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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
Coalition Forces Consolidating Around Baghdad; Health Officials Treating SARS As Very Serious
Aired April 2, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: The news today, coalition forces have advanced to within 15 miles of Baghdad, less than two weeks after the beginning of the ground war.
Central Command says the dagger is now clearly pointed at the heart of the Baghdad regime. We'll have action reports from our reporters in the field with the Army and Marines.
Over the course of this next hour we'll also have special reports on the growing U.S. anger at France and France's failure to support the coalition against Saddam Hussein.
Shiite Muslims gave soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division a warm welcome in Najaf today. The city's residents were at first cautious, but they soon began shaking soldiers' hands and chanting slogans against Saddam Hussein. Ryan Chilcote with the 101st Airborne Division will report from Najaf.
Two powerful columns of coalition troops tonight are advancing toward the outskirts of Baghdad. The U. S. attack has already destroyed two full Republican Guard divisions, the Medina and the Baghdad Divisions. We'll have a report from Karl Penhaul with the 11th Attack Helicopter Regiment.
Marines are advancing toward Baghdad up the Tigris valley, supported by heavy artillery barrages. One infantry battalion killed 100 Iraqi soldiers as they captured a bridge. Martin Savidge with the First Battalion, Seventh Marines, will report on the latest on that advance.
Private Jessica Lynch has arrived in Germany for medical treatment after she was rescued dramatically by Special Operations Forces in Iraq. She arrived at Ramstein Air Base less than an hour ago. Private Lynch will be treated for gunshot wounds and broken limbs before she can return home to West Virginia.
Now the latest developments at this hour.
(NEWSBREAK)
DOBBS: Good evening. The spearhead of the coalition force advancing to Baghdad tonight is about 15 miles from the city. The Army and Marines destroyed two full Republican Guard divisions in fierce fighting last night. The 3rd Infantry Division received massive air and artillery support as it advanced through the Karbala Gap, south of Baghdad. Karl Penhaul with the 11th Attack Helicopter Regiment has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U. S. commanders say U. S. troops are now within 15 to 20 miles of the southern outskirts of Baghdad after a day of rapid advances. Tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles in the 3rd Infantry Division, backed by Apache attack helicopters of the 11th Aviation Regiment have been advancing through the city of Karbala, a strategic town that controls river points and major highways, and advanced north across open arable land and again across the Euphrates River.
Some U. S. commanders have even suggested by the early hours of the morning, U. S. troops could be actually on the southern outskirts of Baghdad. These advances have come much quicker than many commanders expected. Because of the battles and fighting today, there has been resistance from Iraqi forces, but U. S. commanders say that that resistance has been lighter than expected. Some Apache attack helicopters were damaged by ground fire, but there was no repeat of the heavy anti-aircraft fire experienced in earlier attacks around the city of Karbala.
This is Karl Penhaul with the 11th Aviation Regiment near an Najaf, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The Pentagon today said coalition forces advancing to Baghdad are meeting only sporadic and somewhat lighter resistance than had been expected. The Pentagon obviously pleased with the advance of those coalition forces, but those same officials repeating their view that the toughest fighting may well lie ahead. senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As U.S. forces close in on Baghdad, they're beginning to see more signs of success. Iraqi citizens have cheered them, and battle-weary Republican Guard divisions have offered lighter than expected resistance as the U. S. forces approached the capital.
MAJ. GEN. STANLEY MCCHRYSTAL, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF DEPUTY DIRECTOR: We have indications that elements of the regular army have been brought in to reinforce Republican Guard organizations. Interestingly enough, we think that's a sign of weakness on their part. They would not normally match those formations.
MCINTYRE: In less than 24 hours, the U. S. 101st Airborne Division drove Iraqi Fedayeen fighters from the key city of Najaf, while other forces pushed north in a two-pronged attack.
The Army's 3rd Infantry Division punched through Karbala, meeting only light resistance from the Medina Republican Guard Division and moving along Highway Nine to within 25 miles of Baghdad. At the same time, Marines from the 1st Division secured a key Tigris River crossing near al Kut and are reported to have destroyed the combatability of the light infantry Baghdad Division. The Marines are now on Highway Seven headed north.
BRIG. GEN. VINCENT BROOKS, U. S. CENTRAL COMMAND: We will approach Baghdad. The dagger is clearly pointed at the heart of the regime right now and will remain pointed at it until the regime is gone.
MCINTYRE: The U. S. troops have now also entered the so-called red zone around Baghdad, where it's believed Saddam Hussein has authorized his troops to use chemical weapons.
VICTORIA CLARKE, PENTAGON SPOKESWOMAN: As much as we are making good progress, and we are, the toughest fighting could lie ahead. The likelihood that they might use chemical weapons is in front of us now.
MCINTYRE: The U. S. continues to use its high-tech advantage to maximum effect. In another combat first, the Pentagon says new sensor- fused cluster bombs like these were used to stop an Iraqi tank column in its tracks.
