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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
Coalition Troops Take Mosul
Aired April 11, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Good evening, everyone.
U.S. and Kurdish forces tonight are in control of Iraq's northern oil region. Coalition troops took the city of Mosul today, one day after they seized the region's oil capital, Kirkuk. Mosul fell when the Iraqi army's 5th Corps surrendered entirely and without a fight. The corps would normally have a strength of some 30,000 troops, but only 15,000 were reported to be at their posts when their commanders surrendered. Many of those troops deserted their units and are heading home on foot.
U.S. forces in Baghdad are trying to stop looters from ransacking government buildings. They've increased security at checkpoints and declared a curfew in parts of the city. Coalition forces have only been in Baghdad for 36 hours. Many Iraqis are asking soldiers and Marines to restore order now. More coalition units are being sent to Baghdad, including reinforcements from the 101st Airborne Division.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said today the looting is what he called a transitional phase on the way to freedom from Saddam Hussein's rule. And Secretary Rumsfeld said that coalition forces are stopping looting whenever they see it. Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): With television images showing looting and lawlessness in Baghdad, the Pentagon was again on the defensive.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It's untidy, and freedom is untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. They're also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what is going to happen here.
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon says limited numbers of U.S. troops in Baghdad are stopping looting when they can, especially to ensure hospitals and other vital civil services continue to operate. But even as more U.S. troops move into the city from the south, the Pentagon is pressing other countries to donate police forces for Iraq so the U.S. can concentrate on finishing the war and finding POWs, banned weapons, and Saddam Hussein's regime. To that end, U.S. troops are being issued a unique set of wanted posters.
BRIGADIER GENERAL VINCENT BROOKS, CENTCOM: And this deck of cards is one example of what we provide to soldiers out -- soldiers and Marines out in the field, with the faces of the individuals and what their role is.
MCINTYRE: Top of the deck is the ace of spades, Saddam Hussein. The U.S. still doesn't know if he was killed in a devastating air strike that leveled several buildings in a Baghdad residential area on April 7. Saddam's two sons, Qusay and Uday, may have also been killed at the time. Since the strike there has been no sign of the three or evidence that they are wielding any political power.
Lower in the deck is Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz. His luxurious Baghdad home has been ransacked by looters, but he's nowhere to be found.
Saddam's half-brother, Barzan Ibrahim al-Hasan, former head of internal security, was targeted in another air strike that destroyed a safe house in a town about 55 miles west of Baghdad Thursday. Results of that still unknown.
Of the 52 cards, only the king of spades, Ali Hassan al-Majeed, the man dubbed Chemical Ali by the U.S., is believed to be dead as a result of an air strike on his Basra villa.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: At this point, the Pentagon says it has no firm information about Saddam Hussein, whether he is alive or dead or his whereabouts. The Pentagon says some senior leaders may have slipped into Syria, but they don't know if it's anybody in the top ten.
And the hunt is also still on for those weapons of mass destruction and, of course, American prisoners of war -- Lou.
DOBBS: The weapons of mass destruction, Jamie, a number of reports on everything from highly radioactive nuclear material that has been found in one instance to underground laboratories, to trucks -- mobile -- what is feared to be mobile chemical/biological warfare trucks and laboratories. What more can you tell us about those discoveries?
MCINTYRE: Well, a lot of them look very suspicious, particularly that nuclear site you were talking about where they received very high Geiger counter readings. But the Pentagon is not willing to say, in any of those cases, that it has enough evidence to declare that they found a smoking gun or actual evidence of weapons of mass destruction. In fact, there is some theory that maybe residual radiation from a previous nuclear facility or even natural occurring radiation from this one site that may have set things off.
And at this point, the Pentagon has a lot of incentive to make public clear evidence that they found weapons of mass destruction, and they're not ready to do that yet.
DOBBS: They also have a very good incentive to be absolutely correct when they do make a statement. Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
Former nuclear weapons inspector David Albright says he is very concerned about those radioactive materials. He said those Iraqi materials could have been looted and may eventually be sold to terrorists who would want to make a dirty bomb.
David Albright joins us now from our studios in Washington, D.C. David, we've just heard Jamie McIntyre say that the Pentagon is being very careful, appropriately so. This site, al-Tuwaitha, is a former nuclear site. What do you make of this discovery of -- it's about 2,500 barrels of something containing radioactivity.
DAVID ALBRIGHT, INSTITUTE FOR SCIENCE AND INTERNATIONAL SECURITY: Yes, it was -- the location that's being described was actually created by the inspectors in 1991 to hold all the uranium that was being turned over by the Iraqis as they disassembled their nuclear weapons program.
