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CNN Live Today

Interview With 'Newsweek''s Melinda Liu

Aired April 09, 2003 - 11:36   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: On the telephone right now, Melinda Liu from "Newsweek" magazine, who I believe is either in the Palestine Hotel or near it, not far from that square where we just watched that enormous statue of Saddam Hussein come down. Melinda, are you allowed to tell us where you are?
MELINDA LIU, "NEWSWEEK": Yes. I'm inside the Palestine Hotel. I just was at the square, watching this statue being pulled down, and I've come back to file something to my magazine.

ZAHN: Describe to us what you saw.

LIU: Well, it was a pretty heady scene out there. Dozens of Iraqis, maybe a couple hundred of them, very excited, very enthusiastic and welcoming, kind of working together -- well, first they tried to pull it down by themselves, a group of Iraqi youths, but they just had a rope and it just was a very, very massive statue, very tall, and they didn't manage to do it by themselves. So then, some of the American soldiers got a sort of an engineering vehicle in there, and together they rigged up something that finally pulled down the statue of Saddam Hussein, and everyone erupted in cheers, and there were -- you know, children were passing out flowers and they were dancing, and people waving their T-shirts and twirling them around in the air. It was quite a scene of celebration.

However, I've got to say that there were also Iraqis who were very quiet, just watching, not really reacting, and a very common reaction when asked about how do they feel, they say it's too early to say. They say I'm worried about my family, I'm worried about my business, I'm worried about do we have electricity. Come back in a couple of days, and we'll tell you how we feel. So there's a lot of wait and see still going on here.

ZAHN: And Melinda, did you get the sense that they were reacting that way out of fear, or out of cynicism about what these coalition forces might bring?

LIU: I think there's probably a variety of reactions going on here, a whole spectrum of emotions, some of them contradicting each other. I think people are in a bit of shock because, of course, their own government propaganda had not prepared them for the signs of a huge column of American Marines and tanks and Humvees pulling up to this very prominent city square. So I think they're trying to sort it out. I think they're worried that the Americans, having done this, will go back home and leave them to their own devices, which could possibly allow some remnants of the regime to come back again. I think they're very worried about that. Their experience in 1991 was a big disappointment to opponents of the regime at that time. So I think people really want to wait, wait a little bit and make sure this is real before they go on record and invest in a certain kind of positive reaction.

ZAHN: Melinda, I have no idea where you're standing and what you can see, but we're looking at a live picture of what appears to be some kind of vehicle on fire as night falls in Baghdad. Can you see what we're seeing?

LIU: Oh, I think I'm on the wrong side of the hotel to see what you're seeing because I -- I'm actually in the room of your technician here. So I don't know what the vehicle is that's on fire, but it probably happened just since I came inside the hotel because it wasn't on fire when I was out there.

ZAHN: All right. And Melinda, I'm really intrigued by the varying reaction -- are you still with us, or did -- are you still with us, Melinda...

LIU: Yes, yes.

ZAHN: OK. I'm intrigued by some of the reactions, varied reactions people had to you, the Iraqi civilians, when the statue came down. We just learned from one of our reporters that Arab TV was portraying this as the Iraqi civilians not being able to pull down the statue themselves, that in the end, and symbolically this got major play, I guess, in the Arab press, it was the U.S. Marines that brought down the statue. Was there any talk of that out there on the street?

LIU: Well, there certainly was an interplay like that. And as I said, there was -- there certainly was a group of Iraqi civilians who were trying to do it themselves. But you know, this was like a technical challenge. This was a huge, massive statue on a very tall pedestal. You know, you had to shimmy up a rope just to get to the feet of the statue, and all they had were ropes and their own muscle power, and indeed they didn't succeed in toppling the statue just with their own primitive tools.

And what the American soldiers had, of course, were vehicles and winches and -- the means, the technical means to bring it down. And of course, there is some symbolism here, of course, that Iraqis having lived under Saddam Hussein's repressive regime for such a long time probably would have preferred to be toppling himself themselves, but because they couldn't do it, the Americans came and did it for them. And it was also a bit of a reaction where at some point there was an American flag that was being waved about as these soldiers were trying to attach these ropes to pull the statue down, and the crowd reacted negatively to that, people were saying, No, this is a sign of invasion, this is a sign of occupation, and then someone ran up with an Iraqi flag and started waving that about, and then the crowd cheered and they liked that much better, and people were saying this is a sign of cooperation.

So symbolism here, I think, is very, very important and I -- you know, obviously we've seen some quite heady displays of celebration, but we're only talking about, really, a couple hundred people in one small chunk of Baghdad. So -- and this is just the first day that they've felt liberated or whatever they want to describe this. So I think the real test is going to come in the weeks -- the days and weeks ahead.

You know, if the government services continue to be good, if the economy bounces back, if the families are safe, that's one thing. But if there are revenge killings, looting, chaos, and civil unrest, I think that will leave a very sour taste in people's mouths.