And Monday night, the U. S. seized a key dam in Iraq that if sabotaged, could have flooded the Euphrates and slowed the advance of U. S. troops through Karbala.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And even as U. S. ground troops push forward, the air war continues as well unabated. In fact, today the Pentagon says one target in Baghdad was hit with 40 satellite- guided bombs. A single target. It apparently is a very highly secure facility used by the special Republican Guard attacked by 40 of those satellite-guided JDAMS - Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, just how pleased are the senior commanders there at the Pentagon with this advance over the course of the past 24 hours?
MCINTYRE: Well, I think there is a feeling of some vindication of the war plan. But everybody here says it's -- just as it was premature to start talking about problems, it's way premature to say that this war is going smoothly. They do think that the hardest part could be to come, and they really do believe there's a real threat of the use of chemical or biological weapons.
DOBBS: And the divisions there approaching Baghdad are approaching the -- infantry divisions in particular -- are approaching in full chemical gear, are they not?
MCINTYRE: They have been as they've been getting closer and that threat is becoming real, they have been putting on some chemical gear as they move forward, although I'm not sure which units are doing that and under which conditions.
DOBBS: Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent, thank you very much. Two brigades of the 101st Airborne Division are now mopping up Iraqi resistance in the city of Najaf just south of Baghdad. Some of the surviving Iraqi forces are hiding in Muslim holy sites. Ryan Chilcote, who is with the 101st Airborne, reports now from Najaf.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Grunts from the 327th Infantry, 2nd Battalion, better known as "No Slack", march through a patch of palm trees, black clouds of smoke, and 69 land mines into Iraq's holy city of Najaf, the second day of an attack to root out Fedayeen paramilitaries who have used the city as a safe haven to launch attacks against U.S. forces for more than a week. The goal, to deny the Fedayeen movement...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a family of six behind the second unlocked door.
CHILCOTE: ... while causing minimum disruption to the largely pro-American Shia population and its religious sites.
(on camera): Searching house to house, street to street, is slow, tedious, and dangerous work. If it comes to this in Baghdad, things could take a very long time.
(voice-over): But first, some of the cities on the way to Baghdad, like this one, will have to be secured.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ready?
CHILCOTE: Teams of four move with painstaking procedure. A dozen blocks deep into the heart of Najaf. Sergeant Michael Bowers from Virginia sharing my take on the day.
(on camera): What do you think about this door-to-door, street to street stuff?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Long and tedious.
CHILCOTE (voice-over): "No Slack" took no casualties and no return fire. They did see a lot of visibly pleased locals, though. Many of the Fedayeen, they were told, fled north to Baghdad. Still, they could come back, and there's no telling how many of them are still at large.
Ryan Chilcote, CNN, with the 101st Airborne in Najaf, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coalition forces have described the latest battles on the way to Baghdad as quick moving. For more now on this advance, we're joined by CNN military analyst General David Grange.
Good to have you here.
GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U. S. ARMY (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you.
DOBBS: In talking with Jamie McIntyre, I guess we could call it cautious pleasure at this point in seeing this advance move this far at the Pentagon. By any standard this is a fairly remarkable advance, though, is it not?
GRANGE: Remarkable advance. But I think being cautious right now is prudent. Two divisions destroyed, but, you know, remnants of many others are still out there. And once they get to the outskirts of the city, that next big step, there's going to be some precondition I'm sure that will want to be met before they move in.
DOBBS: The forces who are advancing, as you say, as the circle is tightening around those six -- what were six -- Republican Guard divisions, four divisions remain. Elements of those, however, had been brought up, had they not, to reinforce both the Baghdad Division and the Medina?
GRANGE: Right, Lou. Some of the other Republican Guard division subunits have reinforced the Baghdad division and the Medina Division, as well as using some regular army units to reinforce the Republican Guard units. So, I believe what's happening is a shifting laterally, as well as north and south, of different elements in order to reinforce or reposition, mainly for survivability but also to try to do some type of delaying operation, which has obviously been unsuccessful for the Iraqis.
DOBBS: Is -- the map that we just put up shows, General, four divisions remaining. What is their likely fate now in this advance on Baghdad?
GRANGE: Well, I believe if they continue to attempt to defend the outskirts of the city, or even conduct spoiling attacks on coalition forces, they'll be destroyed. They'll die in place or die trying to move, unless they surrender. So the Republican Guard Divisions is one of the preconditions to eliminate to make combat ineffective before any move into Baghdad would even occur, I believe.
DOBBS: With this remarkable advance comes now the sobering issue of how to proceed against the actual attack on the city of Baghdad itself. What is your best assessment as to how that will proceed?
GRANGE: Well, my feeling is that the people really have to want it before a coalition force enters Baghdad because, you know, the force obviously can get swallowed up very quickly in a city the size of a Chicago.
You saw what happened in Najaf. That's the kind of thing that the coalition force really needs to be able to move through these choke points, this restricted terrain, this urban environment. Otherwise, the house-to-house clearing that we just watched with the 101st Airborne Division troopers would take a long, long time if there was notable resistance.
