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The Fight for Basra

Aired March 31, 2003 - 10:06   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Some of the fiercest fighting in recent days has been in the southern Iraqi city of Basra, second in size only to Baghdad. Their British troops are on the outskirts and pushing in.
Let's go to Christiane, who joins us with the very latest from there.

Christiane, what's the latest?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, indeed, Basra is a main objective, certainly for the British in this region and also for the entire war aim.

Basically the British is now consolidated a position on the southeast of Basra, which mean they are on the west and southeast side, in addition British forces are being reinforced in many parts of the region, including north, to the north of the oil fields in Rumalah (ph). The first paratroop battalion was brought into the front earlier today. We have pictures of that, and were told about that from some of our military spokesmen here.

As I say, the position southeast of Basra was consolidated over almost a 24-hour operation, and now they say they have got those positions. They took something like 200 Iraqi prisoners, and the battle for control of Basra continues, particularly the hearts and minds battle. The British, of course, have wanted to take in humanitarian aid there, but so far they have had to limit that to the areas and the towns and the villages they have already secured, and most of those lie south of Basra.

We are going to turn now to Colonel Chris Vernon, the senior military spokesman for the British forces here to talk more about the strategic picture of what we're seeing.

I want to ask you specifically about Basra. People are now beginning to say that perhaps it was a mistake not to immediately target the big urban areas, for instance Basra, and the others on the way to Baghdad, because that may have given the people sort of cause to wonder exactly what you were doing, and you know you hadn't controlled and it they didn't really know what your aim was. That's changed now, isn't it, because certain cities are now targets?

CHRIS VERNON, BRITISH ARMY SPOKESMAN: You have a fair point. The only urban area we wished to go into straightaway was Umm Qasr. The reason we wanted to fight for that was to bring in humanitarian aid to achieve that staging court there. Any military person will tell you that fighting in Billhabar (ph) is, as we are seeing in Basra, is difficult, and it's slow, and therefore what we did, we wish to defeat the Iraqi army out in the open desert. That gives us the space to then bring up our supplies, build up our lines of communication fairly securely and then switch to the urban areas.

Now you could argue, we could have gone the other way, but militarily we really had to have the open areas secure, which we have got before we turned our attention to Basra, and indeed ultimately to Baghdad.

AMANPOUR: But the fact is that psychological warfare, psy-ops, is a big part of this operation, and mostly now to try to convince the Iraqi people that you are here to stay, that you mean business this time, that the allied troops are serious this time, given their worries about what happened back in 1991. How are you going to achieve that now at this point?

VERNON: Twin-track approach. We're targeting the Baath Party regime in Basra particularly, and in Al Zubar (ph) as well, and we're targeting the military who they are controlling. We're also taking out the remnants of the republican -- not the Republican Guard, the Iraqi regular army who are operating around there. We are hitting at those.

The other side of the approach is to very simply play hearts and minds operations with the local civilians, both in terms of information operations, cutting out their information flow, bringing in aid and just talking to them on the ground to try and engender in them a degree of confidence. So between the two twin tracks, what we are trying to do is drive a wedge between the control of the Baath Party officials and its militia and the people.

AMANPOUR: Do you accept, though, what the people are saying, those we talked to quite regularly now, that until they know that you are not here to stay, that you are not going to leave, that you are going to get rid of Saddam, which the stated objective is, they will not be out there welcoming you and you will not see this sort of hearts and minds battle won?

VERNON: Certainly. It is not proving easy. There is very deep- seated fear indeed, given to what happened to them in 1991, and we have just got to chip away at convincing them we are here to stay.

I mean, If you were very well informed, the mere fact we have over 200,000 coalition troops here and the United States is putting in more is a clear indication of the results here to the end (ph).

But of course, if you are not getting that sort of information, because states are controlled radio and TV from Baghdad, will not have been telling them that. They have very little by which to make that judgment. So we have just got to keep going at it.

AMANPOUR: You have basically torn down the TV antenna and you have taken down various radio frequencies to Basra. Do you think your message is getting through there? How do you measure and assess the effect you're having? VERNON: Not very easily at the moment, particularly in Basra, because we haven't got much in Basra. We are in and out. I can't say what we have got in there, but I have to say, it is not much, and what we have is still targeting the military and the Baath regime.

In Al Zabayah (ph), on the other hand, where we have now got four firm company infantry company positions there, patrolling day and night, to draw a Northern Ireland analogy, the militia there are operating without any degree of support from the local people.

And day on day, they become very much a minority with a much more normal town way of living.

AMANPOUR: Colonel Vernon, thank you very much indeed.

Paula, so that's the latest from here. As we say, that area southeast of Basra has been consolidated and secured, according to the British, and now really a chief aim is to start pushing out that humanitarian aid to all the communities. But I must say, it is difficult, and the military is not used to this kind of humanitarian work, and of course, the U.N. and the NGOs aren't in, so there's a little bit of slowness and confusion on something that's really needed and that is to show the humanitarian aid is going out -- Paula.

ZAHN: Well, I learned a lot from that interview you just did.

