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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
Scott Peterson Charged with Murder of Wife Laci, Unborn Son
Aired April 21, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Good evening, everyone. Scott Peterson today was charged with the murder of his pregnant wife, Laci, and his unborn son. Prosecutors said Peterson acted, quote, "intentionally, deliberately and with premeditation." They said the crime scene was the Peterson family home. Scott Peterson pleaded not guilty when he made a court appearance in Modesto, California this afternoon. The bodies of Laci Peterson and her unborn son were washed ashore in San Francisco Bay last week. The bodies were found three miles from the place where Scott Peterson said he was fishing at the time of his wife's disappearance.
During their marriage, Scott and Laci Peterson appeared to have a perfect relationship. Rusty Dornin has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An all-American couple. Family and friends once said Scott and Laci Peterson seemed meant for each other. They met here at the Pacific Cafe in Morro Bay in 1995, where Scott was waiting tables. Two years later, they were married.
Cafe owner Abba Imani says their wedding was out of a storybook.
ABBA IMANI, FORMER EMPLOYER: It was a gorgeous day in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) beach, outdoor wedding. Perfect, everything was just right. And a nice couple. They were, like, perfect for each other.
DORNIN: That's what Blake and Christine Reed thought, friends while the Petersons lived in San Luis Obispo. When we spoke to the Reeds last month, they both said Laci loved to be the center of attention. And that didn't seem to bother Scott.
CHRISTINE REED, FRIEND: I never saw any expressions, or his behavior never said he was embarrassed by that or angry by that. I mean, he kind of just stand back and smile and say, that's my wife.
DORNIN: Then two years ago, Scott and Laci moved back to Modesto, to be near her family and start one of their own. Three months ago, Laci's high school friend Rene Garza (ph) told CNN it was something just to be around them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're like teenagers in love.
DORNIN: People here in Modesto describe Scott Peterson as a warm, likable guy. So did his family. LEE PETERSON, SCOTT'S FATHER: He's just such a wonderful young man. He's gentle, he's kind. He's the kind of guy that's going to pull over on the freeway if you have a flat tire.
DORNIN (on camera): Then came the bomb shell. One month to the day after Laci disappeared from her home here, a woman came forward to say she too had a relationship with Scott.
AMBER FREY, SCOTT'S FORMER GIRLFRIEND: Scott told me he was not married. We did have a romantic relationship.
DORNIN (voice-over): As suspicions loomed ever larger, Scott finally agreed to be interviewed.
SCOTT PETERSON: People are accusing me of some involvement, and I had nothing to do with her disappearance, but people still accuse me of it. My response is the same to all of them, thank you for being aware of her missing from our family, and please do what you can to bring her home.
DORNIN: For Laci's family, a sacred trust had already been violated.
BRENT ROCHA: Inconsistencies with the interviews, selling her car, inquiring about selling the home so quickly. If he could have waited five, six months, it might make more sense then, but when you do it so soon after your wife has been reported missing, it just does not make sense to a reasonable person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's looking for Laci. That is his whole purpose.
DORNIN: From the beginning, Scott's family was ready to step up to the mike.
L. PETERSON: If you knew Scott, as far as him being implicated, it's just a non-issue.
DORNIN: Now the issue is a legal one, but his family hasn't wavered. His parents told "TIME" magazine, "our family is just devastated. And we feel an equal amount of pain for the Rocha family, Sharon and Ron and the whole family, but our son is innocent. We know that. We've known it from day one."
A man seen by his friends before his wife disappeared as nothing but the loving husband.
BLAKE REED, FRIEND: They always seemed so happy and you know, so in love and, yes, I mean I never saw them argue or I never saw him get upset.
DORNIN: A cool and collected demeanor that police and others believe may have been masking a much more cold and calculating spirit.
Rusty Dornin, CNN, Modesto, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Rusty Dornin joins us now from outside the courthouse in Modesto. Rusty, what is the latest in that case tonight?
DORNIN: Well, Lou, when Scott Peterson walked into the courtroom today, it was absolutely packed and you couldn't hear a sound. He didn't look at anyone as he walked in. He was clean shaven, shaved off the goatee that he had been arrested with, still sporting a blond hairdo.