So I think the people of Baghdad have to want it. And some of these images that they're now seeing will help make that change, that flood of change of the people, wanting to free themselves from Saddam's regime, as well as seeing coalition tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles and Apaches right on the outskirts in the suburban areas of Baghdad. That has a moral influence on resistance or changing your sides as well.
DOBBS: Which will also put in, I would think, even in the most ardent Saddam Hussein supporter some questions, with Saddam Hussein saying the enemy is being vanquished, trying to explain those Apaches and Kiowas And M1-A1 tanks within sight of the city itself.
GRANGE: Yes. I think it would be very interesting if their information was gained by Central Command, they could share with the viewers of forces that say the heck with this, I'm out of here, or, you know, other leaders that have turned on Saddam's regime. The hardcore special Republican Guard brigades and their Iraqi special forces, hopefully, they'll do the same and either leave or surrender.
But I have a feeling a lot of those will have to be taken down by raids, strikes of coalition forces because they really have no future with the Iraqi people.
DOBBS: General David grange, as always, thank you, Dave.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
DOBBS: Coming up next, coalition forces uncover a chilling scene, evidence of torture carried out by the regime of Saddam Hussein. We'll have that report for you.
Rescued POW, Private Jessica Lynch, arrived at Ramstein Air Base in Germany just a short while ago. We'll update her condition.
And the SARS outbreak continues to spread throughout the world at an alarming rate. Health and Human services Secretary Tommy Thompson joins us with his first interview about this mystery illness and what's being done to protect Americans. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can't say exactly where we are, but what is roughly our relation to the capital, Baghdad?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say that we're pretty close and Saddam can hear us knocking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: One explosion has just been heard in Baghdad. We're going to turn -- that is, of course, the picture of the skyline at night of Baghdad. It is now nine hours earlier than here. The anti-aircraft fire is now being heard, and we will be monitoring that very carefully and bringing it to you as events warrant.
The rescued prisoner of war, Jessica Lynch, arrived in Germany for medical treatment tonight just a little over an hour ago.
She arrived at Ramstein Air Base where she will be treated at a military hospital before she returns home. Private Lynch has several gunshot wounds. She has two broken legs. Doctors say she is in stable condition. She was rescued in A -- it was just a remarkable rescue by special operations forces in the Iraqi town of Nasiriya last night ten days after she was reported missing.
British marines near Basra today found a torture chamber that was abandoned by Saddam Hussein's secret police. The marines found electric cables, meat hooks, and dozens of identity cards thought to belong to people who were tortured to death. British reporter Clive Myrie has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLIVE MYRIE, BBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outside a police station in southern Iraq stands a mural of this country's leader. Saddam Hussein's dreaded internal security police were based here.
This cabinet is locked. Saddam's portrait adorned every room. Not anymore. And downstairs, cells. This one barely four feet by eight with no windows and a filthy pillow and mattress.
In other rooms, hooks hang from the ceiling. This room is bare but for two old tires and an electricity cable. We are later told a torturer might use the tires to stand on while water is poured on the floor and the prisoner electrocuted.
And in this room, the identity cards of scores of Iraqi men aged between 20 and 40. It's a crime here not to have your ID card with you at all times. Why do these men no longer need theirs?
We later found one man who didn't want to be identified who gave up some of the secrets of the police station. He tells me there was a tariff system. If you committed a crime but paid enough money, you wouldn't be tortured. We spent days trying to find more people willing to speak on the record about torture in Saddam Hussein's Iraq. This man would only talk to us within the safety of a Royal Marines commando base.
And if he was a prison guard and Saddam Hussein walked into his jail? "I'd cut him into 50 pieces," he tells me. In the distance, the smoke rises from a battlefield. Iraq's tools of repression are being taken away.
Clive Myrie in Abu al Qsib, southern Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Clive Myrie of the BBC. Coming up next here, some of the most intense fighting of the war has taken place in Basra.
We'll have the latest on that battle as the British marines encircle the city of Basra. U. S. Marines are advancing up the Tigris valley, headed toward Baghdad. Martin Savidge is with the First Marines. He'll have the report.
Americans angry at the French for not supporting the coalition and supporting instead Saddam Hussein. That attitude may turn out to be a very expensive decision on the Part of Jacques Chirac. Bill Tucker will have our report. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush today met with his top national security advisers. Senior White House Correspondent John King has the report. John?
JOHN KING, SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, as you've been reporting, obviously a dramatic and daring rescue of Private First Class Jessica Lynch. And you would think perhaps the president of the United States would be involved in such a decision. The White House today, though, saying not directly.
We have a photograph released by the White House of the conversations with the president and his national security team this morning. We are told he received an update on the rescue operation at this meeting. It was in similar conversations yesterday that we are told the president, as his press secretary put it, received a hint that such an operation was in the works.
Other senior officials telling us the president was told the military was preparing a rescue operation if the moment was right in the view of the commanding generals in the field.
But Ari Fleischer, the White House press secretary, saying, yes, the president was informed, generally, of this upcoming mission, but he says it was not something that required or received direct presidential approval.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president has made it very clear to the commanders and to Tommy Franks that Tommy Franks makes the calls about the tactics and the timing of the operations. That is how the President thinks wars are won.
