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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Chaos, Looting in Iraq as Saddam's Regime Leaves

Aired April 10, 2003 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Setbacks in Iraq. A suicide bomber strikes at U.S. Marines as Americans battle diehard backers of Saddam Hussein. A top Shiite leader assassinated at his mosque. And looters run wild in the cities.
First in Baghdad. Now in the north. The regime is falling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A long year of fear and cruelty is ending.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: But what new dangers lie ahead? Where is Saddam Hussein? Where are the chemicals? And where are the POWs? Growing fears for the fate of Americans taken captive on this day 22 of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS from Kuwait City with correspondents from around the world.

WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts now.

BLITZER: A turning point in the last 24 hours. What a difference, perhaps, a day makes. Yesterday, joy and jubilation in the streets of Baghdad. Today, terror in those same streets and the realization this war is not over yet.

Hello from Kuwait City. I'm Wolf (r)MD-BO¯Blitzer reporting.

The collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime has brought anarchy, most notably uncontrolled looting in parts of the country. For coalition forces, the fighting is far from finished, and there are new threats -- like today's suicide attack on U.S. Marines. The rapid collapse of Iraqi forces in the north brings on a whole new set of broader, strategic problems.

Standing by live this hour, CNN's Jane Arraf -- she's in the northern city of Kirkuk -- and in Washington, the Secretary of the Air Force, James Roach, but we begin in Baghdad with CNN's Christiane Amanpour -- Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's nightfall, obviously, now, and we've heard some sporadic shooting in the region of the Palestine Hotel. It is quite dangerous at nighttime, and everybody's advised sort of not to go out wandering around, but, of course, today during the day just before dusk, there was a suicide attack against a Marine position in Saddam City.

Now what happened, according to the top marine spokesman here, was that a man who had strapped explosives to himself had approached a Marine checkpoint and had detonated those explosives, wounding four U.S. Marines. We don't know how serious those wounds are, and the spokesman has just said that the official word is that four have been wounded.

There were, earlier, some conflicting reports suggesting there may have been casualties, but when we pressed the spokesman in terms of fatalities, he said "No, at the moment they are listed as wounded".

Now, he also said that the Marines, since they arrived in this city yesterday, are prepared for all manner of challenges and attacks against them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We came into this fight knowing that when you're dealing with a guy who's been systematically raping and torturing his own people for as long as he has, we expected all the dirty tricks we've seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Now there have been a lot of Marine checkpoints put up all over this city, and they're quite a heavy presence on this side of the river, of Marines, and on the other side of the river, there is the U.S. Army.

Certainly what we've seen, though, is that a lot of people are extremely happy to see the U.S. forces here. There's a lot of waving still. There's a lot of thumbs up. There's a lot of thank yous even when we as the press drive through the cities, they tend to wave and think it's great to see the foreigners in town right now.

But the flip side to that is that there is also a security vacuum in existence right now in Baghdad and also as we've seen it in Basra in the south. And neither the U.S. Marines nor the Army have said that they're willing to take the job of policing the city just yet.

And so there's a great deal of looting going on. It is not just government buildings, which is how it started out yesterday, but it's also now private places, private properties. There are some embassies and, most worryingly for the people of this city, there is also looting at the hospitals.

That means vital medicine and equipment is being taken out of hospitals at a time when there are quite significant numbers of patients, casualties of this war, in those hospitals, who need to be treated. So humanitarian workers are very concerned about that.

And as to the matter of Saddam Hussein, there are so many rumors going around. People are still a little nervous that perhaps he'll pop up somewhere some time, and there are all sorts of rumors about where he may be. Some say they've seen him in their rear-view mirror, driving in a car. Others say no, he's fled with his henchmen to Syria. There's still quite a lot of nervousness -- the fact that they don't know whether he's dead or alive. Where he is is keeping them on tender hooks right now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Are you suggesting, Christiane, that a lot of Iraqis, at least in Baghdad, are waiting or still on the sidelines -- not yet 100% convinced that Saddam Hussein is gone?

AMANPOUR: Yes. Certainly those we've talked to. Look, I think they know very well the writing is on the wall, and they know that the death knell has been sounded for this regime.

But they're still a little nervous. Where is he? Why hasn't he shown up -- dead or alive? And, you know, they still have been so traumatized over so long and have had this pervasive presence in their life for so long that it's difficult without seeing the dead body, if you like, or the exiled body or the escaped body, to be quite confident that it's completely over.

Of course, daily their confidence does grow with the presence of the troops here, but because of the somewhat lawless and disorderly conduct of a lot of people here -- and the looters -- there is a certain amount of nervousness about what's going on here right now.

BLITZER: CNN's Christiane Amanpour. She's now in Baghdad for us. Christiane, be safe over there. Thanks very much.

And as she just mentioned, looters have been running wild in the streets of Baghdad -- indeed, throughout much of Iraq, making off with everything they can physically carry. While the Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz did not stick around to protect his own home -- shown here -- other Iraqis are doing just that, and relief agencies say that's keeping hospital staffers and other vital infrastructure workers away from their jobs. The hospitals themselves are being looted -- along with palaces, shops, factories, and at least one embassy.

Meanwhile, a leading Shiite Muslim cleric was assassinated today at the Imam Ali Mosque, a Shiite holy site in the city of Najaf. A family friend tells CNN that Sayed Abdul Majid al-Khoei was shot inside the Mosque, then dragged outside and stabbed to death. The friend was injured in the same attack.

Al-Khoei, who had lived abroad in recent years, was expected to urge Iraqi Shiites to cooperate with The United States. The White House is condemning the murder -- calling the killing a reminder of the dangers in Iraq.

As Iraq quickly falls into a state of lawlessness, if not utter chaos, the power vacuum has drawn an expression of concern from the United Nations Secretary-General, Kofi Annan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOFI ANNAN, UNITED NATIONS SECRETARY-GENERAL: It appears there's no function in government in Iraq at the moment. We also saw the scenes of jubilation, but, of course, when you think of the casualties, both military and civilian, the Iraqis have paid a heavy price for this. And I've also seen -- we've seen -- scenes of looting and. obviously, law and order must be a major concern.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So what are the residents of Baghdad saying one day after the fall of the capital to U.S. forces? CNN senior international correspondent, Walter Rodgers, has been taking the pulse of the city.

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Imagine a city the size of Baghdad -- six to seven million people, a large urban area -- and there's not a single working telephone now, and there's no electricity. That's what the residents of Baghdad are facing after this war and, again, the infrastructure is collapsing slowly around the edges.

Now, despite what international (r)MD-IT¯aid agencies suggest, there are not people who appear to be without food here. Many Iraqis, long before the war started, began stockpiling and storehousing food, and I began asking Iraqis today, "Do you have enough food?"

They said, "Yes."

I said, "Plenty of food?"

They grinned and said, "Yes, plenty of food."

But water's a little dodgy, and, of course, the days are getting hotter as spring pushes on toward summer.

I talked with many Iraqis today about their major concerns, and the major concern continues to be uncertainty -- the uncertainty of what sort of life they'll lead after the collapse of the regime of Saddam Hussein, which as terrible as it may have been, was at least predictable.

Now, for many (r)MD-IT¯Iraqis, they walk through their streets, and I talk to them. And what they tell me is they are glad Saddam is gone although some are confessing to fear about what follows.

Many fear that it will be just one tyrant replacing another tyrant. One Iraqi soldier -- one Iraqi citizen -- told me that what he feared most was that all they were going to get was another thief, someone who would steal the oil, as Saddam Hussein did, and then exploit the country's natural resources for his own personal enhancement.

BLITZER: Walter Rodgers reporting live -- reporting, excuse me, from the scene.

Meanwhile, there were apparently some Iraqi casualties in a firefight in a Baghdad mosque that killed one U.S. Marine and injured 22. The Central Command says U.S. forces believe senior Iraqi leaders, possibly including Saddam Hussein himself, were hiding there. Fighting continued in the streets as U.S. Marines moved on a palace and the home of a Ba'ath Party leader.