It also turned into a site where Iraq stored about 150 radioactive sources. And so when -- what happened is that the Iraqi guards left. And before the troops -- U.S. troops -- arrived, there was a few days where there is concern that maybe something was taken. I mean, we're seeing looting all over Iraq.
And so according to one of the embedded journalists, there was evidence that Iraqis had been into that site. And so, you have to ask the question, was anything taken.
And you first worry about the radioactive sources, because they actually can cause serious harm. Some of them are quite strong and give off a lot of radiation. It is also...
DOBBS: We should point out that some of the seals on those drums were, in fact, broken. We don't know if any drums were taken.
ALBRIGHT: That's right.
DOBBS: But we do know that some of the seals were broken.
ALBRIGHT: Yes. And it's -- protection has been re-established at this site. It was done pretty quickly, and we can have confidence that no one can take anything now. And -- but, again, this was not a -- this site was really seen more as a -- where it's -- or troops would go and find nuclear material. I mean, it was known to be there. Some places in the site are radioactive. And so, nothing surprising has actually been found there, despite the reports in some of the media.
DOBBS: Are you surprised that there were -- that we have reports that there were underground laboratories at that site and that they had been sealed off?
ALBRIGHT: Well, the embedded journalists actually called me a couple of days ago from al-Tuwaitha, and one of the things I asked them was did you have a hard time finding these underground sites, and he said no.
And I then later asked officials at the International Atomic Energy Agency, and they said, yes, we have been gone into underground sites in al-Tuwaitha. Some of them they roped into because they date from the time of the 1970s when the French built a reactor complex there, and that reactor complex was actually bombed by the Israelis in 1981. And so, access to that part of the underground facility was not easy, but it appears that he didn't have trouble getting into any of these underground sites.
So, I think the conclusion that I reach is that probably the inspectors had already been there. And that is essentially what the IAEA is saying today.
DOBBS: Let's turn to the chemicals that are to be tested, or are being tested now, that have found at that agricultural site described as testing positive -- at least the last time. Three sets of tests. The first was positive. The second negative. The third positive in the field. The agents described as nerve agents and blistering agents have been sent away for a final test. What is your thinking there?
ALBRIGHT: Well, we just have to wait and see. I mean, it's, you know, this site, I mean -- CNN showed -- did a very good story on this and showed the barrels in essentially a trench with a kind of a crude roof and a tarp over the entrance. So, I think that it doesn't look like a chemical weapons storage site, but perhaps Iraq was trying to hide some chemical weapons there. And we'll just have to wait and see.
It does point out the larger problem that we're facing, which is it's a large country, and a lot of work needs to be done to control all these nuclear, chemical, biological assets. And it's important to do it because you do worry that somebody may take off with something and try to sell it.
We also need to make sure we try to control the scientists in some ways before too many flee, because the knowledge in their head could come back to haunt us.
DOBBS: The knowledge in their heads, as you put it, also could be very helpful in finding those weapons of mass destruction...
ALBRIGHT: That's right.
DOBBS: ... should they exist.
ALBRIGHT: Yes, and I think we're going to see a lot of incentives given to those scientists to cooperate. And you're also going to see some threats. I mean, I've heard state department officials say, well, we may create a Guantanamo Bay for those who don't cooperate.
So, there is going to be a lot of focus on trying to find the scientists. And there are many thousands of them. I mean, just in the nuclear site, it's well over 1,000 people that were involved in the pre-1991 nuclear weapons program or had substantial knowledge of that program. So it's -- there's going to be a lot of people to try to reach.
But it also gives us hope that you don't have -- if you can start finding some, then you can find others. And we can get to the bottom of this as quickly as possible.
DOBBS: David Albright, we thank you for being with us.
ALBRIGHT: OK, thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next. As young Americans make the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq, we will look at the care and the benefits their families receive at home. Peter Viles will have that special report.
Then Senator John Warner will be my guest to talk about why NATO should have a role in securing post-war Iraq.
And the fight for the northern front, why it's causing particular concern in the Arab world. Kitty Pilgrim will report on a high-level meeting taking place this weekend.
That and more still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Twenty-two wounded U.S. soldiers today arrived at Ramstein Air Base in Germany today at Ramstein. A total of 173 U.S. soldiers wounded in Iraq have now been taken to a U.S. hospital in Germany for medical treatment.
And a memorial service continues tonight in for the Fort Bliss in Texas. Fort Bliss is home of the 507th Maintenance Company. Nine members of the 507th killed in action in Iraq. Five others were captured when their convoy was ambushed last month in An Nasiriyah.