The president has said repeatedly the White House will not micromanage the war. That is exactly why you have generals and admirals and experts, to guide the war and run the war in the way that they believe is the best way to run it.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
KING: The economy also on the president's mind today. A meeting here at the White House, his Treasury Secretary John Snow on hand, as well as roughly a dozen leading wall street economists.
Mr. Bush asking for their help in selling the Bush tax cut. Obviously, the Senate has scaled the Bush tax cut back by more than half. The House has given the president the more than $700 billion tax cut he wants.
A compromise agreement now will be negotiated. The president asking for help. White House officials saying the president still wants all of what he is asking for, more than $700 billion. Privately, though, they concede perhaps somewhere in the area of $500 billion tax cut is the best they will be able to get in those compromise negotiations now getting under way on Capitol Hill.
Also some issues with members of Congress including the president's friends, the Republican leadership, on the wartime emergency spending plan. Congress has put in more money for airlines than the White House would like. There are some in Congress who want to strip out money for Turkey.
So those negotiations continuing as well, Lou, as the president keeps track moment to moment of war developments inside Iraq.
DOBBS: John, as you report, nearly every day from the White House, this president has this nation facing almost unprecedented challenges simultaneously. I'm going to ask you a question that we don't often turn to here, but "USA Today" ran, I thought, a remarkable story on a president who is burdened and the way in which he's coping.
And I was wondering what your assessment is as to how the president is holding up and handling this burden, these burdens.
KING: We are told by several officials that they thought that article was a bit too downbeat, saying the president is burdened. We are told the president, of course, carries the burden of knowing he is sending young men and women into combat. Tomorrow he will meet at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, with family members of some of those who have been killed in this operation.
So obviously it is not an easy time for the president of the United States. But we are told by senior aids that the president remains quite focused, that at times he still has his sense of humor, he is sticking to a workout routine, obviously his schedule is longer throughout the day.
Aides routinely describe him, Lou, as focused on his work, as well aware of the gravity of the situation, but they say they don't notice him down in any noticeable way at all. They say the President is even at times rallying the spirits of his staff if he believes that they're down.
DOBBS: John King, thank you very much. John King, our senior white house correspondent.
The advance on Baghdad brings us to tonight's poll question. In the balance between the safety of troops in the field and military objectives, how much care is the coalition exercising in preventing civilian deaths in your judgment? An appropriate amount? Not enough? Or too much? Cast your vote at cnn.com/moneyline. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast. British tanks today fired on suspected Iraqi positions on the outskirts of Basra after a checkpoint came under mortar fire. British forces are continuing their siege against Basra as U. S. Forces advance toward Baghdad. Tim Ewart of ITN reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TIM EWART, ITN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are soldiers of the U. S. Third Infantry fighting near Karbala, southwest of Baghdad. They're facing Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard, his finest soldiers. But for all the resistance, coalition aircraft rule the skies, and coalition technology is overwhelmingly superior. U. S. commanders believe the republican guard is a doomed force.
BRIG. GEN. VINCENT BROOKS, U. S. CENTRAL COMMAND: We will approach Baghdad. The dagger is clearly pointed at the heart of the regime right now and will remain pointed at it until the regime is gone.
To the south, more black smoke over the town of Basra. British troops control the outskirts of the town and today destroyed another building they said housed Iraqi fighters. There is much fear here of the Saddam loyalists who still hold sway in Basra and of the invading troops waiting at the gates.
EWART (on camera): The Americans are racing towards Baghdad. The British still seem anxious to make their progress here as measured as possible. Basra will fall. But there may first be fighting in the capital, 250 miles to the north. Tim Ewart, ITV News, southern Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And at this hour in Basra the British marines continue sporadic firefights in and around Basra.
The 1st Marine Division is advancing to Baghdad. They are moving up the Tigris valley. The Division has destroyed every Iraqi unit in its path, including a Republican Guard division. Martin Savidge with the 1st Battalion 7th Marines has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: 1st Battalion, 7th Marines, which we are a part of, have been on the move since this morning, moving now over 80 kilometers, heading in the general direction of north.
As you know, the U. S. Marines moving up on the eastern side of Iraq as part of this movement, focusing in the general direction towards Baghdad. The First Battalion, Seventh Marines are the only ones, as you can tell, on the highway today in this part of the country. It is literally bumper to bumper traffic of Marine hardware, troops, ammunition, artillery, APCs, tanks, all moving in the general direction north.
So far, no major opposition that we have encountered. No sounds of any fighting. The only artillery we've heard is outgoing artillery coming from Marine guns themselves. So it appears, at least from our perspective, that the marines are moving forward, closing in on the Baghdad area without running into major opposition at this point.
And the supplies and everything this fighting force needs continues to roll right along with it, Apparently not suffering any opposition from paramilitary units as well.
Martin Savidge, CNN, with the 1rst Battalion, 7th Marines in central Iraq.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
DOBBS: And right now in the skies over Baghdad apparent quiet. Just moments ago, an explosion was heard in Baghdad. Anti-aircraft fire was heard as well. And we will continue to monitor, obviously, the skyline of Baghdad tonight.
