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CNN Live At Daybreak
Mass Grave in Northern Iraq Has U.S. Looking for Answers
Aired April 24, 2003 - 05:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: A mass grave uncovered in northern Iraq has U.S. officials looking for answers as to who is buried there.
Jane Arraf has this CNN exclusive from near the city of Mosul -- good morning, Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
There's been a grizzly discovery here in what used to be Iraqi government controlled territory up until two weeks ago. Now, as we can see, this is a huge pit. Apparently bodies were thrown into it. And you can actually see some human remains, some bones that were left, as well as bits of a tattered uniform and bloody clothing.
Now, here to tell us what this might be is the minister for human rights for the Kurdish Democratic Party, which is responsible for the area of, the Kurdish controlled area adjoining here, Mr. Mohammed Ihsan.
Thank you for joining us.
MOHAMMED IHSAN, KURDISH MINISTRY OF HUMAN RIGHTS: Thank you. Thanks.
ARRAF: Can you tell us, first of all, who do you think was buried there?
IHSAN: First looking at the bodies here, it seems that this, they are military people, definitely military. Either they are going to be Iraqi or Iranian. But looking for more details of the type of the uniform, the trousers and type of boots which they are wearing, because we've just found them. It's clear it might be they are -- it's clear they are Iranian POWs and also on top of that, because there's a base here of, a prisoner base for Iranian POWs, it might be they've been killed and been buried here on this mass grave.
But also the timing of the grave, which is based on the information provided by eyewitnesses. They say that it was about May, at the end of May or April, which is the time of, a critical time for Mosul here. A lot of executions taking place in this area and a lot of people has been executed in the city by Ali Hassan Majid.
Clearly, it might be also the people who refused their orders, who were not taking part to kill people in the street. It might be these people, as well.
But all it shows to us that there is 300 bodies has been buried here.
ARRAF: Now, you saw the bodies yesterday from this particular pit. How were they buried and what did they, what did you see?
IHSAN: They've been -- oh, I saw people -- most of the people have been shot in their heads. And also their hands has been hacked from behind. And the way they've been buried, it is without any respect even for Islamic or Christian procedures for burying people, for Islam, from (UNINTELLIGIBLE), for example, or washing them without taking their clothes off them or putting them -- a normal procedure of Islam's burial system, really. Nothing of that has been taken into consideration at all.
ARRAF: What did you think you would find here when you came here?
IHSAN: We are looking for our missing people, really. We, as the Kurds, we have about 182,000 missing Kurds since 1988. Also, we have 8,000 Barzonia (ph) has been missing and from the same tribe, Sinthoni (ph), has been missing since '88, '87. And also Arfaol (ph) victims. We were searching all over Iraq for to find for any track of an institute, to know where these people have been, if they still exist, where they are, if they have been killed and buried, where their graves are. Because people are asking for the missing people now.
We are in the process of looking for more evidence and more graves or more details or any information that can lead us to our missing people, really.
ARRAF: Now, this is the first time international media have been at this site. And looking around, there are kids around. The schools are out, I understand. But there are things being thrown into these pits. There are people jumping in them. What are you going to do with this site?
IHSAN: Well, with this, we are going to send a special commission here, really, first, to identify the bodies and then take them to be buried in a proper way, proper Islamic way if they are Muslims. Or if there is any information that can lead to that these people are Iranian, and more, we become more confident that they are Iranian, we can contact with Iranians or IRC or the International Red Cross or it's possible for, still it's possible for Iraq-Iran War POWs, that they can take care of them and send them back to their home.
Or if our people want to know, to sending them, their bodies to their origins.
ARRAF: Thank you so much.
IHSAN: Thank you very much.
ARRAF: That was Mohammed Ihsan, who's the human rights minister for the regional government of the Kurdish area bordering here. Now, as we saw, this is a huge grave, genuinely, it seems, a mass grave, people just thrown into pits. And they may have been Iranian soldiers from one of those saddest periods of a very tragic history over the past few decades.
Now, a million Iranians and Iraqis are believed to have died in that eight year long war from 1980 to '88. Twenty thousand Iranian soldiers are missing, probably many more Iraqi soldiers missing. Most of them we'll never know what happened to them, but some of them may be buried here on this field on the edge of Mosul -- back to you.
COSTELLO: Sad pictures.
Jane Arraf reporting live from near Mosul in northern Iraq.
Now some home video. A glimpse into the world of a dictator. We have that. And retired U.S. General Jay Garner in Baghdad for a town hall type meeting.
Let's go to Baghdad now and CNN's Rula Amin. She has both stories for us this morning -- good morning, Rula.
RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Carol, Jay Garner, the man in charge of running Iraq, is back in Baghdad and he's here to stay. The first thing he did this morning after he arrived here, he met with about 60 different Iraqis. Some of them were academics, engineers, people who are involved and can help in getting Baghdad up and running. He wanted to hear their views, their demands, their complaints and see what advice can they give and what help they can give in order to restore law and order and security to the capital here.
