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CNN Live Today

Interview With U.N. Humanitarian Official

Aired April 07, 2003 - 10:46   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Going to move away from the strategy of the war right now and what's happening in Baghdad and Basra, in the northern front as well, talk about the humanitarian situation. There are groups right now that are virtually on the borders with Iraq on a number of sides, Kuwait included, Jordan as well, ready to rush in and deliver massive amounts of supplies to the civilian population, but who needs it the most, and how will they get it? How critical is the situation right now within Iraq's borders?
David Wimhurst might know. He is in Amman, Jordan. He works for the U.N. office for coordination of humanitarian assistance. He's our guest now here on CNN.

David, take Iraq as a whole right now. Where is your biggest concern in that country?

DAVID WIMHURST, U.N. HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE: In the areas that had their power disrupted, where water supplies are down, where hospitals are filled to overflowing with war wounded, where medical supplies are running low. They are the critical issues at the moment.

HEMMER: I'm assuming you are thinking Baghdad right now, based on the reporting we are getting. Are there other cities...

(CROSSTALK)

WIMHURST: Not just Baghdad, but also south of Baghdad -- yes, Karbala, Hillah, in the south, Nasiriya. They have been cut off from the ICRC. The International Committee of the Red Cross wanted to get a convoy down to Hillah, where there were 300 people killed just very recently, women and children mostly. The hospital is in desperate need of medical supplies, but the bridge across river is gone, the route south out of Baghdad not safe, and they have had to cancel that convoy. So these are critical areas.

HEMMER: David, if the electricity is off, or it is even on/off in some of these hospitals, can anything be done on the outside, or coordination on the inside that may be able to relieve some of the crisis for the civilians?

WIMHURST: Yes. The United Nations has -- in Baghdad and in other areas, staff, local staff, Iraqi staff, who have been working throughout this crisis, and we have put in place with the hospitals portable generators, fuel bladders, supplies, to try and keep them running, knowing full well that if there is a bombing, the power supply can go down. Now as long as those generators hold out, that's fine. But if spare parts are needed or maintenance is needed, and that's going to become critical very quickly, we'll see power failures in the hospitals as well. We've already seen huge numbers of war wounded coming in, and some hospitals are overwhelmed.

HEMMER: I apologize -- I apologize for interruption there. What about the refugee crisis, David? It does not appear to have been of much substance to this point. I know there is large camp in eastern Jordan as of a week ago, but there are very few if any refugees that come out of Iraq. What does that tell you right now?

WIMHURST: It tells us that the people in Iraq, for whatever reason, reluctant to leave and seek refuge outside their own country. We don't know why specifically they are reluctant to leave, and it is very possible that even when this conflict is over, that is to say the shooting stops, we could still see large outflows of refugees. This happened in other conflicts, so we're ready here in Jordan and in other countries in the region to receive them.

HEMMER: David, let me just be a contrarian just for a moment here. What do you say to those who say that the aid organizations, prior to this conflict, blew the refugee crisis out of proportion?

WIMHURST: No, it's the responsibility of, particularly, the United Nations high commissioner for refugees to ensure that systems are in place to care for people who do cross borders and become refugees. They expected, they planned for substantial numbers. In the event those numbers have not materialized, we don't know why. But it was their responsibility to be ready, so there was no exaggerating the importance of the issue, they simply took their responsibilities seriously, and they still do, in case there are refugees.

HEMMER: All right. David, thanks. David Wimhurst in Amman, Jordan, with the U.N. Thanks and best of luck to you and your organization there, and your work going forward -- here is Paula in New York.

WIMHURST: Thank you.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Bill. U.S. officials say it sends a powerful message to the Iraqi regime, but from a strategic standpoint, how critical is the taking of the presidential palaces to the coalition?

For more on that, we're joined from Colorado Springs by Colonel Mike Turner. Always good to see you, thanks for staying with us this morning.

COL. MIKE TURNER (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: You bet, Paula.

