Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Today

As Many as Two Million Shiite Muslims Expected to Make Pilgrimage

Aired April 21, 2003 - 11:08   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: As many as two millions Shiite Muslims are expected to make a pilgrimage to holy city of Karbala this week. The religious journey is to honor the grandson of Muhammed. It was not allowed under Saddam Hussein's regime.
Our Karl Penhaul is in Karbala -- Karl.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn.

Yes, some amazing scenes today. Tens, if not hundreds of thousands of pilgrims arriving here in Karbala. Most of those have arrived on foot. I'll show you some scenes of them now. They're in the main square of Karbala, outside the Shrine of Hussein, one of the main Muslim martyrs revered by the Shiite Muslim majority here in Iraq, and indeed by Shiite Muslims the world over.

As I say, many of these people have walked here from many, many miles. Some have come from the southern city of Basra. Some have come from relatively nearer, but still may have walked upwards of 40, 50, 60 miles to get here. As you part of this religious gathering was banned under Saddam Hussein. He did allow people, a small number of people to come here in trucks and buses, but he didn't permit them to walk, and it's really in the Shiite Muslim tradition of this festival they must walk here to the shrine.

So in many senses, this festival is the celebration for a newfound religious freedom. But just as these people are reaching here at the shrine, that's their journey's end, at the same time a new political journey is beginning, if you like. A religious power play is going on between some of the major Shiite clerics, but who can control the masses that we can see down here below. And the cleric that can manage to control the masses, who can gain mass support here, will also have a major say in the social and political life of Iraq, because at the end of the day, the Shiite Muslims are the majority in Iraq, about 66 percent of the 23 million population.

At the same time, talking to many of these people here and also to the clerics, they make it quite clear that they've been very grateful to the coalition intervention in ridding them of Saddam Hussein, but at the same time, they say enough's enough. They say now is the time for the coalition forces to go home. They want to run their own affairs, and they don't want the coalition forces to impose any leaders on them -- Daryn.

KAGAN: A couple questions here for you, Karl. First of all, on the idea of leadership, I've read that there's a possibility that while this starts out as a religious exercise, it could end up turning into, there is a fear that it could be anti-American riots coming out of this.

PENHAUL: Certainly there is an anti-American sentiment here. Anti-American sentiment is probably the wrong word. They are very grateful on the one hand for the American help, but they say that that help must have limits, and more or less now, they say, is the limit, because many of the placards, many of the posters here, are calls for the creation of an Islamic state.

As you know, retired U.S. General Jay Garner is visiting Baghdad now with the aim of setting up a civil administration, and the religious leaders here have made it clear they don't want U.S. help in doing that. They're not really ready to accept the kind of leaders that the U.S. or Britain may favor, the exiled leaders who are now returning to Iraq -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And just real quickly, explain to us the symbolism of why the men are beating their hands against their chests?

PENHAUL: That's part of this celebration. You'll see one or two people beating themselves with metal chains on their back. It goes back to the tradition of this martyr Hussein in Muslim history. Hussein tried to rebel against unjust Muslim leaders, and fellow Muslims failed to support him. So he was killed in a massacre in a battle near this site of Karbala, and so really I understand that that's what this represents, that the Muslims are beating themselves in penance in regret for failing to support Hussein more than 1,300 years ago -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Karl Penhaul in Karbala, Iraq. Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com




Pilgrimage>


Aired April 21, 2003 - 11:08   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: As many as two millions Shiite Muslims are expected to make a pilgrimage to holy city of Karbala this week. The religious journey is to honor the grandson of Muhammed. It was not allowed under Saddam Hussein's regime.
Our Karl Penhaul is in Karbala -- Karl.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn.

Yes, some amazing scenes today. Tens, if not hundreds of thousands of pilgrims arriving here in Karbala. Most of those have arrived on foot. I'll show you some scenes of them now. They're in the main square of Karbala, outside the Shrine of Hussein, one of the main Muslim martyrs revered by the Shiite Muslim majority here in Iraq, and indeed by Shiite Muslims the world over.

As I say, many of these people have walked here from many, many miles. Some have come from the southern city of Basra. Some have come from relatively nearer, but still may have walked upwards of 40, 50, 60 miles to get here. As you part of this religious gathering was banned under Saddam Hussein. He did allow people, a small number of people to come here in trucks and buses, but he didn't permit them to walk, and it's really in the Shiite Muslim tradition of this festival they must walk here to the shrine.

So in many senses, this festival is the celebration for a newfound religious freedom. But just as these people are reaching here at the shrine, that's their journey's end, at the same time a new political journey is beginning, if you like. A religious power play is going on between some of the major Shiite clerics, but who can control the masses that we can see down here below. And the cleric that can manage to control the masses, who can gain mass support here, will also have a major say in the social and political life of Iraq, because at the end of the day, the Shiite Muslims are the majority in Iraq, about 66 percent of the 23 million population.

At the same time, talking to many of these people here and also to the clerics, they make it quite clear that they've been very grateful to the coalition intervention in ridding them of Saddam Hussein, but at the same time, they say enough's enough. They say now is the time for the coalition forces to go home. They want to run their own affairs, and they don't want the coalition forces to impose any leaders on them -- Daryn.

KAGAN: A couple questions here for you, Karl. First of all, on the idea of leadership, I've read that there's a possibility that while this starts out as a religious exercise, it could end up turning into, there is a fear that it could be anti-American riots coming out of this.

PENHAUL: Certainly there is an anti-American sentiment here. Anti-American sentiment is probably the wrong word. They are very grateful on the one hand for the American help, but they say that that help must have limits, and more or less now, they say, is the limit, because many of the placards, many of the posters here, are calls for the creation of an Islamic state.

As you know, retired U.S. General Jay Garner is visiting Baghdad now with the aim of setting up a civil administration, and the religious leaders here have made it clear they don't want U.S. help in doing that. They're not really ready to accept the kind of leaders that the U.S. or Britain may favor, the exiled leaders who are now returning to Iraq -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And just real quickly, explain to us the symbolism of why the men are beating their hands against their chests?

PENHAUL: That's part of this celebration. You'll see one or two people beating themselves with metal chains on their back. It goes back to the tradition of this martyr Hussein in Muslim history. Hussein tried to rebel against unjust Muslim leaders, and fellow Muslims failed to support him. So he was killed in a massacre in a battle near this site of Karbala, and so really I understand that that's what this represents, that the Muslims are beating themselves in penance in regret for failing to support Hussein more than 1,300 years ago -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Karl Penhaul in Karbala, Iraq. Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com




Pilgrimage>