Now, on a different front, we, CNN has just obtained a home, what you can describe as home videos of Saddam Hussein. The first home video we'll share with you is on his 50th birthday. This is usually an elaborate occasion celebrated all over the country in organized celebrations. You can see him there cutting the cake. You can hear in the background kids singing. They're singing "Saddam the father, he's like love in the heart, as the light in the eyes." And with him, behind him, you can see Abed Hamoud, his personal secretary for years now. And you can see him there behind him, as well as Saddam Khamed.
This is one of his son-in-laws, the husband of his daughter Renna (ph). Saddam Khamed was later killed, along with his brother, Hussein Khamed, when they returned to Iraq after they had fled the country and exposed Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program.
Now, we have seen some of similar footage on Iraqi television throughout the years every time there is a birthday. However, this is an unedited version and it's, you can see it there, it's an elaborate celebration.
The other home video we'll share with you is with his wife Sajida. Usually his wife had been kept out of the TV screens here and out of the newspapers. In this video, they were in the northern part of Iraq. You can see the snow there. It's the same place where Jane Arraf was just reporting from. And it was in the winter of 1989.
These were, are very intimate pictures in Iraqi standards because no such pictures have been shown on Iraqi television before. He's usually alone or his two sons are on television, not his daughters and not his wife. Very seldom were they shown on television and usually in a very official matter.
Here you can see them holding hands, walking, having their own walk in the snow. This also is the same winter when his wife's brother, Herallah (ph), who was the defense minister then, left them at this trip and went to Baghdad. He was killed in a plane crash and there were numerous rumors that actually it was a deliberate plane crash organized by one of Saddam Hussein's aides -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Just a fascinating glimpse. And I know there is much more to this tape. But have you gotten to see it? Can you tell us any more later on today?
AMIN: Well, I think we will be able to show you some more. It's basically home videos of Saddam Hussein with his family. A lot of it is of his wife, her friends, their meetings, their gatherings. Now, you can also, one thing that is interesting in that in those videos you can see his wife. She was not covering her head. She's wearing modern clothes. It's not long. It's not long sleeves. She's wearing short skirts. And this is another sign for the secular regime that used to be here in Iraq.
Saddam Hussein himself was not a religious person.
However, again, his wife and his family were mostly kept in the dark, especially the women -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Fascinating.
And you're going to have much more for us at the half hour.
AMIN: We will.
COSTELLO: Rula Amin live from Baghdad this morning.
We appreciate it.
For an in depth look at all the latest events happening in the new Iraq, go to cnn.com/specials.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 24, 2003 - 05:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: A mass grave uncovered in northern Iraq has U.S. officials looking for answers as to who is buried there.
Jane Arraf has this CNN exclusive from near the city of Mosul -- good morning, Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
There's been a grizzly discovery here in what used to be Iraqi government controlled territory up until two weeks ago. Now, as we can see, this is a huge pit. Apparently bodies were thrown into it. And you can actually see some human remains, some bones that were left, as well as bits of a tattered uniform and bloody clothing.
Now, here to tell us what this might be is the minister for human rights for the Kurdish Democratic Party, which is responsible for the area of, the Kurdish controlled area adjoining here, Mr. Mohammed Ihsan.
Thank you for joining us.
MOHAMMED IHSAN, KURDISH MINISTRY OF HUMAN RIGHTS: Thank you. Thanks.
ARRAF: Can you tell us, first of all, who do you think was buried there?
IHSAN: First looking at the bodies here, it seems that this, they are military people, definitely military. Either they are going to be Iraqi or Iranian. But looking for more details of the type of the uniform, the trousers and type of boots which they are wearing, because we've just found them. It's clear it might be they are -- it's clear they are Iranian POWs and also on top of that, because there's a base here of, a prisoner base for Iranian POWs, it might be they've been killed and been buried here on this mass grave.
But also the timing of the grave, which is based on the information provided by eyewitnesses. They say that it was about May, at the end of May or April, which is the time of, a critical time for Mosul here. A lot of executions taking place in this area and a lot of people has been executed in the city by Ali Hassan Majid.
Clearly, it might be also the people who refused their orders, who were not taking part to kill people in the street. It might be these people, as well.
But all it shows to us that there is 300 bodies has been buried here.
ARRAF: Now, you saw the bodies yesterday from this particular pit. How were they buried and what did they, what did you see?
IHSAN: They've been -- oh, I saw people -- most of the people have been shot in their heads. And also their hands has been hacked from behind. And the way they've been buried, it is without any respect even for Islamic or Christian procedures for burying people, for Islam, from (UNINTELLIGIBLE), for example, or washing them without taking their clothes off them or putting them -- a normal procedure of Islam's burial system, really. Nothing of that has been taken into consideration at all.
ARRAF: What did you think you would find here when you came here?
