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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
Missile Hits Kuwait City
Aired March 28, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: A number of major developments tonight in the war against Saddam Hussein. A huge explosion, as Wolf Blitzer has just reported, in the center of Kuwait City. Kuwaiti authorities say it was a missile strike. Wolf Blitzer will have the very latest for us.
Also today, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld raising troubling new concerns and issues, telling Syria and Iran to stay out of the war against Saddam Hussein. The secretary of defense said Syrian military shipments to Iraq are -- quote -- "a hostile act." And over this coming hour, we'll focus as well on the latest steps in the military campaign. Battlefield reports, the logistical challenge of supplying our troops, and war, politics, and the media.
There was another big strike as well against Baghdad tonight. It appeared the Ministry of Information was hit again by very heavy ordnance. General Don Shepperd will join us with his assessment of the bombing campaign on the Iraqi capital.
Military officials say coalition air strikes on the Medina Republican Guard division have reduced its effectiveness by a third. Tonight, Apache helicopters from the 101st Airborne Division carrying out their first long-range assault into Iraq. Our reporters will have action reports from the battlefields in northern and southern Iraq.
Three Marine battalions are fighting to win control of the town of Nasiriya. Commanders say they are very close to securing the city, but another four Marines were reported killed. Alessio Vinci will have a report from the front lines in Nasiriya.
More than 1,000 Iraqi civilians who tried to escape from Basra were shelled and machine gunned by Iraqi forces today. British troops tried to protect the civilians, in fact, interposed themselves between the Iraqis firing on the civilians. Diana Muriel will have the story for us. She's with the British forces in southern Iraq.
And a British supply ship has finally arrived at the port of Umm Qasr in southern Iraq, carrying 200 tons of humanitarian aid for Iraqi civilians. Christiane Amanpour to have the report.
(NEWS ALERT)
DOBBS: There was a huge explosion in Kuwait City tonight. The Kuwaiti authorities, at least initially, have confirmed that the city was hit by a missile. Joining me now from Kuwait City is our Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf, what more do we know about this attack? WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, we're getting indications now it hit a shopping mall here in Kuwait City, a shopping mall called the Souq Sharq. That is a very popular mall here in Kuwait City. We don't know precisely the extent of the damage. We're beginning to get all those first reports. But I can tell you from personal experience, having lived through this explosion about a half hour, 45 minutes or so ago, I heard a loud thud, a loud explosion, and then within a few seconds after that, we began to see billowing smoke come up over the skyline over Kuwait City.
Now Kuwait authorities are telling us that it was, in fact, a missile that hit this area, this mall, this shopping mall in Kuwait City. We're beginning to -- we're attempting to get confirmation of that. If it was a missile, it would be the first time over the past week that a missile did, in fact, hit a target, cause some damage here in Kuwait, because all of the other dozen or so missiles that have been launched from Iraq by Iraqis have either intercepted by Patriot anti-aircraft, air defense missiles, or they've fallen harmlessly into the waters or the desert.
If, in fact, this was an Iraqi missile, it did successfully hit a commercial area, this shopping mall, the Sharq -- it is called Souq Sharq here in Kuwait City, and as I can say, it caused a huge explosion. Don't know the extent of damage. The only thing I can say is it's the middle of the night here, it is after 2:00 a.m. now, so presumably, the Sharq mall was pretty empty in the middle of the night, stores closed.
So presumably wouldn't cause too many civilian casualties, but once again, I can hear the fire engines, I can hear the sirens going off from police cars.
There was no warning in advance, Lou. No warning whatsoever. Almost every other time that a missile has been launched against Kuwait, we heard the air raid sirens go off, people went into the underground bunkers, some, in fact, started to put on their protective gear. Certainly that was the case at U.S. bases up in the northern part of Kuwait. But in this particular case, we heard nothing. No air raid siren, no advanced warning. The first indication that there was a problem was the actual explosion that apparently has rocked this shopping mall here in center city in downtown Kuwait City -- Lou.
DOBBS: Wolf, you're located very near the port of Kuwait, the famous spires of Kuwait City just beyond your position there. How far would you judge the distance to be between yourself and the impact area?
BLITZER: I would say it's a good at least two miles or so from where I am right now. I can certainly see the smoke billowing up, and I certainly heard it, but I'm a good distance away from that -- from where that explosion occurred at that mall.
That shopping mall -- as I say, Lou, it's a very popular mall. People go there, a lot of U.S. stores, chain stores there. It's like a mall like almost any mall you would find in the United States. Major department stores, as well as a lot of smaller boutique shops, fast food restaurants. It's a mall. It's an American-style mall, and that Souq Sharq, as it is called, souq means marketplace in Arabic, is a very, very popular place. That was in fact -- the explosion occurred at that shopping mall.
We're not a hundred percent convinced yet it is a missile. That's what Kuwaiti authorities are telling us, but in the meantime, we'll wait for more definitive word and get some indication from not only Kuwaiti authorities, but U.S. military authorities who are here on the scene as well. As you know, the United States has been trying to protect Kuwait in this current war with Iraq. The Iraqi government, of course, targeting Kuwait, given Kuwait's strong support for the United States and Britain in the war.
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much. Wolf, we will be coming back to you as you learn more details about what appears to be a -- an attack, a missile attack against Kuwait City. But again, those are initial reports as Wolf has underlined and stressed here, and we'll be obviously working to gain more details as quickly as possible.
