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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
Pentagon: Senior Iraqi Leaders May Be Hiding in Syria; Reconstruction of Iraq to Cost Billions; North Korea Raises Stakes in Nuclear Standoff
Aired April 18, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Tonight, growing suspicions that Syria continues to harbor escaped members of Saddam Hussein's regime. This despite repeated warnings from the United States to hand over those fugitives. The Pentagon says the former secretary of the Iraqi Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard is among those regime leaders hiding in Syria. Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre will have the story for us.
The reconstruction of Iraq will take years to complete. It will cost billions of dollars. The rebuilding effort is being led by USAID, and the Pentagon's Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance. The USAID Administrator, Andrew Natsios, will join us. We'll be talking about the huge challenges ahead and how reconstruction contracts are being awarded.
North Korea today dramatically raised the stakes in the nuclear standoff with the United States and other regional powers. Just days before talks with the United States, North Korea has announced it's ready to reprocess spent nuclear fuel rods. Senior White House correspondent John King will report on U.S. reaction, and former Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard Perle will be here to tell us how the United States should deal with North Korea and other rogue states.
China today ordered an all-out war against the SARS virus. The Communist Party said there must be delay or deceit in reporting cases of the disease. SARS has spread from China to 25 other countries. It's killed 170 people.
Health policy expert, former lieutenant governor of New York, Betsy McCaughey, will be my guest tonight to tell us why she says the United States must impose a travel ban on some Asian countries.
But first, we go to Arthel Neville at CNN Center for the latest headlines at this hour.
(NEWS BREAK)
DOBBS: Arthel, thank you, and good evening, everyone.
The Pentagon said today the former head of Iraq's Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard may have escaped to Syria. He's one of several former members of Saddam's regime thought to have fled across the border. Coalition forces have so far caught only four of the 55 regime leaders on the coalition's most wanted list. Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Pentagon sources say U.S. Special Operations Forces are now concentrating their manhunt in northwestern Iraq, where it's believed a large number of fugitive officials may have gathered to try to get into Syria. Sources say the U.S. believes number eight on the most wanted list, Kamal Mustafa Abdallah Sultan al Tikriti, the former secretary of the Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard, may have already made it across the border.
RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: We know that Syria is harboring some of the senior regime leadership, at least their families, probably some of the senior members. We know that.
MCINTYRE: Syria says it has now sealed its border and recently turned back Abu Abbas, the Palestinian who plotted the Achille Lauro hijacking, as well as Barzan Ibrahim Hasan al-Tikriti, one of Saddam Hussein's half brothers. Both men were subsequently captured by U.S. troops in Iraq. The U.S. believes the key to finding where weapons of mass destruction are hidden is by finding the people who may have hidden them.
BRIG. GEN. VINCENT BROOKS, CENTCOM: From all those we have access to, we seek information. Some are more cooperative than others.
MCINTYRE: Of the 55 most wanted Iraqis depicted on playing cards given to U.S. troops, so far the U.S. has only four in hand. The most recent capture, Ba'ath Party official, Samir Abdul Aziz al Najm (ph), was handed over to coalition forces by Iraqi Kurds near Mosul.
One other leader, the man nicknamed "Chemical Ali" by the United States, is believed to have been killed in a U.S. air strike. But whether a strike on this Baghdad neighborhood killed Saddam Hussein and his two sons remains an open question because U.S. forces have not been able to take the time to excavate the site.
BROOKS: We don't have remains that have been identified at this point, but our efforts are ongoing to find all we can about that and also to get information from others who may have had knowledge as to what happened that night during the strike.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: While the U.S. thinks some of its 55 most wanted Iraqis may have slipped into Syria, it still believes most are still in Iraq, including Saddam Hussein. Assuming he's either alive or dead, something that no one in the U.S. government is quite sure of -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you. First, is there some reason that the Pentagon, that they've offered, that there hasn't been more priority put on looking to that bomb site where they obviously believe Saddam and many leaders of the regime were when they attacked it? MCINTYRE: Well, apparently, it's going to require some heavy equipment to really dig through the rubble. Some of the local residents there have already sort of picked through it. But it was a very deep strike, and it's going to take some time to dig through it.
And the U.S. doesn't have total control over that area, I'm told. There's still some elements in that area that might want to threaten U.S. forces. So, they really haven't devoted the energy required to really make a thorough search, not yet.
DOBBS: And is the Pentagon suggesting any course of action given that there is this deep suspicion that a number of a regime leaders have moved into Syria?
MCINTYRE: At this point, it looks like the United States will resort to diplomatic pressure to try to get Syria to turn over some of those people who may be within its borders.
And there's some indication from Pentagon officials that Syria might be willing to do that. All of that might be key to the visit of Colin Powell, the secretary of state, which is expected sometime in the coming weeks. But that's still a trip that hasn't been nailed down.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you again. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
Today a rare glimpse into the secret war carried out by coalition Special Forces in western Iraq. Members of Australia's Special Air Service Regiment played a leading role in those operations.