Coming up next, Iraqi resistance in northern Iraq is diminishing after continued pounding by coalition forces. Ben Wedeman will have the latest for us.
Also, more cases of the mysterious illness known as SARS have been discovered in this country. We'll be talking with the Secretary of Health and Human Services, Tommy Thompson, about public health officials' plans to deal with this illness.
Also, the United Nations' Oil-for-Food Programme may soon resume in Iraq.
Peter Viles will have a special report on how French companies have benefited from this controversial aid program. That and more still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: U.S. troops continue to advance on Baghdad tonight. Some U.S. forces could be on Baghdad's southern outskirts by early tomorrow. As forces move forward, they are encountering less-than- expected resistance, but the Pentagon is warning that the toughest battles certainly lie ahead.
In this country, a victory for patients in the Supreme Court today. The court ruled that states can force managed care health providers and plans to open up their networks of doctors. This ruling allows patients to choose a doctor from outside a health plan's network. HMOs argued that having doctors under exclusive contracts saved them money.
As U.S. troops advance on Baghdad, stocks advanced on Wall Street. Investors, cheered by progress in the war, sending the Dow Jones industrials 213 points higher. The Nasdaq gained 45.
Coalition forces tonight are consolidating around Baghdad. Air strikes are still pounding targets north of the city, preparing a second front, apparently. Ben Wedeman is near the northern city of Kalak and has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Retreat cut short. Iraqi army trucks smolder on the road to Mosul, shattered by American missiles. The trucks were hauling ammunition and now-useless antiaircraft guns.
Unexploded mortar rounds litter the road, as do the simple possessions of what, by all accounts, were reluctant soldiers.
Kurdish fighters found plenty of leftover war booty. A villager shows us the Iraqi army gas mask he picked up -- and what he thinks of it.
Some things the Iraqis left behind were more welcome, like this disabled truck, quickly commandeered with the help of a tractor.
Or this.
(on camera): This is the file of the Iraqi army that shows the placement of land mines in this area.
(voice-over): There are hundreds of them around here, says Ahmed, the mine clearer.
Further up the road, Kurds stop Arabs from Mosul and question them about the whereabouts of the Iraqi troops. Their cars searched for weapons.
"All love for the leader, Saddam Hussein," says this graffiti. If there was love, it left with the Iraqi army.
(on camera): In the space of just a few hours, Kurdish fighters were able to advance more than 13 miles on the road to Mosul, pursuing an Iraqi army showing all the signs of demoralization.
"None of the Iraqi soldiers want to fight," says Sabast Babiri (ph), commander of the local Kurdish forces, "but they're afraid of the execution squads and the Fedayeen Saddam."
U.S. troops on a rooftop in the Kurdish village of Kanelin (ph), until Tuesday, under Iraqi control. No hesitation here to celebrate the end of Ba'athist rule.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am very happy. Very happy. It is freedom. Saddam is dictator. It is -- it is bad man.
WEDEMAN: The Americans directed air strikes, but, according to the Kurds, didn't fire a shot.
Kurdish troops move into the old Iraqi positions, but, they say, they won't stay here for long. Their plans are to keep on moving, slowly but steadily, to the south.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Kanelin, northern Iraq. (END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Now turning again to our MONEYLINE poll question, how much care is the coalition exercising to prevent civilian deaths, trying to balance concern for troops' safety and achieving military objectives? An appropriate amount, not enough, or too much? Cast your vote at cnn.com/moneyline. We'll have the preliminary results coming up later in the broadcast.
A few weeks ago, we introduced you to country singer Darryl Worley on this broadcast. Some radio stations had at that point refused to play his pro-American song, "Have You Forgotten?"
It is now the number one country song in the nation. And Monday night, Darryl Worley was awarded an American flag for his patriotism and his support of the troops. That flag was one of several flown at the Pentagon on the first anniversary of September 11. Worley's album, "Have You Forgotten?" goes into stores on the 15th of April, we're told.
Turning now to the mystery illness known as SARS, or severe acute respiratory syndrome, it continues to spread unchecked.
Just since last night, the number of deaths worldwide has jumped from 62 to 78. The number of infections has moved from 1,800 to more than 2,200. The number of suspected infections in this country jumped from 62 to 85. There have still been no deaths in this country.
The Centers for Disease Control is 90 percent, 90 percent, certain that it's identified the virus behind SARS, but warns that this outbreak is far from over.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JULIE GERBERDING, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL: This does appear to be a contagious respiratory infection, and you know how difficult it is to control the common cold. Even influenza, where we have a vaccine, is an illness that still causes infection in a large number of people. So I think the global community has to take this very seriously and do everything we can to curtail spread now and stay on top of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Joining me now to discuss the SARS outbreak in this country and around the world is the secretary of the Department of Health and Human services, Tommy Thompson. Mr. Secretary, good to have you here.
TOMMY THOMPSON, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: It's always a pleasure, Lou. How are you?
DOBBS: Very well, sir. Thank you.
