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American Morning

Analysis With Con Coughlin, Author, "Saddam: King of Terror"

Aired April 15, 2003 - 08:35   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: After nearly a month of war there is still no answer to the question, where is Saddam Hussein? It has been just over a week since an air strike on a Baghdad neighborhood targeted the Iraqi leader and his two sons, leaving an enormous crater in place and a lot of investigation to come.
Joining me to talk about the fate of Saddam and others from his regime, Con Coughlin, author of "Saddam: King of Terror" and executive editor of the "London Sunday Telegraph."

Nice to meet you in person. I think this is the first time we've met because we've interviewed you by remote from London all the time.

First off, what are your sources telling you about Saddam Hussein?

CON COUGHLIN, AUTHOR, "SADDAM: KING OF TERROR": That he survived that last attack on the restaurant. That he was there when it was targeted but by the time the bombs dropped, Saddam had made his excuse and left, which raises the possibility, was Saddam playing games, was he trying to find out what our intelligence sources are? Did he set the whole thing up? I mean, that's -- that's now something that's being actively looked at.

And -- you know, we know from the past how Saddam operates about and it's inconceivable that he would sacrifice 50 of his senior Baathists just to find out who the traitor is in his midst.

ZAHN: Because what we do know is that it was a combination of human intelligence and other intelligence that led to this attack on the Monsour neighborhood.

COUGHLIN: That's right.

We had satellite intelligence that that area was a command and control center. That -- that -- that's the first thing we knew. Then we had human intelligence that Saddam and some of his top aides were going in there. And 45 minutes later we bombed it.

But it is now believed that Saddam left before the bombs struck.

ZAHN: And where do your sources think he went?

COUGHLIN: Well, actually, they think he might still be in the Baghdad area. I mean, that's -- I mean, it's hard to believe, but Baghdad is a big place. He's got lots of hideouts. That's where he's always hidden out in the past. He's not -- he's nowhere to be found in Tikrit. But members of his family are making their way out of the country.

ZAHN: Let's talk about what you also think is the case. Of course, no one can confirm any of this.

COUGHLIN: No.

ZAHN: But you believe, based on what sources are telling you in your newspaper, that Saddam Hussein's estranged wife and his daughter made it to Syria?

COUGHLIN: They made it to Syria and they've gone on from Syria. They're not in Syria anymore. They've got visa and they've moved on.

ZAHN: Now what evidence is there to support the theory?

COUGHLIN: Well, this is just -- this is just what the intelligence sources are picking up, the same kind of intelligence that says Saddam is still alive.

I think Sajita (ph), the first wife left probably before the war actually. I mean, she -- she's been estranged. I mean, she was under house arrest with two daughters for some years.

ZAHN: For what?

COUGHLIN: Well, this all goes back to that lovely incident in 1996 when Saddam murdered his two sons-in-law because they had gone to Jordan, then they come back, he had them killed. It was a big family power struggle.

The mother, of course, sided with her daughters who were outraged that their father should kill their husbands. So this is the kind of family you have to deal with. And the mother and the daughters left.

There is -- there's the second wife, the person I call the Eva Braun of the Saddam family. And I think if we're looking for Saddam, a good idea to pay attention to where his second wife, Sumira (ph), is and she has a 16-year-old child, Ali, by Saddam. And we don't know where these people are at the moment.

ZAHN: Now tell us about your understanding of what role France might have played in the processing of some of these visas.

COUGHLIN: Well, this is -- this is -- this is a fascinating development. And it's unconfirmed at the moment. But I'm told the French embassy in Damascus is doing a big business in visas and that people from the Baghdad regime, the Baathist regime, who have made their way successfully to Damascus, are going to the French embassy and getting visas and going to France. And this -- you know, if this stands up this is phenomenal development.

ZAHN: And while you say this can't be confirmed what leads you to believe this is the case? Once again, who are you hearing from? COUGHLIN: People are watching the -- what's going on at the French embassy in Damascus and a lot of -- a lot of Iraqis are suddenly starting up at the French embassy in Damascus applying for visas.

ZAHN: Of course, Syria denied that yesterday, as well as harboring any members of Saddam Hussein's leadership and as well as say they've continued any program of biological or chemical weapons program.

COUGHLIN: Well, precisely. I mean, the Syrians deny everything. But we know that the Syrians have smuggled oil for Saddam. They've smuggled arms for Saddam.

The other interesting development is that American forces have uncovered some French anti-aircraft missiles in Baghdad that were actually made in the year 2000. So they've -- they've gone into Baghdad during the U.N. sanctions program. And I think there's a lot more to come out about France's relationship with Saddam, and in particular, the French president's relationship with Saddam.

These two go way back to 1970s. They have a very close relationship. They've done a lot of deals, a lot of trade and it would be very interesting to see what the French are up to now.

ZAHN: Con Coughlin, the author "Saddam: King of Terror," also the executive editor of the "London Sunday Telegraph." Thanks for dropping by. Nice to see you in person for a change.