The coalition said Australian troops found 51 Iraqi fighter jets hidden at an air base in western Iraq. Some of the planes were under camouflage netting. Others were buried beneath the ground. Not a single Iraqi fighter jet took part in the conflict.
U.S. officials today questioned the authenticity of a new videotape of Saddam Hussein. That videotape was supposedly shot on April 9, that the day Baghdad fell to coalition forces. The tape was obtained by Abu Dhabi television from an undisclosed source. Our national security correspondent, David Ensor, with the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The question for U.S. intelligence: Were these two images recorded on the same day? Was Saddam Hussein rallying supporters in one Baghdad neighborhood, even as his statue came down in another part of town on April 9?
The Alazamiyah neighborhood is just four miles from Firdos Square, where U.S. forces helped bring down the statue. Assuming this is Saddam, and if it really were recorded on April 9, then clearly he survived the attempt to kill him on the evening of April 7. So, apparently did his son, Qusay, seen on the tape just to the right of his father. There were reports Saddam Hussein might have been in Alazamiyah April 9, but CNN couldn't find anyone in the neighborhood Friday who remembered seeing him there since March. U.S. officials are skeptical, too, partly because of their analysis of this other tape released earlier. It was said to be Saddam Hussein on the streets of Baghdad on April 4.
Not true, say U.S. officials. They believe it was most likely taped in early March. They based that on certain changes in the background to buildings and the like. Note also the relatively warm clothes worn, suitable for early March. But April, it had gotten much warmer.
Administration officials, from the president on down, are saying what matters is not whether the dictator still lives, but that the regime's control has collapsed. But to U.S. military and intelligence officials, Saddam's fate does matter.
KENNETH POLLACK, SABAN CENTER, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: As long as Saddam Hussein is out there, the United States is not going to be finished with this war, at least in the sense that, as long as Saddam is out there, there may be loyalists who are willing to fight for him.
ENSOR: As for the audiotape, also broadcast Friday by Abu Dhabi Television, U.S. intelligence will be able to say soon whether it's Saddam Hussein's voice or not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are confident that victory at the end will be ours.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: The problem is, whether it's his voice or not, there may be no way to assess when it was made. So, the audiotape may not provide any clue as to whether Saddam Hussein is alive or dead, and that, of course, is something U.S. officials would very much like to know -- Lou.
DOBBS: David, Abu Dhabi Television -- how are they treating that tape? Are they saying as a matter of fact that it was shot on the 9th of April?
ENSOR: They are saying that they are confident it was. They say they received it from an Iraqi who runs a production house that was asked by the Iraqi television people to stand in in the event their facilities were destroyed by the Americans and to record some of this historical material. And that he insists -- and he's willing to come on camera if he's got protection promises from the Americans -- that it was filmed on the 9th.
As I say, though, American officials are somewhat skeptical about that -- Lou.
DOBBS: David, as always, thank you. David Ensor, our national security correspondent. The war against Iraq may be largely over, but tensions certainly are rising again on the Korean peninsula. North Korea says it has completed all steps required to begin reprocessing nuclear fuel rods. Those rods could be used to make nuclear weapons.
The North Koreans made the surprise announcement a few days before talks with China and the United States. Senior White House correspondent, John King, joins us now with the story -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, some confusion tonight, and it appears at this hour there may be less to this than many officials thought earlier in the day.
An English translation of the statement by the official North Korean news agency says that North Korea is in the final stages of reprocessing nuclear fuel rods. That reprocessing could lead to development of nuclear weapons, and that would be quite troubling.
But officials tonight say they have gone back and looked at the Korean version, the Korean language version of that statement, and in Korean, what the North Korean government said was that it was up at the point at which the reprocessing would be next. So on the verge of reprocessing, not actually in the reprocessing stage. That is a significant distinction, of course, in terms of how close North Korea would be to developing new nuclear weapons.
Still, because of this confusion and because of this statement from the North Korean government, the Bush administration says it will now consult with Japan and with South Korea as to whether to go ahead with those talks planned for next week in China. White House spokeswoman, Claire Buchan, saying earlier today in Crawford, Texas, "We are consulting with other interested states, and once we have a clear set of the facts and the views of our friends and allies, we will make a decision as to how to proceed. So we're evaluating the statement, and we're consulting with others."
Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly was to lead the U.S. delegation in those talks. China is the facilitator. The talks to be in Beijing, featuring the North Koreans, the United States, and China. We do know that the Bush administration at those talks will demand that North Korea set aside its nuclear program and also will demand that South Korea and Japan be included down the road if the talks continue.