The -- this outbreak has a lot of people wondering not only what it is, but just how seriously -- how much concern should be placed on it, because of the number of deaths that have occurred. What is your best judgment?
THOMPSON: Well, Lou, there's no question, this is very serious. I was -- spent the day yesterday at CDC headquarters in Atlanta and had a chance to view all the findings by the laboratory scientists and doctors. And I want to tell you and tell America that we are very fortunate in this great country to have the best doctors and researchers in the world, I believe, at CDC. They do an excellent job.
But they're very worried. And they have pretty much analyzed that this is the corona virus, which is the virus of the common cold, and as Julie -- Dr. Julie Gerberding just said, you know it's difficult to control the cold. Well, this is part of that family of viruses that creates the common cold. And this is a little bit more virulent. About 4 percent of the cases end up in death.
So you've got to realize that we are very concerned about it. And this is something that we're going to do everything we possibly can, as the Department and public health, to be able to find, first, a test to determine who has it, secondly to find a way to control it, and third to find a vaccine or an antiviral drug that will be able to prevent it.
DOBBS: Mr. Secretary, a number of people early on, at the outset of this disease, started talking about influenza epidemics, started talking about the possibility of a pandemic worldwide. The World Health Organization has reacted quickly, the CDC, your department. Is there a prospect here, a realistic prospect of a pandemic?
THOMPSON: Well, we certainly don't want to alarm the world, or the country, or anybody at this point in time. It's too early to tell. It's something that we -- it's -- we're very concerned about. It's a brand-new strain we haven't seen before. And we have to find out how contagious it is, and how we're going to control it and treat it.
Hopefully, this is something that's going to have a very short livelihood and be able to be controlled very quickly. And if we can do that, then, of course, we won't have a pandemic at all. We won't even have an epidemic, or even a very serious illness.
But right now, we're treating this as very serious, very contagious, and something that we have to do everything we possibly can to find a way to control and treat it. And we're doing everything we possibly can to do that, Lou.
DOBBS: This coronal virus, Mr. Secretary, the outbreak apparently began last year in a province of China and then migrated to Hong Kong. The World Health Organization...
THOMPSON: That is correct.
DOBBS: The World Health Organization reacted, however, very quickly, as soon as it was detected outside of Hong Kong. They deserve immense credit here for alerting medical practitioners to this potential problem, right? THOMPSON: There is no question at all that the World Health Organization did an excellent job. But I also want to point out, the CDC played an integral part with the World Health Organization and the department in doing this. We were meeting with the deputy minister of health. I met with him, I think, about three weeks ago in trying to get more support and cooperation in China.
And we had not had that kind of support or cooperation until yesterday. And now we're able to go into the Guangdong Province. This is a province right adjacent to Hong Kong, and this is where most of the cases started from.
And then an individual doctor who was treating people in Guangdong Province went into the Mirapol (ph) Hotel in Kwanloon (ph), a suburb of Hong Kong, and infected about seven other individuals, who went to Hanoi, Bangkok, and Singapore and Toronto, where the disease was spread by these carriers.
So it's been very contagious. But we're trying now to work in cooperation with the World Health Organization, with the Chinese, and find ways how it started, and how we might be able to detect it and control it and treat it.
DOBBS: Give us -- because as you said, the last thing anyone wants to do is unnecessarily alarm anyone here, and your department has been working to make certain every assessment is prudent, but at the same time vigorous, on this disease.
THOMPSON: Very much so.
DOBBS: Characterize where we are as we wrap up here. We're out of time, Mr. Secretary. I apologize. But if you would just tell us where we are.
THOMPSON: Well, right now, we're asking people that are traveling or intending to travel to Hong Kong and China, especially to Guangdong Province, to delay those travels. We're also giving people information who are coming in from Asia, any information if they become sick, how to control it. And if people are sick, we try to isolate them until we find out for sure if they are having SARS.
DOBBS: Secretary Tommy Thompson, thank you, sir, for being here.
THOMPSON: It's my pleasure.
DOBBS: Good luck.
We have two stories tonight on the French connection and its link to the war against Saddam Hussein.
First, the controversial United Nations Oil-for-Food Programme. The United Nations is beginning that program, but with one major change. For the next six weeks, the United Nations will bypass the Iraqi government and deliver aid directly to the Iraqi people.
Among the major beneficiaries of this program over the years has been the French companies that supply much of the goods going into Iraq.
Peter Viles has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's no wonder the French are gratified. Over the years, the French and the Russians have been Saddam Hussein's favorite U.N. sanctions suppliers under the Oil-for-Food Programme. Effective Friday, Saddam has been cut out of the program. But for seven years, his government controlled the spending of 59 percent of the oil-for-food money, and 82 percent of money for humanitarian aid.
From 1996 to 2000, his favorite suppliers, France and Russia. They each sold Iraq roughly $2 billion in goods, and not necessarily food. Electrical components, spare parts for oil production. In recent years, Saddam used the program to cultivate regional allies -- Egypt, Jordan, and, notably, Syria.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems like at the beginning, he was leaning very heavily toward France and Russia. And I think, in fact, they may still be the largest suppliers. But he then started to shift the business around a little bit when it seemed more politically expedient for him to do that.
