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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
President Signs $80 Billion Wartime Spending Bill; SARS Spreading to Canada
Aired April 16, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: All right, Arthel. Thank you very much, and good evening, Everybody.
President Bush today outlined an ambitious set of goals, each with an implied promise. The President pledged to rebuild Iraq, to intensify the war against terrorism all around the world, and to put more Americans back to work in this country.
The President today was in St. Louis, shortly after he signed an $80 billion wartime spending bill. Senior White House Correspondent John King joins me live now. John?
JOHN KING, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, an upbeat assessment from the President, especially on the war front. Mr. Bush is at the ranch in Crawford, Texas, tonight for an extended Easter weekend.
But he did stop in St. Louis. The venue was a Boeing factory there, where they make F-18s, some of the sophisticated weaponry, of course, just used in the Iraqi conflict. Mr. Bush paying tribute not only to U. S. troops, but also to those who gave them that sophisticated weaponry, like the workers here at Boeing. Mr. Bush saying, in his view, the war effort going quite well.
He also gave an optimistic assessment of the early efforts to bring together Iraqis to form a new interim administration and then, eventually, an Iraqi government. Mr. Bush jokingly noting that in one meeting yesterday to bring the Iraqis together, there were protesters outside arguing that they, too, should have been invited. In the President's view, a sure sign that freedom is beginning to take hold in Iraq.
And in comments that might raise eyebrows among traditional U. S. allies in the region, countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and perhaps even Jordan, the President says he sees in the new future a democratic Iraq that is a symbol across the region.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We believe that people across the Middle East and across the world are weary of poverty, weary of oppression, and yearn to be free. (APPLAUSE). And all who know that hope, all who will work and sacrifice for freedom have a friend in the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: Now, this president mindful that his father won the first Persian Gulf War only to lose re-election because voters did not believe he was engaged on the economy. This President Bush promising the American people that he will fight for economic growth and jobs package. Many Democrats, of course, think Mr. Bush has exactly the wrong prescription.
But Congress, with help of Republican leaders, already has scaled back the Bush tax cut from the $726 billion Mr. Bush wanted to a maximum now of $550 billion. But Mr. Bush promised, in touching on the economy in his speech in St. Louis, that when he returns from the Easter weekend, he will immediately pressure the Congress to act quickly on a tax cut plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have sent to the Congress a jobs and growth package that will reduce the burden on our taxpayers, that will give you more of your money in your pocket so you get to decide how to save or invest and spend. In order for all Americans who are looking for work to find work, the Congress must pass this jobs package as soon as they come back from their recess.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The fight over taxes and the economy will be the defining domestic challenge of the next several weeks and months here in Washington and the first big test, Lou, of whether this president can take his wartime popularity and transfer it over to domestic issues like the economy. Right now, he is losing the support of even some key Republicans in the Congress when it comes to tax cuts.
Top aides promise when the President gets back to Washington next week, that will be his number one focus. Lou?
DOBBS: John, even as his number one focus, what we are watching here is, it seems apparent to me -- but perhaps it is not the case -- the beginning of a very significant compromise on that tax cut proposal.
KING: Well, the President yesterday scaled back to $550 billion. Aides had been saying he would try to fight somehow to restore the entire $726 billion. The President himself says $550 billion is the goal now.
Behind the scenes here at the White House, some believe that might be too optimistic when you have key Republicans like the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee saying $350 billion is the most you will get out of the senate. So, the President has compromised some. The question now is will he have to compromise more? If he does, if he moves the number from 550 back to 350, $350 billion, still a significant tax cut, of course, but he will then have to decide which of his proposals to jettison because you can't fit it all into a smaller price tag.
DOBBS: Al that's lost in this job from time to time is $350 billion, as you suggest, is still a significant amount of money.
KING: And the follow on to the first Bush tax cut.
DOBBS: John, thank you very much. John King, our senior White House correspondent.
Seven American soldiers who were held as prisoners of war by the Iraqis arrived at Ramstein Air Base in Germany tonight. They were found Sunday in northern Iraq, then first evacuated to Kuwait for treatment. And they're now one step closer to coming home.
Matthew Chance is at Ramstein Air Base in Germany and has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the seven U. S. prisoners of war have now arrived to the safety of Germany and Landstuhl U. S. Army medical facility, where they'll be receiving further medical treatment and checkups and possibly psychological counseling before they're given the final ok to head back to the United States.
It has been a very long and arduous journey for those seven prisoners of war captured in Iraq, as U. S. forces advanced across the country held for nearly two weeks, we're told, sometimes in isolation from their colleague, paraded on Iraqi television. Remember Shoshanna Johnson looking absolutely terrified as she was asked questions by Iraqi journalists, or Arabic speaking journalists on Iraqi television. Those are images few people will forget very quickly.
