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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
Powell Talks With North Korea as Rouge Nation Admits to Having Nuclear Weapons
Aired April 24, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: And good evening, everyone.
Tariq Aziz, as Wolf Blitzer has been reporting over the past hour, is tonight in U.S. custody. Chris Plante will have the very latest on the story for us from the Pentagon.
We will also be focusing on what is an escalating crisis in North Korea. Former defense secretary, William Cohen, the former ambassador to South Korea, Steven Bosworth, will join us, and we'll hear from South Korean Foreign Minister Yoon.
The SARS virus is still spreading around the world. Dr. Steven Corber of the World Health Organization joins us tonight.
We begin with news that Saddam Hussein's Deputy Prime Minister, Tariq Aziz, is now in the custody of coalition forces in Baghdad. Aziz, one of the most prominent spokesman for the Saddam Hussein regime. Chris Plante has the story at the Pentagon -- Chris.
CHRIS PLANTE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Lou, that's right. Tariq Aziz, longtime face and voice for the regime of Saddam Hussein, now U.S. and coalition custody. A lot of the details still unknown at this point.
Rumor had been flying around the Pentagon for much of the afternoon that a senior regime official had been taken into custody. The initial rumor had it that he had surrendered himself to coalition forces, later became the rumor that Tariq Aziz was in U.S. custody, and that was just confirmed about one hour ago.
Now, details still not coming out in any sort of convenient or usable fashion here at the Pentagon or from the Central Command. For example, it's not known whether he turned himself in to coalition forces, whether he was captured by Special Operations Forces in a raid, whether there was a tip off that led them to where Tariq Aziz was, whether, in fact he was taken into custody inside of Iraq or outside of Iraq.
You may remember that early on in this conflict, there were rumors flying around Aziz was among a number of regime officials that had left Baghdad early on and left Iraq altogether during the course of the conflict.
So, while there's still a lot that we don't know and trying to get details on, and, in fact, there is no official statement from the U.S. Central Command as to Tariq Aziz being take noon custody, we're being told now by a variety of officials inside the Pentagon and in other buildings around Washington that he is in U.S. custody. It is hoped, of course, he will be able to lead U.S. intelligence to a variety of targets, including human beings such as Saddam Hussein, his sons Uday and Qusay, other senior regime leaders, all of whom, including perhaps Tariq Aziz, who may be able to lead coalition forces to other objectives of theirs, including the weapons of mass destruction sites.
So, the storage facilities or facility where these forces, Iraqi forces, destroyed the weapons of mass destruction as coalition troops were advancing on Baghdad. These, of course, major prizes and very important objectives for the coalition, particularly given that, in large part, the rational for invading Iraq in the first place was to disarm them of weapons of mass destruction.
And there's a bit of consternation, perhaps at this point, that they have been unable to uncover these sites or stockpiles so far.
But a big get certainly for the coalition and very important day here at the Pentagon, hoping that it will lead to much more. Lou?
DOBBS: Chris, thank you very much. Chris Plante reporting from the Pentagon.
Major developments in the Korean talks go on in Beijing, and none of the developments positive. U.S. sources today said North Korea has, for the first time, claimed to have nuclear weapons. North Korea said it would prove it has those weapons, quote, soon, end quote. And North Korea challenged the United States to respond. State Department Correspondent, Andrea Koppel has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Here inside China's leadership compound, U.S. administration sources say North Korea's representative, Li Gun told Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly that Pyongyang has a nuclear bomb and would prove it has the weapon soon. Secretary of State, Colin Powell, says the U.S. will not succumb to blackmail.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: They should leave this series of discussions that have been held in Beijing with the slightest impression that the United States and its partners and the nations in the region will be intimidated by the bellicose statements or by threats.
KOPPEL: The U.S. intelligence community has suspected for years North Korea had at least one nuclear weapon, something the North had so far refused to confirm. Li Gun also told Kelly that Pyongyang can't dismantle the weapon. He said that whether or not there is a, quote, physical demonstration to prove this nuclear weapon exists, was up to the United States.
Though some administration officials are viewing this comment as a veiled threat by Pyongyang to test its nukes, others say it could be a bluff, typical North Korea brinkmanship to force the U.S. go grant concessions.
RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: They said a lot of things that require careful analysis before anybody jumps out and makes grand pronouncements on it means this and it means that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: The most recent example, until now, your viewers should remember, Lou, was a statement that was issued by North Korea last Friday in English, in which they said that they were close to finishing reprocessing an estimated 8,000 spent nuclear fuel rods. When U.S. officials went back and looked at the Korean and did their own translation into English, what the Koreans were actually saying is that they were almost finished with the preparations leading up to the beginning of reprocessing those 8,000 spent nuclear fuel rods.
Clearly, is there already a debate going on as to what exactly North Korea meant during the Beijing talks, Lou, and you can bet that U.S. officials will be parsing every word in coming days -- Lou.
DOBBS: Andrea, also reports today said that they had now begun processing those 8,000 fuel rods. Any clarification on that?