The judge went immediately to the counts -- two counts of murder with special allegations. He replied in a very strong voice, "I am not guilty." The judge then asked him, "are you in a position to hire an attorney?" He said, "I am not." They did appoint an attorney for him. However, we did speaking with Kirk McAllister, his former attorney, as he was leaving the courtroom, and McAllister said he believes the Modesto Police made a rush to judgment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRK MCALLISTER, FORMER PETERSON ATTORNEY: The police had to make an arrest on this case, or they would have looked like they were from Mayberry, R.F.D. They were going to arrest him from the outset. This is a case of we have our theory, don't confuse me with the facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DORNIN: In one very poignant moment before the court proceedings began, the Peterson family was already seated on one side. The -- Sharon Rocha walked in by herself, sat down, did not look at the Peterson family. At that point, Scott Peterson's mother Jackie came over and leaned down and hugged Sharon Rocha and said, "I'm sorry." We couldn't hear anything of what Sharon Rocha said in response. She appeared very stoic, until Scott Peterson walked into the courtroom, and at that point she completely broke down and was comforted by her husband.
From what we understand now, there will be a bail hearing on May 6, and a pre-trial hearing on May 19 -- Lou.
DOBBS: Rusty, the Peterson family has been very supportive of their son throughout. They have even pointed to leads that they say the Modesto Police in particular have failed to follow up on. What more can you tell us about that side of it, other homicides in the area, other bodies found near where the bodies of Laci Peterson and her unborn son were found?
DORNIN: You mean the bodies within the bay? I'm sorry, I was a little unclear.
DOBBS: Yes, precisely that.
DORNIN: Bodies in San Francisco Bay. Apparently, there were no other women missing in the state DNA file that were pregnant, Lou. And that was the one thing, and also, what we do know from a source very close to the investigation is they did have very specific tidal charts of the San Francisco Bay, which is why they kept going back to search that area. The Modesto Police kept going back to the Richmond, Berkeley Marina area, because apparently on his computer, they had found these very specific tidal charts. They had also found some leavings of concrete in the base of his boat that they believe may have come from some kind of concrete anchors.
Many of the details, of course, have not been released yet, and will not be coming out until the preliminary hearing, but as you heard his former attorney say, he doesn't believe they have enough of a case to prosecute.
DOBBS: And Rusty, the charges were rather specific, the time of death put between December 23 and 24, suggesting to many that the authorities there are in possession of some sort of forensic evidence that would suggest to them that time of death. Do you have any indication -- is there any indication of what that forensic evidence might be?
DORNIN: At this point, no. There have only been some speculation that there was some blood found in the house, but nothing confirmed, Lou. The interesting thing, though, on the arrest report was the only indication that they had of where a crime might have been committed, it says "location of offense," and it said 523 Covina (ph) Avenue, which is the residence of Scott and Laci Peterson. And I think police believe at this point that she was killed in the house by him and then moved, her body taken up to the marina.
DOBBS: Rusty, thank you very much. Rusty Dornin reporting from Modesto, California.
Coming up next here, the global spread of the deadly SARS virus. Peter Vials will have our special report. And the head of the Centers for Disease Control, Dr. Julie Gerberding will be my guest.
With the SARS virus and the war against Saddam Hussein dominating the news over recent weeks, we have not seen nor heard much from the Democrats who are hopeful for the presidency. Candy Crowley will tell us what they've been up to, and they have been very busy.
And law and order, Baghdad style. Jim Clancy will have a report on policing the streets in the Iraqi capital. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: SARS, the cases of the deadly virus, is rising dramatically. Nearly 4,000 people now have been sickened worldwide by the virus. Two hundred and seventeen of them have died. Half of all of the suspected SARS cases and 92 of those deaths have occurred in China where the disease originated and has been seriously underreported.
At this point, no one knows how much it's been underreported. The country's leaders are under mounting pressure to do something to stop the spread of the SARS virus. Peter Viles has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) PETER VILES, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): SARS is a global health threat, and in China now, a full-fledged political crisis. Over the weekend, a stunning admission from the Chinese government, previously had claimed only 37 people in Beijing had SARS and only four had died.
But then Sunday, it admitted 339 were sick with SARS and 18 had died. Today, the government increased the list of those sick with SARS to 482 and the death toll in Beijing to 25.
GAO QIANG, CHINESE VICE MINISTER OF HEALTH (through translator): Probably these patients got this SARS epidemic ten days ago or 20 days ago. They were hospitalized ever since, but it was only that they were not factors in the overall previous count.
VILES: The reason they were not included in the disease count, a cover-up in Beijing to protect the city's image. The Communist Party has fired the mayor of Beijing and the Health Minister, scapegoats in the cover-up.