Coalition forces tonight launched another strike against Baghdad, and it was a bombardment, a huge explosion in the city center. It appeared the Ministry of Information was hit by a coalition missile or bomb. Joining me now for more on this air campaign is our CNN military analyst, General Don Shepperd. General, that's an extraordinary explosion that we just saw earlier in Baghdad today. What do you -- was that an unusual ordnance, in your judgment?
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Not an unusual ordnance, Lou. It appeared to me to be either a surface explosion of a 2,000 pound bomb, which we've seen all along, or perhaps a 5,000 pound bomb. That is what we call a "deep digger" or "penetrator" that goes beneath the ground. But it was definitely a large explosion, and appeared directed at this ministry of information -- Lou.
DOBBS: And the strike target apparently, again, communications centers. It's taken awhile, in the judgment of some, for the coalition to attack those communications targets. Why now, do you think?
SHEPPERD: Well, I think early on, they were watching and trying to get intelligence from them, to see particularly after the original leadership strike, to see who was still alive. Now they are beginning to attack them from a coalition standpoint, and they're very difficult to put down all the means of communication. You have numerous sites located around the city that can pop up, and also you can put them into mobile trucks, although they won't have the range that our normal television does on top of buildings. They are a very difficult target, and you just have to keep hitting them -- Lou.
DOBBS: General, I'm going to interrupt you. We're going to go back to Kuwait City. General, if I may ask you to stand by with us, we're going to go to the impact site of what appears to have been a missile strike against Kuwait City, and our Sanjay Gupta is on the scene there. Sanjay, can you hear me?
General Shepperd, obviously we have not quite got communications linked up with Sanjay Gupta, who is on the scene now. And as soon as we do, we're going to go back to him. Again, to repeat, apparently a missile has struck the center of Kuwait City just about -- just about a half hour ago. We do not know whether there have been injuries. We do not know in fact that it was a missile, but those are the early reports. There were no air raid sirens, as Wolf Blitzer reported. But authorities, Kuwaiti authorities, saying that it was a missile strike. So we will be going to Sanjay Gupta on the scene, Wolf Blitzer in Kuwait City, just as soon as we establish communications there.
General Shepperd, I want to turn back to you and turn from now Baghdad to Kuwait City. The Patriot missile system to this point had appeared to be perfect, striking incoming missiles that had been launched against Kuwait City. What do you make of what has happened here tonight?
SHEPPERD: Yes. A couple of possibilities here, Lou. Remember, it's supposedly been 12 for 12 so far. Evidently, the system missed this, if indeed it is as reported. Now, remember, these missile launch warnings go by satellite to Colorado Springs. The NORAD Command Center there, and are relayed to the theater. Also, you can have Patriot missile Radars watching for them as well as other Radars in the theater.
DOBBS: General -- I am told -- I apologize again. I am told that we now do have a communications link with Sanjay Gupta in Kuwait City at the impact area from that missile strike. We'll try it again -- Sanjay, can you hear me? Sanjay?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I can hear you. We are standing here, just underneath the sort of portico of a large shopping mall in Kuwait City. There had been some -- there was a loud explosion, as you know, and some smoke several minutes ago, maybe half an hour ago now. What appears to have happened here is an explosion from the ground. This does not appear to be an explosion that came from something from the air.
Again, this does not appear to be a missile, but rather an explosion -- maybe even a (AUDIO GAP) that was parked under the portico. There's lots of debris, glass blown (ph) around. The actual structure of this portico, which is supported by very, very thick concrete walls, appears to have been significantly damaged, along with all of the light fixtures all around this very, very significant explosion. There's debris scattered for hundreds of meters.
People are immediately starting to run now. I don't know why. There's been a concern about gas, obviously, around here. We are all running now. Sirens are going off. I'm not exactly sure. People are getting -- keeping their distance now from the site. We're obviously going to try and figure out why that was as well.
But again, it does appear to be, maybe, a bomb of some sort. Maybe a car bomb, although I cannot find the charred remains of a car close by. We are going to continue to look for that, but such a significant explosion, things have been thrown literally all over the place here. No one seems to be hurt, as far as I can tell. There are not ambulances rushing up. Most of the vehicles are standing by, it seems, at this time -- back to you.
DOBBS: Sanjay, no apparent injuries as a result of this strike. You said it -- you appear -- it appears to you that the strike -- OK. I understand that we have lost Sanjay. We are going to go back to him just as soon as we can bring those communications links back.
General Shepperd, you just heard Sanjay Gupta say it appeared to him that this explosion originated on the ground rather than as a result of a missile, and I presume that is because, as he reported, he's beneath a portico, and that seems to be, based on his initial report, the -- if you will, the epicenter of the explosion.
What do you make of that?
SHEPPERD: Well, it's making a little more sense to me now, Lou, if indeed these reports are correct. Remember, the air raid warning system in Kuwait has been very robust and very accurate. The Patriot missiles have been very accurate. This without an air raid warning could have been a terrorist attack, and when you have a terrorist attack you see those people running. The immediate thing you think about is if you close in on the initial explosion, there may be other bombs planted around, satchel bombs or car bombs in the area to injure people that come to the site.
Further, remember a couple of weeks ago, we had a natural gas explosion in downtown Doha, Qatar, and this could be the same thing. We are still searching and trying to sort through it -- Lou.