Another member of the 507th returns home tomorrow. Private First Class Jessica Lynch was captured in that ambush on March 23. Private Lynch was freed a week later in a dramatic rescue. Private Lynch will receive further treatment at Walter Reed hospital in Washington.
One-hundred-thirty-eight coalition service members have died since Operation Iraqi Freedom began. The Pentagon reports that 107 Americans and 31 Britons have been killed in action. Ten U.S. troops are missing in action, seven taken prisoner. There is no official count of Iraqi soldiers who have been killed in the fighting. The Pentagon says more than 7300 Iraqis are prisoners of war.
President Bush today met with soldiers wounded in the war in Iraq. Accompanied by Mrs. Bush, the president stood at the bedsides of dozens of soldiers now being treated in Washington. He awarded Purple Hearts to several of the injured and watched as two men became U.S. citizens. President Bush then praised those soldiers for their sacrifices in bringing freedom to the Iraqi people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think I'll ever forget -- I'm sure a lot of other people will never forget the statue of Saddam Hussein falling in Baghdad and then seeing the jubilation on the faces of ordinary Iraqis as they realized that the grip of fear that had them by the throat had been released. (END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Each casualty of this war is, of course, a story in and of itself. One of those stories plays out near a large Marine base in North Carolina. Brian Cabell reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In a home outside Camp Lejeune, the home of a marine who died fighting in Iraq his widow, only 32, reads one of the last letters he sent to their two- year-old daughter.
CHELLE POKORNEY, WIDOW: Are you taking good care of mommy? How is she doing? I know you are doing your best to help her with everything. Please give her a big hug and kiss for me and tell her that I love her, okay? I love you very, very much and miss you so much my heart hurts, and I hope I get home to you and Mommy soon. And don't forget me. Love always, daddy.
And he wrote it back on the back of his favorite MREs because they love peaches.
CABELL: "Daddy" was First Lieutenant Fred Pokorney killed almost three weeks ago in an ambush in Nasiriyah. And now his wife, Chelle, has photographs, letters, memories, and the secure knowledge in her mind that his cause, the cause to free the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein, has almost triumphed.
POKORNEY: I hope they can have what they -- hopefully, a democracy or whatever they are reaching for, freedom from any turmoil and the pain and the suffering they were going through.
I'm pleased to see when they take them food and water and medicine, because that's what we should do. We should reach out to each other always. It doesn't matter who we are or what. I would hope that they could find good things out of this.
CABELL: That's a little difficult for Chelle at this point, a picture perfect life with a tall, handsome, loving husband, who was also a doting father, has been turned upside down.
POKORNEY: I hope to be able to provide for my little girl and give her the life that her daddy would have given her, because it's going to be a struggle now because our American dream that we had is now no longer. It's one person short.
CABELL: Fred Pokorney will be buried Monday at Arlington National Cemetery. Brian Cabell, CNN, Camp Lejeune, North Carolina.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The loss of some of this country's best young people is the steepest cost of this war. We now take a look at the care, the benefits that this very rich nation extends to the families of those who have made the highest sacrifice. Peter Viles reports. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): They are volunteers in a wealthy country. They are underpaid, very often underappreciated. And when they die, their death benefits are underwhelming.
You may have heard standard military death benefit is $250,000. That is misleading. That is life insurance, and the young servicemen and women struggling to make ends meet pay $240 a year in premiums for that insurance.
Marine Lieutenant David Kilbourn works with grieving families.
LIEUTENANT COLONEL DAVID KILBOURN, U.S. MARINE CORPS: You can't ever put a price on someone making the sacrifice for their country. I will say that most families, in my experience, have -- I haven't seen the focus on any monetary benefits. I've seen a gratefulness for service.
VILES: Spouses receive compensation of $948 a month and $237 per child. They also get up to 55 percent of retirement pay, but only after those initial compensation amounts are subtracted. The government provides up to $6,900 in burial costs and $6,000 in cash to meet immediate expenses. That $6,000 has not been adjusted in 12 years. Over that time, Social Security payments have gone up 32 percent. A Senate bill would double the immediate payment to $12,000.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA), ARMED SERVICES CHAIRMAN: You can't put a death benefit high enough to pay a military family that's lost their loved one. Nor, do I think they want to see a massive fund of some type that would pay off $800,000 or $900,000 or $1 million in event of death.
VILES: The wounded -- and there are nearly 400 now -- are taken care of at military hospitals including the two the President visited today, Walter Reed Army Medical and Bethesda Naval Hospital.
Peter Viles, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Senator John Warner is the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he joins us tonight from Capitol Hill. Senator Warner, good to have you with us.
SEN. JOHN WARNER (R-VA), CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Thank you.
