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CNN Live Today

Baghdad's Airport Seized

Aired April 04, 2003 - 11:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The seizure of Baghdad's airport also a big development today, and that's very important in terms of psychological and strategic importance.
Let's talk about all of this with retired Air Force Colonel Mike Turner, who's in Denver this morning.

Colonel Turner, good to have you with us this morning.

First off, any reaction at all to the words we just played from the Iraqi minister there, when he says something about, or threatens or intimates something of an unconventional tactic being used here. What do you think that means?

COL. MIKE TURNER, (RET.) AIR FORCE: Well, it could mean anything. You don't telegraph your punch when you're planning something like that. So it seems strange that he would tell us in advance that they were planning some sort of an operation. It could simply be empty rhetoric for some internal audience that we're not aware of.

On the other hand, as the options of the remnants of the regime become fewer and fewer, their threshold to use unconventional means, up to and including weapons of mass destruction becomes and lower, simply because they don't have the resources to be able to respond to the tightening noose around their necks and around Baghdad. And they need to get the maximum bang for the buck, if you will, and that drives them to unconventional weapons and unconventional means.

So it comes at the time when you expect something like that. We'll just have to wait and see how it flows out.

HARRIS: And right and cue, when you said bang for the buck, what we're seeing right now in video is some of the newest, freshest video we got coming back from the fighting around the Baghdad airport, now Baghdad International Airport. And you can see some of the fighting that's going on there. What do you make of that capture, and why is it so important?

TURNER: The control of the airhead in Baghdad international, Baghdad City, is crucial, because it allows us to establish an air bridge and respond much more fluidly and flexibly with cargo aircraft to bring in heavy equipment, to bring in more troops, to bring in humanitarian supplies, food, fuel, the whole gamut of what's necessary to feed a military operation.

You'll recall the famous battle at Kason (ph) in Vietnam, where the Marines were surrounded and they held on against an onslaught, because they established a C-130 air bridge that was continuous 24/7 into that air head. It's a crucial target. Really gives the occupying forces a lot of latitude and lot of options to move from this point out, which is why it's one of the early targets.

HARRIS: Let me ask you to play psychologist here also this morning. It seems strange we did also this morning see another tape played of Saddam Hussein. And in this tape this morning, the one that was played a while ago, he did make a reference, or if that was him in the tape, I should say, a reference was made to the downing of an Apache helicopter a little while ago. So whoever did write that speech, or read that speech, did so well after March 19th when all of this began.

Do you think there's a connection with the capture of this? the appearance of coalition troops, inside that red line, or that ring around Baghdad and all of a sudden now a statement coming from Saddam Hussein?

TURNER: Absolutely. What you'll begin to see. I mentioned this to Paula earlier. As we funnel down the available options to the regime to respond, you will begin to see a lot more, I believe, of these unpredictable sort of pop-up circumstances and events that occur, some of which are just propaganda and rhetoric, and others of which may have substance.

And it puts us on our guard which is what, of course, they're intended to do. And as the noose gets tighter and tighter, you'll see more of these and they're probably more frequent and closer together.

HARRIS: So what do you think happens next? Is it a matter of sitting there and smoking these guys out, waiting for the Guard to collapse, or waiting for the regime to collapse here, or is it now time to start talking about making the move and going house to house?

TURNER: That's a key question, and the illusion by some of the men in the field that we're watching how Al Nasiriyah and Najaf and Basra developed as a template for how to bring down Baghdad. There's no question that we have a very detailed, patient deliberate plan to reduce Baghdad and overthrow the regime. With the developments in the south, we're learning as we go to a certain extent. I have every expectation that we will follow the plan, but we will all do it in a very deliberate way, too -- and we will only move when General Franks is ready for us to move. Obviously civilian casualties being the biggest concern.

HARRIS: Yes, civilian casualties is a big concern, but do you know something else as well, the more and more I read about it, it appears if they do get into a situation where they are going house to house, does that also raise the possibility of friendly-fire incidents becoming just as big a problem as civilian casualties?

TURNER: Everything in an urban warfare environment is more dangerous and more complex. There are simply too many options for the enemy to pursue, and too many options for friendly forces to try and work with. So it becomes far, far more complex. Friendly fire incidents can increase. Civilian deaths can increase. It's just more dangerous, which of course is why I'm sure the Central Command planners have so carefully planned and deliberately planned this move into the urban center. I wouldn't even begin to know what the plan is to do that, since it's such an extraordinarily, complex problem. But it's very dangerous, and they will take it a step at a time.

HARRIS: Finally, let me ask you this, with word coming of 2,500 Republican Guard troops turning themselves in. These were supposed to be the most hardened, the best trained troops that Saddam Hussein has. Is this a signal of perhaps the end for him?

TURNER: Could be. It absolutely could be. Remember, we have to put that in context. Discipline and well-trained Republican Guard troops does not equate to disciplined and well-trained U.S. troops. There is a gulf of difference. And we use those terms in relativistic when we deal with the Republican Guard.

But, absolutely, when you have mass desertions of that magnitude by one of their elite units, that could be a definite signal that things are really starting to collapse inside the regime.

