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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
Coalition Forces Tighten Grip on Baghdad
Aired April 7, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Good evening. Coalition forces today tightened their grip on Baghdad and pounded the remnants of Saddam Hussein's army and militia.
Marines outside Baghdad today destroyed a bridge over a canal in the Southeastern outskirts of Baghdad. The bridge was damaged when it was shelled by Iraqi troops, engineering units then built a replacement bridge heavy enough to carry the armored vehicles. The units of the 3rd Infantry Division fought running battles with Iraqi forces as they advanced into Baghdad today. Bradley fighting vehicles shelled Iraqi positions along rivers and canals. Many of the Iraqi soldiers fled, some of them swimming the river.
Coalition commanders said there have been mass desertions by the Iraqi troops.
Coalition aircraft continued to bombard positions in northern Iraq today. Special forces and Kurdish troops are trying to cut the highway between Mosul and the region's oil capital, Kirkuk. Mosul is the largest city under complete Iraqi control.
British and American troops have destroyed more symbols of Saddam Hussein's regime. Soldiers in Basra pulled out a large statue of Saddam Hussein and troops in Baghdad destroyed a 40-foot high statue of Saddam Hussein riding a horse.
Coalition force tonight may have found the first evidence that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction. Soldiers of the 101st Airborne Division discovered suspicious substances 60 miles southeast of Baghdad. They could be nerve and blister agents.
Ryan Chilcote, with the 101st Airborne has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Soldiers from the 101st Airborne have been inspecting two sites for the presence of chemical agents. The first site an agricultural complex where they found a large weapons cache three days ago and also behind a building at that compound they also found two bunkers with several drums with some kind of chemical inside.
Well, today they brought the Fuchs vehicle, a very sophisticated sensitive vehicle for testing for the presence of chemical agents out there and got positives back for both blister agents and nerve agents. They're still not sure what they have, so they brought, bringing in another team of experts from the U.S. Army's 5th Corp. It is possible to get a false positive from pesticides. We spoke a short while ago with 101st General Benjamin Freakly about this issue, what did they find. This is what he had to say.
GEN. BENJAMIN FREAKLY, U.S. ARMY: This could be either some type of pesticide because this wasn't an agricultural compound, and the literature talked about dealing with mosquitoes and other type of airborne vermin. And was right along the Euphrates River, very close to the Euphrates River. But on the other hand, it could be a chemical agent, not weaponized.
CHILCOTE: That's not the only place they're testing. They've been testing at a military training complex in the same area. Sunday morning a group of U.S. Soldiers that were guarding that area said they felt sick. Among other things at that training complex they found a large number of chemical protective suits. That's why the 101st came in and did a series of test, testing for nerve agents. So far they don't believe there's anything more than insecticide in that area. The 101st saying those soldiers probably felt sick from heat exhaustion, because they've been on a long road march that day. All of the soldiers now say that they are feeling fine.
Ryan Chilcote, CNN, with the 101st, near Karbala, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Coalition forces will not stop until they've accomplished their mission in Iraq. But, he sounded a familiar note of caution saying the Coalition has a lot of work to do.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Baghdad soldiers from the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division entered two presidential palaces and rummaged around at will. The strategic value may have been limited but the symbolic message of these pictures is powerful. Because the "in your face" maneuver included Saddam Hussein's main presidential palace located on the banks of the Tigris River right in the heart of Baghdad.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Let me assure all Iraqis listening today that life without Saddam Hussein is not a distant dream. Coalition forces will not stop until they have accomplished their mission.
MCINTYRE: In the south, more signs of increasing Coalition control. British troops smashed into another of Saddam Hussein's palaces in Basra. And the top U.S. Commander, General Tommy Franks, also made a brief swing through southern Iraq to visit U.S. and British commanders. In Baghdad U.S. troops are still facing some determined resistance, but as U.S. heavy armor rumbled through the streets of Baghdad Monday the Republican Guard appeared to be in disarray no longer even organized in divisions. GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: I think the command control of the Republican Guards is at the point now where the most they can do are sporadic attacks from very small units.