Before they were finally tracked down in a small town called Samara by U. S. Marines and rescued, for the past few days, they have been in Kuwait, where they've received further medical attention, and that process of debrief briefing was begun. That will continue here in Germany, again, until such time as they're allowed back, in a few days perhaps, to the U. S.
Matthew Chance, CNN, Ramstein Air Force Base, in Germany.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The Pentagon today estimated the war against Saddam Hussein has cost the United States so far $20 billion. Pentagon Controller Dov Zakheim says half of that money has paid for military operations, $3 billion has been spent on munitions alone. The remaining $7 billion has paid for personnel support. Zakheim said ongoing military operations in Iraq could cost $2 billion a month.
As the Pentagon begins to total the cost of this war, the focus of U. S. troops in Iraq is shifting. Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As combat operations wind down, U. S. troops in Iraq are under growing pressure to focus on two uncompleted objectives, providing security for humanitarian relief and finding weapons of mass destruction, the primary justification for the war. The U. S. remains convinced the weapons are there, but well hidden.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have every confidence we're going to find them. I mean, the -- but I don't think it's unusual that we haven't found them yet. I think it's going to take people telling us where they are to find...
MCINTYRE: The U. S. Military is beginning to transition into what it calls "Phase 4 Stabilization Operations". Under the plan, U. S. Marines will move out of Baghdad and be responsible for an area including roughly nine million Iraqis in the north. Two other zones will fall under the authority of the U. S. Army, one for the southern part of the country and one for five million people in and around Baghdad.
U. S. Commander General Tommy Franks made a low key visit to Baghdad Wednesday, consulting with his field generals but not mixing with the Iraqi people. Sources say Franks will likely soon establish a headquarters in the Iraqi capital.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At some point, I think, as he transitions to the next phase, he will probably recommend and stand up that kind of headquarters and put it right within Iraq.
MCINTYRE: The U. S. is just now beginning to total up the bill for the war, which so far exceeds $20 billion and is projected to grow by roughly $2 billion a month through the rest of the year. The Pentagon says that's in line with the low-end estimates of under $80 billion for a short war.
DOV ZAKHEIM, PENTAGON COMPTROLLER: At first blush, from where we're looking, it seems that, once again, our estimates played out pretty well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (on camera): Now, while General Franks' visit to Baghdad today was noticeably low key -- as I said, he didn't meet with any of the Iraqi people -- he did take some time out to savor the U. S. victory. He passed out cigars among his top commanders, and they lit them up in one of Saddam Hussein's palaces that is now serving as a U. S. Military headquarters.
Franks also inspected the palace with the ornate gold fixtures and, at one point, said that it was all part of what he called the "Oil for Palaces" program. Lou?
DOBBS: A program that has ended rather abruptly. Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
Coming up next, the SARS virus has now killed 13 people in Canada. It is the only country outside Asia where people have died of the illness. The fatality rate is higher in Canada than it is in Asia. We'll have a live report on the SARS virus that is spreading. That report from Toronto tonight.
We'll be talking to a microbiologist Donald Low, who himself was quarantined after being exposed to the SARS virus. We'll also have a report from Mike Boettcher on Dr. Germ. She's the Iraqi scientist who conducted some chilling experiments on biological warfare.
Jacques Chirac called President Bush yesterday trying to mend fences. Former defense secretary William Cohen will be here to assess the view of the President in a post-Saddam world and what role, if any, France and a few other countries, might have in the rebuilding of Iraq after all. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A major set back in north America's battle against the SARS virus. A disturbing new cluster of cases has surfaced in Toronto this week, leading to the quarantine of more than 500 people in one community. Avis Favaro has our report. Avis?
AVIS FAVARO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, hi, Lou. Well, the situation in Toronto has taken a number of ups and downs. We now have several thousand people in quarantine. The latest group is a group that belongs to a specific Catholic religious community. They apparently were infected while attending the funeral of a man who had picked up SARS and spread it to his son.
Now what health authorities here are waiting to find out is whether the cases have spread into the community. They say that it remains connected in many different ways to the hospital in which the first cases were seen. In other words, they have an epidemiological logical link in all of the cases. But what they're not sure is if someone who wasn't in quarantine -- or someone who left quarantine early -- perhaps has infected someone else. And that's the question, and that's why everyone here is holding their breath this weekend.
DOBBS: Avis, holding their breath. At this point, what is the mood there?
FAVARO: Well, everyone is actually going about their lives normally because, in most of the cases, they've been contained to spots where we know where the cases are. That is in hospitals and in certain settings like this funeral that they attended before people knew they had SARS.
But the question now is if it gets into the community, there's a much larger issue on the spread. Will we know who has SARS? Can you make any prediction on what -- you know, what community they may or may not be linked.
And that is why Toronto is taking this extraordinary precaution of asking anyone who's unwell to stay home this weekend and stay home until their symptoms, which could be a fever and a cough, subside. And possibly, they wouldn't be infectious.
