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CNN Live At Daybreak
Saddam City Cheers Apparent End of Saddam Hussein's Regime
Aired April 09, 2003 - 06:07 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I want to put some of this in perspective right now of what we're seeing on the streets of Baghdad; also in Erbil as well.
Iraq is dominated by the Shia population, well over 60, maybe 65 percent of the people in Iraq belong to the Shia sect of the Islam faith. They have no love lost for Saddam Hussein. This history between Saddam Hussein and the Shia population is rich in tragedy and rich in conflict.
And as we watch these images coming out from Baghdad, I want to go back to the Pentagon, and Chris Plante has been watching it as well.
And there is looting, Chris, we know about. There are also chants and celebrations, too, in areas, and I know you've been watching it to give us a bit more perspective on what we are all seeing now waking up back there in the U.S.
Good morning again to you.
CHRIS PLANTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Yes, these are certainly the images that the Pentagon and the U.S. and British administrations have been hoping to see all along. And as you pointed out, the country of Iraq, 25 million people roughly, is dominated by the Shia population largely in the south.
Also as we've been seeing here this morning, in Baghdad significant numbers, a million or more Shia in Baghdad itself in the north and eastern part of the city, in Saddam's City the neighborhood is called. It's generally a very low-income part of the city. It's described as being something of a ghetto. The Shia there typically holding the lower-tier jobs in the city. They are treated as second- class citizens.
It's not a great surprise that you would see the Shia now sensing that the regime really will be gone soon, coming out into the streets to celebrate. We began seeing some of that in the southern city of Basra, which is ranked second-largest city, a population of about 1.3 million people, largely Shia down there also. These people have been brutalized by the regime of Saddam Hussein over the years, celebrating at the demise of this regime is certainly no surprise.
While we see this going on in one part of the city, it should be made clear that other parts of the city are still not entirely under control, that the ruling Baath Party and the Sunni Muslims that have curried the favor of the regime of Saddam Hussein, that have benefited from the many years of control of the Sunni Muslims and the Baathists are not so eager to see the regime melt away.
We are getting reports, however, that the resistance is decreasing significantly, but there are still armed clashes going, and this cannot be underestimated. Members of the Fedayeen, the Fedayeen Saddam, a paramilitary that has been used much like a secret police, I suppose, as most people would understand it to keep the people in their place, the population of the country under Saddam's thumb, still significant numbers of these people. They number in the tens of thousands.
And they can't really be expected to melt away or to flee early on in this process, because when the regime goes, they have everything to lose. In fact, they may find themselves in grave danger. These people who were perceived by the population in general as the oppressors of the population may be in grave danger. There may be a frenzy of violence, the oppressed as it were rising up against their oppressors after all these years. It's not something that the coalition wants to see certainly, a frenzy of violence.
But as we can see here, there are no police in sight, there is no military in sight. We have reports that the reporters operating in Baghdad who normally have minders -- that is government watchdogs -- on them at all times, their minders did not show up for work this morning. That may be a huge sign of the regime crumbling.
The information minister, who we've seen so much of recently, who continued, you know, under almost absurd circumstances to say that the coalition forces were being crushed, and that their graves would be here, that their brave fighters were beating back the coalition, nowhere to be found this morning, normally apparently on the scene well before now. It's not clear where these people are, but as of this hour that has to be taken as an indication that the regime may, in fact, be crumbling in Baghdad.
But there is still fighting going on. There are still hard- liners out there, the Fedayeen Saddam in particular, the Special Republican Guard, these people, again, with everything to lose may choose to make a last stand in Baghdad, outside of Baghdad. And as long as there is one person with a rifle on a rooftop, the coalition forces have to take their defensive posture very seriously.
There are significantly more American troops due to head into Baghdad within a matter of hours, I'm told, not days, and we're talking about troops in the thousands, another brigade, perhaps 5,000 U.S. Army troops in heavy armor. That will double the number of U.S. Army troops in the city now.
Also Marine forces coming in from the south and the east, meeting some resistance from forces down there, but planning on entering the city very soon, taking over sections in the east and rooting out areas where the Fedayeen and other hard-liners are still taking up positions and combating the coalition forces.
But again, even small numbers can cause a great deal of difficulty for the coalition forces and throughout the city.