DOBBS: OK. And General Don Shepperd will be back with us later in this broadcast as we assess a number of developments today in both Iraq and now, in the course of the past 45 minutes, Kuwait City. General Shepperd, thank -- we're going to turn now to our reporter Ryan Chilcote with the 101st Airborne Division and -- I'm told now that we're going to go -- we have resumed our communication link with Sanjay Gupta.
Sanjay, can you hear me?
GUPTA: Yes.
DOBBS: Sanjay, can you tell us any more? Have you moved farther away from the explosion site?
GUPTA: Yes, I have moved further away, as did everybody else. Again, Lou, this was sort of a -- it's an interesting situation. I was looking immediately over here to see if there was some evidence, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) about maybe 500 meters away, and I'm just stepping on shrapnel and glass even this far away now.
Anyway, I was looking for any evidence that this may have come from the sky versus the ground. Again, the top structure of this large, very large, very Western-looking shopping mall, just like any mall that people might see back in the United States, it appears to be relatively intact.
I am talking to a eyewitness here who speaks a Arabic-Hindi mix, and he is telling me he thinks something actually dropped from the sky now. I have no evidence of that, but several people are looking into a canal of water, which is maybe 50 meters from the shopping mall, saying that explosion actually emanated from there, and in fact, a missile landed in this body of water, creating a huge explosion. I don't have any evidence of that. The structures in between this body of water and the shopping mall appear to be intact at this point, so hard to say exactly what -- from where this explosion came.
Again, from the sky, or from the ground, we're still trying to figure that out. A little bit challenging now as there was some concern and everyone ran away from the actual site.
There is no -- there's always a smell of carbon in the air. There's no other smell, as far as any other kind of chemical agents or anything like that. We don't have any evidence of that. There is no one wearing gas masks at this time, including the security personnel and the officials that appear to be from the Kuwait government. We are obviously going to be keeping a close eye on those as well.
We are -- our next goal really to try and figure out exactly where this explosion came -- from the water 100 meters away from the shopping mall, or from the portico of the shopping mall itself. We are going to get back to you on that as soon as we can figure that out over the next few minutes.
DOBBS: And Sanjay, even though it appears that the explosion may have been centered somewhat distant from -- some distance from your original thought, there's still no signs of injuries to anyone in that area?
GUPTA: There really isn't. We drove up on the scene pretty quickly. As I mentioned, all of the vehicles were actually moving towards -- we did not see any ambulances racing off. There are several, maybe 50 or so vehicles with sirens and -- lights and horns on them. We don't see any of them rushing off at this time. I have talked to a couple of people who say -- asked them if they saw anyone get hurt. They said no. It is late here, as you know, Wolf.
This shopping mall likely was not open, it is almost 2:30 in the morning. This happened probably -- maybe just before 2:00 in the morning. We don't see any evidence of injuries at this time.
DOBBS: And is there, Sanjay, a chemical detection unit there on the site?
GUPTA: You know, the chemical protection units that I'm used to seeing from my time in Iraq, I have not seen at this point. But like I said, there are several Kuwait officials, perhaps from a nuclear, biological, chemical team around the area. They may have been the ones that told us to get back. But they also don't have masks on.
So I'm not sure what they know that I don't know. But they're not wearing their masks at this point. There does appear to be a tanker truck, a very large tanker truck rolling up right now with sirens on. We're going to figure out what that truck is doing here and what its purpose it is as well -- Lou. DOBBS: Sanjay, we'll get back to you in just a matter of moments. Thank you, Sanjay Gupta reporting from the site of that blast. A Kuwait city mall. And apparently a somewhat broader area than we were first led to believe. Debris, Sanjay Gupta reports, spread over at least an area of 500 meters. We will be going back to him as he gathers more details and facts about what appears to be now -- certainly it's in question, but what appears to be a missile strike against Kuwait City.
Coalition troops, meanwhile, are advancing on targets across Iraq tonight. The 101st Airborne has completed its first offensive from deep inside Iraq. Ryan Chilcote and his photographer, Greg Danilenko (ph), are with the 101st. Ryan has details on the targets that the 101st hit in tonight's attacks -- Ryan.
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sure. The 101st Airborne's Aviation Regiment has completed its first deep attack, and what a deep attack is is sending its Apache Attack helicopters, in this case it's Apache Attack Longbow helicopters, that's the new version of the Apache Attack helicopter, a very sophisticated helicopter, dozens of them southwest of Baghdad, about 100 -- well, in the vicinity of 100 miles southwest of Baghdad to destroy remnants of an armored Iraqi brigade in that area.
I have learned since they got back, they are all now back, that they destroyed some APCs, some tanks, and a lot of other vehicles in the area. Also, they tell me that the Air Force was involved, there were perhaps some British Air Force and U.S. Air Force in the area.
Now, real quickly, two slight mishaps on this mission. As the helicopters were leaving, one helicopter just shortly after it left came back, apparently because of some kind of mechanical problem. It's very strange to see that. Particularly with all the other helicopters continuing on. And landed right here at the air field right where I am right now. Apparently in brownout conditions.
And I know we've talked about this a lot recently. But for those who don't know what brownout is is when a pilot tries to land his helicopter but can't quite see the ground because the dust, the sand here in the desert is so fine that it kicks up with those rotors moving around so quickly. And the pilot simply can't see the ground as he's landing.