KARL GREENFELD, EDITOR, "TIME ASIA": Basically this is a country that wants to present itself as economically advanced, as ready to participate in the global economy as a global player basically. And the last thing they want is to be known as a source of the latest deadliest infectious disease. This is, you know -- it all has to do with old Asian issues of saving face.
VILES: It is not yet clear China has a handle on the disease. Neighboring Vietnam is considering shutting down its 700 mile border with China. The World Health Organization has a six-person team double-checking health statistics in Shanghai where only two cases of SARS have been reported.
Still the Senate majority leader traveling in China praised President Hu Jintao.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: I give the president, President Hu, tremendous compliments because he took bold action over the last 48 hours while we were here in China to boldly and courageously address this virus.
VILES: The WHO has identified the virus that causes SARS but there are lots of unanswered questions. Why is the mortality rate rising in China? Why is the disease been so deadly in Hong Kong? How is the disease spread so quickly in Canada? And why does Canada have the world's highest death rate from SARS? And why has the disease, at least to this point, been constrained in the United States?
DR. MARC SIEGEL, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: It might be that the virus when it came over here has weakened. It may also be due to the fact that we've tried so hard to contain it. Public health measures here in the United States are very strong. People live a little bit farther part. They don't come into direct contact with each other as much.
(END VIDEOTAPE) VILES: Public health officials now count 3,861 cases of SARS, that is a 22 percent increase in the past week, even though 180 cases from the United States were essentially taken off the list. Two hundred seventeen people have died now from the disease. That puts the global death rate at 5.6 percent and that percentage has been rising. Chief question to be answered tonight, can the globalization of this virus be controlled -- Lou.
DOBBS: Pete, thank you very much. That's precisely the question we're going to put to our next guest.
As the number of SARS cases in this country has been far less dramatic, there are just 38 probable cases, 198 suspected cases now in this country. And so far no one has died from the virus. Dr. Julie Gerberding is the director of the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta and joins us now to discuss her agency's latest efforts to find both the prevention and treatment for the SARS virus.
Dr. Gerberding, thanks for being with us.
DR. JULIE GERBERDING, CDC DIRECTOR: Thank you.
DOBBS: The experience of the United States so far has been remarkable particularly compared to country such as Canada just to the north. What is the reason for our advantaged position in this virus?
GERBERDING: I think one of the advantages we have is that of time. We've been able to see what's going on in Canada, and more importantly see what's going on in Asia, and preemptively take the steps here to really do everything possible to contain this. We also have a public health system that's been gearing up for terrorism and other threats, and really stood poised and ready to engage in this effort.
DOBBS: The number of cases worldwide is growing at a fairly constant 20 to 24 percent rate over the past three weeks, at least. Do you expect to see that rate continue, despite the best efforts of health agencies?
GERBERDING: You know, I wish I knew the answer to that question. We've really just been learning about this for the past several weeks, and until we have the opportunity to look back in retrospect, I don't think we can really anticipate where it's going to go. What we can say is that in some situations, containment efforts do seem to pay off. A number of countries now have prevented subsequent spread once they got a handle on the health care setting and the household context. Other countries like Hong Kong have just have not been able to keep the epidemic under control and I wish we knew why.
DOBBS: The density of population certainly in Hong Kong is one variable, as Peter Viles has pointed out in his report. The United States, is it your best judgment that the worst is behind us when it comes to SARS in this country?
GERBERDING: I think it would be very dangerous for us to conclude that we're out of the woods on this one. We need to stay vigilant. What we've seen in Canada is even a single case without proper containment can lead to many, many other infections. So just keeping our eye on what's going on across the border tells us that we need to continue to cast that broad net, get suspected cases into isolation, and do everything we can to prevent spread.
DOBBS: Dr. Gerberding, a health policy expert on this broadcast Friday called for a ban on all travel to China from the United States, to avoid any further spread of the disease and other places, perhaps including Toronto. What is the position of the CDC?
GERBERDING: Well, what the CDC looks at is how is the disease being transmitted in the community and what do we know about the hazards that the average traveler would encounter. In Hong Kong and China right now we simply don't know where, in fact, the disease is being propagated. That's why we have a travel advisory out to those areas that says, basically, don't go there unless you absolutely have to. The situation in Toronto is not like that.
In Toronto, the cases are still linked to indexed cases. The disease is spread from face to face contact with known cases of SARS. So the average traveler there is not going to be at risk. We are going to alert travelers to Canada to not go into hospitals or other health care settings where SARS patients could be located. But so far we haven't had the public health indications for a broader travel advisory to that country.