COUGHLIN: A pleasure, Paula. Thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





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Aired April 15, 2003 - 08:35   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: After nearly a month of war there is still no answer to the question, where is Saddam Hussein? It has been just over a week since an air strike on a Baghdad neighborhood targeted the Iraqi leader and his two sons, leaving an enormous crater in place and a lot of investigation to come.
Joining me to talk about the fate of Saddam and others from his regime, Con Coughlin, author of "Saddam: King of Terror" and executive editor of the "London Sunday Telegraph."

Nice to meet you in person. I think this is the first time we've met because we've interviewed you by remote from London all the time.

First off, what are your sources telling you about Saddam Hussein?

CON COUGHLIN, AUTHOR, "SADDAM: KING OF TERROR": That he survived that last attack on the restaurant. That he was there when it was targeted but by the time the bombs dropped, Saddam had made his excuse and left, which raises the possibility, was Saddam playing games, was he trying to find out what our intelligence sources are? Did he set the whole thing up? I mean, that's -- that's now something that's being actively looked at.

And -- you know, we know from the past how Saddam operates about and it's inconceivable that he would sacrifice 50 of his senior Baathists just to find out who the traitor is in his midst.

ZAHN: Because what we do know is that it was a combination of human intelligence and other intelligence that led to this attack on the Monsour neighborhood.

COUGHLIN: That's right.

We had satellite intelligence that that area was a command and control center. That -- that -- that's the first thing we knew. Then we had human intelligence that Saddam and some of his top aides were going in there. And 45 minutes later we bombed it.

But it is now believed that Saddam left before the bombs struck.

ZAHN: And where do your sources think he went?

COUGHLIN: Well, actually, they think he might still be in the Baghdad area. I mean, that's -- I mean, it's hard to believe, but Baghdad is a big place. He's got lots of hideouts. That's where he's always hidden out in the past. He's not -- he's nowhere to be found in Tikrit. But members of his family are making their way out of the country.

ZAHN: Let's talk about what you also think is the case. Of course, no one can confirm any of this.

COUGHLIN: No.

ZAHN: But you believe, based on what sources are telling you in your newspaper, that Saddam Hussein's estranged wife and his daughter made it to Syria?

COUGHLIN: They made it to Syria and they've gone on from Syria. They're not in Syria anymore. They've got visa and they've moved on.

ZAHN: Now what evidence is there to support the theory?

COUGHLIN: Well, this is just -- this is just what the intelligence sources are picking up, the same kind of intelligence that says Saddam is still alive.

I think Sajita (ph), the first wife left probably before the war actually. I mean, she -- she's been estranged. I mean, she was under house arrest with two daughters for some years.

ZAHN: For what?

COUGHLIN: Well, this all goes back to that lovely incident in 1996 when Saddam murdered his two sons-in-law because they had gone to Jordan, then they come back, he had them killed. It was a big family power struggle.

The mother, of course, sided with her daughters who were outraged that their father should kill their husbands. So this is the kind of family you have to deal with. And the mother and the daughters left.

There is -- there's the second wife, the person I call the Eva Braun of the Saddam family. And I think if we're looking for Saddam, a good idea to pay attention to where his second wife, Sumira (ph), is and she has a 16-year-old child, Ali, by Saddam. And we don't know where these people are at the moment.

ZAHN: Now tell us about your understanding of what role France might have played in the processing of some of these visas.

COUGHLIN: Well, this is -- this is -- this is a fascinating development. And it's unconfirmed at the moment. But I'm told the French embassy in Damascus is doing a big business in visas and that people from the Baghdad regime, the Baathist regime, who have made their way successfully to Damascus, are going to the French embassy and getting visas and going to France. And this -- you know, if this stands up this is phenomenal development.

ZAHN: And while you say this can't be confirmed what leads you to believe this is the case? Once again, who are you hearing from? COUGHLIN: People are watching the -- what's going on at the French embassy in Damascus and a lot of -- a lot of Iraqis are suddenly starting up at the French embassy in Damascus applying for visas.

ZAHN: Of course, Syria denied that yesterday, as well as harboring any members of Saddam Hussein's leadership and as well as say they've continued any program of biological or chemical weapons program.

COUGHLIN: Well, precisely. I mean, the Syrians deny everything. But we know that the Syrians have smuggled oil for Saddam. They've smuggled arms for Saddam.

The other interesting development is that American forces have uncovered some French anti-aircraft missiles in Baghdad that were actually made in the year 2000. So they've -- they've gone into Baghdad during the U.N. sanctions program. And I think there's a lot more to come out about France's relationship with Saddam, and in particular, the French president's relationship with Saddam.

These two go way back to 1970s. They have a very close relationship. They've done a lot of deals, a lot of trade and it would be very interesting to see what the French are up to now.

ZAHN: Con Coughlin, the author "Saddam: King of Terror," also the executive editor of the "London Sunday Telegraph." Thanks for dropping by. Nice to see you in person for a change.

COUGHLIN: A pleasure, Paula. Thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





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