Well, that's what happened. And that helicopter rolled. That also happened again when the helicopters came back. Again, one of the helicopters rolled. Very dangerous stuff. These are very sophisticated helicopters. A lot of moving parts. And that can be very dangerous.
Thankfully, all those pilots are OK. In the case of one pilot, I am told he may have a broken leg. But that's not so bad considering what could have happened.
Now, I actually have one of the pilots with me. He was on that mission. This is quite an extraordinary opportunity. I'd like to talk with him about what he saw. What was it like? CWO TED HAZEN, APACHE PILOT: It was pretty spectacular. I mean, military's briefed (ph), our artillery hit like it was planned on. You could see it in the distance.
Got in there. A couple of our teams immediately got contact with enemy vehicles of some sort. I didn't see it actually. Shot those targets. Called in to our attack air fighter in the sky, running some F-18 Hornets that dropped some 500-pound bombs on the first set of targets. That team left.
Second company came in, again, found targets almost immediately found a small column of tanks, five or six, shot one of those to mark it. And then I believe it was British Harriers, I'm not sure, British or Marines, Harriers came in right as we were leaving the area and dropped, let's say, half a dozen bombs right on it.
CHILCOTE: I know you've flown for two decades now. And you told me this is your first combat mission.
HAZEN: Yes.
CHILCOTE: What was it like in comparison to what you expected? And describe it sort of as the pilot inside the cockpit.
HAZEN: It was -- pretty much I've seen tapes from Desert Storm and other areas. So it was pretty much like that. It was everything I expected and it was a lot different. It was a lot -- I don't know, a lot quieter. I wasn't as nervous as I thought I'd be. And it went by very quickly.
CHILCOTE: You're flying low when you fly. I mean, I think people don't really have an idea of what it's like inside an Apache.
HAZEN: Yes, we're basically 50 feet -- we're doing moving fire so that they don't have a chance to shoot at us. Between 50 and 80 knots. So that's where most of my tension was, is flying the aircraft that low to the ground. You don't get trained that way quite very often.
CHILCOTE: Well, thank you very much.
Lou, that's all I have here from the 101st Airborne's Forward Operating Base in central Iraq. Back to you.
DOBBS: Ryan Chilcote with the 101st, which apparently carrying out a successful mission on its first helicopter attack of the campaign.
We're going to go to Wolf Blitzer. Just about 45 minutes ago a little more than that now, a missile, according to Kuwaiti authorities, struck downtown Kuwait City. Wolf, what more do you have for us?
BLITZER: Well, Lou, Kuwaiti authorities continue to say it was a missile that flew in and hit downtown Kuwait City, this shopping mall, it's called the Souq Sharq, a very popular western-style mall here in the middle of the night after 1:00 a.m. Now it's after 2:00 a.m. here in Kuwait City. Unclear how much damage.
Our Sanjay Gupta is there on the scene. He says it doesn't look like it came from the sky, it looks like it came from the ground. And as a result it could have been some sort of bombing in the sense of a terrorist kind of car bombing or whatever.
The bottom line is it's totally unclear right now what the cause of this explosion is, whether it was a missile, whether it was a bomb that was planted in this shopping mall or near this shopping mall. We're told that there is extensive damage to the cinema, to the movie theater at the mall the Al Sharkia (ph) movie theater, as it's called at the mall. No one of course was there. No one was at the mall in the middle of the night. All the stores were closed. The movie theater was closed as well.
Sanjay Gupta suggesting, though, that there's a strong smell of smoke. We could see the smoke billowing over the Kuwaiti skyline obviously for some time after. I personally heard that huge explosion that rocked this city. But at this point I think it's fair to say we're getting conflicting information about what the cause of the explosion might have been.
We're going to wait to get some more specific information. Then we'll have some hard evidence. Eyewitnesses on the scene say that they think they saw a missile come in from Iraq, from the Faw Peninsula. That's not far from Umm Qasr. But at this point it's all very sketchy. And I don't think we should draw any hard and fast conclusions yet. We'll wait for some more definitive answers before we do that -- Lou.
DOBBS: OK. Thank you very much, Wolf.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld -- we'll be going back to Wolf and to Sanjay Gupta in Kuwait City as we learn more about what appears to be a successful missile strike by the Iraqis against downtown Kuwait City. No report of injuries, but we will be going back as we learn more about that missile strike if indeed it turns out that's what it is.
Defense Secretary Rumsfeld today warned Syria and Iran to stay out of the war against Saddam Hussein. The Secretary of Defense accused Syria of sending military supplies to Iraq. He also warned Iran to stay out of the conflict. Barbara Starr reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a public warning to Iraq's neighbors to stay out of the fight. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld warning Syria and Iran that the U.S. is watching their activities.
The secretary had the sharpest criticism of the Damascus government. He said Syria is shipping military supplies including nightvision goggles into Iraq.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We consider such trafficking as hostile acts and will hold the Syrian government accountable for such shipments.
STARR: Rumsfeld refused to be drawn into a discussion of whether the U.S. would move against Syria.
QUESTION: Are you threatening military action against Syria?
RUMSFELD: I'm saying said. It was carefully phrased.
STARR: Syria said Rumsfeld's statements were an attempt to divert attention from civilian Iraqi casualties in the war. A Syrian spokeswoman said Rumsfeld's charge is an absolutely unfounded, irresponsible statement.