The question is, of course, tonight is will there be any talks next week in Beijing as planned? White House officials tell us they should have an answer in the next day or so --Lou.
DOBBS: John, is the White House, the president, is there some concern there that the first statements to them would not be clear translations from a government that is obviously in a very tense state? That is, North Korea.
KING: Well, certainly, that is one of the reasons the Bush administration did not immediately cancel the talks, did not immediately return the bluster, if you will, to the North Korean government. It said it wanted to speak first to its allies in the region.
In any event, the Bush administration believes that North Korea is once again making statements about its nuclear program to try to gain some leverage in the talks. This has been a back and forth, if you will, that has frustrated the White House for months.
But the administration says, though, that it would very much like, despite its disagreement and its displeasure with the North Korean government, to try to get the dialogue, the diplomacy, to begin.
The question now is they want to closely analyze that statement. There is no doubt they do not want the North Koreans talking about a nuclear program at all on the eve of these talks. So, there's disappointment here, make no mistake about it. But if the North Koreans are saying they are not yet reprocessing, White House officials say they see no reason then not to go forward, at least with one round of discussions -- Lou.
DOBBS: John, thank you very much. John King, our senior White House correspondent.
Coming up next here, police in Modesto, California, tonight say there has been a "significant development", as they term it, in the Laci Peterson case. We'll have the latest for you from CNN's Mike Brooks, who is in Modesto.
And the United Nations wants a lead role in post-war Iraq, despite statements quite to the contrary from President Bush. Former Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard Perle says the United Nations should stay out. He's our guest here next.
We'll also address the rising tensions with North Korea.
Also, the United States takes the lead in bringing humanitarian aid to Iraq. Kitty Pilgrim will report.
And Peter Viles will have the latest for us on the SARS virus epidemic and efforts to control its spread around the world and in this country.
We'll hear from Betsy McCaughey, a health policy expert, former New York lieutenant governor, who says not enough is being done to prevent an outbreak in this country. She has some ideas that she says should be put in place.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We're going to be focusing in just a moment on the United Nations and its various proposed roles in the rebuilding of Iraq.
But first, we want to go to Modesto, California. Our reporter there, Mike Brooks, is standing by. Modesto Police say there's been a significant development in the Laci Peterson investigation. Here now is CNN's Mike Brooks -- Mike. MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Lou. Just a short time ago, a Modesto Police spokesperson put out a press advisory, and all the press advisory says right now, Lou, is "there's been a significant change in the Laci Peterson investigation." What this exact change is we do not know right now. There's been a lot of speculation here in Modesto all day long that the return of the DNA samples that they put in the other day from the two remains were found in San Francisco Bay on Sunday and Monday, that of an adult female and that of the full-term child, were sent to the California Department of Justice crime lab, DNA lab, I should say. And they say the results may be back today.
Now, the other -- the $500,000 question right now, Lou, is where is Scott Peterson? There has supposedly been Scott Peterson sightings here in Modesto in the past week. But we've just learned from our affiliate in Sacramento is that he has been arrested in San Diego. But let me caution that CNN does not have independent confirmation of that particular fact. We're checking with our sources right now to try to find out if that is true and, hopefully, we'll be able to give you an update.
Tonight at 6:00 p.m. local Pacific time and 9:00 Eastern, there will be a press conference by the Modesto Police Department with this update in the Laci Peterson investigation -- Lou.
DOBBS: Mike, thank you very much. And to repeat again what Mike has just said, one of our affiliates there reporting that Scott Peterson, the husband of Laci Peterson, has been apparently arrested in San Diego. Mike says we have not corroborated that, but our affiliates have very high news standards as well. So, Mike will be continuing to work on that and will bring those details to us on this broadcast as soon as they're available. Mike Brooks, reporting live from Modesto.
Turning now to Iraq, the United Nations should not play a major role in the reconstruction of Iraq, that according to Iraqi politician, Ahmed Chalabi. Chalabi said today the United Nations lacks the capability, the credibility, to oversee post-war Iraq. He said the United States should be responsible for the rebuilding effort. And in that, he is squarely behind President Bush and his administration.
My next guest also agrees with Mr. Chalabi that the United Nations should pay only a limited role, if any at all, in rebuilding Iraq. Richard Perle was the assistant secretary of defense under President Ronald Reagan and joins us tonight from our studios in Washington. Good to have you with us.
RICHARD PERLE, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Good evening, Lou.
DOBBS: This issue, the continued assertion now by, most recently the European Union and the continued assertion by Kofi Annan, the French and the Germans which, at one point, looked they were going to back off on it a little bit, saying they've got to have a central role. What do you make of this? PERLE: Well, the U.N. is a large international bureaucracy. Within it, France and Germany have considerable influence, and they want to be in Iraq, part of the reconstruction of Iraq, I think, largely for their own reasons.