MCINTYRE: The U.S. says of 800 battle tanks Iraq had before the war, only a handful are left. And the U.S. counts more than 7,000 enemy prisoners of war. And the Pentagon believes this air strike, the second shot against a villa in Basra Saturday, killed this man, Ali Hassam al-Majid, who the U.S. Has dubbed Chemical Ali for his role in using chemical weapons against the Kurds in 1988.
RUMSFELD: We believe that the reign of terror of Chemical Ali has come to an end. To Iraqis who have suffered at his hand, particularly in the past few weeks in that southern part of the country. He will never again terrorize you or your families.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The U.S. is building toward what it hopes will be a tipping point when Iraqis will lose their fear of the Saddam Hussein regime and be able to openly embrace a U.S. and Coalition forces. But how long that will take no one here is willing to predict -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, first in terms of how long it will take, is there any suggestion about the level of resistance the armored forces, in particular, are encountering in Baghdad?
MCINTYRE: Well, it's described as sporadic. The key point there is they don't seem to see any really organized movement. No ability, for instance, to field an entire division against the United States 3rd Infantry Division over on one side of the city and the Marines on the other. So, they don't see it as very significant at this point. But they're being very cautious, particularly because they want to avoid civilian casualties.
DOBBS: I suspect they're also being very cautious in any way about concluding at this juncture what those suspicious chemicals found south of Baghdad really are.
What is the view there?
MCINTYRE: Two reasons for the caution. One is, these chemical weapons detectors in the field are very sensitive and they give a large number of false positives. They're designed that way for obvious safety reasons. The other thing is the Pentagon has long experience that reports from the field often, although correct at the time, turned out later to be wrong. First report is always wrong is the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here. So they're exercising a great degree of caution. Last thing they want to do is make a premature declaration that they've found the smoking gun, only to have to admit later out that it wasn't exactly what they said.
DOBBS: Any sense of how long it will be before the military can have complete tests run?
MCINTYRE: It will take several days to complete the tests to any degree of satisfaction. And then the Pentagon would have to decide and administration whether they think it's of a level sufficient that they should announce it to the world as evidence of what they've claimed all along about Iraq harboring weapons of mass destruction.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
Joining me now, CNN military analyst General David Grange. General, a great deal of progress made within Baghdad itself. Three regimens to stay there. Will that be a sufficient force to wrap matters up there militarily?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Lou, I think you'll see a few more critical points within the city limits occupied as well as the critical points around the city to control exit and entry into the city. So I think there's going to be a few more foot holes established.
DOBBS: Baghdad, a very large city, expansive, yet the military says they have the entire perimeter cordoned off. Do you get sense that there is any way in the world that the Republican Guard can effectively sneak out of Baghdad should that be their course of action?
GRANGE: I don't think you will see large armored units, vehicle convoys, that type of movement out of the city without them being destroyed by air or ground forces. What could get out or in is small paramilitary type forces because I don't think you have the shoulder- to-shoulder perimeter around Baghdad but you control key avenues in and out. And so foot soldiers probably could move somewhat in and out of the city.
DOBBS: The Pentagon, General, has just sent more than 800 tanks that the Republican Guard, the Iraqis had, at the beginning of this conflict, that only a handful remain. That is incredible.
Does that -- with the absence of armor, that effectively mean that the fighting is going to be light at best from here?
GRANGE: I think what you'll see, Lou, is a -- the effectiveness of the Iraqi military. Fighting as a maneuver force -- fighting as a mechanized or armored force is almost nill. They still have quite a capability, I would imagine, of small, again, dismounted forces like the special Republican Guard or the Iraqi special forces.
You know what's amazing is we haven't seen a lot of reports on all these tanks destroyed through the reporting over the last several weeks. We've just talked about paramilitary or small fights with a 50 caliber machine gun on a Toyota truck or something like that. And what's significant here is lot of these tanks were destroyed by Apache helicopters, by A-10 aircraft and also artillery and quite a lot of damage was done that we really haven't seen a lot of reports of it up until now.
DOBBS: In Mosul, heavy fighting -- the 173rd is there. Do you have at this point a sense of how difficult that engagement's going to be for the coalition forces?