DOBBS: Avis Favaro, thank you very much.
FAVARO: Thank you.
DOBBS: Joining us now, a leader in the field of infectious diseases. He is also at the forefront of research into the SARS virus. Dr. Donald Low is the head microbiology at Mt. Sinai Hospital in Toronto and joins us tonight from Toronto. Dr. Low, good to have you with us again.
DR. DONALD LOW, MT. SINAI HOSPITAL, TORONTO: Hi, Lou.
DOBBS: And with this change in circumstances, as Avis has reported, what's your reaction?
LOW: Well, it's a concern. I mean, we're into a different phase of the illness now. In the hospital setting, we really had our boundaries defined, but once we start dealing with patients in the community, as Avis said, it's very difficult to be sure that we've identified all people with the disease and, more importantly, all contacts with those people.
And so it's a new phase of the illness and requires us to really put focus all our resources into trying to control that.
DOBBS: The quarantining in this instance in Toronto, 500 people. You've been part of a quarantine yourself. The quarantine, as it moves into the community, becomes a far more difficult process, does it not?
LOW: It's not only difficult to identify people that have to go into quarantine, but to make sure they're actually doing it. And that's difficult. For myself, it was -- I have a larger home, and I have more access to things that I need, whereas, you can imagine, where somebody that's in a small apartment dwelling with one or two rooms and two other or three other family members, trying to isolate themselves from other family members is very difficult.
In fact, we know, when that doesn't happen, that the attack rate, the likelihood of other family members getting the disease, is 100 percent. So, quarantine is really critical here, and trying to make sure it's done properly is of utmost importance.
DOBBS: What you have just described, of course, is a situation that we now know has occurred in Hong Kong and suspect has occurred in parts of China. We've also now learned from the medical community in this country -- and, in fact, around the world -- that there's a very profound suspicion that the Chinese are still not being forthcoming upon the extent of the SARS virus in China itself. Is that not correct?
LOW: Yes. I think what we're learning is -- in fact, there's a lot more disease there than we suspected -- and the concern for that is the virus endemic, a part of China, that means always going to be a threat to come out on travelers going to other places in the world and to other countries, unsuspecting countries, where this might land up in another hospital in South America, go undetected until there was a large outbreak. Much more difficult to control in those circumstances.
DOBBS: And now that the virus has been identified, it has been broken down into its elemental parts and apparently we better understand it, how likely is it that we could see some sort of vaccine or treatment for the SARS virus in any way soon? And I'll, of course, let you define what is soon.
LOW: Yes, well, vaccine is tough -- that's going to be a tough one. We all know, in the medical community, how difficult it is to not only devise an effective vaccine, which is in itself a challenge, but to make sure that it's safe, its use is safe. And more importantly, with this virus, to make sure it actually has any life to it. That is, we might introduce a vaccine today, and two months from now, the virus might change its coat so it's no longer protected.
I think, probably more importantly, we might be able to understand more is why is this virus causing such nasty illness in our patients and such a high mortality rate. That might help us direct therapy more at the infection as opposed to using broad anti-viral agents that we're using now that don't appear to really have much effect.
DOBBS: In Canada, indeed around the world, the SARS virus seems to be spreading and just about growing at a rate of 21 percent, the number of cases, which is huge. And it justifies the term epidemic. But also in Canada, the fatality rate is much higher than in other cases around the world, now 12 percent. What do you make of that?
LOW: Well, I think it's because, unfortunately, the introduction of this virus into our community was before the WHO made an announcement on March 12th, and it was into a hospital setting where there's older patients. And we know that older patients not only have a more severe disease, but they have a higher mortality rate. It's clearly a risk factor for death. So, I think the fact that we've had it introduced into the hospital setting in a very susceptible population of patients is one of the explanations why we've seen such -- this high death rate.
DOBBS: Now, worldwide, Dr. Low, what we thought was a death rate of approximately 3.8 percent -- and, again I know statistically, even though there are more than 3,000 cases worldwide, that is not a sufficient number to make a determination about a specific static fatality rate here, which is obviously concerning all of the world health agencies and medical professionals -- but that number is gone from 3.8 to almost 5 percent worldwide now.
Is it much too early to make much of that?
LOW: I think so because we're not identifying the patients that have milder disease with very mild symptoms. Somebody with just a bit of a fever and a headache --we might not be recognizing them as having this disease. And if we include those in our population, then the mortality rate will come down.
However, I'm still concerned, as we all are, about this mortality rate because we are out there looking for these cases. So, I think we're doing a pretty good job of identifying them and in doing that, we have this mortality rate of 3 percent, which is about 100 times greater than what we see for influenza during the normal influenza season. So, that's a significant rate and something we have to be concerned about.
DOBBS: And in conclusion, Dr. Low, is there any hope here that we will see this rate of growth in the number of SARS virus cases diminish in the weeks ahead?
