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CNN Live Today
Ironic Day in Baghdad
Aired April 10, 2003 - 11:33 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, we want to bring on the phone -- we are getting Scott Nelson in on the line. Scott Nelson is standing by in Baghdad. Scott, what have you learned there, what's going on?
SCOTT NELSON, "BOSTON GLOBE": In Baghdad today, it's actually a sadly ironic day. On the one hand, you have refugees returning to Baghdad by the thousands and the tens of thousands who were bombed out of their homes, or who were worried about being bombed out of their homes during the air campaign. They're coming back today en masse, on donkey, on foot, in buses and in cars, and they seem genuinely happy and euphoric that the war is over and perhaps that the regime has fallen.
On the other hand, there are still pockets of extremely fierce fighting in some areas around Saddam City, the eastern side of Baghdad, and the irony of the day is that it may turn out to be the bloodiest single day of the entire campaign for U.S. Marines, and it happened after the regime fell. I'm hearing reports that at least 23 Marines have died today in some of the house to house fighting in some neighborhoods, which is a very difficult blow for the Marines here to take, considering that the regime has, in fact, fallen already.
HARRIS: And that is a point that is totally counter to the images of celebration that we've been seeing talking about so much here. Scott, can you tell us what part of town these Marines are fighting in right now?
NELSON: I'm not witnessing it firsthand, but I'm under the impression that it's along the eastern side of Baghdad, since that's where the Marines are the heaviest, and where the 3rd Infantry Division is heavier on the western side of the city. So I believe it's along Saddam City in the eastern half of Baghdad, in some neighborhoods, some pockets of resistance.
HARRIS: Have you been able to confirm that number of 23 Marines dead?
NELSON: I've not confirmed that number. That's the number I've been told by some Marines here, and the Marines that have been informed about the fighting seem -- are a little bit shocked by it, coming the day after yesterday's big events, as it did.
HARRIS: What about the people who you say are streaming back into town? Have you been able to talk with them and find out what it was that convinced them to come back? What was it that made them decide it was time. NELSON: I haven't spoken with any of them. I don't speak Arabic, so my ability to communicate with them is fairly limited. But they seem very happy. They seem to be relieved that the fighting is over. They seem to be happy that they can come home without fear of being bombed. And quite frankly, some of them probably want to return home to make sure that their homes are not looted. In areas where the U.S. troops are in control, they are not acting as police forces, so people are running wild and looting everything they can. So I'm guessing that some of these people want to return home to protect what they have also.
HARRIS: Have you seen yourself, face-to-face, evidence of this looting, and do you have any idea how widespread it is right now at this hour?
NELSON: Oh, absolutely, I've seen it firsthand. And my sense is that in every neighborhood where U.S. forces are firmly established and on the corners and patrolling, you're seeing looting because there's no other force there. There is no police, there is no Iraqi government. There is essentially nothing, it's a wild West, and the American troops do not see themselves as a police force, at least not at this stage, and they're not trying to perform that role. So it really is wide open territory for anybody who wants to take anything.
HARRIS: Scott Nelson of the "Boston Globe," thank you for checking in, we appreciate that. You be safe out there while all that chaos is still -- they are basically taking over the streets there. We are still getting word, then, folks, this morning fighting is still going on, despite the fact that we've been seeing so many pictures of people celebrating, and Scott Nelson here reporting that more people who had actually left town to protect themselves are actually coming back in, thinking now is the time for them to come in and participate in the celebration of this new -- or at least the end of the old Iraqi regime.
Let's go now to Daryn Kagan, standing by in Kuwait City -- Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Leon, I want to get an Arab reaction now with the collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime, much of the focus in the region turns to Syria. That is a long time supporter of the dictatorship, also a place rumored to be a possible haven for Saddam Hussein.
Many Middle Easters are uneasy. They wonder whether Syria could become the next target of coalition forces that have massed in the region. Our senior international correspondent, Sheila MacVicar, is in Damascus tonight...
SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No.
KAGAN: ... and she joins us now -- Sheila, hello. Sheila, can you hear us?
MACVICAR: Hello, Daryn -- I can indeed hear you, I hope that you can hear me. Daryn, one thing for sure is that the relations between Syria and Iraq over the course of the last 20 years have been pretty dismal. There's been a slight thaw in that relationship over the course of the last two years, but it certainly is the view of the Syrians that the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein did not trust them and would not trust them now.
Now, we heard last night from U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld saying that Syria was continuing to move military equipment across the border with Iraq, repeating an allegation he had made a couple of weeks ago, which had been denied by the Syrians, and saying also that they believe that members of the regime, or family members from Iraq's regime would perhaps have sought shelter here.
I am told by senior Syrian government officials that that is absolutely not true, and that they have seen no members or family members associated with the regime -- not just Saddam Hussein and his family, but any of those associated with the regime, arrive at Syria's borders or attempt to enter Syria -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Sheila MacVicar in Damascus, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 10, 2003 - 11:33 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, we want to bring on the phone -- we are getting Scott Nelson in on the line. Scott Nelson is standing by in Baghdad. Scott, what have you learned there, what's going on?