IHSAN: We are looking for our missing people, really. We, as the Kurds, we have about 182,000 missing Kurds since 1988. Also, we have 8,000 Barzonia (ph) has been missing and from the same tribe, Sinthoni (ph), has been missing since '88, '87. And also Arfaol (ph) victims. We were searching all over Iraq for to find for any track of an institute, to know where these people have been, if they still exist, where they are, if they have been killed and buried, where their graves are. Because people are asking for the missing people now.
We are in the process of looking for more evidence and more graves or more details or any information that can lead us to our missing people, really.
ARRAF: Now, this is the first time international media have been at this site. And looking around, there are kids around. The schools are out, I understand. But there are things being thrown into these pits. There are people jumping in them. What are you going to do with this site?
IHSAN: Well, with this, we are going to send a special commission here, really, first, to identify the bodies and then take them to be buried in a proper way, proper Islamic way if they are Muslims. Or if there is any information that can lead to that these people are Iranian, and more, we become more confident that they are Iranian, we can contact with Iranians or IRC or the International Red Cross or it's possible for, still it's possible for Iraq-Iran War POWs, that they can take care of them and send them back to their home.
Or if our people want to know, to sending them, their bodies to their origins.
ARRAF: Thank you so much.
IHSAN: Thank you very much.
ARRAF: That was Mohammed Ihsan, who's the human rights minister for the regional government of the Kurdish area bordering here. Now, as we saw, this is a huge grave, genuinely, it seems, a mass grave, people just thrown into pits. And they may have been Iranian soldiers from one of those saddest periods of a very tragic history over the past few decades.
Now, a million Iranians and Iraqis are believed to have died in that eight year long war from 1980 to '88. Twenty thousand Iranian soldiers are missing, probably many more Iraqi soldiers missing. Most of them we'll never know what happened to them, but some of them may be buried here on this field on the edge of Mosul -- back to you.
COSTELLO: Sad pictures.
Jane Arraf reporting live from near Mosul in northern Iraq.
Now some home video. A glimpse into the world of a dictator. We have that. And retired U.S. General Jay Garner in Baghdad for a town hall type meeting.
Let's go to Baghdad now and CNN's Rula Amin. She has both stories for us this morning -- good morning, Rula.
RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Carol, Jay Garner, the man in charge of running Iraq, is back in Baghdad and he's here to stay. The first thing he did this morning after he arrived here, he met with about 60 different Iraqis. Some of them were academics, engineers, people who are involved and can help in getting Baghdad up and running. He wanted to hear their views, their demands, their complaints and see what advice can they give and what help they can give in order to restore law and order and security to the capital here.
Now, on a different front, we, CNN has just obtained a home, what you can describe as home videos of Saddam Hussein. The first home video we'll share with you is on his 50th birthday. This is usually an elaborate occasion celebrated all over the country in organized celebrations. You can see him there cutting the cake. You can hear in the background kids singing. They're singing "Saddam the father, he's like love in the heart, as the light in the eyes." And with him, behind him, you can see Abed Hamoud, his personal secretary for years now. And you can see him there behind him, as well as Saddam Khamed.
This is one of his son-in-laws, the husband of his daughter Renna (ph). Saddam Khamed was later killed, along with his brother, Hussein Khamed, when they returned to Iraq after they had fled the country and exposed Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program.
Now, we have seen some of similar footage on Iraqi television throughout the years every time there is a birthday. However, this is an unedited version and it's, you can see it there, it's an elaborate celebration.
The other home video we'll share with you is with his wife Sajida. Usually his wife had been kept out of the TV screens here and out of the newspapers. In this video, they were in the northern part of Iraq. You can see the snow there. It's the same place where Jane Arraf was just reporting from. And it was in the winter of 1989.
These were, are very intimate pictures in Iraqi standards because no such pictures have been shown on Iraqi television before. He's usually alone or his two sons are on television, not his daughters and not his wife. Very seldom were they shown on television and usually in a very official matter.
Here you can see them holding hands, walking, having their own walk in the snow. This also is the same winter when his wife's brother, Herallah (ph), who was the defense minister then, left them at this trip and went to Baghdad. He was killed in a plane crash and there were numerous rumors that actually it was a deliberate plane crash organized by one of Saddam Hussein's aides -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Just a fascinating glimpse. And I know there is much more to this tape. But have you gotten to see it? Can you tell us any more later on today?
AMIN: Well, I think we will be able to show you some more. It's basically home videos of Saddam Hussein with his family. A lot of it is of his wife, her friends, their meetings, their gatherings. Now, you can also, one thing that is interesting in that in those videos you can see his wife. She was not covering her head. She's wearing modern clothes. It's not long. It's not long sleeves. She's wearing short skirts. And this is another sign for the secular regime that used to be here in Iraq.
Saddam Hussein himself was not a religious person.
However, again, his wife and his family were mostly kept in the dark, especially the women -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Fascinating.
And you're going to have much more for us at the half hour.
AMIN: We will.
COSTELLO: Rula Amin live from Baghdad this morning.
We appreciate it.
For an in depth look at all the latest events happening in the new Iraq, go to cnn.com/specials.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