DOBBS: Dr. Gerberding, we're just about out of time here. You're not ready to declare a victory and that's understandable. One of the difficult issues for health policy experts, for health care providers and also, of course, for the national media is to find the right proportion between the facts of this case, reporting it responsibly, dealing with the dimensions of it and also being responsible. How should our viewers be looking upon the SARS virus in this country? And I would ask you to characterize that yourself.
GERBERDING: Well, I would say that it is a difficult dilemma. We want people to take this seriously and take the steps necessary for isolation and containment if there's a suspect case. But we don't want to create panic or unnecessary vigilance. Now, I think my rule of thumb is to use common sense. If you're a traveler and you have an illness, you need to get to the doctor and make sure that you're not someone who's in the early stages of SARS. If you're not a traveler and you have no contact with anyone with that kind of travel history or with SARS, then I think for now you can be relaxed. Learn about SARS, know what to expect, pay attention to your local health authorities or your clinicians, but for now take a deep breath and relax.
DOBBS: Dr. Julie Gerberding, head of the CDC, we thank you very much for being with us here.
GERBERDING: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, SARS is spreading in Canada faster than anywhere else in the world except China, and the quarantine in Toronto appears to possibly be failing. We'll be talking with Dr. Donald Low, who's a leading microbiologist in Canada, a worldwide expert on infectious disease. He is fighting against the SARS virus. We'll be talking with him.
And Iraqi police are back on the job in Baghdad. But keeping the peace in the capital city of Iraq is certainly anything but easy and certainly not always pretty. Jim Clancy will have a report on keeping the peace, Baghdad style.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says there are no plans to establish permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq. Senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, will have our report.
There is a ripple effect moving through the Arab world tonight, thanks to the actions of the U.S. military and President Bush in Iraq. Senior White House correspondent, John King, will have the latest for us on the Bush effect in the Middle East.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Iraqi police are once again patrolling the streets of Baghdad. But their methods have nothing to do with the U.S. style of community policing.
Jim Clancy has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM CLANCY, CNNI CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Firing their newly issued AK-47s, Iraqi police moved in to thwart the broad daylight bank burglary in the center of the city. It was a vivid example of how officers have returned to the streets and confronted brazen looters.
With the chase on in earnest, squad cars and officers on foot chased after suspects desperately trying to flee the scene, dressed in athletic outfits. This man was caught and stuffed in the trunk of a police cruiser as he underwent what might be described as accelerated interrogation, Iraqi style. His pleas that he was also chasing the suspects obviously fell on deaf ears.
While it could be argued that Baghdad's finest were being a bit too eager to get back to business as usual, the public seemed fully supportive. They ignored repeated warnings to retreat to safety out of the line of fire. Apparently, no one wants to miss the latest episode of the return of justice to the streets of the city.
This eyewitness said the suspect fired at police, and he yelled a few choice words at him. "You're a thief, you're not a good citizen, you've sold yourself," he shouted.
Meantime back at the bank, U.S. troops aboard a Bradley fighting vehicle obliged the police, and pointed their cannon at the bank entrance while officers scoured the scene for other suspects. One other man was picked up nearby and held at the scene. (on camera): Baghdad police are clearly eager to prove they can bring law and order back to the streets of the capital. They appear to have the morale and the weaponry needed to get the job done, though they may benefit from a refresher course in the treatment of suspects.
Jim Clancy, CNN at the Baghdad Police Academy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Well, you have to give this next man credit. Muhammed Mussin al Zubaydi has been telling everyone he is the governor of Baghdad. Zubaydi has also declared he is the head of an interim council to head the capital city. Al-Zubaydi says he was elected to his position but it turns out no one in the Iraqi National Congress knows how or when those elections took place.
Still ahead, the White House says pictures showing the liberation of the Iraqi people are having a positive effect all across the Middle East. Senior White House correspondent, John King, has a special report for us.
Also, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld today strongly denied a report that the United States wants a long-term military presence in Iraq. Senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, will have the latest for us.
And the Democratic presidential candidates, they're struggling to gain an early lead in the race to be the Democratic nominee. Candy Crowley will have their story.
All of that and more still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
DOBBS: The retired general who's leading the interim administration in Iraq made his first visit to Baghdad today. General Jay Garner says his first priority will be to restore essential services, such as power and water. The coalition's victory in Iraq is already being felt in many other Middle Eastern countries tonight. Senior White House correspondent John King reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraq's post-war political direction is anything but clear. And already there is a ripple effect across the region.