ZAHN: From your perspective, what does it mean that this presidential palace has been secured militarily?

TURNER: Well, it's a major step, Paula, in securing the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. Our goal right now is as rapidly as possible to communicate to the Iraqi people that the regime is dead, that it's gone. That they can breathe easier, and that aid is on the way. Any trapping of social infrastructure or governmental building that we can secure to indicate to them conclusively and incontrovertibly that the regime is dead strikes a psychological blow within the civilian population that we want to convince them that the regime is dead.

So by taking that palace, it is a huge symbolic act. The images of that alone lead civilians to -- I mean, that one image will counter virtually everything the information minister may try to do today or tomorrow or in the next few days. So it is an enormous step forward in the psychological war that's going on right now.

ZAHN: I know making time line predictions is often kind of a dumb thing to try to do, but I'm just curious if you think in this case, this in any way reveals how much longer it might take to install a new government, the taking of this key presidential palace.

TURNER: Well, I think it does, and I think it is fair to say at this point that I obviously don't know what the schedule is, and I'm sure we won't be told by the military commanders, nor should we, but I think it's fair to say that with U.S. forces now operating with -- not impunity, but in a fairly aggressive way in downtown Baghdad, and then the capture of these key buildings, the death of Chemical Ali, I believe it was yesterday when that occurred, all of these things now are occurring at such an accelerated pace, and again, we see this cascading effect of the collapse of the regime, and now it's a race to convince the civilians -- we don't want a vacuum here. We don't want a social infrastructure vacuum. That is one of the reasons we secured Baghdad International so quickly, and we begun to see a C-130, and I suspect we'll begin to see C-17, which can bring in enormous amounts of supplies for the civilian population. All of these things now become integrated and interweaved into an effort to win over and convince the civilian population that, indeed, the regime is gone, and that better days are ahead in the very near term.

ZAHN: But in many ways, still the toughest job to do, convincing those civilians that the coalition forces are not invaders, but liberators. Colonel Mike Turner, as always, thanks for your insights. Appreciate it.

TURNER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired April 7, 2003 - 10:46   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Going to move away from the strategy of the war right now and what's happening in Baghdad and Basra, in the northern front as well, talk about the humanitarian situation. There are groups right now that are virtually on the borders with Iraq on a number of sides, Kuwait included, Jordan as well, ready to rush in and deliver massive amounts of supplies to the civilian population, but who needs it the most, and how will they get it? How critical is the situation right now within Iraq's borders?
David Wimhurst might know. He is in Amman, Jordan. He works for the U.N. office for coordination of humanitarian assistance. He's our guest now here on CNN.

David, take Iraq as a whole right now. Where is your biggest concern in that country?

DAVID WIMHURST, U.N. HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE: In the areas that had their power disrupted, where water supplies are down, where hospitals are filled to overflowing with war wounded, where medical supplies are running low. They are the critical issues at the moment.

HEMMER: I'm assuming you are thinking Baghdad right now, based on the reporting we are getting. Are there other cities...

(CROSSTALK)

WIMHURST: Not just Baghdad, but also south of Baghdad -- yes, Karbala, Hillah, in the south, Nasiriya. They have been cut off from the ICRC. The International Committee of the Red Cross wanted to get a convoy down to Hillah, where there were 300 people killed just very recently, women and children mostly. The hospital is in desperate need of medical supplies, but the bridge across river is gone, the route south out of Baghdad not safe, and they have had to cancel that convoy. So these are critical areas.

HEMMER: David, if the electricity is off, or it is even on/off in some of these hospitals, can anything be done on the outside, or coordination on the inside that may be able to relieve some of the crisis for the civilians?

WIMHURST: Yes. The United Nations has -- in Baghdad and in other areas, staff, local staff, Iraqi staff, who have been working throughout this crisis, and we have put in place with the hospitals portable generators, fuel bladders, supplies, to try and keep them running, knowing full well that if there is a bombing, the power supply can go down. Now as long as those generators hold out, that's fine. But if spare parts are needed or maintenance is needed, and that's going to become critical very quickly, we'll see power failures in the hospitals as well. We've already seen huge numbers of war wounded coming in, and some hospitals are overwhelmed.