The chaotic situation in Baghdad is taking a toll on healthcare. The World Health Organization reports hospitals are running short of water, medicine and even workers, and the Red Cross says some hospitals have been looted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROLAND HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN, INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE RED CROSS: We are very puzzled, as everybody, and distressed by the widespread attacks and looting that is going on absolutely everywhere and the hospitals themselves have come under attack of people with a purpose of looting.

There are a lot of people carrying weapons around and making it very difficult for civilians in need of medical care to actually reach to the hospitals and we have many cases of people reporting or calling out that they are in need of regular treatment such as dialysis and they just cannot make it; they cannot go from one part of the city to the other and cannot reach the hospital, which is extremely difficult for them and difficult to think of any form of pollution unless total security can be re-established in the city in general.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: As for the number of Iraqi casualties, it's hard, of course, to say. The Iraqi government had told Abu Dhabi television that more than 1,200 Iraqi civilians had been killed and more than 5,000 wounded, but that was at least two days ago. And with the government apparently now collapsed, there are no new numbers being reported.

The U.S. Air Force says coalition aircraft have flown more than 33,000 sorties so far in this war. Air power destroyed much of Saddam Hussein's military before it each had a chance to fight, and air power has been used to target the Iraqi leader himself.

Joining me now from Washington is the Secretary of the Air Force, James Roche. Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us.

The "shock and awe" campaign, a lot of people in the beginning thought it didn't work, that it didn't shock and awe the Iraqis initially as much as you thought it would. Did it?

JAMES ROCHE, SECY. OF THE AIR FORCE: Wolf, we never use the expression "shock and awe." Lots of other people did.

We worked very closely with the other component commanders with Tommy Franks, who is the combatant commander, on the plan that had lots of flexibility built into it. We could do that because of technology and the way we laid out a plan, so that General Franks was able to have surprise in the south even though everyone knew this battle was going to happen for a couple of months. "Shock and awe" was never the intent. The intent was to show that we had overwhelming power and that we could command air defense dominance and we did, and air superiority, and we worked closely with our colleagues on the ground.

BLITZER: It's now been more than three weeks. Is the air war effectively over at least -- or at least, at this point, has it been dramatically scaled back?

ROCHE: It's being scaled back because a lot of the fixed targets we went after we've gone after. We've now been working very closely with the forces on the ground, and when I say we it's the combat air forces -- the United States Air Force, Marine, Navy air power and coalition air power working closely with maneuver units on the ground.

Things are getting more static. Now it's a matter of being prepared and that if we're called upon to help them in certain situations.

Secondly, we still have a lot of transports bringing equipment into the area and we'll be bringing in more and more food and being able to take care of our own forces, plus anything else we can do to solve some of the humanitarian problems that are happening.

BLITZER: As you know, Mr. Secretary, the Air Force was called in on at least two occasions, maybe more, to drop a bomb hoping that it would kill Saddam Hussein and perhaps one or two of his sons. The intelligence presumably was good. Do you have any better idea right now whether or not mission was accomplished?

ROCHE: No.

From our point of view the mission that was accomplished was to put the bombs precisely on the target and have them have the explosive effect that they did. Whether or not we were able to get Saddam and his sons, we don't know yet. In one case, we have to go looking for some DNA.

What's remarkable, though, is we were able to bring those weapons to bear within an hour of the intelligence that said that, in fact, he might be there. That's quite remarkable.

BLITZER: Are you looking for that DNA in the rubble of that Monsour district in Baghdad where he was targeted the other day?

ROCHE: Well, I'm sure some people are, yes We would like to know who was -- who was killed in that incident. Absolutely.

BLITZER: Since then, has there been any sign whatsoever of life on the part of Saddam Hussein? Have you seen any evidence of communications or command and control that he might still be alive?

ROCHE: No, sir. I have not -- we have not. And, in fact, it's becoming somewhat irrelevant. His regime has certainly collapsed. The leadership is somewhere. They may be curled up in a hole some place. The point is now Iraq is now free and the real issue is to take care of some of these groups of thugs who are shooting back at our coalition forces as well as to try to stop or deter the suicide attacks and to get on trying to restore the Iraqi society for Iraqis.

But this regime is history.

BLITZER: As you know, Mr. Secretary, a lot of suspicion, a lot of speculation the last stand of Saddam Hussein and his Republican Guard -- Special Republican Guard will be in his hometown of Tikrit. Has airpower effectively done all it can do in that ancestral hometown of the Iraqi leader?

ROCHE: Well, we've done a lot in Tikrit, but there's no reason to reduce every building to rubble, Wolf. We will be there when called upon, either to pick up on some intelligence and strike very quickly, or to work with any of the ground troops as they start to deal with Tikrit.

BLITZER: How much longer do you see this war going on? Is there -- is it going to be days? Weeks? Months? What's your assessment?

ROCHE: Well, Wolf, it's a matter of defining what constitutes war. If it's trying to weed out every one of these groups of thugs, it may go on for a bit.

The point is, at this stage, we effectively have won the conflict. The regime is gone. Now it's a matter of trying to work with the people in the society and the rest of the coalition to rebuild this country so the Iraqi people can have representative government and can know, for the first time in a generation, what freedom is all about.

BLITZER: Secretary Roche, thanks for spending a few moments with -- with us. I know you've been hectically busy. Appreciate it very much.

And to our viewers, here's your chance to weigh in on the war in Iraq. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this, "Where do you think Saddam Hussein is? Hiding in Iraq, dead, left the country?" We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Please vote at cnn.com/wolf.

While you're there, I'd like to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

Celebration, chaos and fear. Kurds take control in northern Iraq as ethnic tension threatens to boil over.

Plus...

(SHOTS)

BLITZER: ....firefight in Baghdad. Ride along as the U.S. Marines battle their way through the Iraqi capital.

And still unaccounted for from the first Gulf War a dozen years ago. The search for Michael Scott Speicher begins once again.

That, much more, all still ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Saddam Hussein going up in flames in Kirkuk where defiance celebrations went on throughout the day.

Welcome back to our continuing coverage. This war may look like it's ending, but hundreds of U.S. sorties still fill the skies every day over Iraq.

CNN's Gary Tuchman is on the video phone now at an air base near the Iraqi border -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Wolf. There continues to be a lower percentage of bombing sorties over Iraq and a higher percentage of airlift sorties. Airlift means taking troops to Iraq, and the reason for that? Coalition control over Iraq means it could take more troops to Iraq. Today we went on an airlift mission with troops who went to central Iraq, and went to war for the first time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: We are over Iraq on one of the 1,700 Sorties that will take place today. This is a transport and supply sortie. Fifteen troops are being transported to the front lines, Marines. And these are the supplies, food, water, helicopter parts. 48,000 tons of supplies have gone on sorties since this war began. 65,000 troops have been transported. You can see most of the troops are sleeping here. They carry their rifles. They get some rest and sleep before they get to Iraq. And this is the first time these Marines going to Iraq.

I want to talk to this gentleman right here. Your name, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

TUCHMAN: Where are you from originally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say that again.

TUCHMAN: Where are you from originally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where I am from, the Dominican Republic and I belong to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 271.

TUCHMAN: I want to ask you, how do you feel about Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I feel pretty excited knowing that I'm doing my part to keep the Iraqi people free and bring freedom and peace to the streets of this area.

TUCHMAN: Are you nervous? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I used to at first. This is my first time flying these airplane. And now I'm not anymore because I know I'm dealing with people who know what they're knowing and know what I'm doing. I'm doing my medical stuff, there doing their fighting stuff, and we know we'll be in good hands. We're going to be good to go.

TUCHMAN: Thank you for talking.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: Most of those Marines are very young and at least one had never been on a plane before until he flew from the United States to the Persian Gulf. hand here they were on this very turbulent ride in a windowless cabin on the bottom of a C-130 left to themselves with their thoughts about what the war has in store for them.