GRANGE: Well, Kirkuk and Mosul have obviously are still controlled by the Iraqi forces. The coalition advisers that are with the indigenous forces, the Kurdish forces that are moving down to that -- those areas, it's not a very robust force, so I don't think they could storm those positions right now. But they're occupying some key terrain between both of those cities trying to control that highway. But with the use of the radio, the old radio and good reporting, they can take out a few of the Iraqi forces. And I think that they'll continue to do that until they get maybe some more robust reinforcements in the area.
DOBBS: The British commander today in -- at CENTCOM extended an extraordinary compliment to General Tommy Franks and to the U.S., calling the operations in Iraq simply brilliant on the part of the Americans. Were you surprised that he would be so -- so publicly effusive about what has been accomplished there?
GRANGE: No, and the reason I'm not surprised is that I think the British commander is very happy that the American commander supported the delay, in other words, the patience, required to set conditions properly for the Basra campaign.
And that's what it took. It took patience to get conditions in place the right way for the coalition force to do what it needed to do with minimal loss of life. And so I think he's appreciative of that. And I think that you'll see the same kind of operation in Baghdad.
DOBBS: City by city until this matter is concluded.
GRANGE: Right.
DOBBS: General Grange, thank you very much, as always.
GRANGE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, President Bush, Tony Blair in Northern Ireland tonight. They're talking about rebuilding Iraq. John King will have the latest for us from Belfast.
Also tonight:
BILL NEELY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If a Hummer won't do, try this.
DOBBS: The British desert rats swarm over one of Saddam Hussein's former presidential palaces in Basra, while keeping an eye out for booby traps. Bill Neely is with them and will have the report for us.
Coalition tanks roll into Baghdad and take two of Saddam's principal palaces. But the fighting there is far from ended. Walt Rodgers will have the story.
That and a great deal more still ahead here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: Well, as we've just reported, of 800 tanks that the Iraqi army began with, only a handful remain.
We're going to turn to the night skies over Baghdad and tonight, to this point, those skies not illuminated by bombardment from either missiles or heavy bombs. Nor the artillery fire that -- that Baghdad has been involved in over the course of the past several days with the U.S. 3rd Infantry ringing of Baghdad and along with the 1st Marines. So the skies tonight relatively quiet over Baghdad.
And vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Peter Pace today said air power would continue to shape the battlefield as ground troops forced the last fighters from their bunkers.
Gary Tuchman joins me from an air base near the Iraqi border -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the Air Force has just given us some new numbers and they go like this: between Monday morning and Tuesday morning, a 24-hour period, there will be 1,700 sorties. Of those 1,700 sorties, 500 will be strike sorties, using bombs and missiles. Of those 500, approximately 375 will be over Iraq's capital city of Baghdad in support of the coalition ground troops.
The Air Force is continuing its 24-hour air vigil over Iraq using multiple sets of fighter planes. Now, a short time ago we talked with one of those fighter pilots, F-16 pilot who is going on those missions, and he told us he's not surprised at all by the air coalition's success.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LT. COL. ROB GIVENS, F-16 PILOT: It is incredible to think of the number of troops we have on the ground from essentially three different services, U.S. Army, U.S. Marine Corps and then also our coalition partners.
And the same with the air services. Being able to work in such a cooperative way that produced this effect. I mean, it's only within 16 days and we are driving through downtown portions of the capital. And the thing to realize, that's important about this, it would be the e quiver length of Iraqi tanks driving through the Mall in Washington, D.C.
TUCHMAN: Tell me about your most recent mission when you did drop ordnance? What -- why did you drop and where was it?
GIVENS: A couple of days ago we were brought in, we were able to find these via an air source, Republican Guard elements north of Baghdad that were attempting to reposition. We were able to find those. And the weather was great. We were able to see the targets and just systematically go through bombing tanks and artillery pieces until we had caused a lot of destruction.
(END VIDEOTAPE) TUCHMAN: At this one base where we're standing they're still averaging 250 sorties a day. That's more than 10 an hour. There is rarely a time, whether it's 4:00 in the afternoon or 4:00 in the morning that we don't hear a plane taking off and landing each and every ten minutes.