The U.N. has been administering the food for oil program. The U.N. has taken over $1 billion out of that program for the U.N. And when it comes to an end, so will that flow of cash to the U.N. So, the U.N. is very much an interested party and would like to continue that program. But it won't be necessary soon.
DOBBS: The food for oil program, set to expire here in less than two months. The fact, though, those United Nations sanctions remain against Iraq. The United States has requested they be lifted. The United Nations to this point, and other members of the Security Council who were opposed to the war to begin with, say there will be a quid pro quo for the lifting of those sanctions. What do you think of that?
PERLE: I think it is absolutely outrageous to suggest that the free people of Iraq should be subjected to sanctions that were intended to deal with the regime of Saddam Hussein. As a condition and unless benefits are given to the United Nations, to France, and Germany -- the hypocrisy is breathtaking. After all, the French and the Russians wanted to lift the sanctions when Saddam was in place. Now they say they don't want to lift the sanctions after Saddam has been removed from office, and the reason is they have demands that are consistent with their own commercial interests.
I never thought I would see the day when such manifest selfishness would be paraded in front of the world.
DOBBS: We have watched some rather manifest displays over the course of what is now seven months, since President Bush turned to the United Nations. What is the implication, in your judgment, for the United Nations for our relationships with both France and Germany?
PERLE: Well, the United Nations was conceived in the aftermath of World War II, largely to provide a collective response to aggression across national borders, and that was the threat of the Twentieth Century.
In the 21st century, now what we're concerned about are terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. And for dealing with them, the United Nations has no history, no mandate really.
So the U.N. has to be substantially revised if it's going to be effective in the future. It has to be able to deal with today's threats, weapons of mass destruction, terrorism, states sponsoring terrorism, and they have been unwilling to do that. The U.N. failed the people of Iraq. It failed those of us who were concerned about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. And until we realize its failure, we can't begin to think creatively about how to rebuild it.
DOBBS: Thinking creatively about how to rebuild it, how about thinking creatively, constructively, and positively about denying neglect when it comes to the United Nations, and as a matter of U.S. policy, simply consigning it to humanitarian roles, for which it is perhaps well suited?
PERLE: Well, it certainly can carry out humanitarian roles, and I think should. There are things that the U.N. does better than other things.
But they're not very good at security. That's clear. Only twice in the history of the United Nations has the use of force been authorized despite many threats and many wars. So, we need a new U.N. We need a new charter for the U.N. It would have to be renegotiated, of course.
DOBBS: How about a new Security Council?
PERLE: Well, very likely, a new Security Council as well.
The one thing we shouldn't do is send the U.N. into Iraq. It would be an insult to the people of Iraq because, when it was time for the U.N. to rescue the people of Iraq from Saddam Hussein, they didn't do it. And to now send them in to a free Iraq would be a real travesty.
DOBBS: It might well also be construed by many, and perhaps properly so, as an insult to those men and women of the coalition military who sacrificed their lives and who were wounded in that action.
PERLE: Indeed.
DOBBS: Richard Perle, as always, good to have you with us.
PERLE: Good to see you.
DOBBS: Still ahead here, we're following the latest news as we reported on the Laci Peterson case. Modesto, California Police saying tonight there has been a significant development in the Laci Peterson investigation. That includes a report of the arrest of Scott Peterson. We are pursuing that. Also, if there are any more developments, we'll be bringing them to you straight away.
Also, the SARS scare. Five weeks later, still the experts are unclear about the cause, even the number of cases. Peter Viles will report for us. Then a health policy expert will tell us how she thinks the United States could stem the spread of that disease in this country.
Also tonight, the massive effort to bring humanitarian relief to Iraq. Andrew Natsios is the man in charge of the U.S. government's humanitarian relief program. He will be my guest next.
And top executives at American Airlines have decided to give up their bonuses after a firestorm of protests from the members of the unions who had agreed to do so. But the unions tonight remain outraged. Bill Tucker will have their story. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: China today promised to wage an all-out war against the deadly virus known as SARS. But Chinese officials have made similar promises before. Peter Viles reports now on just how much we know about SARS in the country where it all began.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Five months into the SARS crisis, Chinese President Hu Jintao wants the world to know that now he's taking it seriously. After an emergency meeting of the Communist Party leadership, the Chinese government demanded Friday that local health officials provide "accurate, timely, and honest reporting about the disease."
But that new mandate came only after a public humiliation. The World Health Organization in China accused Beijing of underreporting the spread of the disease this week.
HENK BEKEDAM, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION REPRESENTATIVE TO CHINA: We have very clearly said, look here, you have an international community over here who doesn't, at this very moment, trust your figures. Now I think it's time to start building some confidence.
VILES: China has reported just under 1,500 cases of SARS and 65 deaths. Now World Health officials tell CNN, "We expect shortly to get fuller and more accurate numbers from Beijing." In other words, the number of cases reported in China is about to increase.
