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CNN Live At Daybreak
Shiite Muslim Pilgrimage in New Iraq
Aired April 21, 2003 - 05:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: A report out today may explain why the U.S. has not found Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction. The "New York Times" is reporting this morning a scientist who worked with Iraq's weapons program for more than a decade told a U.S. military team that Iraq destroyed its chemical and biological weapons equipment only days before the war began. The scientist reportedly led the military team to a supply of chemical equipment, which he claimed to have buried as proof of Iraq's weapons program.
An Iraqi opposition group says it's persuaded Saddam Hussein's son-in-law to surrender. Jamal Mustafa Abdallah Sultan is number 40 on the U.S. list of most wanted Iraqis and the closest relative of Saddam's to give up. The Iraqi National Congress says he'll be handed over to U.S. troops in Baghdad.
Religious freedom is one byproduct of the toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime.
CNN's Karl Penhaul reports on a Shiite Muslim pilgrimage in the new Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqi pilgrims celebrating religious freedom. Tens of thousands from across the country walking the final 45 miles from al-Najaf to Karbala. Destination, the Tomb of Hussein, a Muslim martyr killed more than 1,300 years ago, revered by Iraq's Shiite majority.
Under Saddam Hussein's regime, only small numbers were permitted to make the trip, in buses or trucks. Seventy-two-year-old Abd Al- Zahra last attempted the walk 15 years ago. He only made it a few miles.
"The last time I tried to walk, Saddam Hussein threw me in prison for three and a half months," he says. "They hit me and cursed Allah and the Prophet Mohammed and they told me because of my white beard and turban that I looked like Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran.
Plumber Aziz Shwain is making the pilgrimage for the first time since age 13. "We thank the Americans for getting rid of Saddam, but now they must leave our country and let our people govern themselves."
(on camera): Away from the march in these dusty back streets of al-Najaf, a religious power play is under way. The cleric who can dominate the city and the holy shrine of Ali can expect to play a defining role in the social and political life of Iraq's Shiite Muslim majority.
(voice-over): Two main rivals are in hiding. A third was murdered inside the Shrine of Ali just after he returned from exile in London. Leaders here are tight-lipped on the identity of the killers, but they have little respect for returning exiles looking for power, especially if they're seen as too close to the British or Americans.
"I advise the Americans to stay away from the people," he says, "and let them do whatever they want and not interfere with their inner feelings or thoughts or opinions." He represents the younger of the two main rivals, who himself is a lieutenant of an Iraqi ayatollah currently living in Iran.
This man carries a photo of Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini. He and those around him say they don't want American style democracy, but one based on Islamic law.
Aziz and many of his fellow Shiite marchers seem to agree. "We want a government based on the rules of Islam. The way of Islam is good for us," he says. That could raise the specter of some Iraqis using their freedom to forge closer ties with Iran, another member of what George Bush has dubbed the axis of evil.
Karl Penhaul, CNN, al-Najaf, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: So, as you can see, General Jay Garner has a tough road ahead. The retired U.S. Army general, he's in charge of Iraq's interim administration and he started work today in Baghdad.
CNN's Rula Amin is in the Iraqi capital with that story -- Rula, did General Garner just arrive this morning?
RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He did arrive this morning. He flew from Kuwait, Carol, and he arrived at the Baghdad International Airport. His first stop was an Iraqi hospital here in Baghdad. And he made it clear to the reporters that his basic priority was to restore basic services to the residents of the capital. He made sure to say that and as soon as possible, because for two weeks frustration among Iraqis have been growing, the fact that there is still no power after two weeks of, after the removal of Saddam Hussein has made people, they're starting to blame the U.S. troops for the failure to restore power, saying that they were the ones who removed Saddam Hussein and they are the ones who are responsible for bringing power and running water back to Iraqis.
So the general apparently is very aware of this growing frustration among the residents and he said that he was going to try to work on it.
It's a challenging task to try to run Iraq after everything had collapsed. Basically, most of the old bureaucracy that used to work for the Iraqi government is at home now. Thousands of Iraqis who used to work in government buildings, in ministries, are sitting at home. They're unemployed. Most of government buildings have been burned. Most of government's documents and registrations have been burned.
So it's going to be very challenging to put Iraq back on its feet, at least from a civil administration level. And there is a lot that is needed.
