Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live At Daybreak

Update on War Effort from Gen. David Grange

Aired March 28, 2003 - 05:50   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, there has been a lot going on the last several hours in, on the ground in Iraq, both in northern Iraq, down in Basra, around Najaf, all over the country. We're going to get an update from CNN's Renay San Miguel and CNN military analyst General David Grange.
Welcome.

RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Anderson.

Yes, we're going to start off with the activity over Baghdad, some of the busiest in the war since the war began.

Joining us is Retired Army General David Grange.

And let's go ahead and talk about the -- show some satellite imagery provided by Earthviewer.com and Digital Globe talking about the exact location of this target here, Iraq's international communications center, which operates Iraq's phone system, according to the coalition, was targeted in these strikes that happened late Thursday. We're going to zoom in on it and give you a closer idea of what we're talking about.

The coalition or the Central Command is calling this a major link in the national communications -- in Iraq's national communications.

General, they called this a command and control target. After eight days of bombing, a lot of viewers might be wondering if there's anything left of command and control, but apparently there is.

BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, there's always going to be some type of command and control left until the enemy forces are totally eliminated or they capitulate. It may be rudimentary command and control, it may be very sophisticated. But there's always command and control, primary means, and there's always a redundant means. And what's happened is they continue to dig deeper and deeper and deeper underground from lessons learns from Western air strikes in the past. And so that's what you see here.

SAN MIGUEL: And so talking about deeper and deeper underground, to use that to get to that command and control, they use the 4,500 pound GBU-37 dropped by a B-2 Stealth bomber, the bunker buster. We have some animation. You know, that, you spoke exactly to the need for this. There must be something deep, deep underground that they wanted to get at.

GRANGE: Right. And what you're going to see in a conflict like this is the continuous use of development in munitions, in other words, munitions adapted to the type of targets from the enemy adapted to previous attacks.

SAN MIGUEL: OK.

GRANGE: And that, and over the years, and in this case even during the war, you're going to see probably some new methods of engagement.

SAN MIGUEL: Part of the chess match that goes on between generals and armies here.

And I wanted to get your response to something that the information minister from Iraq alleged just about an hour ago during their press briefing, alleging that the coalition is targeting, is specifically targeting, purposely targeting buildings with civilians. Now, if the coalition were going to do that, why not just carpet bomb Baghdad? Why not just unload a bunch of bunker busters indiscriminately?

GRANGE: Well, that's right. I don't think that's the case. And remember, you have to win the information war as well as the war on the ground. And so I would, I don't think that's true.

SAN MIGUEL: OK, the idea of just, you know, being specific about not targeting civilian populations?

GRANGE: Absolutely.

SAN MIGUEL: Which is what the coalition has said all along.

Let's come back to the map table and show some other activity that's been going on here over the last 12 to 24 hours. We were talking -- there's also some strikes up near the north near Mosul, you know, trying to really establish the coalition beachhead, if you will, in the northern part of the country.

GRANGE: Right. And there's some limits and advances, too, by ground forces of Kurdish militaries. Although they're limited, a great morale boost for the forces of the north.

SAN MIGUEL: And we have also seen also some ideas, also some activity around Najaf, Nasiriya and then in Basra, some very disturbing reports coming out of there that the Iraqi troops are firing mortars upon civilians trying to leave the city there.

GRANGE: Still manipulating civilians in a war effort.

SAN MIGUEL: Got you.

David Grange, we'll be talking with you later.

Thanks so much for joining us -- Anderson, Carol, back over to you.

COSTELLO: All right, thanks very much. Renay San Miguel along with General Grange.

We want to take you live now to central Iraq, with Jason Bellini, who is embedded with the Marines. And you have been on the move this morning -- Jason, are you with us?

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... port area of Umm Qasr.

I'm with you.

COSTELLO: OK, where are you now -- well, tell us if you can where you are. BELLINI: Well, we can't be too specific (AUDIO GAP) we're now in control (AUDIO GAP). The Marines we're with are very, are an infantry Marines. They were some of the first (AUDIO GAP) into Iraq when all of this started. They went first to Umm Qasr and they, I know there's been a lot of news from there. They were there and they helped clear up that area, make it safe for humanitarian relief to enter the country.