DOBBS: I would like to turn first to the benefits for our young men and women in uniform. Do you think it is adequate?
WARNER: There is no figure that you could call adequate. Every day, we have briefings here. And I want you to know, and those watching, that the Congress very much grieves the loss of our men and women and those that are wounded and those that -- whose POW status is not in any way certain or cared for by the International Red Cross.
But as I stand here at this very moment, in another room not distant from here, we're working out a final agreement on increasing the benefits flowing from the very thing that you've just discussed. If there are deaths, if there's a widow, if there are children. So, all of those figures, hopefully, tonight will be increased in a piece of legislation that will be voted on in the next 24 hours.
DOBBS: And general benefits, those benefits that accrue to service members, even in times in which there are not deaths and wounds, but just in the course of normal service, do you believe, Senator, we're doing enough for those service members?
WARNER: To be honest with you, Lou, I've had periods of active duty myself, both as a sailor and a Marine. I feel very close to the men and women of the Armed Forces for many, many years and humbly accept the honor of being with them. But there's no figure that's enough, but we are trying to increase, and will increase, within 24 hours some of those benefits. But I don't want to get out ahead and announce the figures that I hope we'll achieve.
DOBBS: Well, Senator, I think at this point I would guess that just every American hopes you succeed to the highest level possible.
Senator, let's turn to the issue of Iraq. Do you think, at this point, that you have a clear sense as to who will be administering Iraq on an interim basis until an Iraqi government can be put in place, a representative government form there? Will it be the United States and the coalition? Will it be the United Nations? NATO? What would be your best judgment?
WARNER: Yesterday I conducted a hearing of the Armed Services Committee when that was the subject. We had Deputy Secretary of Defense Wolfowitz and the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Pace. We in the committee urged them to get on with this process. The president very carefully laid down the goal upon liberation to try as soon as possible to get a group of Iraqis together, reconcile such differences between those that have been outside of the country and those who bravely remain inside, such that we can get on with the operation of turning over the operation of the government to a freely elected Iraqi group. The interim government, hopefully, will be the form of Iraqis once again working with General Franks, General Garner and others.
Additionally, we're very receptive in this country to taking in others as working partners. The United Nations, NGOs -- that's groups that are non-governmental that are coming in to help in the aid programs. It's an open invitation to help. But I want to stress that it's very important while this nation is still insecure in terms of personal safety -- be it our fighting men and women or, indeed, the civilians -- that there be a firm control exercised by General Franks heading the coalition of nations bringing about the liberation.
DOBBS: Senator John Warner, always good to talk with you. Thank you very much. Coming up next here, advances in northern Iraq are raising some concerns in both Turkey and Syria. Officials of both countries meet this weekend. Kitty Pilgrim will report.
Coalition forces have driven Saddam Hussein's government from power, but it's in its wake a need to create a new government and structure. Brent Sadler will report.
We'll also meet a doctor on the front lines of what is a widening war against the SARS virus. Dr. Donald Low will be my guest next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The fall of Mosul and Kirkuk, partly at the hands of Kurdish forces, has further concerned the governments of Turkey and Syria. Officials of both countries will meet in Damascus this weekend to discuss their strategy for dealing with the Kurds. Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Kirkuk and Mosul have been taken by Kurdish forces backed by U.S. Special Ops forces. But today, more U.S. troops are rushing into the area because Turkey is nervous the Kurds will make a land grab. Turkey had threatened to invade northern Iraq if Kirkuk and Mosul were taken over by the Kurds to form an independent state. Some 40,000 Turkish troops are massed on the border with Iraq. They haven't moved yet, and the White House is assuring turkey the Kurds will withdraw.
AIR FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Turkey has maintained its military presence on the Turkish side of the border, and the United States is moving forward to establish control in those cities in northern Iraq, just as we pledged. It's been an issue to be managed.
PILGRIM: Turkey is taking no chances, sending in observers. Up to 30 million Kurds live in a 230,000 square mile area spreading over Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq. The area holds Iraq's second largest oil fields, ample resources to fund an independent Kurdish state.
BULENT ALIRIZA, SENIOR ASSOCIATION DIRECTOR, TURKEY PROJECT, CSIS: Clearly, the U.S. and Turkey are going to be friends, but how close the alliance is going to be is going to be determined by what happens in the coming weeks and months.
PILGRIM: Meanwhile, Syria is also worrying about the Kurds planning a high-level meeting with Turkey this weekend. Syria has been spewing anti-U.S. rhetoric, demanding an end to the U.S. "occupation of Iraq". Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld has flat out accused Syria of harboring Iraqis fleeing the war and also supplying military equipment to Iraq. U.S. officials have warned Syria to stop allowing Islamic fighters to cross into Iraq.