SCOTT NELSON, "BOSTON GLOBE": In Baghdad today, it's actually a sadly ironic day. On the one hand, you have refugees returning to Baghdad by the thousands and the tens of thousands who were bombed out of their homes, or who were worried about being bombed out of their homes during the air campaign. They're coming back today en masse, on donkey, on foot, in buses and in cars, and they seem genuinely happy and euphoric that the war is over and perhaps that the regime has fallen.
On the other hand, there are still pockets of extremely fierce fighting in some areas around Saddam City, the eastern side of Baghdad, and the irony of the day is that it may turn out to be the bloodiest single day of the entire campaign for U.S. Marines, and it happened after the regime fell. I'm hearing reports that at least 23 Marines have died today in some of the house to house fighting in some neighborhoods, which is a very difficult blow for the Marines here to take, considering that the regime has, in fact, fallen already.
HARRIS: And that is a point that is totally counter to the images of celebration that we've been seeing talking about so much here. Scott, can you tell us what part of town these Marines are fighting in right now?
NELSON: I'm not witnessing it firsthand, but I'm under the impression that it's along the eastern side of Baghdad, since that's where the Marines are the heaviest, and where the 3rd Infantry Division is heavier on the western side of the city. So I believe it's along Saddam City in the eastern half of Baghdad, in some neighborhoods, some pockets of resistance.
HARRIS: Have you been able to confirm that number of 23 Marines dead?
NELSON: I've not confirmed that number. That's the number I've been told by some Marines here, and the Marines that have been informed about the fighting seem -- are a little bit shocked by it, coming the day after yesterday's big events, as it did.
HARRIS: What about the people who you say are streaming back into town? Have you been able to talk with them and find out what it was that convinced them to come back? What was it that made them decide it was time. NELSON: I haven't spoken with any of them. I don't speak Arabic, so my ability to communicate with them is fairly limited. But they seem very happy. They seem to be relieved that the fighting is over. They seem to be happy that they can come home without fear of being bombed. And quite frankly, some of them probably want to return home to make sure that their homes are not looted. In areas where the U.S. troops are in control, they are not acting as police forces, so people are running wild and looting everything they can. So I'm guessing that some of these people want to return home to protect what they have also.
HARRIS: Have you seen yourself, face-to-face, evidence of this looting, and do you have any idea how widespread it is right now at this hour?
NELSON: Oh, absolutely, I've seen it firsthand. And my sense is that in every neighborhood where U.S. forces are firmly established and on the corners and patrolling, you're seeing looting because there's no other force there. There is no police, there is no Iraqi government. There is essentially nothing, it's a wild West, and the American troops do not see themselves as a police force, at least not at this stage, and they're not trying to perform that role. So it really is wide open territory for anybody who wants to take anything.
HARRIS: Scott Nelson of the "Boston Globe," thank you for checking in, we appreciate that. You be safe out there while all that chaos is still -- they are basically taking over the streets there. We are still getting word, then, folks, this morning fighting is still going on, despite the fact that we've been seeing so many pictures of people celebrating, and Scott Nelson here reporting that more people who had actually left town to protect themselves are actually coming back in, thinking now is the time for them to come in and participate in the celebration of this new -- or at least the end of the old Iraqi regime.
Let's go now to Daryn Kagan, standing by in Kuwait City -- Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Leon, I want to get an Arab reaction now with the collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime, much of the focus in the region turns to Syria. That is a long time supporter of the dictatorship, also a place rumored to be a possible haven for Saddam Hussein.
Many Middle Easters are uneasy. They wonder whether Syria could become the next target of coalition forces that have massed in the region. Our senior international correspondent, Sheila MacVicar, is in Damascus tonight...
SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No.
KAGAN: ... and she joins us now -- Sheila, hello. Sheila, can you hear us?
MACVICAR: Hello, Daryn -- I can indeed hear you, I hope that you can hear me. Daryn, one thing for sure is that the relations between Syria and Iraq over the course of the last 20 years have been pretty dismal. There's been a slight thaw in that relationship over the course of the last two years, but it certainly is the view of the Syrians that the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein did not trust them and would not trust them now.
Now, we heard last night from U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld saying that Syria was continuing to move military equipment across the border with Iraq, repeating an allegation he had made a couple of weeks ago, which had been denied by the Syrians, and saying also that they believe that members of the regime, or family members from Iraq's regime would perhaps have sought shelter here.
I am told by senior Syrian government officials that that is absolutely not true, and that they have seen no members or family members associated with the regime -- not just Saddam Hussein and his family, but any of those associated with the regime, arrive at Syria's borders or attempt to enter Syria -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Sheila MacVicar in Damascus, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