Sources tell CNN there is no new smoking gun with Syria. It is more a long-standing controversy about Syria's weapons proliferation. It also came on a day when hat Syria at the United Nations voted with the U.S. to restart the Iraqi Oil for Food program.
On Iran secretary Rumsfeld said there are now hundreds of fighters backed by Iran on the Iraqi battlefield.
RUMSFELD: We have seen a lot of corps people moving into Iraq, and they report up through the Revolutionary Guard, and they're armed, and there are some additional ones that are close to the border.
And my statement, I believe and I hope, said something like this -- that to the extent they interfere with General Franks' activities they would have to be considered combatants.
STARR (on camera): While Secretary Rumsfeld's statements against Iran and Syria appeared surprising, sources tell CNN the White House knew he would make the statement and put both countries on notice.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: In ground operations today Iraqi forces in southern Iraq shelled and machine gunned civilians who were trying to flee the city of Basra. Almost 1,000 people did escape into British-controlled territory. They were given food, water, and medical treatment. Diana Muriel reports from southern Iraq, her photographer Neil Hallsworth (ph).
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANA MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More than 1,000 women and children escorted by some men tried to make it to safety from the city of Basra across one of the main bridges to the southern side, where British forces are encamped.
At about 9:00 in the morning as the main group tried to make it across, a four-by-four vehicle drove on to the bridge. Behind it was mounted a machine gun and opened fire at what appeared to be the civilians on the bridge and the British forces at the other end of the bridge. A British tank came on to the bridge and fired at that vehicle destroying it, and killing three of the Fedayeen, or local militia men who were on and driving that vehicle.
About 200 or 300 of the civilians fled back to the north side of the river. The others made it across to safety, although some casualties were taken. The British managed to recover one young woman who was injured in the crossfire and brought her to safe on the other side.
Over the past few days refugees have been trying to leave the city, but Fedayeen, according to British military sources, are patrolling that bridge and trying to prevent people from making it across.
Diana Muriel, CNN, southern Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: A number of developments today in southern Iraq. And we want to, if we can, turn to some pictures that are coming in from Abu Dhabi Television of -- and there, these are the pictures of the Souq Sharq. This explosion coming just now, in what I believe is just under an hour ago. These pictures showing you the damage.
It would have been about 2:00 in the morning when these pictures were taken. Extensive damage, as you see here, of this very large mall in Kuwait City.
Our Sanjay Gupta is on the scene. He has been investigating. He has seen absolutely no evidence of injuries to anyone. Again, it's now past -- well past 2:00 in the morning there. And that is fortunate.
Kuwaiti officials saying that it is the result of a missile strike, although Sanjay Gupta himself has seen little evidence to suggest that is in fact the case and has conflicting reports from eyewitnesses on the scene. But what we do know is a tremendous explosion.
Our Wolf Blitzer atop the hotel position there reporting a loud explosion in downtown Kuwait. And what you're seeing, the results of that explosion. Still unclear as to its cause. Sanjay Gupta, we now have a communications link with. And, Sanjay, what more can you tell us?
GUPTA: Well, there are some eyewitness reports now, several of them, telling me that there appeared to have been something that landed in the water. There is a canal of some sort that is about 100 meters away from this particular site.
Given that, they think that something actually landed in this particular canal and that was what caused the explosion. Interestingly, there is a -- there appears to be a pretty large retaining wall between the canal and the shopping mall. And there's not a significant amount of damage to this particular retaining wall, suggesting that the explosion almost went straight upwards and then came back down on the shopping mall. We just ran through the area that I've been describing, Lou, the portico, which appears to have sustained the most damage. And inside the portico it is even more dramatic. Very, very thick concrete walls that are the supporting...
(CROSSTALK)
GUPTA: ... floor of the portico appear to have been completely blown out.
Again, just the smell of carbon in the air. There is no evidence this may have been -- there is any chemical or biological thing. There are officials on site. They do not -- they are not wearing their gas masks. There are about 50 vehicles with alarms and sirens there on standby. We have been told to move further back a few times now. But the situation is looking to be a little bit more pacified than it was just a half an hour ago.
But again, it does appear to be, at least from eyewitness accounts, we arrived here very quickly, but there were people that were actually here at the time. They say something actually fell out of the sky, landed into this canal of water 100 meters away, and created this very loud and significant explosion -- Lou.
DOBBS: OK, Sanjay. Thank you very much.
As we're looking at these pictures, I'd like to bring in Wolf Blitzer from Kuwait city, who I'm told has some more details for us -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Lou, Kuwait police, Kuwaiti police are now telling us formally, officially, that it was in fact a missile that landed near the mall, a missile coming in from an undisclosed location that caused the damage that we have now seen.
Of course, the explosion that rocked downtown Kuwait, that rocked the Kuwait City at this Shark mall. It's called the Souq Sharq. And caused the damage that it did cause, the smoke that billowed over the skies, the skyline of Kuwait City for some time.
The Kuwaiti police say apparently there were no injuries as a result of this missile that caused the explosion, no damage -- no injuries presumably caused. It was in the middle of the night after 1:00 a.m. local time. The mall was obviously closed. The marina near the mall was closed. The movie theater inside was closed, as were all the restaurants and other activities around this area...
DOBBS: Wolf?
BLITZER: It's sort of isolated near the water, and as a result there were no injuries. But Kuwaiti police, Lou, insist it was in fact a missile.