Now, they appear on a new mission reflects that, where this war is going, that they're needed up for missions closer to the central part of this country.

Now, yesterday, Carol, I had the opportunity to meet an Iraqi doctor -- and this was a very rare opportunity to actually meet an Iraqi because we're with the Marines and you can't really go out on your own and talk to people.

So we met him just (AUDIO GAP) where these Marines were protecting. (AUDIO GAP) We were able to ask him for the first (AUDIO GAP)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BELLINI (voice-over): ... injured Iraqis hit by coalition shrapnel lay gravely wounded inside the U.N. compound in Umm Qasr, now under the control of U.S. Marines.

DR. WAEL JASEIN: He passing about three pints of blood within two days. Within two days, within two days inside our hospital and we have no facilities to save him.

BELLINI: Dr. Wael Jasein (ph) brought his patients by ambulance to the Marines at the U.N. because he didn't know what else to do, could offer them no further help from his hospital.

JASEIN: They promised me. They promised me and I'm for, this is the fifth hour I'm waiting for their promise.

BELLINI: The promise of help is not one he's confident the forces invading his country will keep.

JASEIN: The Americans say that they will bring food, medicines and supplies and freedom. But we find missiles. We find people who are wounded.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a medical vehicle with lights on.

BELLINI: Innocent Iraqis wounded, he says, in crossfire between coalition forces and the Iraqis attacking them from within civilian populated areas. The Marines we're with say theirs is a humanitarian mission, but they're forced to fight to make the area secure for relief to arrive.

(on camera): Do you believe them? In your heart, do you think that they're here to help you?

JASEIN: In my heart? No. In my heart I don't believe anything now. BELLINI: So they're going to come in...

(voice-over): Just moments after our civilians, a Marine medic arrived.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But they're going to grab the wounded and take them to a hospital...

JASEIN: Now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in Kuwait.

JASEIN: Thank you. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK) BELLINI (on camera): What do you think?

JASEIN: Thank you. BELLINI: Do you feel better?

JASEIN: What? BELLINI: Do you feel better?

JASEIN: Well, I feel better because they will seek (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Everyone gives me any help, I'm so gratefully thankful for him. BELLINI (voice-over): Not 30 minutes later, another casualty arrived, this one brought by the British Royal Marines.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to stay back. You know what? We don't want this to be seen, all right? You need to stay back. BELLINI (on camera): You don't have a choice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I do.

BELLINI (voice-over): After explaining I had permission from the commander to be here, I was allowed to resume taking pictures. This man, I'm told, will likely die. His intestines ripped from his abdomen by shrapnel. American and British medics will try to save him, they say, as if he were one of their own. I asked Dr. Jasein's patient if there's anything he'd want to say to people watching this.

JASEIN: He said that I can't say to American people only something, one word, that we are people seeking for peace, seeking for life, justice. BELLINI: The coalition says that is what they're seeking, life, peace for the Iraqi people. But first, they need the Iraqis' trust.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: That's Jason Bellini reporting -- of course, we lost his live picture -- from central Iraq. But that doctor has moved on.

COOPER: Right.

COSTELLO: The Marines are not with them right now. But, you know, it's a hard thing for them because these people drive up in ambulances and drive up in just civilian cars and the Marines don't really know who is inside. So it's a dicey operation for them, as well.

COOPER: And we've been hearing so much this morning from our various reporters about the difficulty that not only the Marines, but soldiers across Iraq are having trying to figure out who is a civilian, who is one of these paramilitary fighters in civilian clothes. It's a difficult situation. That report was from Umm Qasr. Jason saying he moved on to central Iraq, but that -- and Umm Qasr is going to be the focus of a lot in our next hour.

Let's take a look at the headlines at this hour.

COSTELLO: It is six o'clock Eastern time.

Baghdad suffered one of the heaviest nights of bombing to date. Among the ordinance dropped were two so-called bunker busters on a communications site. At least one of the bombs, a GBU-37, weighed more than two tons.

A British ship laden with food and aid is due any time now in the tiny port of Umm Qasr. The Sir Galahad had some 200 tons of emergency rations, water and medical supplies for Iraqi civilians. Mines first had to be cleared from the waterway and that delayed the ship's arrival by several days.