And Wolf, this has been an interesting day for us. We did live reports in central Iraq. Live reports now at this base near the border with Iraq. And at both places we've seen troops who have the same feelings. A lot of them are very happy, because they see a light at the end of tunnel. A lot of them think they'll be going home soon.

Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Gary Tuchman, thanks very much for that report.

And as Kurdish fighters pour into the city of Kirkuk and other areas abandoned by Iraqis forces in Northern Iraq, the United States is trying to ease Turkey's concern even as it builds a troop presence in the north.

CNN's Jane Arraf is in Kirkuk and she joins me live with the latest -- Jane.

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, gunfire has finally died down. But there's been a day of celebrations now. Now, these are small numbers of people, but they certainly make up for their numbers with the noise and enthusiasm. Earlier we saw them do the obligatory destruction of the statue of Saddam Hussein in the square. It took awhile to get this one down. But in the end they succeeded. They beat it for several hours with their shoes before finally pulling it down. They also set on fire a mosaic of the Iraqi president.

An indication of the pent-up frustration and anger that has been here over the years. Now, part of that led to what we saw as frequent looting, just widespread, but limited it seems to government offices. In any government department or businesses owned by members of Saddam Hussein's family, people were carrying away anything they could and even some things they couldn't carry. We saw people trying to drive away tractors that they didn't know how to start.

This is an absolute surreal scene on one street where people were taking away vehicles and there was a dead body sticking out of one taxi, all together a very strange day. Particularly in places like the jails where some former prisoners went in just to see what it looked like, what it felt like to go into these places as free men. Now a lot of these places have been bombed and destroy and now they're looted. Most of the government buildings are in ruins in Kirkuk -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Looting is a huge problem throughout Iraq apparently. Thanks very much, Jane Arraf, for that report.

Battle into the heat of the night. Marines fight it out in Baghdad. We'll take you to the heart of the action.

Plus, where are the American POWs?

Hear what the Pentagon is saying that, much more, all when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: It wasn't a firefight, but an ominous explosion nonetheless. We are told when the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division targeted an abandoned Iraqi position just south of Baghdad.

Welcome back to our continuing coverage.

As an officer at the Central Command put it Baghdad's still an ugly place. Case in point, Australia's ABC last night captured a U.S. Marine convoy's deadly encounter with an approaching car.

A chilling report now from Jeff Thompson. And as with all reports from the front line, parts of this story are graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEOFF THOMPSON, ABC NEWS INTERNATIONAL: Baghdad's day of celebration can become another place by night. Fear of attacks enough to make the Marines in this convoy point their weapons at any civilians who get too close. Vehicles too fast approaching are also in their sights.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay back! Back! Back!

THOMPSON (voice-over): Later what could look like a wave from a car at night is backed up with a warning shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the (EXPLICITED DELETED) back! Back up!

THOMPSON: But some civilians don't seem to be understanding the seriousness of these Marines' intent than this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back!

THOMPSON: Suddenly the Marines believe they are also under attack from the side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ammo! Ammo!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ammo can up!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hurry up! Hurry up! In the streets (UNINTELLIGIBLE) coming. Spray that area right there!

THOMPSON: After five minutes it's over and the convoy is away. And the young Marines seem a little confused as to what it was all about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a tree right by us, and I saw a round hitting the tree coming at us so I know for a fact there was Iraqis shooting at us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tracers that were coming to us were green and white tracers and we use red.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I saw muzzle flashes, I'll say that. And I saw tracers. They were white or green, whatever color, I can't be certain of.

THOMPSON (on camera): It's impossible to say exactly what happened during that firefight or whether it was a firefight at all. But we do know this, a civilian car approached quickly and was shot at and the occupants in it were almost certainly killed. We also saw Marines firing a lot of rounds across the street.

(voice-over): There were incoming tracers. These were American.

(on camera): Is it possible that this fire was coming from other Marines?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes, that's something we'll look at very carefully.

THOMPSON (voice-over): As for the car, it was carrying three Iraqi civilians, now dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think if we killed civilians that's pretty bad, and it's happened before, and I hope it doesn't happen again.

THOMPSON: Such are the dangers of Baghdad by night.

(on camera): This is Geoff Thompson, in Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Power vacuum in Baghdad, and indeed around all of Iraq. Who's really in charge right now? A closer look at the scene on the ground.

Also where are the American POWs? Hear what the Pentagon is saying.

And weapons of mass destruction, it's what the war was said to be all about, so have coalition troops found any? We'll talk a closer look.

That, much more in our next half hour. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN's up-to-the-minute coverage of the war in iraq. In just a moment, the search for an American pilot whose disappearance remains a huge mystery.

But first for the latest headlines we go back to CNN's Heidi Collins in the newsroom in atlanta -- Heidi.

(NEWS BREAK)

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Heidi.

American casualties in Baghdad. In the north, another city falls with little resistance. Here's an update on the battle lines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Much of Iraq still very dangerous. The capital city in the words of the U.S. Central Command.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baghdad's still an ugly place.

BLITZER: U.S. soldiers and Marines encountering the kind of urban warfare that had allied commanders worried. One Marine is dead, 22 wound after Marines pursue what U.S. commanders believe were Iraqi leaders near a mosque in north central Baghdad. The Marines take fire from a mosque. Battle their attackers from the street, but do not enter the building.

Across town near the Palestine Hotel, a suicide bomber on foot strikes at a U.S. Marine checkpoint. Four Marines are seriously wounded. Shortly afterward, a Marine captain speaks to cnn's christiane amanpour.

CAPT. JOE PLENZER, U.S. MARINE CORPS: We came into this fight knowing that when you're dealing with a guy ho's been systematically raping and torturing his own people for as long as he has we expected the dirty tricks we've seen.

BLITZER: In the north, Kirkuk, Kurdish Peshmerga forces backed by U.S. special forces have control of the city. More symbols of Saddam Hussein are brought down. Parts of south central Iraq still treacherous. In Najaf, a prominent Islamic cleric is assassinated during an attack at the revered Imam Ali Mosque. Abdul Majid al- Kheoei the son of the Grand Ayatollah who deposed Saddam Hussein was the prominent leader of Iraq Shiites. He returned to Iraq from exile to urge the Shiites to cooperate with the U.S.-led coalition of the one city the allies are treading carefully around, Tikrit, northwest of Baghdad. Saddam's ancestral home. Fighters loyal to him maintain a heavy presence in Tikrit and CENTCOM acknowledges there are quote, "no substantial U.S. Forces there yet."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Back to Baghdad now for the latest on the tension in the streets.

Let's go live to our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson. He is back in Baghdad himself.

Nic, tell us what's going on right now.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNAITONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, very quiet right now, very, very few people out on the streets. Certainly checkpoints still being maintained, the one behind me a Marine checkpoint outside of this particular hotel where many journalists say that is the scene throughout Baghdad. At key intersections there are military checkpoints on this east side of the river run by U.S. Marines. On the west side of the river run by U.S. Infantry troops.

Now what we're seeing earlier in the day was quite widespread looting. Not only as we had seen before in government buildings, but now in hospitals, in hotels, in government embassies and private stores around the city. What is happening after the looting often is that the buildings are being torched, being set on fire. This is giving a great deal of concern to the people of Baghdad at this time.

It is raising their anxiety that their homes could be targeted. It is raising the questions in their minds why are the Marines, why are the infantry troops not doing enough? The coalition forces, why are they standing by and not stopping the looting? Of course, U.S. Marines say that they just do not have the personnel and the manpower at this time to stop the looting. But it raises a question for many Iraqis about how they -- about how the coalition forces will hand them new developing situation. Now this is something they're watching very closely -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic, it's been about three weeks since the Iraqi government -- what used to be the Iraqi government expelled you and the rest of the CNN team from Baghdad. What a difference three weeks makes. Talk a little bit about your impressions returning to Baghdad now after a nearly a three-week absence.

ROBERTSON: It is a changed place and it has the feel of a changed place. But it still has that eerie feeling of streets mostly deserted, of driving through areas that would normally be busy, thriving shopping areas. To see stores boarded up, some of the boards torn down, broken glass lying in the streets. People milling around on the streets clearly with no official control.