HEMMER: I apologize -- I apologize for interruption there. What about the refugee crisis, David? It does not appear to have been of much substance to this point. I know there is large camp in eastern Jordan as of a week ago, but there are very few if any refugees that come out of Iraq. What does that tell you right now?

WIMHURST: It tells us that the people in Iraq, for whatever reason, reluctant to leave and seek refuge outside their own country. We don't know why specifically they are reluctant to leave, and it is very possible that even when this conflict is over, that is to say the shooting stops, we could still see large outflows of refugees. This happened in other conflicts, so we're ready here in Jordan and in other countries in the region to receive them.

HEMMER: David, let me just be a contrarian just for a moment here. What do you say to those who say that the aid organizations, prior to this conflict, blew the refugee crisis out of proportion?

WIMHURST: No, it's the responsibility of, particularly, the United Nations high commissioner for refugees to ensure that systems are in place to care for people who do cross borders and become refugees. They expected, they planned for substantial numbers. In the event those numbers have not materialized, we don't know why. But it was their responsibility to be ready, so there was no exaggerating the importance of the issue, they simply took their responsibilities seriously, and they still do, in case there are refugees.

HEMMER: All right. David, thanks. David Wimhurst in Amman, Jordan, with the U.N. Thanks and best of luck to you and your organization there, and your work going forward -- here is Paula in New York.

WIMHURST: Thank you.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Bill. U.S. officials say it sends a powerful message to the Iraqi regime, but from a strategic standpoint, how critical is the taking of the presidential palaces to the coalition?

For more on that, we're joined from Colorado Springs by Colonel Mike Turner. Always good to see you, thanks for staying with us this morning.

COL. MIKE TURNER (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: You bet, Paula.

ZAHN: From your perspective, what does it mean that this presidential palace has been secured militarily?

TURNER: Well, it's a major step, Paula, in securing the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. Our goal right now is as rapidly as possible to communicate to the Iraqi people that the regime is dead, that it's gone. That they can breathe easier, and that aid is on the way. Any trapping of social infrastructure or governmental building that we can secure to indicate to them conclusively and incontrovertibly that the regime is dead strikes a psychological blow within the civilian population that we want to convince them that the regime is dead.

So by taking that palace, it is a huge symbolic act. The images of that alone lead civilians to -- I mean, that one image will counter virtually everything the information minister may try to do today or tomorrow or in the next few days. So it is an enormous step forward in the psychological war that's going on right now.

ZAHN: I know making time line predictions is often kind of a dumb thing to try to do, but I'm just curious if you think in this case, this in any way reveals how much longer it might take to install a new government, the taking of this key presidential palace.

TURNER: Well, I think it does, and I think it is fair to say at this point that I obviously don't know what the schedule is, and I'm sure we won't be told by the military commanders, nor should we, but I think it's fair to say that with U.S. forces now operating with -- not impunity, but in a fairly aggressive way in downtown Baghdad, and then the capture of these key buildings, the death of Chemical Ali, I believe it was yesterday when that occurred, all of these things now are occurring at such an accelerated pace, and again, we see this cascading effect of the collapse of the regime, and now it's a race to convince the civilians -- we don't want a vacuum here. We don't want a social infrastructure vacuum. That is one of the reasons we secured Baghdad International so quickly, and we begun to see a C-130, and I suspect we'll begin to see C-17, which can bring in enormous amounts of supplies for the civilian population. All of these things now become integrated and interweaved into an effort to win over and convince the civilian population that, indeed, the regime is gone, and that better days are ahead in the very near term.

ZAHN: But in many ways, still the toughest job to do, convincing those civilians that the coalition forces are not invaders, but liberators. Colonel Mike Turner, as always, thanks for your insights. Appreciate it.

TURNER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com