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CNN Live Today

Interview With Con Coughlin

Aired April 08, 2003 - 10:25   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Whether Saddam Hussein is alive or not, President Bush says it is clear that the Iraqi leader is closing his grip on power. Losing his grip on power I should say. A target bombed in western Baghdad where Saddam Hussein was thought to be meeting with his sons and other high ranking officials.
How likely he was killed in attack and what does it mean if he was eliminated, Con Coughlin is the author "Saddam: King Of Terror" and executive editor of the London Sunday Telegraph. Good to see you. What do you make of these early reports of this attack on this residential house or complex yesterday with an adjoining restaurant?

CON COUGHLIN, AUTHOR, "SADDAM: KING OF TERROR": Well, clearly, the Americans had very, very good intelligence that Saddam was there, no doubt about that. Not just one intelligence source this is several. This is human intelligence, spies, and this is satellite eavesdropping. I know from my own sources here in London that the restaurant in the district was being used as a command and control center by the regime. By Saddam's inner circle. And the intelligence was that Saddam was there with senior officer, including his head of intelligence and military chiefs and people like this and head of the special security organization that protects the regime. All these people are said to be there.

Now, Saddam might have made an exit soon afterwards, there was 40-minute delay between message getting through that Saddam was there and the B-52 dropping its payload. Saddam may have left the building. We don't know. There is a very big hole where that restaurant used to be and it's very unlikely we'll find any bodies, so we could have a big mystery about whatever happened to Saddam.

ZAHN: Let me ask you this, would it make sense that his two sons would have gone to what you described as that command and control site within this restaurant?

COUGHLIN: That's the only bit of the story I would question. Very unlikely during a conflict like this that Saddam would meet with his two sons. Saddam knows or knew, that from the opening moments of this war, he was a target, the regime was a target, we made that quite clear in the opening hour with the 40 cruise missiles on Saddam's bunker, I think it's very unlikely that Saddam would have been there with both sons, one might have been there, but not two. So perhaps, some aspect of this regime survives to fight on.

ZAHN: Let me ask you this, you talk about the mystery that will be left by this big crater in the ground. Our own national security correspondent David Ensor described what he has been told is a fairly significant bunker system perhaps even under this residential district. Have you heard anything about that?

COUGHLIN: I know that there are bunker systems in Baghdad, I know there is one supposed to be under the Al Rasheed hotel, which of course was attacked this morning and there are under the information ministry, of course the presidential sites, all over the place. I don't know about the one in this district but just on the size of the bombs that were dropped on this restaurant, I've been told here in London that the force of the blast was so big, that people one kilometer away from the blast center were blown over by the force of the blast. That's how big this bomb was. And so we have this problem, are we ever going to find anything in the rubble that confirms that Saddam was there?

ZAHN: That's a question I have for you, how would you begin to confirm that? Are we talking about elaborate DNA tests and are there any DNA samples of Saddam Hussein lying around?

COUGHLIN: Well, big question Paula, I'm afraid I'm not a forensic expert. I understand that before this conflict started that the intelligence services obtained some of Saddam's DNA. The problem at the moment is that the coalition forces do not have access to this sight, they can't go and check it out. Unlike the attack in Basra which is said to have killed Chemical Ali, Saddam's cousin. In that case, British forces could go to the site, have collected samples, I'm afraid is all that's left and carry out their tests.

We can't do the same in Baghdad for the moment, by the time we can get to the bomb sites, who knows what will have happened, it might have been cleared up, people might have done things to it. But we have to wait and see. Saddam might pop up tonight on CNN and say, Hey guys, I'm still alive.

ZAHN: And that will lead us through the process of trying to figure out whether it was live or taped before March 19 that endless cycle again. Good to see you, thank you for dropping by.

COUGHLIN: My pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired April 8, 2003 - 10:25   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Whether Saddam Hussein is alive or not, President Bush says it is clear that the Iraqi leader is closing his grip on power. Losing his grip on power I should say. A target bombed in western Baghdad where Saddam Hussein was thought to be meeting with his sons and other high ranking officials.
How likely he was killed in attack and what does it mean if he was eliminated, Con Coughlin is the author "Saddam: King Of Terror" and executive editor of the London Sunday Telegraph. Good to see you. What do you make of these early reports of this attack on this residential house or complex yesterday with an adjoining restaurant?

CON COUGHLIN, AUTHOR, "SADDAM: KING OF TERROR": Well, clearly, the Americans had very, very good intelligence that Saddam was there, no doubt about that. Not just one intelligence source this is several. This is human intelligence, spies, and this is satellite eavesdropping. I know from my own sources here in London that the restaurant in the district was being used as a command and control center by the regime. By Saddam's inner circle. And the intelligence was that Saddam was there with senior officer, including his head of intelligence and military chiefs and people like this and head of the special security organization that protects the regime. All these people are said to be there.

Now, Saddam might have made an exit soon afterwards, there was 40-minute delay between message getting through that Saddam was there and the B-52 dropping its payload. Saddam may have left the building. We don't know. There is a very big hole where that restaurant used to be and it's very unlikely we'll find any bodies, so we could have a big mystery about whatever happened to Saddam.

ZAHN: Let me ask you this, would it make sense that his two sons would have gone to what you described as that command and control site within this restaurant?

COUGHLIN: That's the only bit of the story I would question. Very unlikely during a conflict like this that Saddam would meet with his two sons. Saddam knows or knew, that from the opening moments of this war, he was a target, the regime was a target, we made that quite clear in the opening hour with the 40 cruise missiles on Saddam's bunker, I think it's very unlikely that Saddam would have been there with both sons, one might have been there, but not two. So perhaps, some aspect of this regime survives to fight on.

ZAHN: Let me ask you this, you talk about the mystery that will be left by this big crater in the ground. Our own national security correspondent David Ensor described what he has been told is a fairly significant bunker system perhaps even under this residential district. Have you heard anything about that?

COUGHLIN: I know that there are bunker systems in Baghdad, I know there is one supposed to be under the Al Rasheed hotel, which of course was attacked this morning and there are under the information ministry, of course the presidential sites, all over the place. I don't know about the one in this district but just on the size of the bombs that were dropped on this restaurant, I've been told here in London that the force of the blast was so big, that people one kilometer away from the blast center were blown over by the force of the blast. That's how big this bomb was. And so we have this problem, are we ever going to find anything in the rubble that confirms that Saddam was there?

ZAHN: That's a question I have for you, how would you begin to confirm that? Are we talking about elaborate DNA tests and are there any DNA samples of Saddam Hussein lying around?

COUGHLIN: Well, big question Paula, I'm afraid I'm not a forensic expert. I understand that before this conflict started that the intelligence services obtained some of Saddam's DNA. The problem at the moment is that the coalition forces do not have access to this sight, they can't go and check it out. Unlike the attack in Basra which is said to have killed Chemical Ali, Saddam's cousin. In that case, British forces could go to the site, have collected samples, I'm afraid is all that's left and carry out their tests.

We can't do the same in Baghdad for the moment, by the time we can get to the bomb sites, who knows what will have happened, it might have been cleared up, people might have done things to it. But we have to wait and see. Saddam might pop up tonight on CNN and say, Hey guys, I'm still alive.

ZAHN: And that will lead us through the process of trying to figure out whether it was live or taped before March 19 that endless cycle again. Good to see you, thank you for dropping by.

COUGHLIN: My pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com