You get beyond those areas, you run into Marine checkpoints. They control the intersections, control some bridges. It's a very -- it is a very different feeling. It is a very strange feeling and it's clearly, clearly a place still in a great state of flux -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson, we are glad you're back in Baghdad for us and for all of our viewers. Nic Robertson reporting tonight live from the Iraqi capital.

The Pentagon, meanwhile is growing more worried about the fate of American POWs following this week's discovery of bloody uniforms. Two of them which bore the names of U.S. service members at a military prison near Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. STANLEY MCCHRYSTAL, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: We are very concerned about the prisoners of war. We do not have intelligence that I could share with you now. We are working very hard to get that. We believe that now that we are in the city and among the population and essentially regime control has gone, that the opportunity to get information about our prisoners goes way up because as a regime can no longer threaten, we believe more people are available for us to talk to. More people may feel free to give us information. So we're very hopeful about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: U.S. intelligence officers are on their way to Iraq to look for a Navy pilot shot down in the first Gulf War a dozen years ago who may have been held in a POW for over these past 12 years. Based on classified information Michael Scott Speicher's status went from killed in action to prisoner of war. Powerful Florida United States Senator says Defense Department mistakes were made and he's convinced the Navy flyer is alive. CNN's Sean Callebs reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amid the spontaneous street celebrations in Baghdad, a sobering assessment Wednesday from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, the coalition effort isn't over.

RUMSFELD: We still must find and ensure the safe return of prisoners of war, those captured in this war as well as any still held from the last Gulf War.

CALLEBS: A reference to Navy pilot Michael Scott Speicher. Speicher's F-18 took off from the USS Saratoga the opening night of the Gulf War in 1991. He was shot down. The next day then-Defense Secretary Dick Cheney listed Speicher as killed in action.

Florida Democratic Senator Bill Nelson says he believes the Defense Department made a mistake.

SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: An eyewitness that drove him from the site of the crash to a hospital. So we know he was alive, and I have seen evidence since that leads me to believe to think he is still alive.

CALLEBS: This is the wreckage of Speicher's F-18 located in 1995 in the Iraqi desert. An ejection seat was never found, neither were human remains.

(on camera): Speicher left a wife and two small children behind. Years after she was declared dead and a headstone placed at Arlington National Cemetery, Speicher's remarried to one of the pilot's best friends. They have since had two children.

NELSON: You can imagine the trauma on an American family like that. CALLEBS (voice-over): And the administration hopes by toppling a regime, they can also find answers to a haunting question.

Sean Callebs, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And add Senator Pat Roberts, the chairman of the Senate of the Intelligence Committee to that list of influential members of the U.S. Congress who believe Scott Speicher still alive, somewhere, somewhere in Iraq. We're going to continue to monitor this story for all of our viewers.

Meanwhile, danger can be found in almost every corner of Iraq. This story of a deadly find beneath a soccer stadium. That's just ahead.

And President Bush with a message for the Iraqi people. Hear what he had to say. All of that coming up in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUSH: ... forward as a unified, independent and sovereign nation that has regained a respected place in the world.

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The new videotaped statements from President Bush and his closest ally are an effort to calm worries that dictatorship will be replaced by indefinite military occupation and to answer any Iraqis who doubt a new day is at hand.

TONY BLAIR, PRIME MINISTER OF BRITAIN: I know how that some of you feared a repeat of 1991 when you thought Saddam's rule was being ended, but he stayed and you suffered. That will not happen this time. This regime will be gone and ended.

KING: The immediate goals of the broadcast are to provide information about humanitarian aid and other government services, seek help searching for weapons of mass destruction, reassure Iraqis the Saddam Hussein regime is gone from power and to promise the United States and Great Britain will quickly transfer power to a new Iraqi administration.

Many Iraqi TV facilities were destroyed in the bombing and many Iraqis still lack power, but the Pentagon is working to get more and more information, critics say propaganda, to the Iraqi people.

MAJ. GEN. GENE RENUART, U.S. AIR FORCE: We're working aggressively to find the contacts within the city and in the country who would like to begin an Iraqi-broadcast network, if you will.

KING: The main target audience is the Iraqi people. (END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: But the White House also hopes these broadcasts and that new Iraqi TV network now in the works will offer some counterbalance to Arab broadcasters who have been highly critical of the war and who suggest that the war's true goal is not the liberation of the Iraqi people, but control of Iraq's oil by the United States and its Western allies. The administration hopes this begins a powerful new message.

And, Wolf, this one last footnote, tomorrow here in Washington the president and the first lady will leave the White House, they will go to the Walter Reed Army Medical Center and the Bethesda Naval Hospital in the Washington suburbs to visit servicemen and women back in the United States being treated for their injuries suffered in combat -- Wolf

BLITZER: John King, that's always a difficult assignment for the president and the first lady. John King at the White House, thanks very much.

This important programming note. Sunday on our "LATE EDITION," Sunday at noon eastern, I'll have a special interview with the commander of Operation Iraqi freedmen -- Freedom, excuse me. General Tommy Franks, he'll join me Sunday on CNN's "LATE EDITION," noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

You won't believe where U.S.-led forces are finding weapons in Iraq. A startling discovery just ahead.

A rally to support U.S. troops from a place Americans hold sacred. That story and more. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There was an interesting find today in eastern Iraq. U.S. Marines discovered this al Samoud missile hidden under the city's soccer stadium in al Amara (ph). Local population pointed it out to them. It's not clear if the missile falls under the category of banned weapons, but there's no indication it was armed with a chemical warhead.

In New York City, a rally in support of the troops at Ground Zero. CNN's Maria Hinojosa was there.

MARIA HINOJOSA, 1CNN URBAN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, New York City has seen huge anti-war demonstrations, but today was a chance for a huge demonstration in support of the troops, in support of the war.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA (voice-over): They gathered in the sacred place, they said, to send love lace with patriotism to the troops.

There was seriousness. Vietnam veteran William Bekzer lost his son Jason on September 11. WILLIAM BEKZER, FATHER OF 9/11 VICTIM: It's extremely important that they know that they have 100 percent of our support. I was in 'Nam. I know what the anti-war demonstrations did to our morale. I don't want to see that happen to our guys.

HINOJOSA: But this being New York City...

RAY FIORE, GROUND ZERO WORKER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). The same guy that put the flag on Saddam Hussein's face was from Brooklyn. He was ingenuitive, because Brooklyn people come up with things like that.

HINOJOSA: The estimated 25,000 people who gathered here are the workers of New York City, many in hard hats and firefighters. Some with sons and daughters in the military.

DEGA GOMEZ, MOTHER: He feels that he needs to be there to bring freedom and leave it to people who cannot help themselves and we are the only ones that could do it.

CALLEBS: The U.S. has never claimed any link between Iraq and the 9/11 attack. But it has alleged a link between Iraq and al Qaeda which carried out the September 11 attacks.

And these politicians said watching Saddam's statue fall in Baghdad is a victory in the war on terrorism.

GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: Let's melt it down. Let's bring it to New York and let's put it in one of the girders that's going to rise over here as a symbol of the rebuilding of New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: Wolf, there were a few families of September 11 who had pictures of their relatives who died here. But like the rest of the country, they're also divided. Some September 11 families said to me said they were uncomfortable with any political rallies being held near this site whatsoever -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Maria Hinojosa reporting for us from New York.