Now, at the same time, the general has to be aware of the sensitivities of the Iraqi community. It's a complex community with so many different groups. For example, the Iraqi Shiites. Sixty percent of Iraqis are Iraqi Shiites. And in the coming few days, we're going to see them making a very important pilgrimage to the holy cities of Karbala and Najaf. Thousands of them have already started the walk from Baghdad towards Karbala and Najaf. This is an important event. It's a tradition that used to be banned under the rule of Saddam Hussein and now that it's not, we are expecting about two million people to converge in Najaf by Wednesday.
And it's going to be a challenge to see how will the troops and the Shiite pilgrims will react because some of the Shiite leaders have already called on their followers to use the occasion in order to show their rejection to the presence of the U.S. troops.
And we have heard from U.S. officials saying that the troops will try to keep a low profile, will try to avoid tension. However, they are providing some medical services and some food supplies -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Oh, things are getting ever more complicated in Iraq.
This just over the wire from Reuters, Rula.
It says the United States does not recognize the former exile who says he is governor of Baghdad. And our viewers may recall some community leaders got together in Baghdad and elected this man to sort of restore order to Baghdad.
Does this news surprise you?
AMIN: Well, actually, the U.S. officials not recognizing him doesn't surprise me because it's so chaotic here that anybody can claim anything. This man came out of the blue, went into the Palestine Hotel and other buildings, gathered about a few hundred people and they were chanting and declaring that they had formed a government.
Many of the Iraqi residents we talked to just dismissed the act and dismissed his move, saying it's not serious, he doesn't represent anybody. And it seems now even U.S. officials say he doesn't represent anybody.
But it's, again, evident of how chaotic things are here. There is no authority. And more important is whop actually gives the authority for anybody to claim anything? This is going to be the major thing because as it stands now, it's a U.S. general who is in charge of running Iraq. While we're hearing more voices coming here protesting, saying they want to be -- Iraqis -- they want to be the ones who are making, going to make the decisions regarding Iraq's future -- Carol. COSTELLO: Yes, and General Garner just arrived this morning so the work has just begun, as you said.
Rula Amin reporting live from Baghdad.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 21, 2003 - 05:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: A report out today may explain why the U.S. has not found Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction. The "New York Times" is reporting this morning a scientist who worked with Iraq's weapons program for more than a decade told a U.S. military team that Iraq destroyed its chemical and biological weapons equipment only days before the war began. The scientist reportedly led the military team to a supply of chemical equipment, which he claimed to have buried as proof of Iraq's weapons program.
An Iraqi opposition group says it's persuaded Saddam Hussein's son-in-law to surrender. Jamal Mustafa Abdallah Sultan is number 40 on the U.S. list of most wanted Iraqis and the closest relative of Saddam's to give up. The Iraqi National Congress says he'll be handed over to U.S. troops in Baghdad.
Religious freedom is one byproduct of the toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime.
CNN's Karl Penhaul reports on a Shiite Muslim pilgrimage in the new Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqi pilgrims celebrating religious freedom. Tens of thousands from across the country walking the final 45 miles from al-Najaf to Karbala. Destination, the Tomb of Hussein, a Muslim martyr killed more than 1,300 years ago, revered by Iraq's Shiite majority.
Under Saddam Hussein's regime, only small numbers were permitted to make the trip, in buses or trucks. Seventy-two-year-old Abd Al- Zahra last attempted the walk 15 years ago. He only made it a few miles.
"The last time I tried to walk, Saddam Hussein threw me in prison for three and a half months," he says. "They hit me and cursed Allah and the Prophet Mohammed and they told me because of my white beard and turban that I looked like Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran.
Plumber Aziz Shwain is making the pilgrimage for the first time since age 13. "We thank the Americans for getting rid of Saddam, but now they must leave our country and let our people govern themselves."
(on camera): Away from the march in these dusty back streets of al-Najaf, a religious power play is under way. The cleric who can dominate the city and the holy shrine of Ali can expect to play a defining role in the social and political life of Iraq's Shiite Muslim majority.
(voice-over): Two main rivals are in hiding. A third was murdered inside the Shrine of Ali just after he returned from exile in London. Leaders here are tight-lipped on the identity of the killers, but they have little respect for returning exiles looking for power, especially if they're seen as too close to the British or Americans.