MARTIN INDYK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: The people see what's happening and say, why can't we have this for ourselves too? Why can't we have democracy? Why can't we have free demonstrations?
KING: Religious, ethnic and other rivalries make shaping post- war Iraq a daunting challenge, but the president talks optimistically of a model democracy. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We believe that people across the Middle East and across the world are weary of poverty, weary of oppression and yearn to be free.
KING: It is a message aimed squarely at Syria and Iran, two of Iraq's neighbors on less than friendly terms with Washington. But Mr. Bush's words are not going unnoticed in more friendly Arab capitals, like Riyadh and Cairo.
HISHAM MELHEM, AS-SAFIR: Neighboring states are not going to look kindly at the possibility of the flourishing of politics in Iraq or the empowerment of the Iraqi people, because they did not -- they are not going to empower their own people in any serious way.
KING: There are cautious democratic reforms under way in the region. Bahrain last year re-established its parliament, and women were among the voters and the candidates. Morocco's King Mohammed won international praise for last year's National Assembly elections, and Jordan's King Abdullah is taking modest steps toward economic and political reforms.
But Mr. Bush's talk of more dramatic reforms is viewed suspiciously by those in the region already worried about too much U.S. influence over the new Iraq.
MELHEM: The United States will be in a position to neutralize Syria, isolate Iran, marginalize Saudi Arabia, determine oil policy, determine the outcome of any Arab-Israeli negotiations. So this is how many governments see the American project, so to speak.
KING: And even many who applaud the president's focus suggest a go-slow approach in Iraq and across the region.
INDYK: We have to be always conscious that this process can be hijacked by people who are not democrats, who are extremists in religious garb, who have a very different definition of democracy, which is one vote, one time until they gain power.
KING: The dramatic events in Iraq are being covered extensively by Arab media outlets, and the White House believes images like these will leave other governments in the region no choice but to give their own citizens more of a voice.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: But it is also well known here at the Bush White House that there is a great deal of skepticism across the region about U.S. motives. The next big test, of course, when President Bush, as promised, tries to bring the Palestinians and the Israelis back into a peace process. That effort by the White House still held up at the moment because of a disagreement between Yasser Arafat of the Palestinian Authority and his hand-chosen pick to be the prime minister -- Lou.
DOBBS: John, thank you very much. John King, our senior White House correspondent. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today said there are no plans to establish U.S. military bases in Iraq over the long term. The secretary of defense said an article in the "New York Times" suggesting discussions have began is quote, "wrong" and "not helpful." Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre with the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With some Iraqis already calling for a U.S. withdrawal and many in the world suspicious the U.S. is bent on empire building in the Gulf region, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld moved quickly to quash statements by some U.S. military officials that the U.S. is hoping for long-term access to military bases in Iraq.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The impression that's left around the world is that we plan to occupy the country, we plan to use their bases over the long period of time, and it's flat false.
MCINTYRE: The U.S. currently operates four main air bases in Iraq, Tallil in the south, H1 in the west, Baghdad International Airport in the center, and the Bashur air field in the Kurdish- dominated north. Some Pentagon officials indicated the U.S. might want at the very least to negotiate access agreements with the new Iraqi government for use of the bases after most U.S. troops have withdrawn. The suggestion inflamed passions in the Arab world and infuriated Rumsfeld, who went out of his way to denounce the unnamed U.S. officials who made the suggestions.
RUMSFELD: And I would rank them right at the bottom in terms of reliability, credibility, judgment, knowledge. They are unhelpful.
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld argues that with Saddam Hussein gone, the U.S. is likely to need fewer troops in the region, not more. Over the past decade, the U.S. has maintained roughly 20,000 troops in the region, including an aircraft carrier deployed full time in the Persian Gulf, an Army brigade in Kuwait, and hundreds of aircraft in Saudi Arabia and Turkey to patrol the now defunct no-fly zones. Many of those troops, planes and ships may now be withdrawn, Pentagon officials say.
But given the U.S. has long-term bases in Japan and Germany, two other countries the U.S. says it liberated, there is a deep seeded belief among some critics that this time will be no different.
PHYLLIS BENNIS, INSTITUTE FOR POLICY STUDIES: He was careful not to use the word never. So what happens later will have a great deal of flexibility, and he'll say, well, this isn't a permanent base.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Now, some argue that it's self-evident that the United States will want to have a military relationship with Iraq and only logical that it would want to have access to bases there. To that argument, Rumsfeld replied simply, it may be logical but that doesn't mean we're going to do it -- Lou. DOBBS: Nor, inversely, does it mean that we are not going to do it, Jamie?