Lou, back to you.
DOBBS: Gary, I noticed the number of A-10s behind you as you are reporting there. You said 250 sorties a day. Have those stepped back a bit with the success of the land force in and around Baghdad?
TUCHMAN: Lou, we've had as many as 300 a day here, as few as 230. But it's been very consistent. Except for two nights of bad weather during this whole campaign it's been between 230 and 300 each of those nights.
DOBBS: Well based on your reporting of those projected sorties of the quiet over the skies of Baghdad are about to end. Thank you very much, Gary Tuchman.
Coming up next, after some of the fiercest fighting of the war, coalition forces now control Basra. Bill Neely will have the report from inside Saddam Hussein's palace in Basra.
There may be a small role for the United Nations in rebuilding Iraq, but it certainly will not be the preeminent role. Our senior White House correspondent John King reports tonight from Belfast, where President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair are meeting.
And the Dixie Chicks have changed a tune on this war. We'll have that story and more coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Dixie Chicks now say it was all a joke. Lead singer Natalie Maines told a London audience back on March 10 that she was ashamed that President Bush was from her home state of Texas. Now she says the line was really meant as a joke. Despite that and an earlier apology, radio stations continue to boycott the music of the Dixie Chicks and their record sales have plunged dramatically.
If the Dixie Chicks were joking and it really did take a month to let the world know about the joke, Ed Asner certainly isn't joking. He told students at Southern Illinois University he's opposed to the war in Iraq as well as President Bush. Asner all blamed years of U.S. sanctions for conditions in Iraq.
Americans' opinion of President Bush is even more positive. A new CNN/"USA Today" poll finds 80 percent of Americans say they believe the president is a strong leader. That's up from 76 percent in January. The percentage of Americans who say President Bush is honest, inspires confidence and cares about people like them has also grown. The poll also asked how Americans approve of the way Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld is handling his job. Seventy-one percent say they approve, 21 said they disapprove.
The president and British Prime Minister Tony Blair today held their third meeting in just over three weeks. The two leaders, meeting in Belfast, Northern Ireland. They're talking about the future of Iraq after the war has ended. John King reports from Belfast.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. officials say the Belfast summit will endorse a broad advisory role for the United Nations in post-war Iraq. As Mr. Bush arrived for the talks senior aides said talk of a major transatlantic rift on the issue is exaggerated while Prime Minister Blair's government once again made clear it wants major U.N. involvement.
GEOFF HOON, BRITISH DEFENCE MINISTER: It's absolutely clear that we want to see U.N. authority for the operations there in exactly the way that we did in operations in Afghanistan.
KING: But Mr. Bush is adamant that the United Nations not have the lead political role in Iraq as it did after the fighting ended in Afghanistan, East Timor and Kosovo.
Secretary of State Powell negotiated with U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan throughout the weekend. And Annan sounded as if he now accepts the White House deal.
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Iraq is not East Timor and Iraq is not Kosovo. There are trained personnel, there is a reasonably effective civil service (UNINTELLIGIBLE) who can play a role in their own country.
KING: The administration will quickly establish a U.S.-led civil administration in Iraq and says it will then gradually transfer power to a new interim Iraqi authority.
RICHARD ARMITAGE, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: ... which will be developed by Iraqis themselves in close consultation with coalition members who, after all, have shed their blood and expended their treasure to bring about the liberation of Iraq.
KING: U.S. officials say the draft Belfast Communicae (ph) envisions a lead U.N. role in humanitarian efforts and calls on the Security Council to endorse the new interim Iraqi authority.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now a U.S. team will head into Iraq this week to prepare to lay the ground work for that new interim authority. And Secretary Powell says the focus here at the Belfast summit on post-war Iraq is critical because in his words, the hostilities phase is coming to a conclusion -- Lou.
DOBBS: John, with Prime Minister Tony Blair and President Bush reaching agreement on the advisory role of the United Nations and administering post-Saddam Iraq, they have overcome their biggest hurdle here, have they not?
KING: There will likely be some disagreements on the particulars, Lou, down the road. But they very much want to come out of this summit saying they are in agreement that the United Nations will have a major role.
