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American Morning

Diplomatic Fire

Aired April 24, 2003 - 08:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: From the outset of the conflict in Iraq, the U.S. and Britain have said the war is not about oil, but Iraq's most valued resource right now, very critical to the coalition's plans for rebuilding that country. Now, we know Iraq's oil is flowing yet again.
Southeastern part of the country, near the town of Basra is where CNN's John Vause joins us live now for more on this story.

John, good afternoon there.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Bill.

What we want to tell you right here at this pumping, this gas and oil separation plant right here is where the oil is being pumped into. From here, it's going to Zubar (ph), not far away, and from there, to a refinery in Basra.

I want to show you a few things around here. This is a defensive berm that was actually built by the Iraqis to try to defend this operation. Obviously, that didn't work. The British moved in here fairly quickly, secured it, and, in fact, right now, the British still, and the Americans are still maintaining guard at the checkpoint.

We're told that the Iraqis and the Americans are actually working together inside this facility, about 20 percent capacity right now, and they hope to get up to 100 percent capacity in about a month or so.

But I want to show you something just over here if we can relocate our shot. See this black stuff over here. It's oil, and it's all spread throughout this region. And in fact, this geyser coming out from the ground, that is, in fact, natural gas, oil and water. This is an indication of just how bad the state of the infrastructure is. That's coming from a cracked pipeline, and in fact, some analysts say it will cost as much as $10 billion to repair the infrastructure here before Iraq's oil capacity is actually at its peak.

Also around this region here, we're told land mines and other unexploded ordnance. That's yet to be cleared. In fact. On the way in, we saw APCs and tanks which have been bombed out, just littering the side of the highway. In fact, the wells and the pipes are rusted almost solid, in a state of disrepair, almost unusable. That is something which they need to address very, very soon, if Iraq is going to start pumping oil to around 2.5 million barrels a day. This that is what this area was doing before this war. Right now, about 170,000 barrels is what they're hoping to pump out for local use, and we've seen long lines at petrol stations in Basra and Nasiriyah. It's kind of ironic to think that there is, in fact, a gas shortage in Iraq, but there is.

Ultimately, in about nine weeks here, they're hoping 800,000 barrels per day. All of that for the local consumption -- Bill.

HEMMER: And a lot of work ahead, as you have pointed out.

Great show and tell, John, thanks. John Vause, reporting near Basra in southeastern Iraq -- Heidi.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Newt Gingrich isn't mincing words in criticizing Secretary of State Colin Powell. The former House speaker calls Powell's plan to visit Syria -- quote -- "ludicrous," and he says diplomatic failures by the State Department have undermined President Bush's foreign policy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH, FMR. HOUSE SPEAKER: Without bold dramatic change at the State Department, the United States will soon find itself on the defensive everywhere, except militarily. In the long run, that is a very dangerous position for the world's leading democracy to be in. Indeed, in the long run, that is an unsustainable position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: More on the fighting words from Gingrich, from Washington. Cliff May, president of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, and Democratic strategist Victor Kamber.

Good morning to you both, and thanks for being here.

Let's go ahead and start with this. Richard Armitage, the deputy secretary of state, was quoted in "USA Today" saying, "It's clear that Mr. Gingrich is off his meds and out of therapy."

Cliff May, you don't agree?

CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: I don't. And I think that people like Mr. Armitage, whom I have great respect, need to be a little bit less defensive, and listen a little bit more carefully to what Mr. Gingrich has been saying. Hey not criticized Colin Powell. He is suggesting that Colin Powell, for whom he has great admiration, is probably better equipped than anybody else to affect the kinds of transformations that he thinks are needed by the State Department.

Look, under Donald Rumsfeld, we have seen a wholesale transformation of the Defense Department, and it's very impressive. We need to see something over At State department. Bureaucracies tend to get calcified, they tend to get set in their ways. Transformation, shake-ups are good, and that's what Powell and Armitage should be doing at this point. COLLINS: Victor Kamber, I saw you smirking. What do Gingrich's comments mean to you?

VICTOR KAMBER, THE KAMBER GROUP: Well, first of all, I love the one word "ludicrous," except that applies to Newt Gingrich. That is the most ludicrous comment I have ever heard. When he was in the House, most Republicans -- and always you don't criticize the State Department, or the Defense Department or the Secretary of the Treasury. You go where the top is, the president. If there is a fault at state, if there is a foreign policy failure, it's one place and one place only, the White House.

Colin Powell is not an independent agent acting on his own, deciding to go to Syria or Timbuktu on his own. He's going because this is a concerted program, a leadership of the White House, and the idea that we're going to follow the example of the Defense Department, what are we selling bullets and bombs as a foreign policy method? If our message cannot succeed in this world of democracy and freedom, if we can't sell it, if we can't package it, we have problems and, frankly, that lays with the White House's foreign policy, not Colin Powell's foreign policy. He doesn't have foreign policy; George Bush has it.