For Hu Jintao it's a significant blunder. The suppression of bad news undermines Beijing's efforts to recast itself as a more sophisticated and open government. Meantime, the inaccuracy of China's numbers makes it difficult to track the global spread of the disease.
But that said, based on daily reports released by WHO, SARS is now spreading at a rate of about 20, 24 percent per week. That means the number of cases doubles every month. The death rate, based on this week's numbers, is now just under five percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: Here in the United States, fear and anxiety continue to spread a lot faster than the disease itself.
Here in Chinatown in New York, a lot of local businesses tell us they feel they've been hurt by false rumors of some sort of SARS outbreak in this neighborhood. For the record, there is no outbreak here in Chinatown or anywhere in the United States. In all of the U. S., 35 probable cases of SARS as we speak tonight -- Lou.
DOBBS: OK. Peter Viles, thank you very much.
Coming up next, we'll be talking with health policy expert, Betsy McCaughey, about what she says the U.S. government should be doing to prevent SARS from spreading in this country. Also, the rebuilding of Iraq -- from bottles of water to multi- million dollar construction contracts, Kitty Pilgrim will have this special report.
And the head of the U.S. Agency for International Development, Andrew Natsios, is our guest.
Also, American Airlines asked its union members to take big pay cuts while promising big bonuses to their executives. Now the airline is backing off that plan, the big bonus part. Bill Tucker will have the latest for us on the fallout that threatened to scuttle the American Airlines deal with its unions and send it back to bankruptcy.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, Betsy McCaughey says she's not an alarmist. She wants this country to ban all travel to China and Vietnam because of the SARS virus. She also wants anyone who's been exposed to SARS to be quarantined, not just those suspected of having the virus.
She's the former lieutenant governor of New York and now a member of the Hudson Institute, where she focuses on health policy issues.
Betsy, good to have you here.
BETSY McCAUGHEY, HUDSON INSTITUTE: Thank you.
DOBBS: The travel ban, you think is important to prevent the spread of SARS here?
McCAUGHEY: It's one of the two steps that the United States government should be taking to protect the public from SARS.
The first is to keep all those who are infected or possibly infected away from those who have not been exposed to the virus. That's the principle of controlling an epidemic. Canada is doing it. The United States isn't.
DOBBS: Canadians, however, are being very critical of the way the Canadian government is quarantining, many suggesting -- including some of their leading health professionals -- that they're not being stringent enough in those quarantines.
While they have a number of cases with a very high relatively, high mortality rate, the United States has only 35 cases after the CDC revised those cases. What's the problem?
McCAUGHEY: Well, epidemics always start small. The number of cases in the United States now is not an indication of how many cases there could be. No one knows how large or small the SARS threat is.
But one thing is certain. And that is that this is an opportunity, a dress rehearsal in the war against bioterrorism. This is the time to test the effectiveness of our quarantine procedures and snuff out this epidemic. It's not a time to be lax.
DOBBS: All right. Do you think the CDC is being lax?
McCAUGHEY: In two ways. One, as I began before, they are only isolating those individuals who have shown symptoms of SARS, coughing and high fever or pneumonia, as opposed to all those who have possibly been exposed to SARS.
When a school child in Canada came down with symptoms of SARS, Canada closed the school. In Florida, when a 6-year-old came down with symptoms of SARS and his grandmother already had the disease, the health officials told the parents to keep the child home but instructed other parents to continue sending their children to school. The risk is that people who have been exposed but are not yet showing symptoms can spread the disease wisely -- widely, excuse me.
DOBBS: Now, as some people listening to you, Betsy, might think you're being an alarmist, even though we know you're not. You're very careful in your analysis of health policy issues. We know that from long experience with you.
Dr. Donald Lo, one of the leading infectious disease experts in the world, talked on this broadcast just two days ago, and he said at one point that this disease concerned him as much as any infectious disease outbreak that he had seen in his career, perhaps longer.
With that kind of concern, what do you -- what do you think of the reason is there hasn't been an absolute ban to those countries that have serious numbers of cases of SARS?
McCAUGHEY: It's unfortunate that too often in the United States public health officials have been more concerned with public relations than with controlling the spread of disease. They're more concerned with allaying fears than actually in preventing illness. That's a very, very big mistake, not just in this case, but many times.
For example, I'm sure you remember when Secretary Thompson of Health and Human Services responded to the first case of anthrax by saying this is an isolated case. The man must have gotten it from drinking water on a hunting trip. Of course, there was no basis for that conjecture, and it proved false very quickly.
DOBBS: I'm sure that the secretary wishes that he had never been advised of that information. And I think we're all going through some learning here.
McCAUGHEY: Let me make the point that other countries are acting. Thailand, for example, has imposed a ban on foreign travel. We could do that. We have the legal authority in this country to prevent Americans from traveling to high risk areas temporarily.