But the U.S. say, and British officials concur that many questions simply can't be answered right now because you do not know the situation on the ground when the fighting stops. How big of a security problem do you have, how much infrastructure has been destroyed?
So both U.S. and British officials anticipate some bumps in the road, down the road. But they say for now they simply want to quiet the criticism and quiet the skepticism that the Bush administration does not welcome a major U.N. role.
The president tomorrow at a news conference, we are told, will welcome such a role. But he will make clear those shedding the blood deserve the key say in calling the shots, especially in the weeks and months after the shooting stops.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Thank you very much. John King, our senior White House correspondent with the president, reporting live from Belfast.
Coming up next here, former Defense Secretary William Cohen will be here to talk about the summit between Blair and Bush, the plans for a post-war Iraq.
Also British forces storm one of Saddam Hussein's palaces in Basra. British in control of the southern city. Bill Neely is with the British Marines and has the report for us.
Then Iraqi citizens today welcomed coalition troops with cheers and smiles. Bob Franken will have that story when we return. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
DOBBS: Fredricka, thank you.
The Pentagon says tonight Coalition forces are in control much of Basra, Iraq's second largest city. As British forces moved in, so did looters. A hotel in the downtown area was set afire, and a bank was robbed. The headquarters of the Fedayeen was vacant. Troops are hunting for hidden Iraqi military and militia.
ITN Bill Neely is with British in Basra and has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NEELY: A new dawn in Basra and challenger tanks rumble through the gates of the main presidential palace. The assault on Iraq's second city is less than a day old. The tanks and Marines behind them aren't stopping.
(on camera): This once said to have been the headquarters of Fedayeen. Locals have told us the palace is now empty of Iraqi soldiers. The gates are open, so we're going to walk straight in. They push forward across the most symbolic ground in southern Iraq.
(voice-over): This palace, the seat of Saddam's power here. Power the Marines are smashing away. Different building, different way in. If a hammer won't do, try this. It is the Marines who hold power now in Basra. The next task, to hunt down the men who fought and defended this city for a forth night. The Marines were convinced that if Saddam's men were to make a final stand anywhere the south, they'd make it here. So orders were hushed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You two straight in first on the left. Go.
NEELY: Just 12 hours earlier, a soldier with another unit in business Basra was killed by a booby trapped bomb. So they moved cautiously through a dozen echoing buildings.
(on camera): Building by building, floor by floor, and there are a lot of them here, the Royal Marines are clearing this (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Last where Saddam Hussein has stayed and slept in the past. The Marines only too well aware that he may have left men behind here to ambush them.
(voice-over): But they found little inside. Ornate bathrooms, but no people, no furniture for these looters who the Marines rounded up. In the grounds just a few abandoned weapons, discarded helmets and uniforms. They even left behind the weapons they might have fought a guerrilla war with. The tanks poured in. But here at the presidential palace not a shot was fired. Not so a mile away.
Diving for cover as Marines opened up on a target. A man had stolen a jeep from the hospital. Doctors shouted warnings to the Marines as he sped toward the tanks. The Marines shot him. He died later in hospital. They're taking no chances here. In all three British soldiers have been killed in the assault on Basra. In the center of the site of this city, Marines now control the streets and bridges backed up by 20 or more tanks. Saddam's power is being torn away. The fall of Basra, the beginning of the end of his brutal regime.
Bill Neely, ITV News, with 4-2 Commando Royal Marines, in Basra.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Joining me now is former Defense Secretary William Cohen, who joins us from our studios in Washington, D.C. tonight. Bill, the British commanding general was extravagant in his praise of General Tommy Franks and the command structure at CENTCOM, calling the operation in Iraq brilliant. That kind of praise not usually publicly extended, at least, by generals.
What was your reaction? WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: My reaction was that it was well deserved. As we have always maintained, the United States forces are the best led, best equipped, best educated, best warriors in the world. That's not a mantra. That's the truth. And I think the American people have seen why we say that. But I must say that we all appreciate the British forces that you just showed in this previous clip of the British Marines, the so-called desert rats as well. They are remarkable warriors and we are grateful to have them fighting side by side as well as the Australians. But there's no doubt we take great pride in our military and the incredible job they're doing. And the young people out there, the courage and sacrifice they make. And yes, the brilliance of executing a war plan that some called into question just a couple weeks ago. So, thank our British friends for our compliment, and I would say it's well deserved.