HARRIS: Things are starting to happen fast. We're glad to have you with us to watch and observe them. Colonel Mike Turner, appreciate it. Take care.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired April 4, 2003 - 11:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The seizure of Baghdad's airport also a big development today, and that's very important in terms of psychological and strategic importance.
Let's talk about all of this with retired Air Force Colonel Mike Turner, who's in Denver this morning.

Colonel Turner, good to have you with us this morning.

First off, any reaction at all to the words we just played from the Iraqi minister there, when he says something about, or threatens or intimates something of an unconventional tactic being used here. What do you think that means?

COL. MIKE TURNER, (RET.) AIR FORCE: Well, it could mean anything. You don't telegraph your punch when you're planning something like that. So it seems strange that he would tell us in advance that they were planning some sort of an operation. It could simply be empty rhetoric for some internal audience that we're not aware of.

On the other hand, as the options of the remnants of the regime become fewer and fewer, their threshold to use unconventional means, up to and including weapons of mass destruction becomes and lower, simply because they don't have the resources to be able to respond to the tightening noose around their necks and around Baghdad. And they need to get the maximum bang for the buck, if you will, and that drives them to unconventional weapons and unconventional means.

So it comes at the time when you expect something like that. We'll just have to wait and see how it flows out.

HARRIS: And right and cue, when you said bang for the buck, what we're seeing right now in video is some of the newest, freshest video we got coming back from the fighting around the Baghdad airport, now Baghdad International Airport. And you can see some of the fighting that's going on there. What do you make of that capture, and why is it so important?

TURNER: The control of the airhead in Baghdad international, Baghdad City, is crucial, because it allows us to establish an air bridge and respond much more fluidly and flexibly with cargo aircraft to bring in heavy equipment, to bring in more troops, to bring in humanitarian supplies, food, fuel, the whole gamut of what's necessary to feed a military operation.

You'll recall the famous battle at Kason (ph) in Vietnam, where the Marines were surrounded and they held on against an onslaught, because they established a C-130 air bridge that was continuous 24/7 into that air head. It's a crucial target. Really gives the occupying forces a lot of latitude and lot of options to move from this point out, which is why it's one of the early targets.

HARRIS: Let me ask you to play psychologist here also this morning. It seems strange we did also this morning see another tape played of Saddam Hussein. And in this tape this morning, the one that was played a while ago, he did make a reference, or if that was him in the tape, I should say, a reference was made to the downing of an Apache helicopter a little while ago. So whoever did write that speech, or read that speech, did so well after March 19th when all of this began.

Do you think there's a connection with the capture of this? the appearance of coalition troops, inside that red line, or that ring around Baghdad and all of a sudden now a statement coming from Saddam Hussein?

TURNER: Absolutely. What you'll begin to see. I mentioned this to Paula earlier. As we funnel down the available options to the regime to respond, you will begin to see a lot more, I believe, of these unpredictable sort of pop-up circumstances and events that occur, some of which are just propaganda and rhetoric, and others of which may have substance.

And it puts us on our guard which is what, of course, they're intended to do. And as the noose gets tighter and tighter, you'll see more of these and they're probably more frequent and closer together.

HARRIS: So what do you think happens next? Is it a matter of sitting there and smoking these guys out, waiting for the Guard to collapse, or waiting for the regime to collapse here, or is it now time to start talking about making the move and going house to house?

TURNER: That's a key question, and the illusion by some of the men in the field that we're watching how Al Nasiriyah and Najaf and Basra developed as a template for how to bring down Baghdad. There's no question that we have a very detailed, patient deliberate plan to reduce Baghdad and overthrow the regime. With the developments in the south, we're learning as we go to a certain extent. I have every expectation that we will follow the plan, but we will all do it in a very deliberate way, too -- and we will only move when General Franks is ready for us to move. Obviously civilian casualties being the biggest concern.

HARRIS: Yes, civilian casualties is a big concern, but do you know something else as well, the more and more I read about it, it appears if they do get into a situation where they are going house to house, does that also raise the possibility of friendly-fire incidents becoming just as big a problem as civilian casualties?

TURNER: Everything in an urban warfare environment is more dangerous and more complex. There are simply too many options for the enemy to pursue, and too many options for friendly forces to try and work with. So it becomes far, far more complex. Friendly fire incidents can increase. Civilian deaths can increase. It's just more dangerous, which of course is why I'm sure the Central Command planners have so carefully planned and deliberately planned this move into the urban center. I wouldn't even begin to know what the plan is to do that, since it's such an extraordinarily, complex problem. But it's very dangerous, and they will take it a step at a time.

HARRIS: Finally, let me ask you this, with word coming of 2,500 Republican Guard troops turning themselves in. These were supposed to be the most hardened, the best trained troops that Saddam Hussein has. Is this a signal of perhaps the end for him?

TURNER: Could be. It absolutely could be. Remember, we have to put that in context. Discipline and well-trained Republican Guard troops does not equate to disciplined and well-trained U.S. troops. There is a gulf of difference. And we use those terms in relativistic when we deal with the Republican Guard.

But, absolutely, when you have mass desertions of that magnitude by one of their elite units, that could be a definite signal that things are really starting to collapse inside the regime.

HARRIS: Things are starting to happen fast. We're glad to have you with us to watch and observe them. Colonel Mike Turner, appreciate it. Take care.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com