has been reached to reopen the program under those terms. Kofi Annan now in charge, no involvement for the government in Baghdad. The German ambassador telling CNN there will be a vote tomorrow to reopen the Oil-for-Food program.
DOBBS: This will be a temporary, 45 days.
VILES: We believe it's 45, yes.
DOBBS: OK. And the French continued -- continue to resist this.
VILES: They were resisting here. What the French did not want was anything in the language that might show some U.N. support for the war in Iraq.
DOBBS: And the Germans stepping forward, at least in this instance, in the interest of humanitarian aid.
Thank you very much, Peter Viles.
We have more explosions to tell you about. These have just come. This is now the second set of explosions that we've heard in the course of the past hour in Baghdad -- near Baghdad, or certainly on the outskirts. The pictures revealing none of this, obviously, at this particular moment.
And this follows, earlier today, I'm going to judge, just about seven hours ago, a very heavy bombardment, in which the international communications center in Baghdad, also on the western side of the Tigris in that complex of government buildings and Saddam Hussein's palaces, that was the target of the bombing today.
And we will, obviously, continue to monitor it.
Well, coming up here next, Americans here, believe it or not, spend $100 million a month on French wine. But there are some new signs that that number is dropping.
Bill Tucker will have a special report on a growing consumer backlash against all things French.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Opposition of Jacques Chirac to the coalition's war against Saddam Hussein has left many Americans with hard feelings, apparently. Impromptu boycotts of French products have spread across the United States and show some signs of picking up.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't need your stinking wine.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: French wine sales are not exactly going down the drain, but they are lower. Distributors on the East and West Coast report sales are down roughly 8 percent in the past month.
Le Bernandin, a French restaurant in New York, says business has held up but admits some customers have decided to take their business elsewhere.
ERIC RIPERT, CO-OWNER AND CHEF, LE BERNANDIN: It's very difficult to quantify the percentage of people who are supporting French restaurants or not because I guess the majority of them do not call. But we have received a couple of calls of people canceling parties because we were French.
VILES: And they've added variety to their cheese menu so that there is more than just French to choose from.
One Web site, Metrospy.com is actively encouraging a boycott of all things French: wine, cheese, and stocks. And provides a list of alternative choices.
In Montana, the state pension fund system is taking such boycotts to heart. The fund sold off $14.5 million in French stock, including France's largest bank, BNP Paribas, and its largest oil company, TotaleFina.
The fund managers worried about a backlash against French companies and concern that the French position could hurt French companies in a post-war reconstruction of Iraq.
It's not a mad move, considering that the worst performing big oil stock this year is TotaleFina, which is down 10 percent so far, three percent of those losses coming in the last week since the start of the war in Iraq.
Bill Tucker, CNN Financial News, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Joining us once again, senior military analysts, General David Grange, General Don Shepperd.
Gentlemen, give us, if you will, your best assessment of this period of rest, if I can call it that. I'm sure you can provide the military term. But it looks like there's some rest here. And what we can expect over the next day or so.
GRANGE: Well, Lou, -- Lou I believe that the 3rd Infantry Division, the 1st Marine division, they're tired, but they've been refitting, refueling, ammunition, planning, maintenance on vehicles, and getting ready for the next phase, which part of it's already started, I believe. It doesn't mean they're going into Baghdad, but continue to focus on Republican Guard divisions around Baghdad. DOBBS: And, Don, the issue here -- I'm going to come back to it -- is it your judgment that we're going to see heavy air strikes that will make the job of the -- of those ground forces easier in striking the armor of the Republican Guard?
SHEPPERD: Yes, Lou. They're going to try to decimate the Republican Guard wherever it's deployed in the field. They're going to hit emerging targets in Baghdad and elsewhere.
No matter what they do with air, the job of the ground folks is not going to be easy. They're going to have to deal with what's in front of them, what's left, and they're also going to have to clean up behind them, as we've seen, Lou.
DOBBS: Is it your expectations -- and I'll ask you first, General Grange, and then you, if I may, General Shepperd. Is it your sense that the siege of Baghdad won't begin for another week or so?
GRANGE: I don't see the siege starting any time soon. And I'm not sure why you'd want to do that, go right into Baghdad.
I think you're going to see a lot of combat operations around Baghdad. There's still Tikrit that the coalition forces have to deal with.
It will be interesting to see how the 4th Infantry Division's mission plays out. I'm sure the first mission is going to be move north fast. But what are they going to do? Relieve the 3rd Infantry Division, go after Tikrit? It's hard to say.
DOBBS: General Shepperd.
SHEPPERD: Yes, I agree with that. I don't think you're going to see any kind of headlong rush into Baghdad by the coalition forces. That would be imprudent.
You will see consolidation behind the forces back there, you will see rest and replenishment. You'll see air decimation of the Republican Guard deployed forces and robusting (sic) of the northern front.
In addition, other forces are closing from the United States. All of that's going to take some time. So I think we're a ways away from Baghdad, Lou.
DOBBS: General Don Shepperd, General David Grange, gentlemen, as always, thank you very much.
And over the course of this past hour, at least two series of strikes against Baghdad.
Aaron Brown and Wolf Blitzer will be coming up next. They'll be followed by Larry King,
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