The fact that Turkey and Syria plan a high-level meeting in Damascus this weekend is disturbing. Turkey, after all, is supposed to be a U.S. ally. Syria, one of the countries, according to the U.S. government, that sponsors terrorism.
Kitty Pilgrim, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And this afternoon, in a response to a request by the United States, Syria closed its border with Iraq.
Coming up next, coalition and Kurdish forces have taken a key city in northern Iraq. We will talk with CNN military analyst David Grange about what is next in the campaign.
Coalition troops are securing oil fields in northern Iraq. Brent Sadler will have that report for us.
And we will have the latest for you on the worldwide outbreak of the SARS virus. We'll be talking with leading Canadian doctor fighting this outbreak, who himself was quarantined after contracting the disease. That story, that discussion, much more ahead here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
DOBBS: The White House has just released a photograph of President Bush meeting with wounded soldiers at Walter Reed Hospital in Washington, D.C. The president here shaking hands with Army Private Thomas Douglas of Fayetteville, North Carolina, after presenting him with a Purple Heart, as we said, at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. Also pictured is Douglas's wife, Donna Douglas.
Coalition forces are tonight in control of Iraq's northern oil fields. It follows the total collapse of Iraqi resistance in the north.
Brent Sadler reports from Kirkuk, the region's oil capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): American troops guard a production facility in the Kirkuk oil fields of northern Iraq. But while U.S. soldiers protect Iraq's oil well, much of the country is on a looting spree, and there aren't enough soldiers to stop it.
Like in many parts of Iraq, swarms of looters strip the old regime bare, offices ransacked, furniture piled high, with no sign of remorse.
There is no longer a leadership to herd people like cattle to do things they would rather not do, like these defeated Iraqi soldiers, no longer afraid of possible execution if they deserted their posts. They surrendered their weapons and most of their uniforms to Iraqi Kurds before being sent home, the seemingly harmless and, in many cases, bootless remnants of a northern army.
Nothing here is now the same as it was, especially for people like Saba Tahir (ph), a utility manager, attempting to get his team of engineers past the Americans to restore power in Kirkuk. They are accustomed to taking orders from the old Ba'ath Party, but now they must deal with a U.S. soldier. But Saba is politely turned away for security reasons.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because there is no enough forces here in the region. They say that tomorrow, maybe, there will be enough forces here, and they will allow us to go.
SADLER: He can speak freely to me for the first time in his long career, but his evasive answers speak volumes about a fear that's left behind.
(on camera): Is there anything you would like to say about life under Saddam Hussein?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please. OK now.
SADLER: You're still afraid
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK now.
SADLER: Why are you still afraid? Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK now.
SADLER: Why are you still afraid?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK now, please.
SADLER: Why are you still afraid?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. We don't know what happens now. We don't know.
SADLER: You're still afraid of Saddam Hussein?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody afraid from Saddam. Please. Thank you very much.
SADLER: Thank you, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
SADLER (voice-over): And Saddam Hussein is still at large.
(on camera): Securing the oil fields is a top priority for the U.S. military, but so too is restoring law and order in Iraq, where many sectors of society have plunged into preliminary chaos.
Brent Sadler, CNN, near Kirkuk, in northern Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE) DOBBS: We want to turn as quickly as possible to our military analyst, General David Grange.
But first, I would like to go back to the picture of the young man, the president of the United States awarding a Purple Heart to Specialist First Class Thomas Douglas, there with him his wife, Donna. I inadvertently and incorrectly stated his rank. He is specialist first class, and wanted to straighten that out as quickly as possible.
Let's turn now to General David Grange.
General, it looks as though some troops are moving in, consolidating Iraqis in Tikrit. Is there any hope here, in your best judgment, that we will have a similar situation as in Mosul, Kirkuk, in which we won't have to see our troops engaged in a big fight?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Lou, I think there is a chance that that may happen. There are some hard-liners, obviously, in Tikrit. But there is a good chance those on the perimeter, those that are supporting that, may not want to be in that fight.
And so I think as time, a little bit of patience, I think the coalition commanders are looking at that, deciding whether they need a heavy force to take this down, or could they do it with a smaller force with some surgical strikes just against some hard cells? The problem is, where are they, what's the disposition?
DOBBS: Our viewers, without question, have noticed that we have very few pictures coming to you from Tikrit, because that is not where our cameras are. Our cameras are now, for the most part, in Baghdad, along with our correspondents, who have been fortunate enough to be with the various U.S. forces, both Marines and Army.