MCINTYRE: Well, he left the door open just a crack, and they always can say down the road, well, we changed our mind, but he made a point of saying that this is not something that has been discussed, hasn't come up in any meetings, there's no plan to do it, and in fact, right now, the U.S. has every intention of pulling everything out. He said we've got lots of friends in the region, meaning the United States, and other places that they can put troops and planes and ships.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre, senior Pentagon correspondent.
As the nation focused its attention on the war against Saddam Hussein and the SARS virus, Democratic presidential hopefuls were fund-raising, and they were stumping for votes on the campaign trail. Candy Crowley reports now on how the nine candidates for the Democratic nomination have been spending their money and time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very well. Good to see you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You doing, all right, running around?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, same as you. Hard work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All over the country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All over the country.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the prewar, the war and now the post-war, you have not heard much lately from the '04 candidates, which is not altogether a bad thing.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If anybody here is asking the big question, can a man be president of the United States without a prostate, I say to you why not? We've had a number of Republicans who have been president without a heart. Without a brain. Why not?
CROWLEY: That's presidential hopeful John Kerry practicing his humor. This is presidential hopeful Al Sharpton promoting his alternative resume.
REV. AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know unquestionably, unequivocally, I've been to jail more times than anybody running for president of the United States.
CROWLEY: And so it went at the Building Trade Union meeting earlier this month. There had been a couple of those come one come all events recently, topics ranging from war to childhood obesity. There were some disagreements on the margins of policy and one certainty ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A minute or less, Senator Brawn.
CAROL MOSELY-BRAWN, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you very much, Judy. I would point out I went under a minute on my opening, or close to it.
CROWLEY: An hour, divided by nine, doesn't give you much time to talk.
SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (D-CT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Is this the bottom of the ninth as far as presidential candidates go?
CROWLEY: Apropos to nothing except maybe the hectic pace of the campaign trail, is that a laundry tag on Joe Lieberman's shirt cuff?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you all registered?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got my vote.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are number one.
CROWLEY: That's Senator Bob Graham, aka candidate number nine on his maiden voyage to New Hampshire just last week. Late into the game because of major heart surgery, Graham spent very little money this quarter, but did manage to raise over a million dollars, most of it out of Florida. Honors in the first quarter of the money chase went to John Edwards, who leaned heavily on fellow lawyers to beat out John Kerry for most money raised. Kerry spent the most although Lieberman spent a greater percentage of what he raised than anyone else.
And Gary Hart -- he's still giving speeches like he's going to run for president but hasn't said publicly that he will.
That would make ten candidates. And if it keeps going like this, pretty soon we're going to need a deck of cards to keep them all straight. So far, nobody seems to have an ace in the hole.
State polling shows Richard Gephardt holding a slight lead in Iowa and John Kerry leading in New Hampshire, but nobody has so captured Democratic attentions as to rule out anybody. Only 272 more shopping days, Lou, until the Iowa caucuses.
DOBBS: Candy Crowley, I just can't wait really to see what the reaction is amongst those nine to being in a deck of cards -- given the fun everyone's having in Iraq with them.
It's really kind of remarkable to see how much effort is being spent at this point by the Democrats this early. Isn't this a little unusual or does it just seem so?
CROWLEY: Well. you know, it may seem so but the fact of the matter is the primary calendar has changed so once January comes and those Iowa caucuses, there's no time left to raise money. You've got to go to the Iowa caucuses, on to New Hampshire, and then a whole slew of primaries come and there's no time to raise money so they have to get it all this year in order to be competitive next year. So that's why it's such an early start.
DOBBS: It looks like it's going to be competitive indeed. Candy, thanks so much -- Candy Crowley.
Joining us Wednesday on this broadcast. We'll be joined by Democratic presidential candidate, Congressman Dick Gephardt of Missouri.
Coming up next -- the death toll from the SARS virus continues to grow around the world. Nowhere is it worse than Toronto, Canada. We'll be talking with Dr. Donald Low, a leading microbiologist in Canada. He's on the front lines in the fight against this disease.
And some of Dennis Kozlowski's former colleagues at scandal- ridden Tyco among the top-paid executives of last year. We're joined by Jerry Useem of "Fortune" magazine.
We're going to be talking about outrageous CEO salaries, excessive egregious executive compensation, pigs at the trough, and more still ahead. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Tonight, the SARS virus continuing to spread in Canada despite the best efforts of health officials and doctors. Commuters who rode Toronto's transit trains last week may have been exposed to SARS by an infected nurse traveling.