Al Jazeera TV showed these pictures of a British drone that went down near Basra on Tuesday.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 28, 2003 - 05:50   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, there has been a lot going on the last several hours in, on the ground in Iraq, both in northern Iraq, down in Basra, around Najaf, all over the country. We're going to get an update from CNN's Renay San Miguel and CNN military analyst General David Grange.
Welcome.

RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Anderson.

Yes, we're going to start off with the activity over Baghdad, some of the busiest in the war since the war began.

Joining us is Retired Army General David Grange.

And let's go ahead and talk about the -- show some satellite imagery provided by Earthviewer.com and Digital Globe talking about the exact location of this target here, Iraq's international communications center, which operates Iraq's phone system, according to the coalition, was targeted in these strikes that happened late Thursday. We're going to zoom in on it and give you a closer idea of what we're talking about.

The coalition or the Central Command is calling this a major link in the national communications -- in Iraq's national communications.

General, they called this a command and control target. After eight days of bombing, a lot of viewers might be wondering if there's anything left of command and control, but apparently there is.

BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, there's always going to be some type of command and control left until the enemy forces are totally eliminated or they capitulate. It may be rudimentary command and control, it may be very sophisticated. But there's always command and control, primary means, and there's always a redundant means. And what's happened is they continue to dig deeper and deeper and deeper underground from lessons learns from Western air strikes in the past. And so that's what you see here.

SAN MIGUEL: And so talking about deeper and deeper underground, to use that to get to that command and control, they use the 4,500 pound GBU-37 dropped by a B-2 Stealth bomber, the bunker buster. We have some animation. You know, that, you spoke exactly to the need for this. There must be something deep, deep underground that they wanted to get at.

GRANGE: Right. And what you're going to see in a conflict like this is the continuous use of development in munitions, in other words, munitions adapted to the type of targets from the enemy adapted to previous attacks.

SAN MIGUEL: OK.

GRANGE: And that, and over the years, and in this case even during the war, you're going to see probably some new methods of engagement.

SAN MIGUEL: Part of the chess match that goes on between generals and armies here.

And I wanted to get your response to something that the information minister from Iraq alleged just about an hour ago during their press briefing, alleging that the coalition is targeting, is specifically targeting, purposely targeting buildings with civilians. Now, if the coalition were going to do that, why not just carpet bomb Baghdad? Why not just unload a bunch of bunker busters indiscriminately?

GRANGE: Well, that's right. I don't think that's the case. And remember, you have to win the information war as well as the war on the ground. And so I would, I don't think that's true.

SAN MIGUEL: OK, the idea of just, you know, being specific about not targeting civilian populations?

GRANGE: Absolutely.

SAN MIGUEL: Which is what the coalition has said all along.

Let's come back to the map table and show some other activity that's been going on here over the last 12 to 24 hours. We were talking -- there's also some strikes up near the north near Mosul, you know, trying to really establish the coalition beachhead, if you will, in the northern part of the country.

GRANGE: Right. And there's some limits and advances, too, by ground forces of Kurdish militaries. Although they're limited, a great morale boost for the forces of the north.

SAN MIGUEL: And we have also seen also some ideas, also some activity around Najaf, Nasiriya and then in Basra, some very disturbing reports coming out of there that the Iraqi troops are firing mortars upon civilians trying to leave the city there.

GRANGE: Still manipulating civilians in a war effort.

SAN MIGUEL: Got you.

David Grange, we'll be talking with you later.

Thanks so much for joining us -- Anderson, Carol, back over to you.

COSTELLO: All right, thanks very much. Renay San Miguel along with General Grange.

We want to take you live now to central Iraq, with Jason Bellini, who is embedded with the Marines. And you have been on the move this morning -- Jason, are you with us?

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... port area of Umm Qasr.

I'm with you.

COSTELLO: OK, where are you now -- well, tell us if you can where you are. BELLINI: Well, we can't be too specific (AUDIO GAP) we're now in control (AUDIO GAP). The Marines we're with are very, are an infantry Marines. They were some of the first (AUDIO GAP) into Iraq when all of this started. They went first to Umm Qasr and they, I know there's been a lot of news from there. They were there and they helped clear up that area, make it safe for humanitarian relief to enter the country.

Now, they appear on a new mission reflects that, where this war is going, that they're needed up for missions closer to the central part of this country.