MAY: Victor wants to take a shot at President Bush.

KAMBER: Not take a shot -- it's reality.

MAY: If you listen to what Newt Gingrich says, if you actually read his words, what you'll find is he's saying to President Bush and to Colin Powell, this is a good time to affect some transformation. Let's understand that we're not selling our policy as well as we should abroad.

Victor, if you went to the embassies and you looked at the communicators, they said, could we hire you, you'd say, yes, and we need you badly. You're a professional communicator, and you know if you've been to any embassies, they're not using the most techniques of strategic communications. They're using old-fashioned P.R. techniques that no longer work.

KAMBER: Then let's not talk about using our Defense Department as an example of how to sell our diplomacy.

COLLINS: Let me jump in real quick, because I want to keep this moving. Tell me how you think, Victor, how does this impact how you run an administration, when these apparent risks are taking place?

KAMBER: Well, I think you become a leader. I think you bring your people into the room, you close the door, and you say, boys, or women, or men, whatever the terms are, shut up and let's have a concerted policy. What is George Bush's policy, foreign policy? Democrats have -- what Newt Gingrich said, and I don't disagree with what Cliff is saying, a number of Republicans, Democrats, independents have suggested our foreign policy is a failure right now. The only difference is where does the blame lie, and how do you change it? It's not by hiring another P.R. specialist to communicate at the embassy level. It's talking about a coherent policy that sells a program to the world.

MAY: Look, right now today, we have affected regime change in Iraq, a terrible brutal dictator is out, and the people of Iraq have a chance for a much better future.

If you can't sell the idea that that was a good thing we did, and maybe Victor believe it was a good thing. Maybe he thinks it would be better if Saddam Hussein was still in power. I don't think most people believe that, and I think you can...

KAMBER: Cliff, all I know is that we beat a third world power with the most powerful nation in the world in 21 days and now the Shiites are saying, America, get out.

MAY: God bless them they have the freedom to say it. I'm glad they have that freedom now. You should be, too.

HEMMER: Gentlemen, that will have to be the last word. I think it was pretty equal. Not sure. We'll check next time to make sure. Cliff May and Victor Kamber, thanks for being with us this morning and sharing your thoughts.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired April 24, 2003 - 08:15   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: From the outset of the conflict in Iraq, the U.S. and Britain have said the war is not about oil, but Iraq's most valued resource right now, very critical to the coalition's plans for rebuilding that country. Now, we know Iraq's oil is flowing yet again.
Southeastern part of the country, near the town of Basra is where CNN's John Vause joins us live now for more on this story.

John, good afternoon there.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Bill.

What we want to tell you right here at this pumping, this gas and oil separation plant right here is where the oil is being pumped into. From here, it's going to Zubar (ph), not far away, and from there, to a refinery in Basra.

I want to show you a few things around here. This is a defensive berm that was actually built by the Iraqis to try to defend this operation. Obviously, that didn't work. The British moved in here fairly quickly, secured it, and, in fact, right now, the British still, and the Americans are still maintaining guard at the checkpoint.

We're told that the Iraqis and the Americans are actually working together inside this facility, about 20 percent capacity right now, and they hope to get up to 100 percent capacity in about a month or so.

But I want to show you something just over here if we can relocate our shot. See this black stuff over here. It's oil, and it's all spread throughout this region. And in fact, this geyser coming out from the ground, that is, in fact, natural gas, oil and water. This is an indication of just how bad the state of the infrastructure is. That's coming from a cracked pipeline, and in fact, some analysts say it will cost as much as $10 billion to repair the infrastructure here before Iraq's oil capacity is actually at its peak.

Also around this region here, we're told land mines and other unexploded ordnance. That's yet to be cleared. In fact. On the way in, we saw APCs and tanks which have been bombed out, just littering the side of the highway. In fact, the wells and the pipes are rusted almost solid, in a state of disrepair, almost unusable. That is something which they need to address very, very soon, if Iraq is going to start pumping oil to around 2.5 million barrels a day. This that is what this area was doing before this war. Right now, about 170,000 barrels is what they're hoping to pump out for local use, and we've seen long lines at petrol stations in Basra and Nasiriyah. It's kind of ironic to think that there is, in fact, a gas shortage in Iraq, but there is.

Ultimately, in about nine weeks here, they're hoping 800,000 barrels per day. All of that for the local consumption -- Bill.

HEMMER: And a lot of work ahead, as you have pointed out.