DOBBS: Bill, the British did a brilliant job, if I may say, in Basra and finally taking control of that city, with what appears to be relatively light loss of life on the part of either Iraqi civilians or British forces. It appears the same thing is taking place somewhat more aggressive pace in Baghdad. What is your outlook for what remains of the conflict particularly in Baghdad.
COHEN: Well, again, too early to tell at this moment. Some hard fighting remains as all have indicated. But, you're seeing the systematic dismemberment of the Iraqi regime. Day by day, more and more power's being applied. You're seeing Iraqi soldiers ripping off their uniforms and fleeing. So, I think it's just a question of time. But, still danger involved. We don't know about the chemical weapons, whether those are, in fact, chemical weapons. But, I must say, very few farmers would store their pesticides in deep underground bunkers.
DOBBS: And camouflage them.
COHEN: And camouflage them. So, you know, Henry Terrell once had an expression about the doctrine of "Res Ipsa Loquitur" a Latin phrase which lawyers use for the things speak for itself. They said when you find a trout in your milk, that's "Res Ipsa Loquitur." I think we'll have to wait and see whether that applies here. But surely at some point in time it will be very clear that Saddam has sarin, he has VX. He has other chemicals, blister agents, mustard gas. That will all be discovered in due course.
DOBBS: Prime Minister Blair, President Bush have, as John King, our senior White House correspondent, has just reported reached agreement that the U.N. role in the reconstruction of Iraq will be advisory and not primary. That the Coalition will take on that role. Your reaction?
I think that's the right decision, for the time being. I think what you'll see is the Pentagon and administration want to maintain as much command and control as possible in the initial phases of the reconstruction process. The one thing we learned in Kosovo, for example, which also did not have U.N. authority, was that you need to get in and to get secure as quickly as possible, because the trend is for the U.S. to become bogged down as peacekeepers or policemen over a long period of time.
What this Pentagon wants to do, get involved, have command and control, get it under way as quickly as possible, and at some future time, as soon as reasonably possible to have the U.N. auspices at least to be the front authority.
Right now, it's going to be the Pentagon and our British friends as well.
DOBBS: It looks, from these initial report, Bill, actually, as if they have decided that the U.N. will stay in an advisory role in their administration of reconstruction, taking a larger role, but it's still not clear what, in humanitarian. It doesn't look as though they are, in point of fact, following the Bosnia or Afghanistan model.
COHEN: Right.
DOBBS: So, it's going to be interesting.
COHEN: Exactly.
Precisely for that reason they wanted something different because it was very slow in terms of getting international aid in to get the institutions, so to speak, creating courts, creating policemen, getting those up and running took a good deal of time. And so I think the Pentagon wants to see as rapid a transition as possible to Iraqi control and this is something to keep very much in mind.
We take great pride in what we are achieving militarily. We also have to send the message to the world that we are there, again, liberating force. Turn it over to the Iraqi government as soon as that government can be constituted, and that should come at a relatively quick period of time.
DOBBS: As president bush has vowed. Bill Cohen, thank you very much.
COHEN: Thank you, Lou.
Coming up next, Iraqi citizens cheered coalition troops who were taking control of a city in southern Iraq. Bob Franken will have that story for us.
Also, an issue that could make or break the future economy of Iraq. What happens to those huge debts that Saddam Hussein has run up during his 30-year reign of terror? How forgiving will his creditors be? We'll have a special report.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: U.S. Marines have taken control of another Shiite town in southern Iraq. And once again they received an enthusiastic warm welcome from the local residents Bob Franken is with the Marines and has the report. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a remarkable moment. The U.S. translator, who had fled his hometown here for the United States, was seeing his family for the first time since 1990.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm survivor, you know, because 13 years ago I didn't see my three son and sisters and brothers. And this is the first time I meet them in 13 years ago. And there was crying and kissing me and hugging me. And outside I was hugging them and asking them about them.