DOBBS: How much time do you think we have to make that decision?
McCAUGHEY: Very little time. The window of opportunity is closing because now the epidemic is spreading to other parts of the world. For example, the first case in Australia yesterday, the first case in South Africa earlier this week. Then a focused travel restriction will no longer be effective.
DOBBS: Betsy McCaughey, as always, good to talk with you. Thank you for being here.
Coming up next, we'll have the latest news of this hour, including developments on the Laci Peterson case.
Then, delivering humanitarian aid to Iraq and rebuilding that country will take obviously time and money. Kitty Pilgrim will have the special report.
And Andrew Natsios of the U.S. Agency for International Development, leading a good part of that effort, is our guest.
Also during the war against Saddam Hussein, the A-10 Warthog. It was an ugly, yet highly effective fighting machine. John Zarrella talks to the men behind the machine.
And we'll have the latest tonight on the condition of the pilot whales that have beached off the Florida Keys. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
DOBBS: The massive multi-billion dollar effort to rebuild Iraq is already under way. Aid is flowing into the country, water power being restored, and reconstruction plans are in place. But rebuilding a nation roughly the size of California will take years and billions of dollars.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The reconstruction of Iraq could cost $20-100 billion, depending on which expert makes that call. But it's much simpler than that. The quality of life comes back a bottle of water at a time.
CHARLES LYONS, PRESIDENT, U.S. FUNDS FOR UNICEF: You can't really provide for people's immediate health requirements if you don't have clean water. So everything -- the hospitals are screaming for clean water.
PILGRIM: U.S. Marines have been guarding medical facilities to stop looting. New supplies were brought into Baghdad under military protection this past week.
U.S. and British military forces are steadily restoring life lines in Iraq. Some power restored to Baghdad today. Water distributed. Food deliveries -- all improving conditions for Iraqis.
The International Committee of the Red Cross says a certain degree of calm has returned after days of looting. This week, convoys of trucks with food started flowing across the borders from Kuwait, Jordan, and Turkey from the world food program. Some 60 percent of Iraqis relied on food aid even before the war.
The post-war effort is being done largely by the U.S. military, with an American civilian administrator taking charge for the immediate future. Up until now, U.N. humanitarian agencies have thought Iraq was too insecure for its workers.
AHMAD CHALABI, LEADER, IRAQI NATIONAL CONGRESS: The first stage is the reconstruction of basic services and the restarting of basic services in Iraq. This will be done by Jay Garner, who has been appointed by President Bush for this purpose. I expect this state to take a few weeks.
PILGRIM: The U.S. Agency for International Development has awarded U.S. group Bechtel contracts up to $680 million to reconstruct Iraq's power, water, and sewage systems. It's only the beginning. Two and a half billion dollars was approved by Congress last week for aid and reconstruction.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: It's been only days since the hostilities have ended, and there are still flashes of resistance. The rebuilding process, by most estimates, is going to take a year or two. So this is just the beginning of a very complicated effort, Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
Well, joining us now from Washington, D.C., with more on the humanitarian aid efforts in Iraq is Andrew Natsios, the administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development, with the lead role in providing that aid.
ANDREW NATSIOS, ADMINISTRATOR, U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Good to have you with us, Mr. Administrator.
It's nice to be here this evening.
DOBBS: As Kitty Pilgrim reported, just about $2.5 billion approved for aid. We know there are some significant needs, particularly water, medicine. Is your agency capable of providing those needs straight away?
NATSIOS: We are. But we do require security. There is some areas in the south that are now becoming secure, we sent teams in now to Nasiriyah today. We're sending a team into Baghdad. They're in Al Basra, they're in Umm Qasr. So the teams are beginning to fan out as the security situation improves.
We're not soldiers, but our people -- it's the largest team we've ever put together of this kind in decades.
And we have the largest amount of resources that the president has given us in this budget for both humanitarian and reconstruction efforts. It's the largest budget since the Marshall Plan in a single country in a single year.
DOBBS: And you've already awarded a number of contracts in order to do so. And as I understand it, this is only the third time in the past decade that you have gone to a no-bid in order to expedite aid to Iraq. Is that correct?
NATSIOS: No. We haven't gone to a no-bid. We don't do that often except for an NGO, let's say, or U.N. agency in an emergency.
But for profit-making companies, we had what is called a limited competition for this contract on construction. There were seven major companies that bid on it. It was all done according to the federal acquisition regulations.
But that collapsed the process which normally takes six months, to two months, because the president said I want all of this in place by the time peace comes to the country so we can begin the reconstruction process immediately, and that's what we've done.
DOBBS: And, of course, Mr. Natsios, you are well aware of at least the international contest, as represented by a number of states, and the United Nations, that it play a lead role, the lead role, in point of fact, in humanitarian aid.