Great show and tell, John, thanks. John Vause, reporting near Basra in southeastern Iraq -- Heidi.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Newt Gingrich isn't mincing words in criticizing Secretary of State Colin Powell. The former House speaker calls Powell's plan to visit Syria -- quote -- "ludicrous," and he says diplomatic failures by the State Department have undermined President Bush's foreign policy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH, FMR. HOUSE SPEAKER: Without bold dramatic change at the State Department, the United States will soon find itself on the defensive everywhere, except militarily. In the long run, that is a very dangerous position for the world's leading democracy to be in. Indeed, in the long run, that is an unsustainable position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: More on the fighting words from Gingrich, from Washington. Cliff May, president of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, and Democratic strategist Victor Kamber.

Good morning to you both, and thanks for being here.

Let's go ahead and start with this. Richard Armitage, the deputy secretary of state, was quoted in "USA Today" saying, "It's clear that Mr. Gingrich is off his meds and out of therapy."

Cliff May, you don't agree?

CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: I don't. And I think that people like Mr. Armitage, whom I have great respect, need to be a little bit less defensive, and listen a little bit more carefully to what Mr. Gingrich has been saying. Hey not criticized Colin Powell. He is suggesting that Colin Powell, for whom he has great admiration, is probably better equipped than anybody else to affect the kinds of transformations that he thinks are needed by the State Department.

Look, under Donald Rumsfeld, we have seen a wholesale transformation of the Defense Department, and it's very impressive. We need to see something over At State department. Bureaucracies tend to get calcified, they tend to get set in their ways. Transformation, shake-ups are good, and that's what Powell and Armitage should be doing at this point. COLLINS: Victor Kamber, I saw you smirking. What do Gingrich's comments mean to you?

VICTOR KAMBER, THE KAMBER GROUP: Well, first of all, I love the one word "ludicrous," except that applies to Newt Gingrich. That is the most ludicrous comment I have ever heard. When he was in the House, most Republicans -- and always you don't criticize the State Department, or the Defense Department or the Secretary of the Treasury. You go where the top is, the president. If there is a fault at state, if there is a foreign policy failure, it's one place and one place only, the White House.

Colin Powell is not an independent agent acting on his own, deciding to go to Syria or Timbuktu on his own. He's going because this is a concerted program, a leadership of the White House, and the idea that we're going to follow the example of the Defense Department, what are we selling bullets and bombs as a foreign policy method? If our message cannot succeed in this world of democracy and freedom, if we can't sell it, if we can't package it, we have problems and, frankly, that lays with the White House's foreign policy, not Colin Powell's foreign policy. He doesn't have foreign policy; George Bush has it.

MAY: Victor wants to take a shot at President Bush.

KAMBER: Not take a shot -- it's reality.

MAY: If you listen to what Newt Gingrich says, if you actually read his words, what you'll find is he's saying to President Bush and to Colin Powell, this is a good time to affect some transformation. Let's understand that we're not selling our policy as well as we should abroad.

Victor, if you went to the embassies and you looked at the communicators, they said, could we hire you, you'd say, yes, and we need you badly. You're a professional communicator, and you know if you've been to any embassies, they're not using the most techniques of strategic communications. They're using old-fashioned P.R. techniques that no longer work.

KAMBER: Then let's not talk about using our Defense Department as an example of how to sell our diplomacy.

COLLINS: Let me jump in real quick, because I want to keep this moving. Tell me how you think, Victor, how does this impact how you run an administration, when these apparent risks are taking place?

KAMBER: Well, I think you become a leader. I think you bring your people into the room, you close the door, and you say, boys, or women, or men, whatever the terms are, shut up and let's have a concerted policy. What is George Bush's policy, foreign policy? Democrats have -- what Newt Gingrich said, and I don't disagree with what Cliff is saying, a number of Republicans, Democrats, independents have suggested our foreign policy is a failure right now. The only difference is where does the blame lie, and how do you change it? It's not by hiring another P.R. specialist to communicate at the embassy level. It's talking about a coherent policy that sells a program to the world.

MAY: Look, right now today, we have affected regime change in Iraq, a terrible brutal dictator is out, and the people of Iraq have a chance for a much better future.

If you can't sell the idea that that was a good thing we did, and maybe Victor believe it was a good thing. Maybe he thinks it would be better if Saddam Hussein was still in power. I don't think most people believe that, and I think you can...

KAMBER: Cliff, all I know is that we beat a third world power with the most powerful nation in the world in 21 days and now the Shiites are saying, America, get out.

MAY: God bless them they have the freedom to say it. I'm glad they have that freedom now. You should be, too.

HEMMER: Gentlemen, that will have to be the last word. I think it was pretty equal. Not sure. We'll check next time to make sure. Cliff May and Victor Kamber, thanks for being with us this morning and sharing your thoughts.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com