DOBBS: Wolf, while we still have Sanjay Gupta here, and he's still on the scene, this is an interesting suggestion that you have there, Sanjay, that this missile landed in the canal nearby. Is there evidence of it there that's accessible to you?
GUPTA: You know, Wolf -- I'm sorry, Lou, there was actually lots of metal in this particular (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 100 meters away. I was trying to figure out myself as to whether or not something may have exploded and then landed in the canal as opposed to landing in the canal and exploding.
I am talking to several eyewitnesses in the area, and they're telling me that they in fact saw something -- before the explosion they saw something land in this body of water and then explode. So that's something I've heard now from several people. There is lots of metal in the water. It is subsequently now started to sink.
But the first eyewitnesses who were there, I grabbed them, I asked them what they saw. They said they saw greenish metal, which is the best way that they could describe it. They described it in way that made it sound like a missile in terms of it being somewhat rounded on its edges, even cylindrical, one person described it. Although it sounded like it was also fragmented.
But that is the best sort of description that we have at this point. We are trying to get some live pictures at this time from the area.
DOBBS: OK. Well, Sanjay, as you investigate let us know what you find. It sounds as though there might be some very fortunate people if indeed this was a missile, that it did land, if that is indeed the case, in that canal before exploding.
Wolf, any concluding thoughts here?
BLITZER: Well, the most important thought is that you're absolutely right, Lou, since it came in the middle of the night very fortunate. Kuwaiti City residents, since virtually no one, I believe, was at that mall at that time of the night, 1:00 a.m. local time.
All indications also, fortunately there's no indication whatsoever that if it was a missile, and Kuwaiti police are now telling us formally it was a missile, if it was a missile, no indication that anything but some sort of conventional warhead as all the other missiles that were launched and intercepted by Patriot missiles have had since this war started about a week, eight days or so ago. So no indication that anything other than some sort of conventional warhead, if in fact it was a missile.
Kuwaiti police say they have reason to believe it was a missile. We're going to continue to check. So far, by the way, we've checked with the Central Command, the U.S. military, that's responsible for this part of the world, of course. And they're investigating to try to determine what precisely it was as well.
As you know, Lou, there are tens of thousands, more than 100,000 U.S. troops, British forces here in Kuwait, many of them getting ready to move into Iraq. So as a result, the security has been quite extensive. DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much. Wolf Blitzer reporting from Kuwait City where a missile, according to Kuwait officials, has struck the center of the town. No injuries but some considerable damage at least to one mall in the area
The Pentagon today hit back at its critics, who say that the Department of Defense failed to anticipate how long or how difficult this war with Iraq could be. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the media has failed to report the war properly. Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pentagon briefings have become the front lines in a raging battle over how the war is perceived to be going, with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld criticizing what he called massive volumes of television and breathless reporting.
RUMSFELD: We have seen mood swings in the media from highs to lows to highs and back again, sometimes in a single 24-hour period.
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld said he had only seen the headlines on "Washington Post" and "New York Times" articles reporting that the commander of U.S. ground forces, Lieutenant General William Wallace, answered "it's beginning to look that way" when asked if the war would be longer than expected. "The enemy we're fighting is different from the one we war-gamed against," he also conceded.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: F-16 delivering precision-guided munitions.
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon countered with a montage of cockpit videos of successful air strikes and maps showing that U.S. and British forces control as much as 40 percent of Iraqi territory and 95 percent of the skies.
MYERS: The plan is sound. It's being executed. And it's on track. And that's essentially what General Wallace said, too. He said, we're about where we expected to be. That's one of his quotes as well.
MCINTYRE: After delays caused by mines in the harbor, humanitarian aid on a British ship has finally reached the port of Umm Qasr. The Pentagon insists delays in getting food, fuel, and ammunition to U.S. troops on the front lines in Iraq were mostly due to sandstorms and dismissed any attacks on the 300-mile-long supply lines as, quote, "militarily insignificant." But even as the U.S. encircles Baghdad and moves Apache helicopters in position to pound Republican Guard troops, the Pentagon admits there's a key unknown: the extent to which the Iraqi people may feel a patriotic fervor to resist U.S. forces sent to liberate them. Despite being a lynchpin of U.S. policy, Rumsfeld insists the Iraqi mood is unknowable.
RUMSFELD: They might even feel a little different if the death squads are not standing next to them with guns to their heads. But why should I try to speculate as to what it will be since we will soon know?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: And there was this admission from Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy defense secretary today, that the U.S. did underestimate the willingness of Saddam Hussein's regime to commit war crimes. He said, "I don't think we fully anticipated so many people would pretend to surrender and shoot. I don't think we anticipated," Wolfowitz said "the number of execution squads within Basra." Lou?
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
Well, Joseph Galloway was awarded the Bronze Star for his actions during the Vietnam War. Joe Galloway is one of the country's foremost war correspondents. He is the only civilian to have received such an honor during the Vietnam War. He's a veteran correspondent, more than 22 years' experience reporting overseas and consultant for Knight- Ridder newspapers and joins us tonight from our studios in Washington, D.C.
Joe Galloway, great to have you here and, if I may say, an honor.
JOSEPH GALLOWAY, KNIGHT-RIDDER: Nice to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: Joe, we see what's happening with the Pentagon lashing back at critics in the media. It's certainly not the first time it's happened. We hear General Wallace saying that he did not war game for what he is experiencing, he and his troops. What do you make of that?