LOW: Well, we want to see it diminish in Toronto, and that's what everybody is doing to bring that rate down. We have to be successful. The rest of the world and China, I'm not so sure. I think this is going to be with us for the long term.
DOBBS: Dr. Donald low. Thank you very much, Sir, for being with us.
LOW: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, Jacques Chirac wants France, of course, to have a role in post-war Iraq. It now appears that he is willing to make nice in order to do so. Former defense secretary William Cohen will join us to assess the view of the president of France in a post- war world and the role of France in the rebuilding of Iraq.
U. S. forces made a remarkable discovery today. The papers of the scientist who once conducted biological warfare tests for Saddam Hussein. Mike Boettcher will have our exclusive report.
And North Korea may have learned from the war in Iraq. Kitty Pilgrim will have that report for us. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: U. S. forces in Baghdad are staging spot raids around that city, searching for holdout members of Saddam's regime. As we reported, one key initiative is the search for weapons of mass destruction. And as part of that effort, U. S. Special Forces today raided the home of the Iraqi microbiologist known as "Dr. Germ", the woman who ran Iraq's secret biological warfare laboratory.
Mike Boettcher has our exclusive report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Dr. Rihab Taha, a.k.a. Dr. Germ and a bug lady who directed Iraq's biological weapons program.
CNN has exclusively obtained the United Nations English translations of her Arabic work papers. Her research was conducted here at a location well known to UN Arms inspectors, al Mohammad Yeat (ph), 300 miles west of Baghdad.
Her notes begin with the test objective. Her written words are read by a narrator.
NARRATOR: A field experiment was conducted to disperse biological agents, botulinum toxin and spores of bacillus subtilis, an anthrax simulant, by exploding 122mm al-buraq rockets. The rockets were filled with a biological agent. A could was formed that moved down wind near the ground surface
BOETTCHER: The tests were a success.
NARRATOR: We have proved the effects of the botulinum toxin and its field use. Eighty percent of the experimental animals perished.
BEOTTCHER: Taha then described the success of their tests using an anthrax simulant in artillery rockets.
NARRATOR: When exploding the rockets, it was found out that the highest spores rate was in the locations that were new to the explosions, specifically within the first circle of 20 meters diameter. Neither the metal of rocket container nor the blast temperature had any effect on the spores' vitality.
BEOTTCHER: And she revealed success in a 1989 test, using aerial bombs to disperse biological agents.
NARRATOR: In a previous study prepared by us, military dispersal means 250 kilogram aerial bombs were used to disperse bacterial toxins and biological agents. It was a successful method.
BEOTTCHER (on camera): Dr. Taha's notes do not tell us how far she eventually progressed in her biological weapons testing. That's why the Marines came knocking, looking for her papers and looking for her.
Mike Boettcher, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And she has not been found yet.
Coming up next, France continues to press for a role in the rebuilding of Iraq. Former defense secretary William Cohen will join us to assess what role might be available to France.
Comparisons to one's father are often difficult. CNN political analyst Bill Schneider, nonetheless, takes chances at doing just that with a comparative look at Presidents Bush, numbers 41 and 43.
Forget about the anger and the outrage of the American public. The Department of Energy is close to awarding an $8 billion contract to the French and the Germans. Bill Tucker will have that report next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: French President Jacques Chirac today said the United Nations should have a central role in the reconstruction of Iraq. His comments come just a day after he said he would be somewhat pragmatic. Chirac speaking at a meeting of the European Union in Athens, Greece, said the United Nations is, in his words, the sole body with the competence and legitimacy to find a way out of the crisis.
So, what role should France have, if any? Joining us now, former secretary of defense William Cohen. Bill, good to see you.
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Good to be here again Lou.
DOBBS: Just when we thought Chirac was going to be reasonable, he starts asserting in contravention of Blair and Bush a central role for the U.N.
COHEN: Well, it was very divelest (ph) of him to say the least to raise that as an issue about the central. I think the U.N. will have a role but as you and I have discussed, those who have born the burden and those who have shed the blood are the ones who should stand first in line as far as the reconstruction of Iraq is concerned. There is a role for the U.N. to play in the way of delivering humanitarian assistance and some reconstruction but first and foremost will come those the British, the United States, the Australians and others of that willing coalition who stood in line and faced the enemy. Those who were behind will share at some point in time but not in the immediate future.
DOBBS: Let's turn to - from - and it is horribly a matter that it is over with but just from military victory now to the rebuilding of Iraq itself, the effort is underway, the first meeting yesterday. This job many are saying can't be done. Do you think that is really selling the Iraqi people short?
COHEN: Well, I think the job can be done and it will be done. If the United States keeps its word and puts as much in its commitment of building a military force that was able to accomplish this in record time, I think there's no doubt about it that the Iraqi people in conjunction with the allied forces and the U.N. will be able to rebuild that country in a reasonably short period of time.