If, however, it becomes obvious that the regime is no longer in Baghdad, that there are no senior authorities from Saddam Hussein's regime in the city, then that, too, may begin to crumble. We have reports that some have been taking off their uniforms and melding into the crowd, or at least trying to make their way out of there. Certainly the people in the crowd know who these people are of the Fedayeen, know who their oppressors have been over the years, whether they're wearing their uniforms or not.
So a very unstable period right now, a critical time, a time probably at least that the Pentagon would refer to as the "tipping point." That is when it stops being an uphill battle and begins to become a downhill matter when the population is joining forces with the coalition and not opposing them.
So certainly an awful lot developing very quickly here.
Even as combat continues in northern Iraq, I have very specific reports of special operations forces, American forces, in the north directing airstrikes against remaining Republican Guard and other regular army units in the north. There are special operations forces along the border with Syria, where some loyalists of Saddam are still taking up positions and combating the U.S. forces there.
So it's not all over yet, that's for certain. There is still combat going on. It is a very uncertain period, a very unstable period. This may turn out to be a defining moment, a defining day, but it still remains to be seen whether there will be a last push by supporters of Saddam Hussein, whether they have the military wherewithal to mount any sort of an offensive against the forces there, whether they will attempt to come in and take some control of any portion of the city.
But as of now it does appear that the tide is turning in a very significant way. These are the images that the U.S. government and the British government want the rest of the Arab world to see. Certainly the Arab media has emphasized, to a greater extent than the American media at least, the civilian casualties and the problems that the coalition has inflicted on the Iraqi people and on the city of Baghdad.
These are the images that the U.S. and British had hoped early on. Apparently paralyzed by fear and not trusting the coalition to go all the way this time, there was a great deal of reticence on the part of the population to come out and celebrate in the streets.
But the worm appears to be turning here today even before our very eyes. It may be the equivalent of the fall of the Berlin Wall. Now, it's not, of course, on that sort of epic scale, but this is a major event in the course of this now, I guess, 20-day-old conflict, and these are the images that the West, the Western powers and the coalition powers were hoping would be getting out to the Arab world.
So big goings on here -- Bill.
HEMMER: Chris, thanks -- Chris Plante at the Pentagon.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Regime>
Aired April 9, 2003 - 06:07 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I want to put some of this in perspective right now of what we're seeing on the streets of Baghdad; also in Erbil as well.
Iraq is dominated by the Shia population, well over 60, maybe 65 percent of the people in Iraq belong to the Shia sect of the Islam faith. They have no love lost for Saddam Hussein. This history between Saddam Hussein and the Shia population is rich in tragedy and rich in conflict.
And as we watch these images coming out from Baghdad, I want to go back to the Pentagon, and Chris Plante has been watching it as well.
And there is looting, Chris, we know about. There are also chants and celebrations, too, in areas, and I know you've been watching it to give us a bit more perspective on what we are all seeing now waking up back there in the U.S.
Good morning again to you.
CHRIS PLANTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Yes, these are certainly the images that the Pentagon and the U.S. and British administrations have been hoping to see all along. And as you pointed out, the country of Iraq, 25 million people roughly, is dominated by the Shia population largely in the south.
Also as we've been seeing here this morning, in Baghdad significant numbers, a million or more Shia in Baghdad itself in the north and eastern part of the city, in Saddam's City the neighborhood is called. It's generally a very low-income part of the city. It's described as being something of a ghetto. The Shia there typically holding the lower-tier jobs in the city. They are treated as second- class citizens.
It's not a great surprise that you would see the Shia now sensing that the regime really will be gone soon, coming out into the streets to celebrate. We began seeing some of that in the southern city of Basra, which is ranked second-largest city, a population of about 1.3 million people, largely Shia down there also. These people have been brutalized by the regime of Saddam Hussein over the years, celebrating at the demise of this regime is certainly no surprise.
While we see this going on in one part of the city, it should be made clear that other parts of the city are still not entirely under control, that the ruling Baath Party and the Sunni Muslims that have curried the favor of the regime of Saddam Hussein, that have benefited from the many years of control of the Sunni Muslims and the Baathists are not so eager to see the regime melt away.