VILES: Another French connection. For years, the U.N. chose the French bank BNP Paribas to manage the multibillion-dollar oil-for-food account. The bank telling CNN, quote, "Our client is the United Nations, and the United Nations has asked us not to speak to the press about this."
And the U.N., in fact, confirms that its policy is secrecy, telling CNN, quote, "It is a long-standing policy not to disclose the names of banks where funds are deposited."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: Now, the U.N. will tell you that these programs are regularly audited by an outside auditor. There's a very big catch here. The outside auditor is the U.N.'s own board of auditors. That's a three-member panel. It is chaired this year, Lou, by a French auditing official, Lou.
DOBBS: Pete, thank you very much. Peter Viles.
Tensions between France and the United States continue to grow. And Congress is speaking up with a bill introduced that would ban French companies from obtaining postwar reconstruction projects in Iraq.
Bill Tucker has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A lot of wine has been spilt, but a great deal more is at stake, and the American-French relationship is irreversibly changed in the minds of many.
JOHN HULSMAN, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Things have been so alienated between the United States and France, they're so estranged, that the idea that the United States is going to let the U.N. run Iraq in such a way that France will have a veto over American actions in a postwar Iraq is, frankly, laughable.
TUCKER: The French don't have to wait for a postwar Iraq to see the repercussions of their actions. In Congress, legislation is shaping up in the House of Representatives to forbid French companies from winning any reconstruction contracts in a postwar Iraq.
And at least one congressman wants to cancel an eight-year contract signed with the French company Sodexho last October, worth $881 million, to feed U.S. Marines.
REP. JACK KINGSTON (R), GEORGIA: France has made a national sport about bashing America for the last four months, and what we're saying is, you know, probably should be some consequences, particularly when they're not doing anything that's unique that you can't find American companies that are able to do the same thing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: And as if problems in the States weren't enough, this week a former president of French oil giant TOTAL Fina testified to paying millions of dollars in bribes to the political parties of both Chirac and Mitterand in order to curry political favor. That same president, Lou, is also on trial for misusing $145 million in political funds, Lou.
DOBBS: Bill Tucker. Thank you very much.
Coming up next, the backlash against France makes its way to Capitol Hill. A new bill would chuck French companies out of postwar Iraq. Congressman Jim Saxton is one of the sponsors, and he will be my guest next.
Then, despite falling share prices at some U.S. companies, CEOs -- well, they still enjoy robust pay packages, to say the least. Some would call them excessive. Christine Romans will report.
And the battle for Iraq stretches across land and water. We'll go inside the battle for control of the water tonight.
All of that and more still ahead here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our next guest is the congressman who introduced the bill that would ban French companies from winning reconstruction contracts in Iraq. Congressman Jim Saxton joins us now from Capitol Hill.
Congressman, good to have you here.
REP. JIM SAXTON (R), NEW JERSEY: Thank you, Lou. DOBBS: You're -- this bill designed purely to punish the French government for its opposition to the U.S. government and the coalition?
SAXTON: It wasn't originally designed as a punishment, no. It was originally designed during the time we were so-called negotiating with the French and others in the United Nations to try to let the French government know that we were serious, that there could be repercussions, and that they should cooperate back during that time.
However, it has taken on a new life here in recent weeks. And I have been joined by Congressman Nethercutt and Congressman Kingston, who I believe you just had on your previous segment...
DOBBS: Correct.
SAXTON: ... in moving forward tomorrow an amendment which embodies the language of my bill as an amendment to the appropriations bill that will pass tomorrow or Friday.
DOBBS: Congressman Saxton, there are those who would say that this is dangerous stuff, punishing countries and governments for their political judgments. What do you say to those critics?
SAXTON: Well, the French attitude has been more than bad judgment. The French have gone out of their way to try to make life difficult for us after having been attacked on September 11, knowing that Saddam Hussein was one of the -- the leader of a country that supported the very people who attacked our country.
And as time has gone on, they have continued the process of advancing that message, and, in fact, went out of their way to try to spread their influence over other countries.
The most harmful example may be Turkey and their decision not to cooperate, which, of course, has -- the results of which have been seen on television almost every day since the war began.
DOBBS: I understand you received a letter from the French ambassador. Can you share that with us?
SAXTON: Well, I can share the general content of it. He -- it was a three-page letter. He said that they were friends, that the French government was a friendly government to the United States, that they wanted to continue to work with the United States. But the evidence is obviously otherwise.
As a matter of fact, Lou, I was visited by a French friend of mine just this week, who brought me a stack of literature. Perhaps one example of that is a magazine called "The Observatore" (ph) which talks about the current situation in Iraq as the Iraq, "The Traps of a Crazy War." This is the general French government, and apparently the press', attitude there.
They go -- and the article inside, it talks about the "insane ones of God," referring to President Bush, and it goes on to say that they are crazy and don't have an ounce of judgment.