That limits, obviously, our coverage of Tikrit. General, is there anything specifically about Tikrit? We know it's being bombed heavily tonight. Do we know any more about troop movements and preparations for engagement there?
GRANGE: I believe that, of course, there's more known than is being put out right now, because it's a future operation. The intelligence, for sure, is being gathered by all means, that the information that will decide what kind of attack would take place, who was on the take that may initiate a surrender of a portion of those forces. But they're building that plan, I think, as the situation develops.
DOBBS: As I mentioned, all of those reporters who are now gathering in Baghdad, who have been embedded with various units of the Marines and the U.S. Army, are now in Baghdad. They're focusing on what they're seeing in front of them. And that is civil unrest, looting in many cases. Is the military -- the U.S. military going to take up, in your best estimate, the role of policemen?
GRANGE: Lou, they'll take up that role by default for a short period of time. Very similar to other operations, whether it be combat or peacekeeping missions elsewhere in the world. What happens is that the time it takes to get a -- some type of civilian authority in place that has international police or, let's say, police made up of an Arab League with Iraqis embedded in them, other -- a civil authority for law -- just law and order requirements that we're used to every day.
It's not there. And so they'll try to get as many of the Iraqis that they can use, but the military will have to do some of that until that's established, so there's a window there that the military, by default, must accomplish that mission.
DOBBS: General David Grange, thank you very much.
GRANGE: My pleasure, Lou.
DOBBS: Coming up next, the SARS virus continues to spread throughout the world. Health agencies all around the world are concerned tonight. We'll talk with a doctor who is battling SARS virus both professionally and personally.
And press accounts of the war may have left you somewhat confused as to which side some reporters and publications are on from time to time. Well, you're not alone. Our Jan Hopkins looked into it, and she'll have a special report for us.
And Iraq's ambassador prepares to bid farewell to the United States. We'll have the story of his departure, not exactly a matter of tears. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We've just received word from our national security correspondent, David Ensor, in Washington that U.S. intelligence agencies have intercepted what is described variously as chatter, that is, communications, amongst Iraqi officials that leads them to believe that Saddam Hussein is, in fact, dead. That chatter focusing on that amongst those officials.
The intelligence agencies, David Ensor reports, offers three possibilities here, that is, that these officials chat -- saying that Saddam Hussein is dead, they are correct, that they are mistaken, or third, that it is all a ploy to make coalition forces believe that Saddam Hussein is dead for some reason of their own. But at this point, again, U.S. intelligence agencies have intercepted communications among Iraqi officials saying that Saddam Hussein is dead.
Let's turn now to the SARS virus, which is spreading around the world. The death toll now from the virus, the SARS virus, severe acute respiratory syndrome, stands at 116 worldwide. Nearly 2,900 people have been sickened by this virus. And as of tonight, there is no treatment for the SARS virus.
There's every indication that this mystery illness will be with us as well for some time to come.
Dr. Donald Low is a microbiologist who has been trying to find a treatment for SARS. Dr. Low has also been dealing with SARS patients in Toronto. And he just came out of quarantine this week after contracting the disease as well.
Dr. Low, welcome to the broadcast.
DR. DONALD LOW, TORONTO DIFFICULT LABORATORIES: Thank you.
DOBBS: How are you feeling, first of all, doctor?
LOW: No, I'm fine. I was exposed to the virus, but fortunately didn't come down with it. A colleague did, however, and it just reminds us just how serious and how contagious this is.
DOBBS: The number of doctors, nurses, health care officials who have come down with this disease, there have been quite a few. I hope your colleague is well.
LOW: He's getting better, but it's a slow process.
DOBBS: And how long does it take to recover from this, in a general sense?
LOW: Well, you know, this virus is not following any rules of infectious disease. It's really quite perplexing. We see patients that come into a hospital who have a fever, feel unwell, normal chest X-ray, no signs of pneumonia. Then four, five, six days later will develop pneumonia with X-ray evidence of this, which goes on to progress. And it doesn't appear that treatment is making much of a difference as far as the outcome is concerned.
DOBBS: And the mortality rate, is it, in your experience there in Toronto -- is one place where there have been mortalities. There have been none in the United States so far. Is it around 4 percent?
LOW: Yes. Our numbers are similar to what's been found in Hong Kong, about 4 percent. And you -- typically, in the older patient, patient with underlying disease. But -- so this is a -- that's a significant mortality rate when you think about influenza, something that we're always concerned about. Its mortality rate much less than 1 percent.
DOBBS: And you mentioned influenza. Estimated half a million people around the world die of influenza every year. And that is, of course, with a virus that is spread already throughout the world. Do you believe that this SARS virus has the potential, the likely potential, to be ubiquitous around the planet?