DOBBS: You know as Defense Secretary Rumsfeld is and appropriately so but found of pointing out, the U.S. military and the coalition military did not destroy the infrastructure of Iraq. The building is going to be of an entirely different nature than many might have expected before this war.
COHEN: Well, I think that's the case and I think with respect to the natural resources that the Iraqi people have, namely their oil, there'll be a number of western companies that will be able to renew those and replenish those facilities to give them even more productive capacity. So I think that this will not as big a job as some perhaps fear at this point but I think it can be done in a reasonably, you know, short period of time given the resources that need to be committed, given the fact that we have a "secure environment" in which that rebuilding can take place and that remains key. There must be security before you can have the rebuilding.
DOBBS: Your reaction to the call by the Palestinians for the release of Abu Abas, the terrorist, the mastermind of the Philly Laurel (ph), an extraordinary call for people who are in an organization that is trying to negotiate a peace and a permanent suborn state. COHEN: A bit of tone deafness there I think on the part of the Palestinians. In this particular case, they site an amnesty agreement with the Israelis which will be effective between them and the Israelis but this goes to the heart of the U.S. relationship with Italy as well and Italy has called for the extradition of Abu Abas, and I suspect that within a relatively short period of time that will take place.
One other word I want to suggest about extradition, we have seen most recently that our Canadian friends have indicated that even if they were to apprehend some of the Iraqi criminals as such, they would not turn them over to the United States. If we're going to have extradition treaties with our friends and allies then there must be an adherence to the spirit and law of the treaties.
DOBBS: You said that gently and nicely. Let me put it in somewhat more stark terms. Why should we tolerate such conduct?
COHEN: Well, we won't tolerate such conduct and we will not abide by such conduct but I think the message has to go to our friends that you will need to abide by the laws that we signed, the treaties that we signed. If other countries such as our European friends as well have a problem with capital punishment in the United States and say that we're not going to extradite people to the United States, that's going to set in motion a counter balance by the U.S. saying under those circumstances we may not recognize your extradition requests when they come. In this particular case, Italy has been with the United States. They did convict him in absentia and I believe they are entitled to have him returned but I also think if they will be somewhat lenient in allowing the United States to have whatever time is necessary to question Abu Abas to see whether or not he is related to other terrorist activity.
DOBBS: Let's turn, if we may, to North Korea. The Koreans, the North Koreans, have agreed to multi-lateral talks as the Bush Administration insisted. Those talks will take place later this month in Beijing, the 23rd. That's represents a sizable success of diplomacy on the part not only of the United States but also of countries in the region, China and Russia in particular along with Japan, does it not?
COHEN: It does indeed. Now hopefully there will be some sort of unified policy on the part of those countries who are determined to see that North Korea doesn't produce nuclear weapons. In this particular case I think China also got a very strong message that it's not in China's interest to see North Korea go forward with a nuclear weapons program so I think the steadfastness on the part of the United States coupled with the recognition by China, Russia and others that it's in all their interests to see to it that North Korea does not pursue nuclear weapons.
DOBBS: Bill, as a public servant for decades in both elected role as your role as secretary of defense, you are an astute political observer as well as astute geopolitical observer. Do you sense here in these early days following the major conflict in Iraq the changes in - with Syria, that relationship obviously undergoing change, the change in attitude to the (INAUDIBLE) dispension (ph) with China and certainly with North Korea. Is there a change tone geopolitically here?
COHEN: I think there is. We have skipped over the EU, which also is somewhat controversial right now in terms of whether or not - we have always supported an open united, free and democratic united Europe as such. It depends what kind of a Europe it's going to be. If, for example, the French who have continued to try to pit the new European members against the United States, that's going to have quite an (INAUDIBLE) upon us that they have. There are still countries who want to become part of the U and we still encourage them but if the EU is going to be used as a partner, friendly competitor, competition is good. That is fine. If it's going to be used as an organization to undercut the United States in our policies then that's certainly not going to be supported by the United States and I think it will end up fracturing the united Europe so to speak.
So that's one area but to get back to your point about other countries, I think they've taken note of the determination on the part of the United States to use force if it becomes absolutely essential. Our goal right now should be speak softly, walk softly, we know we have the big stick but now try to build relationships that will again solidify this war against terror which is going to require worldwide support.
DOBBS: Bill Cohen, as always, good to have you here. Thank you.
Coming up next, confronting Syria. U.S. officials have increased pressure on Iraq's neighbor. The former U.S. Ambassador to Syria joins me to discuss what's next. Also, each one had to balance war, international politics and a domestic economy with some problems. Bill Schneider will look at the first President Bush failed (ph) and how his son looks in comparison. And the energy department could be close to awarding a multi-billion dollar contract to France. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN: Hello everyone. I'm Arthel Neville here with what's making headlines at this hour.