FRANKEN: The Marines here are still concerned some Iraqi fighters remain. "Keep away from the area," scream the loud speakers in Arabic. "It is for your security. The coalition forces will not hesitate to shoot you."
But hundreds ignored that, surging forward to greet the Marines with an emotional celebration in this predominantly Shia Muslim town.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am very thankful to USA for this -- oh, the freedom. I like the freedom.
FRANKEN (on camera): Did you like Saddam Hussein?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't like him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All Iraqi people like.
FRANKEN (voice-over): We have permission to identify the town, Kalatzakara (ph). The Marines swarmed in to eliminate as many signs of the regime as possible. Literally, to destroy or deface as many pictures of Saddam Hussein as possible.
Here, U.S. forces battered their way into what had been described as a Ba'ath party secret police station. Inside, they found weapons and what they believe to be was a room used for brutal interrogation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's fairly suspicious. It looks to be something that you wouldn't hang a chandelier from, especially in a room like this. I would say greater than 50/50 chance some type of torturing was done in this room here.
FRANKEN (on camera): This operation is designed to be a combination of brute force and the hand of friendship, described in the briefings as controlled aggression.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think you need to present a hard appearance. The -- the largest threat we've had in this area right now is paramilitary operations. The "shoot and run" type of guys. You show them that you're coming to town, that you are professional, that you are facing a platoon plus of Marines, fully armed and fully ready to -- to meet whatever comes up and you tend to have them go the other direction.
FRANKEN (voice-over): No problem here. Here there was a celebration. The crowd at one point surging toward the Marine trucks chanting "the suffering is over. America always."
At least for now.
Bob Franken, CNN, Kalatzukra (ph), Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Well, now isn't a bad time.
Just ahead, an expensive economics lesson may be in the works for a number of countries, particularly France and Russia. The cost of loaning money to Saddam Hussein weighing on their minds. Peter Viles will have our special report.
Then, many predicted it wouldn't last. But Afghanistan's new government still stands. Kitty Pilgrim will report on the progress after regime change in Kabul.
And is it fact or fiction? Iraq's information minister has a somewhat different take on the war from the coalition. Bill Tucker will assess perception and reality.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: As coalition forces liberate the Iraqi people, economic planners are working to liberate Iraqi citizens from the crushing foreign debt that Saddam Hussein has run up in more than two decades in power.
Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It does have the world's second richest oil reserves, but when Iraq is reborn it will face an economic crisis: crushing debts that Saddam Hussein ran up, in part to buy the weapons he used to terrorize his own people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of the debt, I consider that as an illegitimate debt because the Saddam Hussein does not represent Iraqi people. It's an illegitimate government.
VILES: Estimates of Iraq's debt and other obligations are north of $300 billion, up to $116 billion in official debts, up to $200 billion in reparation claims stemming from the first Gulf War. Rubar Sandi is a London banker and an Iraqi Kurd who hopes to serve in a new Iraqi government.
RUBAR SANDI, CORPORATE BANK BUSINESS GROUP: Before I came here, I had a meeting with a group of exiles, Iraqi exiles and we were discussing the very same subject. And they would like to see 90 to 95 percent discount on the Iraqi debt.
VILES: A big write-down of debt would be an expensive lesson for the French and the Russians about the risks of doing business with a dictator.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at it very much like a corporate bankruptcy. This is a sovereign bankruptcy. If you can get anything close to five cents on the dollar, that's a good deal.
Reporter: It's not clear what role Washington will play in renegotiating Baghdad's debt, and whether the United Nations will have any voice in the discussion at all.
Peter Viles, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: While the war rages in Iraq, Afghanistan continues to progress under Operation Enduring Freedom. Kitty Pilgrim has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Afghan President Hamid Karzai met with President Bush at the end of February. His message, don't forget about Afghanistan during any operation in Iraq. But the United States support has remained strong and consistent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think considering how debilitated Afghanistan was by more than 20 years of invasion and civil war, progress is going fairly well. It is true that the Karzai government has not received enough international support, but I think the U.S. has delivered on what it's promised.