LOW: Well, I sure think it has potential from what I've seen in the last four weeks in Toronto. Four weeks ago, or four weeks and a day ago, we hadn't even heard about this until the WHO announced the -- a threat, a concern about a new, emerging atypical pneumonia.
Now we've seen over 200 cases, all related to one outbreak that occurred in the hospital prior to that warning. And so the concern, of course, is that this will eventually go into the community. I think we'll contain it in Toronto. But what's going to happen in China? What's going to happen in Hong Kong?
DOBBS: The Chinese, Dr. Low, have not been forthcoming in sharing the information about what this -- I was about to say epidemic, but this virus that is spreading quickly...
LOW: Well, it is an epidemic.
DOBBS: ... do you believe it is significantly worse in China than we've been led to believe?
LOW: Oh, for sure. I mean, we still don't know exactly what's going on in China. And, of course, now that we have such a large number of people infected in China and in Hong Kong, those people, by chance, are going to be going to other parts of the world, incubating this virus, coming down with the disease in other countries such as South America, Africa, India.
So, I mean, we've just -- I don't think we're going to be very successful in containing this. And I think that what we have to do now is try to protect ourselves for as long as possible until we at least have a vaccine or some better form of therapy or diagnostic testing.
DOBBS: We have just -- we've learned that the Philippines and Indonesia have just reported their first possible SARS cases. Is there anything that can be done, in your judgment, Dr. Low, to stop the global spread of this disease?
LOW: Well, I'm afraid that's, you know -- it's going to be awfully difficult, because, I mean, the amount of resources that the government of Ontario has put to controlling this, I don't know if other countries with less resources or less expertise and infrastructure will be able to do it.
And therefore, it's just a matter for this virus from leaving the hospital setting, where we typically find it now, going out into the community and becoming a problem. And it's not only the mortality rate that's of disconcern. It's when people get sick with this thing, they're sick for two or three weeks, and often sick in hospitals. So this is -- it's a major public health concern.
DOBBS: Your best counsel to our viewers as to how to, as best they can, to protect themselves against the virus to prevent SARS?
LOW: Well, I think in North America, we're still fortunate that this is a hospital-based disease. The community is fine. Toronto is fine. You can come and visit Toronto. There is no threat to be here. There is no threat in the community yet.
And we have to use all of our expertise and resources in controlling it, at least controlling it long enough that we can come up with a vaccine and better treatment options than we have now.
DOBBS: How soon do you believe that we might see a vaccine?
LOW: It's going to be very difficult, because it's thought that this is due to a coronavirus that came from an animal. The coronavirus is known for its ability to adapt and to change. And that's why the human coronaviruses that cause the common cold -- why we haven't been able to develop a vaccine, because this virus is so adaptable, can change so readily that it's been able to avoid the successful introduction of a vaccine to control it.
So I -- it's the route we have to go, but I think it's going to be a long time before we come up with a successful vaccine.
DOBBS: Dr. Donald Low, thank you very much for being with us.
LOW: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, the print media's take on this war has gone through a number of iterations and incarnations throughout the conflict. Jan Hopkins will report on the media.
Also, the man known as Baghdad Bob and Minister Magoo now has a Web site dedicated to him. Jeanne Moos will report on the rising popularity of a fellow we don't see much anymore.
And the U.S. Army has unearthed some unfinished business from the last Gulf War.
Those stories and more still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
In just over three weeks of war, the national media has hardly been consistent in its tone of coverage. Headlines have evolved from dire predictions for the outcome of the war in Iraq to admiration for its swift success. A war plan that worked, that was once severely criticized, then to dire predictions for postwar Iraq.
Jan Hopkins has the story on the media.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAN HOPKINS, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS (voice-over): As the world was watching the fall of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad, "New York Times" readers were looking at columns "Hold Your Applause" and "The Winners Get Giddy."
Times Watch analyzes "The New York Times" and sees a pattern.
CLAY WATERS, TIMES WATCH: What we were concerned about, reading the newspaper, is they have -- the editorial page has been pretty much against the war all along. And that's fine, but we believe that their coverage, their reporting, it -- that kind of anti-war bias has seeped into the reporting as well.
HOPKINS: Now, the jubilation on the streets is making its way onto the front page at "The New York Times" and in papers around the country. Just a few weeks ago, it was a totally different story. Headlines questioned how bloody and what will it take to win, saying U.S. casualties expose risks, raise doubts about strategy. The Center for Media and Public Affairs saw three flip-flops in media coverage, which they called, victory will be swift, buyer's remorse, and renewed confidence.