General Tommy Franks, the supreme commander of coalition forces in Iraq, arrived in Baghdad today. Franks along with senior officers spoke via videoconference with President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld while smoking cigars in one of Saddam's former palaces.
Police in California say it could take weeks to complete DNA testing on two bodies that washed ashore in San Francisco Bay Sunday and Monday. There is wide speculation that the bodies are those of Lacey Peterson and her baby. Peterson was eight months pregnant when she disappeared in December.
The Kansas City Royals baseball team is threatening not to take the field tonight in Chicago. A baseball fan rushed the field last night in Chicago's U.S. Cellular field, formerly Comisky Park. The fan tried to tackle the first base umpire in the eighth inning of the game between the White Sox and the Royals. A similar incident occurred last September at Comisky when two fans attacked a Kansas City coach. Security for tonight's game will be tightened.
American Airlines flight attendants are voting at this hour on wage concessions that could save up bankruptcy for the airline. Yesterday flight attendants rejected the concession package. American, the world's largest airline, says it needs to cut $1.8 billion in labor costs in order to avoid chapter 11 bankruptcy.
On Wall Street stocks closed mixed. The DOW Jones industrial average lost 144 points. The NASDAQ gained just under four points.
Those are the headlines at this hour. I'm Arthel Neville. Now back to Lou in New York.
DOBBS: Arthel, thank you very much.
The war against Saddam Hussein has put President Bush in a similar position to that of President George Herbert Walker Bush following the Persian Gulf War. The President's approval ratings are strong but he faces challenges that the previous President Bush was not able to surmount.
Senior political analyst Bill Schneider has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN: Spring 1991, President Bush wins a great military victory over Saddam Hussein but the economy is weak. The president's victory glow quickly fades.
Spring 2003, President Bush wins a great military victory over Saddam Hussein but the economy is weak. Will this president's victory glow fade as quickly as his father's did?
Twelve years ago when the Gulf War ended the nation's unemployment rate was 6.8 percent and the economic growth rate was negative. The country was in recession. Now the unemployment rate is 5.8 percent. That's high but not as high as it was 12 years ago. The economy is growing now but very slowly. Some are calling it a jobless recovery, a slight difference but one that shows up in the public's assessment of the nation's economy then and now. Then, in 1991, despite all the good feelings about the war, a small majority of Americans said the nation's economy was in bad shape. Now, people are split. Exactly half say the economy is in good shape. Just under half say it's in bad shape. The first President Bush was criticized for being out of touch with ordinary Americans especially when he opposed extending unemployment benefits because he was concerned about the deficit.
GEORGE BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I do remember a time or two in the past where I had to veto legislation that just would have gone wild in terms of spending and I'm prepared to do that again if we have to. SCHNEIDER: The current President Bush is pushing Congress to pass an expensive program to stimulate the economy, mainly tax cuts. What about the deficit?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The best way to reduce the deficit is with more growth in our economy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: So is this President Bush in a stronger position politically than his father was 12 years ago? Apparently not. The first President Bush came out of his war with a spectacular 89 percent job approval rating. This President Bush comes out with 73 percent approval, very impressive but not quite spectacular. Both Presidents Bush enjoyed solid support with their Republican Party base even though the first President Bush had raised taxes the year before. Here's the big difference. The first President Bush came out of the war with 80 percent approval from democrats. This President Bush is at 61 percent among democrats, almost 20 points lower.
The current President Bush is a much more partisan figure than his father was and this war has been much more partisan than the first Gulf War.
1991 was the era of good feelings but in 2003 the country is a lot more partisan not just because of President Bush, it's also the legacy of the Clinton wars and the very divisive 2000 election.
Lou ...
DOBBS: Bill, that's an interesting look back in history and the comparison but there is also it seems to be a number of significant differences because there is almost the, I don't know whether you mean to suggest this, vulnerability on the part of President Bush but it's also easy to forget about a guy named Ross Perot as I recall being a very important factor in that 1992 election.
SCHNEIDER: That's right. Ross Perot ran on the deficit issue, which President Bush was - the first President Bush was very nervous about during his administration but really what Ross Perot appealed to was a lot of republicans who were uncomfortable voting for Bill Clinton but didn't want to re-elect President Bush. There was a kind of revolt in the country.
DOBBS: It was a period of some considerable polarization at least by 1992 and Bill Clinton, as I recall, got about 43 percent of the vote.
SCHNEIDER: Exactly right. He's the minority president.
DOBBS: And as we look at this too, another thing occurs to me because and you make not of it but as we look at those numbers, only 60 percent of the democrats, is that correct, approving of the president now?
SCHNEIDER: Yeah and that's pretty high for democrats. DOBBS: That's a huge - that's a huge improvement from what it was previous to the onset of the war against Saddam Hussein isn't it?
SCHNEIDER: It is a huge improvement. Most democrats for the time being support the president but it's nothing like the good feelings that his father enjoyed and I confidently predict it won't last.