PILGRIM: About 10,000 U.S. troops remain in Afghanistan to provide security and root out remaining Taliban and al Qaeda, overseeing building roads and humanitarian projects. U.S. forces are also training the new Afghan army; 7,000 soldiers will have completed basic training by the end of this year. $4.5 billion in international aid was pledged at a conference in Tokyo, but not much has come through from other countries. The United States has spent $840 million so far.
There are tangible signs of progress. Girls now go to school. Three million Afghan children are back in school, double the number the United Nations predicted. Two million refugees have returned home, one of the biggest population migrations ever. Afghanistan has launched a new currency. A national presidential election is planned for July 2004.
Life is not perfect in Afghanistan. President Karzai had survived several assassination attempts, and terrorism still flares. Nevertheless, life on some level is better than ever.
Kitty Pilgrim, CNN Financial News, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Iraq's information minister has taken political spin to an entirely new level. Bill Tucker will assess his spin and the facts. Also, your e-mails. Both coming right up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Iraq's information minister, some call him Baghdad Bob, today walked the streets of Baghdad and denied coalition troops had advanced into the city. It did raise the question why he was in the street, and it was only the latest in a series of news conferences in which Baghdad Bob offered a creative take on this war. Bill Tucker has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mohammed Saeed Al-Sahaf is the minister of information, a job he seems to relish and execute with a great deal of conviction, if not with a great deal of accuracy.
MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF, IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER: They are trapped everywhere in the country.
(through translator): They are cowards and they will not want the confrontation.
TUCKER: That was the night that the lights went out in Baghdad and U.S. forces took Saddam International Airport. The next day, Al- Sahaf was back on TV.
AL-SAHAF (through translator): The United States will no longer be a superpower. Its demise will be very quick.
TUCKER: Some 2,500 Republican Guard troops surrendered in fighting that day. The bombing of Baghdad continued.
AL-SAHAF (through translator): Saddam Airport was a graveyard for them.
TUCKER: Meanwhile, coalition forces were encircling Baghdad. Saturday, a C-130 transport plane landed at the airport and U.S. troops conducted reconnaissance missions into downtown Baghdad.
AL-SAHAF (through translator): Americans are not there, are not in Baghdad. There are no troops there. Never. They are not at all.
TUCKER: U.S. troops rolled into the center of Baghdad the next day in broad daylight, and the U.S. Marines showered in one of Saddam's palaces. Undeterred, Al-Sahaf insisted that it was only a small force that had surrounded his building.
AL-SAHAF (through translator): And I blame Al Jazeera one more time. It is, in fact, marketing for the Americans.
TUCKER: And to think, he started out studying to be an English teacher.
Bill Tucker, CNN Financial News, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next, we'll take a look at your e-mails. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now your thoughts. Jim Cornell of Pennsylvania e-mailed us to say: "Your anti-United Nations comments were embarrassing to me as an American. You basically said we did the fighting, so we can control the after effects. Whatever happened to community and good will? The impression in the Arab world and the cost in money and lives would be too great to go it alone." I don't think so.
Karen Dicker of Los Angeles says: "Lou, I'm a middle-of-the-road Democrat, but those vile e-mails you get annoy me. I find you to be pleasant, professional and fair. You don't sound like the other right wing people who always sound like they are reading talking points. Just keep being who you are." I'll do my best.
And many of you wrote about the e-mail I shared with you Friday. A viewer who criticized me for being the only CNN anchor to wear an American flag on my lapel. One of our viewers referred to it as, quote, "a right wing fraternity pin." In reaction, Carol Troop of Georgia wrote: "It's hard to believe that an intelligent soul like yourself is proud to belong to that embarrassing retro Republican fiasco you call a "fraternity." They finally got power and promptly blew it."
And Vicky Davis of Idaho wrote in to say: "I'm glad you wear your flag pin on your lapel. For years, the liberal left controlled the airwaves. Thank God that's changing and we can now watch people on TV who love this country rather than hate it."
Share your thoughts with us any time. Moneyline@cnn.com. I'm Lou Dobbs. Thanks for being with us. Paula Zahn, Wolf Blitzer are coming up next. They'll be followed by Larry King.
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