Some journalism professors think the press mood swings stem from embarrassment.
MARK DANNER, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY: The story line of success has certainly been influenced by the perception of many in the press that they were unduly critical in the first days of the war.
HOPKINS (on camera): Despite the fickle nature of the press coverage of the war, American support has held steady at about 70 percent, until the last few days, when that support soared to 76 percent.
Jan Hopkins, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: One of the most prominent symbols of anti-Americanism in Saddam Hussein's Iraq is no more. U.S. soldiers today destroyed a tile mosaic of former president George H.W. Bush in the lobby floor of the Al Rashid Hotel in Baghdad.
Saddam Hussein had ordered the mosaic installed after the Gulf War to serve as a doormat for foreign visitors to the Al Rashid. Just last November, chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix and IA -- International Atomic Energy Agency head Mohamed ElBaradei walked over the tile. You've got to love those two guys.
U.S. soldiers who dug out the mosaic smoothed over their handiwork. In its place, a portrait of Saddam Hussein.
Iraq's ambassador to the United Nations is going to leave New York for Paris and then Damascus. Mohammed Aldouri left his office at the United Nations today perhaps for the last time. He plans to travel, as early as tonight, to Paris, and then on to Syria. In a tearful interview, Aldouri told Arab television network Al Arabia that he can no longer work in the country that invaded Iraq. He lamented the fall of Saddam Hussein.
Another representative of Saddam Hussein's regime has become almost a pop culture phenomenon. Iraq's information minister, otherwise known as Baghdad Bob or Minister Magoo, has won fans around the world with his bold predictions for the defeat of coalition forces in Iraq as they were just a few blocks away from the ministry in which he worked.
A new Web site devoted to him has become so popular, its creators have taken it offline temporarily.
Jeanne Moos has more on the Iraqi icon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Liar, liar, his regime is on fire.
MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF, IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER: We besieged them and we killed most of them.
MOOS: After telling whopper...
AL-SAHAF: They are trapped everywhere in the country.
MOOS: ... after whopper...
AL-SAHAF: And I think we will finish them soon.
MOOS: ... it's Iraq's information minister who is finished. But his place in pop culture grows.
CONN NUGENT, WEB SITE CO-CREATOR: The funniest comedian since Buddy Hackett.
MOOS: He has been the butt of countless cartoons, even Arabic cartoons. He's made David Letterman's top 10 list.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN," CBS)
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST: The number one thing the Iraqis' information minister has to say about the war, "War? What war?"
There you go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MOOS: On the "Tonight" show, he's been parodied as a contestant playing International Jeopardy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The answer is, can you hear me now? Mohammed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes. What is Saddam saying to the people who are digging him out from the rubble?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MOOS: He even has a Web site devoted to him.
NUGENT: WelovetheIraqiinformationminister.com.
MOOS (on camera): And do you?
NUGENT: Yes, in a weird, warped kind of way.
MOOS (voice-over): They refer to him as M.S.S., Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf. The six creators of the Web site describe themselves as bloodthirsty hawks and ineffectual doves smitten by the minister's twisted quotes.
AL-SAHAF: My feelings, as usual, we will slaughter them all.
MOOS: That classic ended up on one of several shirts for sale. They've sold hundreds of these. There's a whole Web site started as a joke. Another site, based in Britain, sells a similar T-shirt, different quote.
Sahaf was no laughing matter to Iraqis. He was the public face of a brutal, repressive regime. Now the minister's history is being spoofed. He's depicted giving misinformation at the battles of Gettysburg, Waterloo, the Alamo, Little Big Horn, and even Normandy.
NUGENT: "Americans? What Americans? There are no American infidels in France."
MOOS: The words of the Butcher of Baghdad's mouthpiece now adorn a barbecue apron, "God will roast their stomachs in hell."
This is one spokesman who never learned not to talk with his mouth full of falsehoods.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: When we come back, we'll take a look at some of your thoughts, including a plan for France and Iraq, a joint construction project that may capture the imagination of the coalition. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Taking a look at your thoughts, Mark Macomber, a 767 jetliner pilot, wrote in to say, "You're a first-class guy, which is exactly where I'd put you if you fly with me." I appreciate it, Mark.
Finally, Cecily Lamattina of New York writes to say, "Lou, while the deliberation of France's demand for a central role in the upcoming reconstruction of Iraq, we might all do well to remember that they do make a fine statue, and Iraq is definitely in need of some replacements."
E-mail us at moneyline@cnn.com.
Paula Zahn, Wolf Blitzer coming right up. They'll be followed by Larry King.
Fredricka Whitfield with the latest developments from CNN Center.
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