Now, yesterday, Carol, I had the opportunity to meet an Iraqi doctor -- and this was a very rare opportunity to actually meet an Iraqi because we're with the Marines and you can't really go out on your own and talk to people.

So we met him just (AUDIO GAP) where these Marines were protecting. (AUDIO GAP) We were able to ask him for the first (AUDIO GAP)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BELLINI (voice-over): ... injured Iraqis hit by coalition shrapnel lay gravely wounded inside the U.N. compound in Umm Qasr, now under the control of U.S. Marines.

DR. WAEL JASEIN: He passing about three pints of blood within two days. Within two days, within two days inside our hospital and we have no facilities to save him.

BELLINI: Dr. Wael Jasein (ph) brought his patients by ambulance to the Marines at the U.N. because he didn't know what else to do, could offer them no further help from his hospital.

JASEIN: They promised me. They promised me and I'm for, this is the fifth hour I'm waiting for their promise.

BELLINI: The promise of help is not one he's confident the forces invading his country will keep.

JASEIN: The Americans say that they will bring food, medicines and supplies and freedom. But we find missiles. We find people who are wounded.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a medical vehicle with lights on.

BELLINI: Innocent Iraqis wounded, he says, in crossfire between coalition forces and the Iraqis attacking them from within civilian populated areas. The Marines we're with say theirs is a humanitarian mission, but they're forced to fight to make the area secure for relief to arrive.

(on camera): Do you believe them? In your heart, do you think that they're here to help you?

JASEIN: In my heart? No. In my heart I don't believe anything now. BELLINI: So they're going to come in...

(voice-over): Just moments after our civilians, a Marine medic arrived.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But they're going to grab the wounded and take them to a hospital...

JASEIN: Now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in Kuwait.

JASEIN: Thank you. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK) BELLINI (on camera): What do you think?

JASEIN: Thank you. BELLINI: Do you feel better?

JASEIN: What? BELLINI: Do you feel better?

JASEIN: Well, I feel better because they will seek (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Everyone gives me any help, I'm so gratefully thankful for him. BELLINI (voice-over): Not 30 minutes later, another casualty arrived, this one brought by the British Royal Marines.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to stay back. You know what? We don't want this to be seen, all right? You need to stay back. BELLINI (on camera): You don't have a choice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I do.

BELLINI (voice-over): After explaining I had permission from the commander to be here, I was allowed to resume taking pictures. This man, I'm told, will likely die. His intestines ripped from his abdomen by shrapnel. American and British medics will try to save him, they say, as if he were one of their own. I asked Dr. Jasein's patient if there's anything he'd want to say to people watching this.

JASEIN: He said that I can't say to American people only something, one word, that we are people seeking for peace, seeking for life, justice. BELLINI: The coalition says that is what they're seeking, life, peace for the Iraqi people. But first, they need the Iraqis' trust.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: That's Jason Bellini reporting -- of course, we lost his live picture -- from central Iraq. But that doctor has moved on.

COOPER: Right.

COSTELLO: The Marines are not with them right now. But, you know, it's a hard thing for them because these people drive up in ambulances and drive up in just civilian cars and the Marines don't really know who is inside. So it's a dicey operation for them, as well.

COOPER: And we've been hearing so much this morning from our various reporters about the difficulty that not only the Marines, but soldiers across Iraq are having trying to figure out who is a civilian, who is one of these paramilitary fighters in civilian clothes. It's a difficult situation. That report was from Umm Qasr. Jason saying he moved on to central Iraq, but that -- and Umm Qasr is going to be the focus of a lot in our next hour.

Let's take a look at the headlines at this hour.

COSTELLO: It is six o'clock Eastern time.

Baghdad suffered one of the heaviest nights of bombing to date. Among the ordinance dropped were two so-called bunker busters on a communications site. At least one of the bombs, a GBU-37, weighed more than two tons.

A British ship laden with food and aid is due any time now in the tiny port of Umm Qasr. The Sir Galahad had some 200 tons of emergency rations, water and medical supplies for Iraqi civilians. Mines first had to be cleared from the waterway and that delayed the ship's arrival by several days.

Al Jazeera TV showed these pictures of a British drone that went down near Basra on Tuesday.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com