GALLOWAY: Well, I've listened to a lot of generals, retired, active Pentagon officials. I fully understand that the secretary of defense wants to put a good face on this thing. But you know, we've followed the whole progress of the planning of this war campaign. And, you know, from the beginning the secretary and his civilian officials in the Pentagon had an idea that the way of war had changed, and revolution, merrily so, that we didn't have to do all of the things that doctrine tells us we should do for an armored campaign in a place like Iraq.
DOBBS: You're talking about massive force? You're talking about...
GALLOWAY: Absolutely. That you don't send a tank column roaring across the desert without a cavalry squadron to secure your supply lines, you know? You've got to have gas. There's nothing more useless than an armored division out of fuel. There were assumptions made that this thing was going to go fairly quickly and that there would be mass surrenders of the Republican Guard, that the Shiites in the south would rise up, and a brittle ring of leaders around Saddam Hussein would crack and crumble...
DOBBS: The best case...
GALLOWAY: Best case scenario. But you know, you never plan for the best case scenario. You need... DOBBS: Joe, let me ask you - I'm sorry.
GALLOWAY: No. Go ahead.
DOBBS: Let me ask you this, Joe. We have issues here in terms of questions of how good our intelligence was. Although it looks as though that initial missile strike against the bunker in Baghdad city attempting to take out the head of the snake, as the language has become, striking Saddam Hussein and his sons, came mighty close to getting it done, doesn't it?
GALLOWAY: It did. It came very close. And some of the intelligence has been quite good. There's no question about it. The question is whose intelligence did Secretary Rumsfeld and his advisors listen to? Was it the CIA, which was predicting Fedayeen, attacks by the crazies on your supply lines, or was it more optimistic intelligence from Iraqi exiles and maybe some Israelis as well?
DOBBS: Let me ask you this, Joe. Obviously, one of the central tensions now is the military's attempt to use precision-guided weapons in Baghdad, trying as no military has ever tried before to limit civilian casualties or collateral damage, let's call them what they are, civilian casualties, and the absolute imperative of protecting the security of our forces, our troops, their lives, and achieving military objectives. What happens from here in your judgment?
GALLOWAY: Well, I'm told by my sources that General Franks is going to hold here until the Air Force and the aviation assets of the Army have degraded the Republican Guard division screening Baghdad by at least half, and soften them up real good before we take that next step to the outskirts of Baghdad. Then you come to the question of what do you do with Baghdad itself. The dynamic seems to have changed there as well. Just because a lot of people hate Saddam Hussein doesn't mean that they have come to love us because we as the author of the embargo have given them a great deal of privation over the last dozen years.
DOBBS: Joe Galloway, great to have you with us. Thank you very much.
GALLOWAY: Nice to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: We're going to go to Sanjay Gupta in Kuwait City. He's at the Souq Sharq, which is a mall in the center of Kuwait City, where a missile, according to Kuwaiti authorities, struck just about an hour and 15 minutes ago. No injuries reported. Sanjay, update us, if you will.
GUPTA: Yes. You know, it's very interesting now. As I mentioned to you before, Lou, a lot of the attention now being focused on this canal river that's sort of in front of this portico of the shopping mall. Initially so much of the attention focused on this portico. I am looking now at a walking bridge that heads out to a pier in this canal/river. And it is very dark out here in the middle of the night. But it does appear to be, we're figuring out now for the first time, that a good chunk of this walking bridge has actually been significantly damaged, may in fact be completely gone, even adding further evidence in fact to the fact that something hit in the water and then exploded. it appears that half of this - or good chunks, I should say, of this particular walking bridge are gone.
Again, I mentioned earlier, Lou, that there was some metal that was actually seen in the water. It appeared to have been sinking when we last spoke. A piece of it did bob back up, and we got a fairly good look at it there for a second. It almost appeared to be the back of what looked like a missile. Sort of just the back of it, sort of with its nose in the water, its back still sort of sticking up in the air and going back down into the water, bobbing around for a couple of minutes. Now a lot of the attention now being focused on this canal, this river behind the shopping mall - Lou.
DOBBS: Sanjay, thank you very much. Sanjay Gupta from Kuwait City. The mall called Souq Sharp in downtown Kuwait City, where a missile hit. No injuries, and relatively limited damage, but a lot of unanswered questions this evening as our people in Kuwait City, with Sanjay Gupta on the scene now, and other correspondents on their way to the scene of that explosion, looking for more answers about precisely what kind of missile struck and precisely what the damage is. Thank you, Sanjay Gupta, from Kuwait City.
An emotional story from southern Iraq tonight. Marines have now recovered the bodies of their fallen comrades after days of fighting in Nasiriya. Alessio Vinci will have that story for us when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Kurdish forces in northern Iraq today moved closer to Iraqi-controlled Kirkuk, the region's oil capital. Iraqi forces appear to have retreated from that city to front line positions. Brent Sadler has a report for us from northern Iraq - Brent.