We are getting reports, however, that the resistance is decreasing significantly, but there are still armed clashes going, and this cannot be underestimated. Members of the Fedayeen, the Fedayeen Saddam, a paramilitary that has been used much like a secret police, I suppose, as most people would understand it to keep the people in their place, the population of the country under Saddam's thumb, still significant numbers of these people. They number in the tens of thousands.
And they can't really be expected to melt away or to flee early on in this process, because when the regime goes, they have everything to lose. In fact, they may find themselves in grave danger. These people who were perceived by the population in general as the oppressors of the population may be in grave danger. There may be a frenzy of violence, the oppressed as it were rising up against their oppressors after all these years. It's not something that the coalition wants to see certainly, a frenzy of violence.
But as we can see here, there are no police in sight, there is no military in sight. We have reports that the reporters operating in Baghdad who normally have minders -- that is government watchdogs -- on them at all times, their minders did not show up for work this morning. That may be a huge sign of the regime crumbling.
The information minister, who we've seen so much of recently, who continued, you know, under almost absurd circumstances to say that the coalition forces were being crushed, and that their graves would be here, that their brave fighters were beating back the coalition, nowhere to be found this morning, normally apparently on the scene well before now. It's not clear where these people are, but as of this hour that has to be taken as an indication that the regime may, in fact, be crumbling in Baghdad.
But there is still fighting going on. There are still hard- liners out there, the Fedayeen Saddam in particular, the Special Republican Guard, these people, again, with everything to lose may choose to make a last stand in Baghdad, outside of Baghdad. And as long as there is one person with a rifle on a rooftop, the coalition forces have to take their defensive posture very seriously.
There are significantly more American troops due to head into Baghdad within a matter of hours, I'm told, not days, and we're talking about troops in the thousands, another brigade, perhaps 5,000 U.S. Army troops in heavy armor. That will double the number of U.S. Army troops in the city now.
Also Marine forces coming in from the south and the east, meeting some resistance from forces down there, but planning on entering the city very soon, taking over sections in the east and rooting out areas where the Fedayeen and other hard-liners are still taking up positions and combating the coalition forces.
But again, even small numbers can cause a great deal of difficulty for the coalition forces and throughout the city.
If, however, it becomes obvious that the regime is no longer in Baghdad, that there are no senior authorities from Saddam Hussein's regime in the city, then that, too, may begin to crumble. We have reports that some have been taking off their uniforms and melding into the crowd, or at least trying to make their way out of there. Certainly the people in the crowd know who these people are of the Fedayeen, know who their oppressors have been over the years, whether they're wearing their uniforms or not.
So a very unstable period right now, a critical time, a time probably at least that the Pentagon would refer to as the "tipping point." That is when it stops being an uphill battle and begins to become a downhill matter when the population is joining forces with the coalition and not opposing them.
So certainly an awful lot developing very quickly here.
Even as combat continues in northern Iraq, I have very specific reports of special operations forces, American forces, in the north directing airstrikes against remaining Republican Guard and other regular army units in the north. There are special operations forces along the border with Syria, where some loyalists of Saddam are still taking up positions and combating the U.S. forces there.
So it's not all over yet, that's for certain. There is still combat going on. It is a very uncertain period, a very unstable period. This may turn out to be a defining moment, a defining day, but it still remains to be seen whether there will be a last push by supporters of Saddam Hussein, whether they have the military wherewithal to mount any sort of an offensive against the forces there, whether they will attempt to come in and take some control of any portion of the city.
But as of now it does appear that the tide is turning in a very significant way. These are the images that the U.S. government and the British government want the rest of the Arab world to see. Certainly the Arab media has emphasized, to a greater extent than the American media at least, the civilian casualties and the problems that the coalition has inflicted on the Iraqi people and on the city of Baghdad.
These are the images that the U.S. and British had hoped early on. Apparently paralyzed by fear and not trusting the coalition to go all the way this time, there was a great deal of reticence on the part of the population to come out and celebrate in the streets.
But the worm appears to be turning here today even before our very eyes. It may be the equivalent of the fall of the Berlin Wall. Now, it's not, of course, on that sort of epic scale, but this is a major event in the course of this now, I guess, 20-day-old conflict, and these are the images that the West, the Western powers and the coalition powers were hoping would be getting out to the Arab world.
So big goings on here -- Bill.
HEMMER: Chris, thanks -- Chris Plante at the Pentagon.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Regime>