Will that, in point of fact, evolve to be the case, or will your agency continue to be the lead on humanitarian aid?
NATSIOS: Well, I have to tell you there's a lot of misunderstanding in how the system works.
The system we're using in Afghanistan and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mozambique and Ethiopia and Haiti is the same system we're using in Iraq. There is no manager who runs everything, the whole international system with an iron hand, including the U.N.
The U.N. convenes the NGOs, the donor government aid agencies like AID or DIFD (ph) in Britain, and it convenes a meeting with other U.N. agencies and with the International Committee of the Red Cross. We work together collaboratively. They can't give us orders, and we don't give them orders. We just work together in a cooperative way to do these sorts of things.
But I think there's an illusion that the U.N. is a dictator and that they order people around. They've never had that kind of power in any of these emergencies, and they certainly don't have it now.
DOBBS: And what would you say is the relative proportion of aid that will be brought to the Iraqi people and as a source from the world food program, the United Nations, and from USAID?
NATSIOS: Well, the U.N. agencies get their money from donor aid agencies like the British or the Canadians or the Japanese or the Europeans or the United States.
We have always been the largest donor in food aid to the World Food Program, which is their principal food aid agency of the U.N. agencies. We talked to WFP, and WFP is going to be running the food distribution program in Iraq with the NGOs, and we are by far the biggest donor to that. So we're coordinating with them very closely. There haven't been any disputes among us about how to do that.
DOBBS: Frankly, I'm very -- I really am not particularly concerned about how much you all argue amongst yourselves as long as you get the aid delivered.
NATSIOS: Exactly.
DOBBS: But the point is the United States, it seems, principally through your agency, also has a wonderful opportunity to affect at least some of the emotions of the Iraqi people by providing that aid and doing so in a bold way and a visible way.
And if the United Nations is there with that little blue and white flag, it makes it look quite different. How do you deal with that?
NATSIOS: Well, the bags of food that go in -- there was just a 50,000 tons was just shipped out of Galveston last week of American food, has a bag that has the American flag on it. And it says in English and in Arabic, "A gift of the American people."
So people will know where the food comes from. There are no bags that has the U.N. emblem on them. They come from some donor government somewhere. And we are the major donors, and the people of Iraq will know we're the ones, in fact, that are providing the food for them. When we provide assistance, people know we're providing it.
DOBBS: Andrew Natsios, you've made me feel a lot better. And I know you're working very hard to make the people of Iraq feel a lot better. Thank you very much, sir.
NATSIOS: Thank you very much.
DOBBS: Coming up next, the A-10 Thunderbolt was designed to fight Cold War battles that never happened. But the plane known as the Warthog has found its calling in the skies over Iraq. John Zarrella will report on that highly successful killer of tanks.
Also, American Airlines is rethinking an executive bonus plan that its union said wouldn't fly, many people said shouldn't fly, and Bill Tucker will be here to tell us why.
That and much more still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senior executives at American Airlines have decided to give up their retention bonuses in the face of sharp criticism and anger from that airline's unions, which has given back a lot of money.
Bill Tucker is here and has a report for us -- Bill.
BILL TUCKER, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the announcement came after the company's unions were stunned by the revelation of retention bonuses in a supplemental retirement program for the executives. The revelations that came just hours after the unions had approved $1.8 billion in wage and benefit concessions.
In his statement this afternoon, American's CEO and chairman Don Carty apologizes to the union leadership, and he notes, quote, "that management has agreed to give up these retention payments in order to give our employees confidence in management's ongoing commitment to shared sacrifice."
But Lou, confidence is hard-won, easily lost.
Speaking for the pilots' union, Steve Blankenship says the pilots appreciate the gesture, say it's a move in the right direction, but he can't believe that it had to come to this. And he notes that, quote, "Trust has been violated," end quote, in the way that the disclosures were made.
Flight attendants union echoing those comments as well, saying the element of trust has been damaged. And just how badly, Lou, became evident a few moments ago on the flight attendants web site, when they noted that the supplemental retirement program has cast, quote, "serious additional clouds over the ramification process -- ratification process," excuse me.
It would appear this is not over for American.
DOBBS: Not over, and the union couldn't be more right. What those executives did -- and McCarty was right to apologize. He has a lot to apologize for. They're bargaining in good faith, trying to save a business, and that's just utter nonsense.
Bill Tucker, thanks a lot.
When we come back, the A-10 Warthog, built to destroy Soviet tank columns, has proved its worth against those Russian made tanks, but in Iraq. We'll have the special report.
That and a great deal more still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Mike Brooks, our reporter in Modesto, California, has just confirmed that San Diego police have arrested Scott Peterson, the husband of Laci Peterson, who has been missing. Laci Peterson in more than her eighth month of pregnancy.