I do think there's one big difference between now and 1991 and 1992, we were attacked on September 11th. That makes an enormous difference. The war with Iraq now, this war, has a lot more immediate meaning to Americans than the Gulf War to liberate Kuwait did in 1991 and this war is ongoing. America's go to have a continuing presence in Iraq right through the election year.
DOBBS: And Bill I'm ever the optimist, a very positive - I seem to always find a positive perspective here. You have to be the hard headed analyst on it but if these numbers that 60 percent improvement, I'm not suggesting there'd be any diminishment whatsoever of or dimunition of partisanship. As a matter of fact that's healthy. That's great but it does look like if we could see these numbers we might see some receding of at least the polarization that you refer to.
SCHNEIDER: If those numbers are sustained that's exactly what we would see but my assessment is that throughout his presidency since the day he took office this President Bush has been a pretty divisive figure. Democrats just don't like him. They just don't trust him in part that's a legacy of the Clinton years and the 2000 election but I think that 60 percent ...
DOBBS: Well of course George Bush had nothing to do with impeachment proceedings against Bill Clinton.
SCHNEIDER: That's right. He did not have anything to do with it. He wasn't even in Washington during the Clinton wars. That's one of the reasons he got elected but I think a lot of democrats have been dismayed by what they regard as the hard-core conservative partisanship of the Bush Administration including this war.
DOBBS: Well, it's going to be, as you say, it's going to change. It'll be interesting to see how and to see what happens and what makes life in this country so fascinating.
SCHNEIDER: I'll make - I'll make one prediction. The war will be a much more central issue in 2004 than the war in the Gulf was in 1992.
DOBBS: So noted sir. Bill Schneider, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Well, Syria today amid heightened pressure from Washington proposed a U.N. resolution that would declare the Middle East a zone free from weapons of mass destruction. That resolution has the support of 22 Arab nations. Syria denies harboring terrorists and says its borders are closed to Iraqi officials trying to escape into Syria. The United States Ambassador to the United Nations had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN NEGROPONTE, UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: We think the focus at the moment is the search for WMD in Iraq. Secondly, we're concerned about Syria's owned WMD and obviously if a council member or any member of the United Nations proposes a resolution for consideration, we're prepared to consider it. That doesn't mean we're prepared to adopt it, embrace it or endorse it in any way, shape or form.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Syria today also said it was willing to cooperate with the United States where Iraq is concerned but said it would not close the offices of militant Palestinian groups.
Well, joining me now to share his thoughts on Syria and the U.S. policy in the Middle East, Edward Djerejian who is the former U.S. Ambassador to Syria and Director of Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy.
Mr. Ambassador, good to have you with us.
EDWARD DJEREJIAN, DIRECTOR, RICE UNIVERSITY'S BAKER INSTITUTE FOR PUBLIC POLICY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SYRIA: Good evening Lou.
DOBBS: Syria still a terrorist state. It is on the list of terrorist nations by the state department of this government. What do you think is at this point the greatest challenge facing the U.S. government?
DJEREJIAN: In terms of Syria, our relationships with Syria?
DOBBS: Of course.
DJEREJIAN: I think that there's a history of our relations with Syria in which there's been both what I can call positive engagement in which we obtained results and also the issues that we have not been able to narrow and bring to any successful conclusion and the terrorism issue is one of those in which there's a big difference between the U.S. view and the Syrian view on certain groups that Syria gives safe haven to but I think what's important is that Syria has a real interest in maintaining a structural and important relationship with the United States.
Syria needs the United States especially after the fall of the Soviet Union in order to achieve its own objectives national and in the region and I'm thinking most importantly in terms of Arab Israeli peace making and Syria's goal to really get back the Golan heights and enter into peace with Israel. Syria wants the United States in a room in those negotiations. So that's a structural issue and Lou, there is a - despite the differences of when I was Ambassador to Damascus under both President Regan and President Bush, we had a heavy agenda at that time also, ending the civil war in Lebanon, terrorism, U.S. hostages in Beirut, freedom of travel to Syrian Jews, getting Syria on board the Desert Storm coalition and getting Syria to negotiate directly with Israel. On most of those issues we really made progress and achieved results. On others we didn't and I think the main message here is how can we get Syria to seriously engage with us in trying to narrow these important differences we have with them.
DOBBS: Ambassador, do you believe that we can be successful there? You're talking about a period in which well Basra Asad (ph) has now in office just a few years. He is relatively young, inexperienced certainly as a - as a leader. Does he have the capacity of his father to build here?
DJEREJIAN: Well, I've only met with him two times but I do know that he has a reformist agenda in terms of the Syrian economy and there's the slogan of his administration when he came into power which I think is still there is continuity and change and when you look at it, perhaps there's been too much continuity and not enough change but fundamentally I think that he wants to proceed because he realizes the very serious state of the Syrian economy and the demographic pressures and the unemployment and the tasks he has in front of him to bring the Syrian nation up to a level where the population will be more satisfied.