ZAHN: Well, you were referring to the unfurling of that American flag, and apparently that had folks at the Pentagon gasping because they had given orders to the troops to not do anything that can be perceived as indicating U.S. forces were occupying Iraq. Melinda, final question to you. You talked about some of the people who stood back on the sidelines, relatively quiet, expressing grave concerns about family members. Talk a little bit about what it is they expect in the next couple of weeks -- we've lost Melinda Liu.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired April 9, 2003 - 11:36   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: On the telephone right now, Melinda Liu from "Newsweek" magazine, who I believe is either in the Palestine Hotel or near it, not far from that square where we just watched that enormous statue of Saddam Hussein come down. Melinda, are you allowed to tell us where you are?
MELINDA LIU, "NEWSWEEK": Yes. I'm inside the Palestine Hotel. I just was at the square, watching this statue being pulled down, and I've come back to file something to my magazine.

ZAHN: Describe to us what you saw.

LIU: Well, it was a pretty heady scene out there. Dozens of Iraqis, maybe a couple hundred of them, very excited, very enthusiastic and welcoming, kind of working together -- well, first they tried to pull it down by themselves, a group of Iraqi youths, but they just had a rope and it just was a very, very massive statue, very tall, and they didn't manage to do it by themselves. So then, some of the American soldiers got a sort of an engineering vehicle in there, and together they rigged up something that finally pulled down the statue of Saddam Hussein, and everyone erupted in cheers, and there were -- you know, children were passing out flowers and they were dancing, and people waving their T-shirts and twirling them around in the air. It was quite a scene of celebration.

However, I've got to say that there were also Iraqis who were very quiet, just watching, not really reacting, and a very common reaction when asked about how do they feel, they say it's too early to say. They say I'm worried about my family, I'm worried about my business, I'm worried about do we have electricity. Come back in a couple of days, and we'll tell you how we feel. So there's a lot of wait and see still going on here.

ZAHN: And Melinda, did you get the sense that they were reacting that way out of fear, or out of cynicism about what these coalition forces might bring?

LIU: I think there's probably a variety of reactions going on here, a whole spectrum of emotions, some of them contradicting each other. I think people are in a bit of shock because, of course, their own government propaganda had not prepared them for the signs of a huge column of American Marines and tanks and Humvees pulling up to this very prominent city square. So I think they're trying to sort it out. I think they're worried that the Americans, having done this, will go back home and leave them to their own devices, which could possibly allow some remnants of the regime to come back again. I think they're very worried about that. Their experience in 1991 was a big disappointment to opponents of the regime at that time. So I think people really want to wait, wait a little bit and make sure this is real before they go on record and invest in a certain kind of positive reaction.

ZAHN: Melinda, I have no idea where you're standing and what you can see, but we're looking at a live picture of what appears to be some kind of vehicle on fire as night falls in Baghdad. Can you see what we're seeing?

LIU: Oh, I think I'm on the wrong side of the hotel to see what you're seeing because I -- I'm actually in the room of your technician here. So I don't know what the vehicle is that's on fire, but it probably happened just since I came inside the hotel because it wasn't on fire when I was out there.

ZAHN: All right. And Melinda, I'm really intrigued by the varying reaction -- are you still with us, or did -- are you still with us, Melinda...

LIU: Yes, yes.

ZAHN: OK. I'm intrigued by some of the reactions, varied reactions people had to you, the Iraqi civilians, when the statue came down. We just learned from one of our reporters that Arab TV was portraying this as the Iraqi civilians not being able to pull down the statue themselves, that in the end, and symbolically this got major play, I guess, in the Arab press, it was the U.S. Marines that brought down the statue. Was there any talk of that out there on the street?

LIU: Well, there certainly was an interplay like that. And as I said, there was -- there certainly was a group of Iraqi civilians who were trying to do it themselves. But you know, this was like a technical challenge. This was a huge, massive statue on a very tall pedestal. You know, you had to shimmy up a rope just to get to the feet of the statue, and all they had were ropes and their own muscle power, and indeed they didn't succeed in toppling the statue just with their own primitive tools.

And what the American soldiers had, of course, were vehicles and winches and -- the means, the technical means to bring it down. And of course, there is some symbolism here, of course, that Iraqis having lived under Saddam Hussein's repressive regime for such a long time probably would have preferred to be toppling himself themselves, but because they couldn't do it, the Americans came and did it for them. And it was also a bit of a reaction where at some point there was an American flag that was being waved about as these soldiers were trying to attach these ropes to pull the statue down, and the crowd reacted negatively to that, people were saying, No, this is a sign of invasion, this is a sign of occupation, and then someone ran up with an Iraqi flag and started waving that about, and then the crowd cheered and they liked that much better, and people were saying this is a sign of cooperation.

So symbolism here, I think, is very, very important and I -- you know, obviously we've seen some quite heady displays of celebration, but we're only talking about, really, a couple hundred people in one small chunk of Baghdad. So -- and this is just the first day that they've felt liberated or whatever they want to describe this. So I think the real test is going to come in the weeks -- the days and weeks ahead.

You know, if the government services continue to be good, if the economy bounces back, if the families are safe, that's one thing. But if there are revenge killings, looting, chaos, and civil unrest, I think that will leave a very sour taste in people's mouths.

ZAHN: Well, you were referring to the unfurling of that American flag, and apparently that had folks at the Pentagon gasping because they had given orders to the troops to not do anything that can be perceived as indicating U.S. forces were occupying Iraq. Melinda, final question to you. You talked about some of the people who stood back on the sidelines, relatively quiet, expressing grave concerns about family members. Talk a little bit about what it is they expect in the next couple of weeks -- we've lost Melinda Liu.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com