So where do you think Saddam Hussein is? You still have a chance to vote. The result of "Our Web Question of the Day" will be revealed in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on "Our Web Question of the Day." Where do you think Saddam Hussein is? Forty-two percent of you think he's hiding in Iraq, 23 percent think he's dead, 35 percent think he left the country. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

Stay with CNN throughout the night for up-to-the-minute coverage. I'll be back in one hour for two hours of special coverage with Paula Zahn. A reminder, you can catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS each weekday this time, 5 p.m. Eastern. Thanks very much. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight live from Kuwait City. Up next, Lou Dobbs to pick up out live coverage.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired April 10, 2003 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Setbacks in Iraq. A suicide bomber strikes at U.S. Marines as Americans battle diehard backers of Saddam Hussein. A top Shiite leader assassinated at his mosque. And looters run wild in the cities.
First in Baghdad. Now in the north. The regime is falling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A long year of fear and cruelty is ending.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: But what new dangers lie ahead? Where is Saddam Hussein? Where are the chemicals? And where are the POWs? Growing fears for the fate of Americans taken captive on this day 22 of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS from Kuwait City with correspondents from around the world.

WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts now.

BLITZER: A turning point in the last 24 hours. What a difference, perhaps, a day makes. Yesterday, joy and jubilation in the streets of Baghdad. Today, terror in those same streets and the realization this war is not over yet.

Hello from Kuwait City. I'm Wolf (r)MD-BO¯Blitzer reporting.

The collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime has brought anarchy, most notably uncontrolled looting in parts of the country. For coalition forces, the fighting is far from finished, and there are new threats -- like today's suicide attack on U.S. Marines. The rapid collapse of Iraqi forces in the north brings on a whole new set of broader, strategic problems.

Standing by live this hour, CNN's Jane Arraf -- she's in the northern city of Kirkuk -- and in Washington, the Secretary of the Air Force, James Roach, but we begin in Baghdad with CNN's Christiane Amanpour -- Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's nightfall, obviously, now, and we've heard some sporadic shooting in the region of the Palestine Hotel. It is quite dangerous at nighttime, and everybody's advised sort of not to go out wandering around, but, of course, today during the day just before dusk, there was a suicide attack against a Marine position in Saddam City.

Now what happened, according to the top marine spokesman here, was that a man who had strapped explosives to himself had approached a Marine checkpoint and had detonated those explosives, wounding four U.S. Marines. We don't know how serious those wounds are, and the spokesman has just said that the official word is that four have been wounded.

There were, earlier, some conflicting reports suggesting there may have been casualties, but when we pressed the spokesman in terms of fatalities, he said "No, at the moment they are listed as wounded".

Now, he also said that the Marines, since they arrived in this city yesterday, are prepared for all manner of challenges and attacks against them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We came into this fight knowing that when you're dealing with a guy who's been systematically raping and torturing his own people for as long as he has, we expected all the dirty tricks we've seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Now there have been a lot of Marine checkpoints put up all over this city, and they're quite a heavy presence on this side of the river, of Marines, and on the other side of the river, there is the U.S. Army.

Certainly what we've seen, though, is that a lot of people are extremely happy to see the U.S. forces here. There's a lot of waving still. There's a lot of thumbs up. There's a lot of thank yous even when we as the press drive through the cities, they tend to wave and think it's great to see the foreigners in town right now.

But the flip side to that is that there is also a security vacuum in existence right now in Baghdad and also as we've seen it in Basra in the south. And neither the U.S. Marines nor the Army have said that they're willing to take the job of policing the city just yet.

And so there's a great deal of looting going on. It is not just government buildings, which is how it started out yesterday, but it's also now private places, private properties. There are some embassies and, most worryingly for the people of this city, there is also looting at the hospitals.

That means vital medicine and equipment is being taken out of hospitals at a time when there are quite significant numbers of patients, casualties of this war, in those hospitals, who need to be treated. So humanitarian workers are very concerned about that.

And as to the matter of Saddam Hussein, there are so many rumors going around. People are still a little nervous that perhaps he'll pop up somewhere some time, and there are all sorts of rumors about where he may be. Some say they've seen him in their rear-view mirror, driving in a car. Others say no, he's fled with his henchmen to Syria. There's still quite a lot of nervousness -- the fact that they don't know whether he's dead or alive. Where he is is keeping them on tender hooks right now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Are you suggesting, Christiane, that a lot of Iraqis, at least in Baghdad, are waiting or still on the sidelines -- not yet 100% convinced that Saddam Hussein is gone?

AMANPOUR: Yes. Certainly those we've talked to. Look, I think they know very well the writing is on the wall, and they know that the death knell has been sounded for this regime.

But they're still a little nervous. Where is he? Why hasn't he shown up -- dead or alive? And, you know, they still have been so traumatized over so long and have had this pervasive presence in their life for so long that it's difficult without seeing the dead body, if you like, or the exiled body or the escaped body, to be quite confident that it's completely over.

Of course, daily their confidence does grow with the presence of the troops here, but because of the somewhat lawless and disorderly conduct of a lot of people here -- and the looters -- there is a certain amount of nervousness about what's going on here right now.

BLITZER: CNN's Christiane Amanpour. She's now in Baghdad for us. Christiane, be safe over there. Thanks very much.

And as she just mentioned, looters have been running wild in the streets of Baghdad -- indeed, throughout much of Iraq, making off with everything they can physically carry. While the Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz did not stick around to protect his own home -- shown here -- other Iraqis are doing just that, and relief agencies say that's keeping hospital staffers and other vital infrastructure workers away from their jobs. The hospitals themselves are being looted -- along with palaces, shops, factories, and at least one embassy.

Meanwhile, a leading Shiite Muslim cleric was assassinated today at the Imam Ali Mosque, a Shiite holy site in the city of Najaf. A family friend tells CNN that Sayed Abdul Majid al-Khoei was shot inside the Mosque, then dragged outside and stabbed to death. The friend was injured in the same attack.

Al-Khoei, who had lived abroad in recent years, was expected to urge Iraqi Shiites to cooperate with The United States. The White House is condemning the murder -- calling the killing a reminder of the dangers in Iraq.

As Iraq quickly falls into a state of lawlessness, if not utter chaos, the power vacuum has drawn an expression of concern from the United Nations Secretary-General, Kofi Annan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOFI ANNAN, UNITED NATIONS SECRETARY-GENERAL: It appears there's no function in government in Iraq at the moment. We also saw the scenes of jubilation, but, of course, when you think of the casualties, both military and civilian, the Iraqis have paid a heavy price for this. And I've also seen -- we've seen -- scenes of looting and. obviously, law and order must be a major concern.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So what are the residents of Baghdad saying one day after the fall of the capital to U.S. forces? CNN senior international correspondent, Walter Rodgers, has been taking the pulse of the city.

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Imagine a city the size of Baghdad -- six to seven million people, a large urban area -- and there's not a single working telephone now, and there's no electricity. That's what the residents of Baghdad are facing after this war and, again, the infrastructure is collapsing slowly around the edges.

Now, despite what international (r)MD-IT¯aid agencies suggest, there are not people who appear to be without food here. Many Iraqis, long before the war started, began stockpiling and storehousing food, and I began asking Iraqis today, "Do you have enough food?"

They said, "Yes."

I said, "Plenty of food?"

They grinned and said, "Yes, plenty of food."

But water's a little dodgy, and, of course, the days are getting hotter as spring pushes on toward summer.

I talked with many Iraqis today about their major concerns, and the major concern continues to be uncertainty -- the uncertainty of what sort of life they'll lead after the collapse of the regime of Saddam Hussein, which as terrible as it may have been, was at least predictable.

Now, for many (r)MD-IT¯Iraqis, they walk through their streets, and I talk to them. And what they tell me is they are glad Saddam is gone although some are confessing to fear about what follows.

Many fear that it will be just one tyrant replacing another tyrant. One Iraqi soldier -- one Iraqi citizen -- told me that what he feared most was that all they were going to get was another thief, someone who would steal the oil, as Saddam Hussein did, and then exploit the country's natural resources for his own personal enhancement.

BLITZER: Walter Rodgers reporting live -- reporting, excuse me, from the scene.

Meanwhile, there were apparently some Iraqi casualties in a firefight in a Baghdad mosque that killed one U.S. Marine and injured 22. The Central Command says U.S. forces believe senior Iraqi leaders, possibly including Saddam Hussein himself, were hiding there. Fighting continued in the streets as U.S. Marines moved on a palace and the home of a Ba'ath Party leader.