Also, he has to take the lead on Arab Israeli peace making. He also has to play to an Arab constituency because Syria styles itself at the Van Gogh (ph) of Pan Arab nationalist thinking and political action. So he has to juggle all these things. His father was in power for 30 years. He was a master negotiator and he has been - Bashar Aloff (ph) has been in power for three years so this is a time of testing for him. Perhaps this is the most important one but what I'm saying is that I still do and this may be a professional deformation as a former diplomat Lou but I really think if that Syria engages seriously with the United States in a real dialogue not a phony dialogue, not talk for the sake of talk but really trying to resolve the issues, there may be a real prospect of making progress.
DOBBS: Mr. Ambassador, we thank you very much for being with us.
DJEREJIAN: You're very welcome Lou.
DOBBS: Come back soon.
Coming up next, France admits boycotts of its products in this country are now costing it dearly.
And Bill Tucker will report tonight on a French owned concern that may win a big contract from the United States government and that is creating more than just a little concern in many quarters. That story is coming up next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: France's leading business group today acknowledged that sales of its wine and other products have dropped sharply over the past two months in the United States. Ano Becklash (ph) however from the U.S. Department of Energy, the department may be close in fact to awarding a contract worth $8.5 billion to a French owned company passing over two U.S. companies.
Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN: Anger and outrage make good pictures but the Department of Energy doesn't seem to be paying attention. The Federal Government is handing out contracts to French and German companies for the disposal of nuclear waste. Already this week the Department of Energy has granted a $30 million contract for a facility in Handford (ph), Washington to a German owned company Nucum (ph) and now a contract worth $8.5 billion to finish up the Yuckamount (ph) nuclear waste storage facility is about to be awarded.
JACK KINGSTRON, (R), GEORGIA: It would make sense that particularly when it comes to nuclear regulatory awards that when everything's equal, particularly the safety question has been removed, then leaning towards an American country.
TUCKER: If the contract is given to a French consortium Cogema it means that the DOE will have to pass over bids from two other consortiums with American companies as partners.
DAVID BOSSIE, CITIZENS UNITED: The French government has shown itself for what it is and it is clearly not an ally of the United States at this point and we feel very strongly that the - that the French companies, when it deals with our national security, contracts dealing with our national security, should not be eligible.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: This is not just any French company. Cogema's largest shareholder is the French government. The German government is a minority shareholder. The winner gets the inside edge on the winning the contract to transport radioactive waste to the facility worth another estimated $1 billion. The contract will be awarded by Vecktil (ph), the general contractor on the project and the bids are not public and Vecktil (ph) does not have to award the contract on the basis of cost.
Lou ...
DOBBS: Well, Vecktil (ph) I would think would be interested in national security issues and turning over the transport of radioactive waste to a foreign firm is problematic it would seem at best.
TUCKER: You would think so and one would hope that they would take that into consideration but they don't have to formerly do so. There is some indication however Lou that the DOE may be weighing just as you suggest, suggesting perhaps they do just that.
DOBBS: OK. Bill Tucker, thank you very much.
We just received this word. American Airlines has staved off bankruptcy at least for now. CNN correspondent Greg Clark has learned that American's flight attendants have agreed to $340 million of wage concessions joining two other unions. Just yesterday the flight attendants voted against the concessions. American said it would file for bankruptcy if all three of its unions did not agree to almost $2 billion of labor cost reductions. Once again, American Airlines tonight avoiding bankruptcy as the flight attendants joined the pilots and machinists unions in helping the company avoid bankruptcy.
Let's turn to your e-mails. Joe in Idaho to say, "Lou, those of us who disagree with the Bush Administration are not necessarily abstinent idiots who blindly follow partisan aims. I wish the same could be said for you." Well it could but it just won't be likely said by you.
Tom Neumann in Texas wrote in to say, "Lou, you have slid into the depths of a carnival barker pushing simple minded right wing childish gibberish that I would expect from a neo-conservative radio talk show host narcissist. What have you let happen to you Lou?" All the very best things I think.
Ginny Bryant of Virginia wrote into say, "Mr. Dobbs you have a most interesting show and some of the feedback you receive is uncalled for." I couldn't agree with you more by the way. "One of the reasons the world is in the condition it is today is because of hate and discontent that some of your viewers display in e-mails to you. I hope they remember the old adage what goes around comes around." Well, let's not wish anything that bad on them.
And Jamie Squires of Indianapolis wrote in to say, "It has been nice to Bill Cohen on your show quite frequently. Like yourself he's a great dresser. Finally someone is giving you a run for the money in the fashion department. Keep up the great work." Well Bill Cohen will be most appreciative of that.
We appreciate your thoughts. E-mail us at moneyline@cnn.com. For all of us here, thanks for joining us. Paula Zahn is coming up next followed by Larry King.
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