"I advise the Americans to stay away from the people," he says, "and let them do whatever they want and not interfere with their inner feelings or thoughts or opinions." He represents the younger of the two main rivals, who himself is a lieutenant of an Iraqi ayatollah currently living in Iran.
This man carries a photo of Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini. He and those around him say they don't want American style democracy, but one based on Islamic law.
Aziz and many of his fellow Shiite marchers seem to agree. "We want a government based on the rules of Islam. The way of Islam is good for us," he says. That could raise the specter of some Iraqis using their freedom to forge closer ties with Iran, another member of what George Bush has dubbed the axis of evil.
Karl Penhaul, CNN, al-Najaf, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: So, as you can see, General Jay Garner has a tough road ahead. The retired U.S. Army general, he's in charge of Iraq's interim administration and he started work today in Baghdad.
CNN's Rula Amin is in the Iraqi capital with that story -- Rula, did General Garner just arrive this morning?
RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He did arrive this morning. He flew from Kuwait, Carol, and he arrived at the Baghdad International Airport. His first stop was an Iraqi hospital here in Baghdad. And he made it clear to the reporters that his basic priority was to restore basic services to the residents of the capital. He made sure to say that and as soon as possible, because for two weeks frustration among Iraqis have been growing, the fact that there is still no power after two weeks of, after the removal of Saddam Hussein has made people, they're starting to blame the U.S. troops for the failure to restore power, saying that they were the ones who removed Saddam Hussein and they are the ones who are responsible for bringing power and running water back to Iraqis.
So the general apparently is very aware of this growing frustration among the residents and he said that he was going to try to work on it.
It's a challenging task to try to run Iraq after everything had collapsed. Basically, most of the old bureaucracy that used to work for the Iraqi government is at home now. Thousands of Iraqis who used to work in government buildings, in ministries, are sitting at home. They're unemployed. Most of government buildings have been burned. Most of government's documents and registrations have been burned.
So it's going to be very challenging to put Iraq back on its feet, at least from a civil administration level. And there is a lot that is needed.
Now, at the same time, the general has to be aware of the sensitivities of the Iraqi community. It's a complex community with so many different groups. For example, the Iraqi Shiites. Sixty percent of Iraqis are Iraqi Shiites. And in the coming few days, we're going to see them making a very important pilgrimage to the holy cities of Karbala and Najaf. Thousands of them have already started the walk from Baghdad towards Karbala and Najaf. This is an important event. It's a tradition that used to be banned under the rule of Saddam Hussein and now that it's not, we are expecting about two million people to converge in Najaf by Wednesday.
And it's going to be a challenge to see how will the troops and the Shiite pilgrims will react because some of the Shiite leaders have already called on their followers to use the occasion in order to show their rejection to the presence of the U.S. troops.
And we have heard from U.S. officials saying that the troops will try to keep a low profile, will try to avoid tension. However, they are providing some medical services and some food supplies -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Oh, things are getting ever more complicated in Iraq.
This just over the wire from Reuters, Rula.
It says the United States does not recognize the former exile who says he is governor of Baghdad. And our viewers may recall some community leaders got together in Baghdad and elected this man to sort of restore order to Baghdad.
Does this news surprise you?
AMIN: Well, actually, the U.S. officials not recognizing him doesn't surprise me because it's so chaotic here that anybody can claim anything. This man came out of the blue, went into the Palestine Hotel and other buildings, gathered about a few hundred people and they were chanting and declaring that they had formed a government.
Many of the Iraqi residents we talked to just dismissed the act and dismissed his move, saying it's not serious, he doesn't represent anybody. And it seems now even U.S. officials say he doesn't represent anybody.
But it's, again, evident of how chaotic things are here. There is no authority. And more important is whop actually gives the authority for anybody to claim anything? This is going to be the major thing because as it stands now, it's a U.S. general who is in charge of running Iraq. While we're hearing more voices coming here protesting, saying they want to be -- Iraqis -- they want to be the ones who are making, going to make the decisions regarding Iraq's future -- Carol. COSTELLO: Yes, and General Garner just arrived this morning so the work has just begun, as you said.
Rula Amin reporting live from Baghdad.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