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Lou, those Iraqi soldiers pulled back towards Kirkuk after many, many days of heavy air strikes both in the hours of daylight and in the hours of darkness. This is what's been happening along the northern front in the Kalak area, where I'm reporting from. A series of heavy explosions this night. In fact, you're seeing one of the most intense nights of bombing along this stretch of northern front line just close to the city of Mosul. And this bombing campaign and the effects of the abandonment of that Iraqi position is making Iraqi Kurds feel just a little easier right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Iraqi Kurds picnic on a sunny day, relaxing in a region the United States calls "Free Iraq," free, that is, from Saddam Hussein. But getting rid of the Iraqi dictator once and for all, says primary school teacher Farez Uma (ph), will take time. "The regime has a strong army," he says. "Patience is very important here."
But patience, it seems, is wearing thin. Iraq's main opposition groups say they're ready to fight the fight, now calling all Iraqis to rise up and help liberate their towns and cities from dictatorship, much as they did in the north and south of Iraq after the last Gulf War, 12 years ago, only to end in slaughter and defeat. But any concerted attempt to spark a second uprising outside the command and control of the United States faces a lukewarm reception.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any move that takes place has to take place within that command structure. Otherwise, we do not favor the participation of any force that doesn't meet that criteria.
SADLER: Iraqi Kurds, with tens of thousands of fighters, have put themselves under U.S. command. They face Iraqi lines along a northern front, a heavily bombed front, which may be starting to crack. Iraqi troops have abandoned their key positions on the road to Kirkuk, replaced by Kurds moving 12 miles closer to the oil-rich city.
But Kurds know they are still not safe. A smoke bomb in Irbil (ph) raising alarm, an act of terror, say the authorities here aimed at spreading fear and terror, they say, among people living in the city of Irbil. But it didn't stop these Kurds putting war and terror aside for this day. "We hope those people in the government-controlled areas will soon be free," says sixth grade student Ozan, "so they can enjoy life like us."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Well, another reason for growing confidence, of course, Lou, has been the arrival here and the continuing build-up of U.S. ground forces with that dramatic entrance into the war just 48 hours ago by the 173rd Armored Brigade out of Italy. That presence really making people feel that one day sooner or later Saddam Hussein will be deposed and all of Iraq will be free.
DOBBS: Brent, the number of flights, U.S. military transport flights in there, I expect that has picked up significantly in the past 24 hours?
SADLER: Yes, it has indeed. C-117s coming into the air field at Harir about an hour-and-a-half from where I am. The Iraqi front lines, I guess three or four miles behind me in the dark. Yes, equipment, Humvees, weaponry. nothing big, nothing armored yet but certainly piling up in northern Iraq right now - Lou.
DOBBS: Brent Sadler reporting, thank you very much, from northern Iraq. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today said Iraq is using death squads to terrorize Iraqi civilians into fighting against coalition forces. He urged Iraqis to remember the faces of those who threaten them and said they will face judgment one day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: They dress in civilian clothes and operate from private homes, confiscated from innocent people, and try to blend in with the civilian population. They conduct sadistic executions on sidewalks and public squares, cutting the tongues out of those accused of disloyalty and beheading people with swords. They put on American and British uniforms to try to fool regular Iraqi soldiers into surrendering to them and then execute them as an example for others who might contemplate defection or capitulation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: The coalition air war is picking up intensity. Planes striking Republican Guard and communication targets now. Frank Buckley, photographer Greg Canes (ph), aboard the USS Constellation, that carrier operating in the Persian Gulf. Frank joins us by videophone - Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, every time one of those strike packages go into Iraq, they are accompanied by the EA-60 Prowler, that is the radar-jamming aircraft. I've got a couple of crew members here who've gone in recently.
First let me get right to you, Mark. You're an ECMO, an electronic countermeasures officer. Tell me about the surface-to-air threat and the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in and around Baghdad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Around Baghdad there's an area of densely - area of dense radar and surface-to-air missiles all in and around Baghdad. And our mission is to jam those Radars and SAMs so strikers can go in there and drop their bombs on targets, and lessen the likelihood of them getting shot down.
BUCKLEY: The other day, just so we can get this in, you're the pilot, Lieutenant Kevin Hendricks. Kevin, you had to fly that hail- damaged Prowler, the radar completely imploded. Tell me about that event.
LT. KEVIN HENDRICKS, PILOT: Well, I can't tell you too much right now. It's being investigated. But basically, it was damaged. The nose came apart. And actually the crew didn't know the complete detail of the damage that was done to it. But we were able to bring it back and land it safely with coordination amongst the boat and everyone in the jet.
BUCKLEY: And you guys have for the first time from this air wing released a HARM missile to seek out an air defense radar. Tell me how that went.
HENDRICKS: Well, we got immediate task (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to support six ships of F-16s going to downtown Baghdad to drop on some target. And it was an SA - a couple of us, their missiles there, that we were going to suppress. We set ourselves up, we got authorization to shoot our HARM, and make sure that it got to target a full minute prior to their target. So that hopefully that we hit that thing so they wouldn't get shot down. And all six of them made it back safely. So we hope we did our part.
BUCKLEY: All right. Thanks very much, gentlemen. Getting very loud in here, Lou, with the jets revving up. We're going to send it back to you in New York.
DOBBS: Frank Buckley aboard the carrier "USS Constellation." Two major developments just in the past hour or so. A missile has struck an empty mall in downtown Kuwait City. We'll have the latest for you on that. And the 101st Airborne moving into action with its attack helicopters for the first time.
I'm Lou Dobbs in New York. Aaron Brown, Wolf Blitzer will be coming up next. They'll be followed by "LARRY KING."
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