The chaotic situation in Baghdad is taking a toll on healthcare. The World Health Organization reports hospitals are running short of water, medicine and even workers, and the Red Cross says some hospitals have been looted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROLAND HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN, INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE RED CROSS: We are very puzzled, as everybody, and distressed by the widespread attacks and looting that is going on absolutely everywhere and the hospitals themselves have come under attack of people with a purpose of looting.

There are a lot of people carrying weapons around and making it very difficult for civilians in need of medical care to actually reach to the hospitals and we have many cases of people reporting or calling out that they are in need of regular treatment such as dialysis and they just cannot make it; they cannot go from one part of the city to the other and cannot reach the hospital, which is extremely difficult for them and difficult to think of any form of pollution unless total security can be re-established in the city in general.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: As for the number of Iraqi casualties, it's hard, of course, to say. The Iraqi government had told Abu Dhabi television that more than 1,200 Iraqi civilians had been killed and more than 5,000 wounded, but that was at least two days ago. And with the government apparently now collapsed, there are no new numbers being reported.

The U.S. Air Force says coalition aircraft have flown more than 33,000 sorties so far in this war. Air power destroyed much of Saddam Hussein's military before it each had a chance to fight, and air power has been used to target the Iraqi leader himself.

Joining me now from Washington is the Secretary of the Air Force, James Roche. Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us.

The "shock and awe" campaign, a lot of people in the beginning thought it didn't work, that it didn't shock and awe the Iraqis initially as much as you thought it would. Did it?

JAMES ROCHE, SECY. OF THE AIR FORCE: Wolf, we never use the expression "shock and awe." Lots of other people did.

We worked very closely with the other component commanders with Tommy Franks, who is the combatant commander, on the plan that had lots of flexibility built into it. We could do that because of technology and the way we laid out a plan, so that General Franks was able to have surprise in the south even though everyone knew this battle was going to happen for a couple of months. "Shock and awe" was never the intent. The intent was to show that we had overwhelming power and that we could command air defense dominance and we did, and air superiority, and we worked closely with our colleagues on the ground.

BLITZER: It's now been more than three weeks. Is the air war effectively over at least -- or at least, at this point, has it been dramatically scaled back?

ROCHE: It's being scaled back because a lot of the fixed targets we went after we've gone after. We've now been working very closely with the forces on the ground, and when I say we it's the combat air forces -- the United States Air Force, Marine, Navy air power and coalition air power working closely with maneuver units on the ground.

Things are getting more static. Now it's a matter of being prepared and that if we're called upon to help them in certain situations.

Secondly, we still have a lot of transports bringing equipment into the area and we'll be bringing in more and more food and being able to take care of our own forces, plus anything else we can do to solve some of the humanitarian problems that are happening.

BLITZER: As you know, Mr. Secretary, the Air Force was called in on at least two occasions, maybe more, to drop a bomb hoping that it would kill Saddam Hussein and perhaps one or two of his sons. The intelligence presumably was good. Do you have any better idea right now whether or not mission was accomplished?

ROCHE: No.

From our point of view the mission that was accomplished was to put the bombs precisely on the target and have them have the explosive effect that they did. Whether or not we were able to get Saddam and his sons, we don't know yet. In one case, we have to go looking for some DNA.

What's remarkable, though, is we were able to bring those weapons to bear within an hour of the intelligence that said that, in fact, he might be there. That's quite remarkable.

BLITZER: Are you looking for that DNA in the rubble of that Monsour district in Baghdad where he was targeted the other day?

ROCHE: Well, I'm sure some people are, yes We would like to know who was -- who was killed in that incident. Absolutely.

BLITZER: Since then, has there been any sign whatsoever of life on the part of Saddam Hussein? Have you seen any evidence of communications or command and control that he might still be alive?

ROCHE: No, sir. I have not -- we have not. And, in fact, it's becoming somewhat irrelevant. His regime has certainly collapsed. The leadership is somewhere. They may be curled up in a hole some place. The point is now Iraq is now free and the real issue is to take care of some of these groups of thugs who are shooting back at our coalition forces as well as to try to stop or deter the suicide attacks and to get on trying to restore the Iraqi society for Iraqis.

But this regime is history.

BLITZER: As you know, Mr. Secretary, a lot of suspicion, a lot of speculation the last stand of Saddam Hussein and his Republican Guard -- Special Republican Guard will be in his hometown of Tikrit. Has airpower effectively done all it can do in that ancestral hometown of the Iraqi leader?

ROCHE: Well, we've done a lot in Tikrit, but there's no reason to reduce every building to rubble, Wolf. We will be there when called upon, either to pick up on some intelligence and strike very quickly, or to work with any of the ground troops as they start to deal with Tikrit.

BLITZER: How much longer do you see this war going on? Is there -- is it going to be days? Weeks? Months? What's your assessment?

ROCHE: Well, Wolf, it's a matter of defining what constitutes war. If it's trying to weed out every one of these groups of thugs, it may go on for a bit.

The point is, at this stage, we effectively have won the conflict. The regime is gone. Now it's a matter of trying to work with the people in the society and the rest of the coalition to rebuild this country so the Iraqi people can have representative government and can know, for the first time in a generation, what freedom is all about.

BLITZER: Secretary Roche, thanks for spending a few moments with -- with us. I know you've been hectically busy. Appreciate it very much.

And to our viewers, here's your chance to weigh in on the war in Iraq. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this, "Where do you think Saddam Hussein is? Hiding in Iraq, dead, left the country?" We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Please vote at cnn.com/wolf.

While you're there, I'd like to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

Celebration, chaos and fear. Kurds take control in northern Iraq as ethnic tension threatens to boil over.

Plus...

(SHOTS)

BLITZER: ....firefight in Baghdad. Ride along as the U.S. Marines battle their way through the Iraqi capital.

And still unaccounted for from the first Gulf War a dozen years ago. The search for Michael Scott Speicher begins once again.

That, much more, all still ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Saddam Hussein going up in flames in Kirkuk where defiance celebrations went on throughout the day.

Welcome back to our continuing coverage. This war may look like it's ending, but hundreds of U.S. sorties still fill the skies every day over Iraq.

CNN's Gary Tuchman is on the video phone now at an air base near the Iraqi border -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Wolf. There continues to be a lower percentage of bombing sorties over Iraq and a higher percentage of airlift sorties. Airlift means taking troops to Iraq, and the reason for that? Coalition control over Iraq means it could take more troops to Iraq. Today we went on an airlift mission with troops who went to central Iraq, and went to war for the first time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: We are over Iraq on one of the 1,700 Sorties that will take place today. This is a transport and supply sortie. Fifteen troops are being transported to the front lines, Marines. And these are the supplies, food, water, helicopter parts. 48,000 tons of supplies have gone on sorties since this war began. 65,000 troops have been transported. You can see most of the troops are sleeping here. They carry their rifles. They get some rest and sleep before they get to Iraq. And this is the first time these Marines going to Iraq.

I want to talk to this gentleman right here. Your name, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

TUCHMAN: Where are you from originally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say that again.

TUCHMAN: Where are you from originally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where I am from, the Dominican Republic and I belong to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 271.

TUCHMAN: I want to ask you, how do you feel about Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I feel pretty excited knowing that I'm doing my part to keep the Iraqi people free and bring freedom and peace to the streets of this area.

TUCHMAN: Are you nervous? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I used to at first. This is my first time flying these airplane. And now I'm not anymore because I know I'm dealing with people who know what they're knowing and know what I'm doing. I'm doing my medical stuff, there doing their fighting stuff, and we know we'll be in good hands. We're going to be good to go.

TUCHMAN: Thank you for talking.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: Most of those Marines are very young and at least one had never been on a plane before until he flew from the United States to the Persian Gulf. hand here they were on this very turbulent ride in a windowless cabin on the bottom of a C-130 left to themselves with their thoughts about what the war has in store for them.

And Wolf, this has been an interesting day for us. We did live reports in central Iraq. Live reports now at this base near the border with Iraq. And at both places we've seen troops who have the same feelings. A lot of them are very happy, because they see a light at the end of tunnel. A lot of them think they'll be going home soon.

Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Gary Tuchman, thanks very much for that report.

And as Kurdish fighters pour into the city of Kirkuk and other areas abandoned by Iraqis forces in Northern Iraq, the United States is trying to ease Turkey's concern even as it builds a troop presence in the north.

CNN's Jane Arraf is in Kirkuk and she joins me live with the latest -- Jane.

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, gunfire has finally died down. But there's been a day of celebrations now. Now, these are small numbers of people, but they certainly make up for their numbers with the noise and enthusiasm. Earlier we saw them do the obligatory destruction of the statue of Saddam Hussein in the square. It took awhile to get this one down. But in the end they succeeded. They beat it for several hours with their shoes before finally pulling it down. They also set on fire a mosaic of the Iraqi president.

An indication of the pent-up frustration and anger that has been here over the years. Now, part of that led to what we saw as frequent looting, just widespread, but limited it seems to government offices. In any government department or businesses owned by members of Saddam Hussein's family, people were carrying away anything they could and even some things they couldn't carry. We saw people trying to drive away tractors that they didn't know how to start.

This is an absolute surreal scene on one street where people were taking away vehicles and there was a dead body sticking out of one taxi, all together a very strange day. Particularly in places like the jails where some former prisoners went in just to see what it looked like, what it felt like to go into these places as free men. Now a lot of these places have been bombed and destroy and now they're looted. Most of the government buildings are in ruins in Kirkuk -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Looting is a huge problem throughout Iraq apparently. Thanks very much, Jane Arraf, for that report.

Battle into the heat of the night. Marines fight it out in Baghdad. We'll take you to the heart of the action.

Plus, where are the American POWs?

Hear what the Pentagon is saying that, much more, all when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: It wasn't a firefight, but an ominous explosion nonetheless. We are told when the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division targeted an abandoned Iraqi position just south of Baghdad.

Welcome back to our continuing coverage.

As an officer at the Central Command put it Baghdad's still an ugly place. Case in point, Australia's ABC last night captured a U.S. Marine convoy's deadly encounter with an approaching car.

A chilling report now from Jeff Thompson. And as with all reports from the front line, parts of this story are graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEOFF THOMPSON, ABC NEWS INTERNATIONAL: Baghdad's day of celebration can become another place by night. Fear of attacks enough to make the Marines in this convoy point their weapons at any civilians who get too close. Vehicles too fast approaching are also in their sights.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay back! Back! Back!

THOMPSON (voice-over): Later what could look like a wave from a car at night is backed up with a warning shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the (EXPLICITED DELETED) back! Back up!

THOMPSON: But some civilians don't seem to be understanding the seriousness of these Marines' intent than this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back!

THOMPSON: Suddenly the Marines believe they are also under attack from the side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ammo! Ammo!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ammo can up!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hurry up! Hurry up! In the streets (UNINTELLIGIBLE) coming. Spray that area right there!

THOMPSON: After five minutes it's over and the convoy is away. And the young Marines seem a little confused as to what it was all about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a tree right by us, and I saw a round hitting the tree coming at us so I know for a fact there was Iraqis shooting at us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tracers that were coming to us were green and white tracers and we use red.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I saw muzzle flashes, I'll say that. And I saw tracers. They were white or green, whatever color, I can't be certain of.

THOMPSON (on camera): It's impossible to say exactly what happened during that firefight or whether it was a firefight at all. But we do know this, a civilian car approached quickly and was shot at and the occupants in it were almost certainly killed. We also saw Marines firing a lot of rounds across the street.

(voice-over): There were incoming tracers. These were American.

(on camera): Is it possible that this fire was coming from other Marines?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes, that's something we'll look at very carefully.

THOMPSON (voice-over): As for the car, it was carrying three Iraqi civilians, now dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think if we killed civilians that's pretty bad, and it's happened before, and I hope it doesn't happen again.

THOMPSON: Such are the dangers of Baghdad by night.

(on camera): This is Geoff Thompson, in Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Power vacuum in Baghdad, and indeed around all of Iraq. Who's really in charge right now? A closer look at the scene on the ground.

Also where are the American POWs? Hear what the Pentagon is saying.

And weapons of mass destruction, it's what the war was said to be all about, so have coalition troops found any? We'll talk a closer look.

That, much more in our next half hour. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN's up-to-the-minute coverage of the war in iraq. In just a moment, the search for an American pilot whose disappearance remains a huge mystery.

But first for the latest headlines we go back to CNN's Heidi Collins in the newsroom in atlanta -- Heidi.

(NEWS BREAK)

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Heidi.

American casualties in Baghdad. In the north, another city falls with little resistance. Here's an update on the battle lines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Much of Iraq still very dangerous. The capital city in the words of the U.S. Central Command.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baghdad's still an ugly place.

BLITZER: U.S. soldiers and Marines encountering the kind of urban warfare that had allied commanders worried. One Marine is dead, 22 wound after Marines pursue what U.S. commanders believe were Iraqi leaders near a mosque in north central Baghdad. The Marines take fire from a mosque. Battle their attackers from the street, but do not enter the building.

Across town near the Palestine Hotel, a suicide bomber on foot strikes at a U.S. Marine checkpoint. Four Marines are seriously wounded. Shortly afterward, a Marine captain speaks to cnn's christiane amanpour.

CAPT. JOE PLENZER, U.S. MARINE CORPS: We came into this fight knowing that when you're dealing with a guy ho's been systematically raping and torturing his own people for as long as he has we expected the dirty tricks we've seen.

BLITZER: In the north, Kirkuk, Kurdish Peshmerga forces backed by U.S. special forces have control of the city. More symbols of Saddam Hussein are brought down. Parts of south central Iraq still treacherous. In Najaf, a prominent Islamic cleric is assassinated during an attack at the revered Imam Ali Mosque. Abdul Majid al- Kheoei the son of the Grand Ayatollah who deposed Saddam Hussein was the prominent leader of Iraq Shiites. He returned to Iraq from exile to urge the Shiites to cooperate with the U.S.-led coalition of the one city the allies are treading carefully around, Tikrit, northwest of Baghdad. Saddam's ancestral home. Fighters loyal to him maintain a heavy presence in Tikrit and CENTCOM acknowledges there are quote, "no substantial U.S. Forces there yet."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Back to Baghdad now for the latest on the tension in the streets.

Let's go live to our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson. He is back in Baghdad himself.

Nic, tell us what's going on right now.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNAITONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, very quiet right now, very, very few people out on the streets. Certainly checkpoints still being maintained, the one behind me a Marine checkpoint outside of this particular hotel where many journalists say that is the scene throughout Baghdad. At key intersections there are military checkpoints on this east side of the river run by U.S. Marines. On the west side of the river run by U.S. Infantry troops.

Now what we're seeing earlier in the day was quite widespread looting. Not only as we had seen before in government buildings, but now in hospitals, in hotels, in government embassies and private stores around the city. What is happening after the looting often is that the buildings are being torched, being set on fire. This is giving a great deal of concern to the people of Baghdad at this time.

It is raising their anxiety that their homes could be targeted. It is raising the questions in their minds why are the Marines, why are the infantry troops not doing enough? The coalition forces, why are they standing by and not stopping the looting? Of course, U.S. Marines say that they just do not have the personnel and the manpower at this time to stop the looting. But it raises a question for many Iraqis about how they -- about how the coalition forces will hand them new developing situation. Now this is something they're watching very closely -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic, it's been about three weeks since the Iraqi government -- what used to be the Iraqi government expelled you and the rest of the CNN team from Baghdad. What a difference three weeks makes. Talk a little bit about your impressions returning to Baghdad now after a nearly a three-week absence.

ROBERTSON: It is a changed place and it has the feel of a changed place. But it still has that eerie feeling of streets mostly deserted, of driving through areas that would normally be busy, thriving shopping areas. To see stores boarded up, some of the boards torn down, broken glass lying in the streets. People milling around on the streets clearly with no official control.