Dr. Donald Low is a leading microbiologist working on a treatment for SARS -- is also a working doctor who has been treating suspected SARS patient, and Dr. Low joins us tonight from Toronto.
Doctor, good to have you back with us.
DR. DONALD LOW, MICROBIOLOGIST IN TORONTO, CANADA: Good to be back, Lou.
DOBBS: Let's start. After looking at all of the problems that you are facing there in Toronto, is there any good news on the fight against SARS in Toronto tonight?
LOW: Well, I think there is some good news. We've had some clusters in the community which involved an apartment block, a religious group of 500 people where public health officials have been able to trace the contacts and been able to contain it. So that's real good news to us. We've had some other setbacks with this recent episode on the GO Train, which is a transit commuter.
DOBBS: And the commuter trains, the transit, the mass transit there in Toronto one of -- it's a very extensive, heavily used by Toronto residents. How big a problem -- you've identified one person. How big a problem do you suspect that it really is? How many people have perhaps broken the quarantine?
LOW: Well, there has been several people that have knowingly broken the quarantine, which is quite disturbing to think that people would actually do that.
The episode on the commuter train, though, was somebody who was just coming into work with a headache, really didn't suspect they had any illness. And there, we think there may have been six people exposed. She was in the early stage of her illness so hopefully not too infectious and hopefully we don't see any secondary cases.
DOBBS: I know it's awfully early, Dr. Low, but is it your sense that the SARS virus has positioned itself in Canada -- that this is a virus you're going to have to deal with there for some time to come?
LOW: Well, we're not going to accept that. We're not giving up this fight. And I think we still can -- the next two weeks will be telling two weeks. I think we can contain it here. It's going to be some really tough work ahead of us. What's more disturbing is what's happening in China. And I think there we're stuck with this virus in another country for the long term.
DOBBS: In China -- certainly, in Canada, this country the CDC and the World Health Organization issuing travel advisories -- is Canada moving near an outright ban on travel?
LOW: Well, to China, I mean, I think that it's something that we're going to have to consider until we get a better understanding exactly what the heck's going on there.
I mean, we don't know how many cases there are, and is this virus now moving into poor communities where there is no access to health care, where you can't track it? I mean it's just a disaster in China, and it's becoming one in Hong Kong. We're not going to let it get to that stage in Canada.
DOBBS: Dr. Donald Low, as always, good to have you with us. Thank you.
LOW: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next here, we'll share some of your thoughts about our coverage.
Also, if there weren't enough outrage about excessive executive compensation, a new "Fortune" magazine report should fix all of that. "Fortune" magazine senior writer, Jerry Useem, will be here to talk about the worst offenders. All of that -- worst offenders, really bad offenders. All of that and more still ahead. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Well, the stock market has suffered huge losses over the past three years. CEOs have hung on to their multimillion dollar pay packages, seemingly in most cases, irrespective of the performance of the businesses they lead.
Last year, median CEO compensation rose 14 percent to a staggering $13.2 million. Now to put that into some context, during the same period, the S&P fell more than 20 percent. Joining me now, "Fortune" senior writer, Jerry Useem. Good to have you with us, Jerry.
JERRY USEEM, SENIOR WRITER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Thanks for having me.
DOBBS: Let me show our viewers the cover if you can. Can you zoom in on this? Does this mean that managing editor Rick Kirkland thinks perhaps that CEO pay is a little excessive?
USEEM: Well, I'll tell you, Lou, it's a great time to be a CEO right now. You can even be indicted and be one of last year's top earners. In fact the top earner of last year was Dennis Kozlowski of Tyco.
DOBBS: Tyco, Tyco, Tyco.
USEEM: And above him was a non-CEO, his former CFO Mark Schwartz. And if one having the top two from (UNINTELLIGIBLE) companies, strident enough, I think, three of the top six is even more striking in that Ed Breen, his replacement, is the sixth...
DOBBS: The man brought in to fix it.
USEEM: Yes.
DOBBS: And Ed is making...
USEEM: Made about $63 million last year which he says is going to come down sizably next year. You know, they get these sort of golden handshake packages which has become something of a standard.
DOBBS: His taste has become somewhat more modest.
Going to Tyco, the fact that the CFO would make more than the CEO, what does that suggest?
USEEM: Well, I think Tyco is a real out layer. There was weird stuff going on there. I mean their division heads were making as much as the CEOs of GE and Wal-Mart.