A body found, which police authorities believe may likely be that of Laci Peterson and her almost full-term fetus. They are now conducting DNA tests. Those tests, we do not yet know when they will be finally concluded.
But at this point, San Diego police have arrested, according to Mike Brooks, reporting from Modesto, California, San Diego police have arrested Scott Peterson. The F-16 may be a state-of-the-art example of American military power, but it's quite a different plane that's drawn a lot of attention in the war against Saddam Hussein. The A-10 Warthog, it's not beautiful, but it has certainly proved to be effective.
John Zarrella with two of the men behind the Warthog. This is their story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The A-10 Thunderbolt 2, known as the Warthog, never in its 35-year history got much respect. Slow, ugly, always the butt of a joke.
GORDON ROSENTHAL, A-10 PROJECT MANAGER: There's another stupid saying about the airplane in the Air Force. It's the only airplane that can be attacked -- or can suffer third strike damage from the rear.
RAUL BENEDICTO, A-10 ENGINEER: Obviously not true. Brakes (ph) don't fly this fast. Even at landing speed.
ZARRELLA: Eighty-year-old Raul Benedicto and 77-year-old Gordon Rosenthal have heard them all. In the 1960s, the men were chief engineers who designed the A-10.
In the Gulf War and Operation Iraqi Freedom, the A-10s have been credited with wiping out thousands of Iraqi tanks, armored personnel carriers, and artillery pieces. The two conflicts finally gave the ugly duckling of airplanes a chance to prove itself.
ROSENTHAL: If it weren't for the Gulf War, it would have been in the scrap heap probably.
ZARRELLA (on camera): Did it surprise you how well the airplane has performed at all? I mean, it took so long for you to really get your first real field test.
BENEDICTO: No. I was not worried that it would not be able to prove itself. I was hoping it didn't have to. That's a different story.
ZARRELLA (voice-over): The A-10 was designed to kill Russian tanks if the Cold War ever got hot.
BENEDICTO: In those days, it was Russian tanks, yes. And now it happens to be Russian tanks used by Iraq.
ZARRELLA: The air frame is built around a 4,000 pound Gatling gun that's bigger than a Volkswagen, and it fires this 30 millimeter armor-piercing shell at a rate of 3,900 rounds a minute.
Raul and Gordon are most proud of the plane's ability to survive after being hit and bringing the pilot back home safely -- exactly what happened over Baghdad to Air Force Captain Kim Campbell. CAPT. KIM CAMPBELL, WARTHOG PILOT: My concentration was completely on just getting the aircraft back flyable again and just really getting myself out of Baghdad as quickly as possible.
ZARRELLA: In any other plane, Raul and Gordon say Captain Campbell would probably have been forced to eject.
It took a lot of years, but the A-10 finally proved it's no joke. As for its looks, well, Raul and Gordon will tell you beauty, after all, is in the eye of the beholder.
John Zarrella, CNN, Boca Raton, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And now turning to your e-mails.
Jay Ziegler wrote in to say, "Your smug and nauseatingly self- satisfied coverage of the most loathsome and ignorant administration to ever afflict this nation is truly terrifying. Can you really be that stupid? The mind boggles at the horror that the Bush regime and cretinous TV personalities like yourself are going to bring on our country. Have you people no shame?"
Well, Mr. Ziegler, I have sufficient shame that I wouldn't call anyone stupid and loathsome, not even Jacques Chirac.
Thomas Monahan of Massachusetts wrote in to say, "I really hate what those liberal idiots write to you about your reporting. It's just like a liberal to want to see you shut off, but I hope you inspire others to adopt your style. And remember Lou, liberals believe that flies cause garbage. Keep up the good work."
Mr. Monahan, we thank you very much for your encouragement. We'll do our best here.
Ted Benson of New York City wrote, "Your comments on the United Nations may be a new low in your run of truly smug and irresponsible remarks on complex international issues. Get a life, Lou, or another job."
Well, telling me to get another life or another job, Mr. Benson, suggests you're comfortable with the concept of dominion without sovereignty. No wonder you support the United Nations. And you can count on my continued criticism of that institution, which has more than amply demonstrated its antipathy to U.S. interests.
Julie Snider of Texas said, "Mister Dobbs, I am now a regular of your program. Your topics are interesting and your analysis is thought-provoking instead of mind-numbing. Your subtle way of delivering your viewpoint is refreshing. Stay firm to your principles. You are a breath of fresh air."
Julie, thank you for your kind words. I just hope I wasn't too subtle for Mr. Benson.
E-mail us here any time: Moneyline@CNN.com.
I'm Lou Dobbs. For all of us here, thanks for joining us. Anderson Cooper is in for Paula Zahn tonight. He's coming up next. He'll be followed by Larry King.
But first, Arthel Neville has the latest developments for us from CNN Center.
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