Christiane Amanpour, thanks so much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 31, 2003 - 10:06   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Some of the fiercest fighting in recent days has been in the southern Iraqi city of Basra, second in size only to Baghdad. Their British troops are on the outskirts and pushing in.
Let's go to Christiane, who joins us with the very latest from there.

Christiane, what's the latest?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, indeed, Basra is a main objective, certainly for the British in this region and also for the entire war aim.

Basically the British is now consolidated a position on the southeast of Basra, which mean they are on the west and southeast side, in addition British forces are being reinforced in many parts of the region, including north, to the north of the oil fields in Rumalah (ph). The first paratroop battalion was brought into the front earlier today. We have pictures of that, and were told about that from some of our military spokesmen here.

As I say, the position southeast of Basra was consolidated over almost a 24-hour operation, and now they say they have got those positions. They took something like 200 Iraqi prisoners, and the battle for control of Basra continues, particularly the hearts and minds battle. The British, of course, have wanted to take in humanitarian aid there, but so far they have had to limit that to the areas and the towns and the villages they have already secured, and most of those lie south of Basra.

We are going to turn now to Colonel Chris Vernon, the senior military spokesman for the British forces here to talk more about the strategic picture of what we're seeing.

I want to ask you specifically about Basra. People are now beginning to say that perhaps it was a mistake not to immediately target the big urban areas, for instance Basra, and the others on the way to Baghdad, because that may have given the people sort of cause to wonder exactly what you were doing, and you know you hadn't controlled and it they didn't really know what your aim was. That's changed now, isn't it, because certain cities are now targets?

CHRIS VERNON, BRITISH ARMY SPOKESMAN: You have a fair point. The only urban area we wished to go into straightaway was Umm Qasr. The reason we wanted to fight for that was to bring in humanitarian aid to achieve that staging court there. Any military person will tell you that fighting in Billhabar (ph) is, as we are seeing in Basra, is difficult, and it's slow, and therefore what we did, we wish to defeat the Iraqi army out in the open desert. That gives us the space to then bring up our supplies, build up our lines of communication fairly securely and then switch to the urban areas.

Now you could argue, we could have gone the other way, but militarily we really had to have the open areas secure, which we have got before we turned our attention to Basra, and indeed ultimately to Baghdad.

AMANPOUR: But the fact is that psychological warfare, psy-ops, is a big part of this operation, and mostly now to try to convince the Iraqi people that you are here to stay, that you mean business this time, that the allied troops are serious this time, given their worries about what happened back in 1991. How are you going to achieve that now at this point?

VERNON: Twin-track approach. We're targeting the Baath Party regime in Basra particularly, and in Al Zubar (ph) as well, and we're targeting the military who they are controlling. We're also taking out the remnants of the republican -- not the Republican Guard, the Iraqi regular army who are operating around there. We are hitting at those.

The other side of the approach is to very simply play hearts and minds operations with the local civilians, both in terms of information operations, cutting out their information flow, bringing in aid and just talking to them on the ground to try and engender in them a degree of confidence. So between the two twin tracks, what we are trying to do is drive a wedge between the control of the Baath Party officials and its militia and the people.

AMANPOUR: Do you accept, though, what the people are saying, those we talked to quite regularly now, that until they know that you are not here to stay, that you are not going to leave, that you are going to get rid of Saddam, which the stated objective is, they will not be out there welcoming you and you will not see this sort of hearts and minds battle won?

VERNON: Certainly. It is not proving easy. There is very deep- seated fear indeed, given to what happened to them in 1991, and we have just got to chip away at convincing them we are here to stay.

I mean, If you were very well informed, the mere fact we have over 200,000 coalition troops here and the United States is putting in more is a clear indication of the results here to the end (ph).

But of course, if you are not getting that sort of information, because states are controlled radio and TV from Baghdad, will not have been telling them that. They have very little by which to make that judgment. So we have just got to keep going at it.

AMANPOUR: You have basically torn down the TV antenna and you have taken down various radio frequencies to Basra. Do you think your message is getting through there? How do you measure and assess the effect you're having? VERNON: Not very easily at the moment, particularly in Basra, because we haven't got much in Basra. We are in and out. I can't say what we have got in there, but I have to say, it is not much, and what we have is still targeting the military and the Baath regime.

In Al Zabayah (ph), on the other hand, where we have now got four firm company infantry company positions there, patrolling day and night, to draw a Northern Ireland analogy, the militia there are operating without any degree of support from the local people.

And day on day, they become very much a minority with a much more normal town way of living.

AMANPOUR: Colonel Vernon, thank you very much indeed.

Paula, so that's the latest from here. As we say, that area southeast of Basra has been consolidated and secured, according to the British, and now really a chief aim is to start pushing out that humanitarian aid to all the communities. But I must say, it is difficult, and the military is not used to this kind of humanitarian work, and of course, the U.N. and the NGOs aren't in, so there's a little bit of slowness and confusion on something that's really needed and that is to show the humanitarian aid is going out -- Paula.

ZAHN: Well, I learned a lot from that interview you just did.

Christiane Amanpour, thanks so much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com