I think the bigger story is that of the hundred biggest companies that have reported proxies so far. We found that the median CEO income rose 14 percent last year. And as you say, in a year that the S&P 500 lost about 20 percent in its value.
DOBBS: And their profits. I mean -- market cap is one way to look at it, as you know, Jerry. Another way to look at it is profits brought into the company, corporate profits just setting new track records last year.
USEEM: Right. Well you know, it's interesting, they had a -- their justification for taking so much pay on the way up was we're creating shareholder wealth and now suddenly that stock market is down, they're coming up with whole new reasons. Which is -- I think the new buzz phrase is leading through difficult times. DOBBS: The piggy offenders, Steve Jobs at Apple, $78 million, shareholder return 35. Now, that was the watch word through the late 90s, wasn't it? Shareholder value, and as long as shareholder value was appreciating they didn't -- shareholders just didn't care.
USEEM: Right.
DOBBS: It seems to be...
USEEM: Well, it seems like, you know, we found that a -- while a rising stock markets lifted all boats, a falling stock market still lifts most boats. Bear in mind, that was a fairly lean year for Steve Jobs.
DOBBS: Right. Well, he's put on quite an impressive show there. At least he does have the position of being one of the original founders of Apple. I still can't, personally, I can't in any way justify that kind of compensation for what he's managed to do.
But there are a host of these. You've looked at the worst. Which amongst these companies was a surprise to you?
USEEM: You know, another one that stood out was Scott McNealy, his stock was down about 75 percent, and he got a 31 percent raise to about 32 million or so. There's -- it's really -- it's kind of -- picking out these individual CEOs is almost picking out individual snowflakes from a snowstorm, just the trend itself has become so seemingly unstoppable.
DOBBS: Unstoppable. Boards of directors that in many cases are approving all of this. What is the rationalization now for this? "Fortune" magazine has been reporting on this, we have been hammering it for two years here. And the conference board, Pete Peterson and John Snow at the Conference Board on Excessive Corporate Compensation, it just goes on. It's obscene.
USEEM: It is obscene, it's highway robbery. I think boards do not step forward. And in large part, they're and you made up by other CEOs. As one person put it, sort of like the golden rule gone wrong. The CEOs do to other CEOs as they would have them do to them. So you have this ever inflating spiral.
DOBBS: Well, Warren Buffett has said the litmus test for a company is CEO compensation. How are the "Fortune" 500 doing so far.
USEEM: Well, with most of the precincts reporting now, you have to say that companies have failed that test.
DOBBS: Jerry Useem, you certainly succeeded in this article. We thank you again. "Fortune" magazine, a fascinating article with a very, I think, just a splendid title. "Oink." Thanks a lot, Jerry.
USEEM: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, we're going to read your e-mails. Please stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now some of your thoughts. D.F. Breneman of Montana wrote in to say, "Lou, you are a paragon of broadcast journalism equality, fair and balanced. I don't know why you get so much`hate' mail! Please keep up the good work!" Thanks, D.F., appreciate it.
Mark of Tennessee wrote in to say, "Mr. Dobbs, your new tough guy, neo-con persona is laughable. We have enough buffoons. Acting tough and serving as mouthpieces for the right." Well, my persona is not new. I'm not a neoconservative and I hope you quickly adjust to our success in the war against Saddam Hussein.
Nicole Collier of Georgia wrote in to say, "Lou, you are always elegant, eloquent, witty and direct. I always appreciate your in- depth and interactive interviews. I am a teacher and you're definitely A-plus in my book!" Did I mention that I'm all for raising teacher salaries, and substantially? Thanks, Ms. Collier.
And Stephen Yttri of Wisconsin wrote in to say, "Mr. Dobbs, since you have glowingly admitted that you are biased in favor of supporting the president, you should consider getting a job with the Republican Party." I said I support the troops and the president. Still do, Steve.
And David Lau of Ontario said, "Lou, it is good to know that there are journalists like you who can be accurate, fair and concerned of the news, but at the same time still love his country. I salute you." Many thanks, David.
Bill R. of Connecticut however writes, "Your stance on the Bush administration's outcome of the war is off. `The New York Times' was right. Just because he won the war doesn't make what he did right." No, it doesn't. But ridding the world of a brutal despot, removing one more threat to civilization and liberating the Iraqi people does in my opinion.
Send us your opinion. moneyline@cnn.com. And please join us tomorrow. We begin a special series of reports on association with "Economist" magazine. "The Challenge of Change: the New Korea." Former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski is our guest.
I'm Lou Dobbs. For all of us here, thanks for being with us.
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