So this is the kind of attitude that we're -- we have seen and continue to see from the French government, and they need to know that we don't appreciate it, and that we're serious about moving forward with some programs that may be costly to them.
DOBBS: Accountability, Congressman Saxton. It sounds like a bill that will have a test very soon as to what kind of support it has. We thank you very much for being with us to share your views.
SAXTON: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Congressman Jim Saxton.
Coming up next here, CEOs riding out a war in high style. Christine Romans will have a special report for us on some of the worst-performing companies. CEOs are getting new pay packages worth millions and millions of dollars -- a war notwithstanding, performance of their companies notwithstanding.
Also tonight...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID BOWDEN, SKY NEWS (voice-over): These men are all specially trained to fight on or from the water. But here in the marshlands of southern Iraq, so are the enemy. And they're good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Coming at Iraq from land, air, and sea. Mark Bowden will have an up-close look at the battle taking place on the water.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Let's take a look at the night skies over Baghdad. Just about an hour ago, antiaircraft fire, one explosion. It remains, however, quiet at this hour over Baghdad. And we will continue to watch the skies over Baghdad for you and bring that to you as developments warrant.
Airlines and other U.S. companies didn't do well last year, but it was anything but a bad year for the CEOs.
Christine Romans has the report on executive compensation. Some would call it excessive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Run the richest country in the world, earn $400,000. Run a war, just about $140,000. Run a company into the ground -- that's worth millions.
Despite shareholder outrage and free-falling stock prices, 2002 was a good year for CEOs. A survey of 180 large companies shows median CEO pay rose 9 percent last year, bonuses up 24 percent, long- term incentives soared more than 20 percent.
CAROL BOWIE, INVESTOR RESPONSIBILITY RESEARCH CENTER: You're talking about a group of people who have a lot of influence over how they are paid and how much they are paid. They have established certain lifestyles and so on that they, you know, need to finance. And so it really takes a lot to lower CEO pay.
ROMANS: Consider these fat paychecks. Not including options. Delta CEO Leo Mullin made $2.2 million in pay and another $2 million in restricted stock. Lucent shares tumbled 75 percent, but CEO Patricia Russo took home $2.7 million in pay and $11 million in restricted stock.
And don't forget the golden parachute. EDS ousted chairman and CEO Richard Brown after a terrible year. It'll pay him a $12.4 million severance -- that's before $5 million in stock and a monthly pension worth almost $20 million.
Governance experts say compensation committees are on alert.
GEORGE PAULIN, PRESIDENT, FREDERICK W. COOK: They are very carefully looking at how CEOs are compensated, and much more carefully, by the way, than they have in recent prior years.
ROMANS: There are small signs of progress. Delta's Mullin took a base pay cut this year of 10 percent. Eli Lilly's CEO took a salary of just $1 last year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: One of Wall Street's most respected CEOs, Warren Buffett, says it's time for a hard look at pay and perks. Reining in pay is the acid test of corporate reform. And for the record, Lou, his base salary, $100,000, Lou.
DOBBS: And he still manages to live pretty well, doesn't he?
ROMANS: Oh, he does, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
DOBBS: Christine Romans, thank you very much.
Coming up next here, we'll have the results of the MONEYLINE poll.
We'll also tell you about a group of British fighters who could well be nicknamed the Swamp Rats. That story and more still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The preliminary results of our poll tonight. The question, how much care is the coalition exercising in preventing civilian deaths, balancing troop security and military objectives? Forty-six percent of you said an appropriate amount, 11 percent of you said not enough, 43 percent said too much. We'll have the final results on that poll for you tomorrow evening.
In southeastern Iraq, Royal Marines from 539 Squadron are engaged in a battle that's starkly different from the desert war just a few miles away.
David Bowden of Britain's Sky News has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID BOWDEN, SKY NEWS (voice-over): So far, the focus of the war in Iraq has been on the land and air battle for strategic towns and cities. But here in the south, much of the fighting occurs on or around the thousands of tiny waterways which dissect the landscape.
And for the Royal Marines, that means work for 539 Squadron. These men are all specially trained to fight on or from the water. But here in the marshlands of southern Iraq, so are the enemy. And they're good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Although it looks muddy here, 10 to 20 feet in, they (UNINTELLIGIBLE) around the corner waiting for you.
BOWDEN: Intelligence reports indicate Iraqi special forces may be operating in the reedbeds in the region to the southeast of Basra. Much of the time, for the boats of 539, it's a deadly game of cat and mouse. The waterways, thick with the stench of oil, are strewn with derelict and aging Iraqi vessels. Some are crewed, others are abandoned. Always suspicion for the British troops who patrol here.
(on camera): The dangers these men face in these reeds have already been tragically demonstrated. One man was killed and three others injured when their boat was attacked by Iraqi militia in a waterway near Al Zubaya (ph).
All the men of 539 know their war is against an elusive enemy which can strike and disappear almost at will. But all know, too, their war must be won if the south of Iraq is ever to be safe.
David Bowden, Sky News, on the Qar (ph) Al Zubaya in southern Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
I'm Lou Dobbs in New York. Thanks for being with us.
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