You get beyond those areas, you run into Marine checkpoints. They control the intersections, control some bridges. It's a very -- it is a very different feeling. It is a very strange feeling and it's clearly, clearly a place still in a great state of flux -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson, we are glad you're back in Baghdad for us and for all of our viewers. Nic Robertson reporting tonight live from the Iraqi capital.

The Pentagon, meanwhile is growing more worried about the fate of American POWs following this week's discovery of bloody uniforms. Two of them which bore the names of U.S. service members at a military prison near Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. STANLEY MCCHRYSTAL, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: We are very concerned about the prisoners of war. We do not have intelligence that I could share with you now. We are working very hard to get that. We believe that now that we are in the city and among the population and essentially regime control has gone, that the opportunity to get information about our prisoners goes way up because as a regime can no longer threaten, we believe more people are available for us to talk to. More people may feel free to give us information. So we're very hopeful about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: U.S. intelligence officers are on their way to Iraq to look for a Navy pilot shot down in the first Gulf War a dozen years ago who may have been held in a POW for over these past 12 years. Based on classified information Michael Scott Speicher's status went from killed in action to prisoner of war. Powerful Florida United States Senator says Defense Department mistakes were made and he's convinced the Navy flyer is alive. CNN's Sean Callebs reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amid the spontaneous street celebrations in Baghdad, a sobering assessment Wednesday from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, the coalition effort isn't over.

RUMSFELD: We still must find and ensure the safe return of prisoners of war, those captured in this war as well as any still held from the last Gulf War.

CALLEBS: A reference to Navy pilot Michael Scott Speicher. Speicher's F-18 took off from the USS Saratoga the opening night of the Gulf War in 1991. He was shot down. The next day then-Defense Secretary Dick Cheney listed Speicher as killed in action.

Florida Democratic Senator Bill Nelson says he believes the Defense Department made a mistake.

SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: An eyewitness that drove him from the site of the crash to a hospital. So we know he was alive, and I have seen evidence since that leads me to believe to think he is still alive.

CALLEBS: This is the wreckage of Speicher's F-18 located in 1995 in the Iraqi desert. An ejection seat was never found, neither were human remains.

(on camera): Speicher left a wife and two small children behind. Years after she was declared dead and a headstone placed at Arlington National Cemetery, Speicher's remarried to one of the pilot's best friends. They have since had two children.

NELSON: You can imagine the trauma on an American family like that. CALLEBS (voice-over): And the administration hopes by toppling a regime, they can also find answers to a haunting question.

Sean Callebs, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And add Senator Pat Roberts, the chairman of the Senate of the Intelligence Committee to that list of influential members of the U.S. Congress who believe Scott Speicher still alive, somewhere, somewhere in Iraq. We're going to continue to monitor this story for all of our viewers.

Meanwhile, danger can be found in almost every corner of Iraq. This story of a deadly find beneath a soccer stadium. That's just ahead.

And President Bush with a message for the Iraqi people. Hear what he had to say. All of that coming up in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUSH: ... forward as a unified, independent and sovereign nation that has regained a respected place in the world.

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The new videotaped statements from President Bush and his closest ally are an effort to calm worries that dictatorship will be replaced by indefinite military occupation and to answer any Iraqis who doubt a new day is at hand.

TONY BLAIR, PRIME MINISTER OF BRITAIN: I know how that some of you feared a repeat of 1991 when you thought Saddam's rule was being ended, but he stayed and you suffered. That will not happen this time. This regime will be gone and ended.

KING: The immediate goals of the broadcast are to provide information about humanitarian aid and other government services, seek help searching for weapons of mass destruction, reassure Iraqis the Saddam Hussein regime is gone from power and to promise the United States and Great Britain will quickly transfer power to a new Iraqi administration.

Many Iraqi TV facilities were destroyed in the bombing and many Iraqis still lack power, but the Pentagon is working to get more and more information, critics say propaganda, to the Iraqi people.

MAJ. GEN. GENE RENUART, U.S. AIR FORCE: We're working aggressively to find the contacts within the city and in the country who would like to begin an Iraqi-broadcast network, if you will.

KING: The main target audience is the Iraqi people. (END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: But the White House also hopes these broadcasts and that new Iraqi TV network now in the works will offer some counterbalance to Arab broadcasters who have been highly critical of the war and who suggest that the war's true goal is not the liberation of the Iraqi people, but control of Iraq's oil by the United States and its Western allies. The administration hopes this begins a powerful new message.

And, Wolf, this one last footnote, tomorrow here in Washington the president and the first lady will leave the White House, they will go to the Walter Reed Army Medical Center and the Bethesda Naval Hospital in the Washington suburbs to visit servicemen and women back in the United States being treated for their injuries suffered in combat -- Wolf

BLITZER: John King, that's always a difficult assignment for the president and the first lady. John King at the White House, thanks very much.

This important programming note. Sunday on our "LATE EDITION," Sunday at noon eastern, I'll have a special interview with the commander of Operation Iraqi freedmen -- Freedom, excuse me. General Tommy Franks, he'll join me Sunday on CNN's "LATE EDITION," noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

You won't believe where U.S.-led forces are finding weapons in Iraq. A startling discovery just ahead.

A rally to support U.S. troops from a place Americans hold sacred. That story and more. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There was an interesting find today in eastern Iraq. U.S. Marines discovered this al Samoud missile hidden under the city's soccer stadium in al Amara (ph). Local population pointed it out to them. It's not clear if the missile falls under the category of banned weapons, but there's no indication it was armed with a chemical warhead.

In New York City, a rally in support of the troops at Ground Zero. CNN's Maria Hinojosa was there.

MARIA HINOJOSA, 1CNN URBAN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, New York City has seen huge anti-war demonstrations, but today was a chance for a huge demonstration in support of the troops, in support of the war.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA (voice-over): They gathered in the sacred place, they said, to send love lace with patriotism to the troops.

There was seriousness. Vietnam veteran William Bekzer lost his son Jason on September 11. WILLIAM BEKZER, FATHER OF 9/11 VICTIM: It's extremely important that they know that they have 100 percent of our support. I was in 'Nam. I know what the anti-war demonstrations did to our morale. I don't want to see that happen to our guys.

HINOJOSA: But this being New York City...

RAY FIORE, GROUND ZERO WORKER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). The same guy that put the flag on Saddam Hussein's face was from Brooklyn. He was ingenuitive, because Brooklyn people come up with things like that.

HINOJOSA: The estimated 25,000 people who gathered here are the workers of New York City, many in hard hats and firefighters. Some with sons and daughters in the military.

DEGA GOMEZ, MOTHER: He feels that he needs to be there to bring freedom and leave it to people who cannot help themselves and we are the only ones that could do it.

CALLEBS: The U.S. has never claimed any link between Iraq and the 9/11 attack. But it has alleged a link between Iraq and al Qaeda which carried out the September 11 attacks.

And these politicians said watching Saddam's statue fall in Baghdad is a victory in the war on terrorism.

GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: Let's melt it down. Let's bring it to New York and let's put it in one of the girders that's going to rise over here as a symbol of the rebuilding of New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: Wolf, there were a few families of September 11 who had pictures of their relatives who died here. But like the rest of the country, they're also divided. Some September 11 families said to me said they were uncomfortable with any political rallies being held near this site whatsoever -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Maria Hinojosa reporting for us from New York.

So where do you think Saddam Hussein is? You still have a chance to vote. The result of "Our Web Question of the Day" will be revealed in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on "Our Web Question of the Day." Where do you think Saddam Hussein is? Forty-two percent of you think he's hiding in Iraq, 23 percent think he's dead, 35 percent think he left the country. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

Stay with CNN throughout the night for up-to-the-minute coverage. I'll be back in one hour for two hours of special coverage with Paula Zahn. A reminder, you can catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS each weekday this time, 5 p.m. Eastern. Thanks very much. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight live from Kuwait City. Up next, Lou Dobbs to pick up out live coverage.

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