KOPPEL: One official I spoke with said, you know, that is yet another example. The North Koreans saying, in fact, the actual order was on Friday, the issued statement in English. Then the Americans, the U.S. came back and said, no, that's not what they actually meant. Monday the North Koreans came out and said, actually, it was more like what the Americans were saying. Now today they're taking it back. So, it's absolutely confusing and confounding -- Lou.
DOBBS: It is also somewhat disturbing that our State Department and others cannot clearly translate what is happening with this regime because of language.
KOPPEL: Well, it's not that -- certainly, I think that State Departments would say it's not that the U.S. translation is off. It's that they're getting very mixed signals from Pyongyang, and this is something that is quite typical to the regime to send out all kinds of signals, obfuscation, the brinkmanship, the -- you know, it is just totally in keeping with North Korea's stated way of dealing with the international community.
DOBBS: Andrea, thank you very much. Andrea Koppel, our State Department correspondent.
The White House today reacted cautiously. Officials said they would more closely examine these latest statements from North Korea before there is a response. Senior White House Correspondent, John King, has the story -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, one senior official put it this way, he said to me earlier today, quote, think is about what we expected in round one, threats, confusion, and bluster from the North Koreans.
As Andrea noted, the administration wants Ambassador Kelly to make his way to Seoul, to make his way to Tokyo, to consult with key allies, and then they will see what happens next.
Officials view this as more threats, more blustering from the North Koreans. But one very senior official said it is the assessment here at the White House that the North Koreans know that they very much need these talks, need these negotiations, to have legitimacy, to have a place at the world stage, and it is the calculation of the White House right now that the North Koreans, while they might say provocative and threatening things, will in the end not walk away from this dialogue, that at some point in the future, there will be a scheduled second round of the dialogue.
That's the calculation here at the White House. But officials say when it comes to predicting what the North Korean regime will do, sometimes it's just anybody's guess.
DOBBS: John, turning to another development and that, of course, the capture of Tariq Aziz, who turned himself in, apparently, to authorities, what's the White House reaction to that development?
KING: Lou, a big smile and a thumbs up from the President just moments ago on the south grounds of the White House. He would not stop and speak to reporters though, arriving back from a trip out to Ohio to promote his economic plan.
White House officials say they may have official statements later in the day. What we are being told now is the White House right now is the White House views it as significant, especially symbolically. A face known to the American people, a face known around the world, Tariq Aziz, a key spokesman for the Saddam Hussein regime now in U.S. custody.
There is some skepticism though, Lou, as to what he knows. They believe he is not in the direct -- was not in -- the direct day-to-day command and decision making authority. So, the big question is, now that he's in custody and is being interrogated, what does he know about the whereabouts of key leaders, including Saddam Hussein, and what might he know about Iraqi weapons programs?
White House officials are skeptical that Tariq Aziz will have top-level, valuable information.
DOBBS: John, thank you very much. John King, our senior White House correspondent.
Former defense secretary and regular contributor to this broadcast, William Cohen, joins us now live from Washington, D.C.
Though these developments today in these talks, the Korean talks in Beijing, an outright threat from the North Koreans, what do you make of it?
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, first, let's get the translation straight. A lot can be lost in the translation.
But this is not untypical, as was recently stated by Andrea Koppel. Typical stance put out by the North Koreans bluster, bellicose, trying to intimidate at opening round. What we have to do is remain calm, continue to pursue our interests knowing now that the Chinese are working with us to prevent the North Koreans from going to a nuclear production capacity. And so, keep the dialogue going until we determine that there's little to be gained from it.
DOBBS: I hardly think the United States or any of its representatives would in any way panic with a represent of a country of 22 million people in the possession, if they are accurate in their claim, in possession of one nuclear weapon.
But what is extraordinary, and it seems to me very difficult, is when one assesses the situation with North Korea. A country of this size, with this one nuclear weapon, attempting blackmail against a super power, in point of fact, and against the largest nation in the world, that is, China, it's next door neighbor.
COHEN: Well, they're in a position where it's threatening to destabilize the region. For example, the Chinese do not want to see a failed state with the possibility of millions of North Koreans flooding into their territory.
Secondly, we don't want to see a conventional weaponry delivered against our forces and the South Korean people. So, they have a threat that they could carry out, which would be self-defeating ultimately and result in their destruction.
The point I was making is in terms of not panicking, not resorting to our own level of bellicosity in response to the North Koreans, but rather making a very cool calculation of what needs to be done. We know that cannot allowed to have nuclear weapons in terms of developing beyond have they have now. The possession of nuclear weaponry in their hands could lead to the distribution of terrorist groups. That is not acceptable, not to the Chinese, U.S., Chinese, Japan, South Korea.
So, what we have to do is to see how far they're prepared to push this, but to let them know that we are not going to be blackmailed or threatened, that we reserve all of options, including military, if it comes to that.
DOBBS: Bill Cohen, as always, thank you.
Later in this broadcast, South Korea's foreign minister will share his thoughts with us on North Korea's nuclear program and his thoughts on regime change in the North.
Still ahead here, the SARS epidemic, thousands fleeing Beijing as fear rips China's capital city. Peter Viles will have the latest.
And the United States goes face-to-face with Kofi Annan over undiplomatic commentary from the secretary general. Kitty Pilgrim will report. And the road to democracy in Iraq, General Jay Garner meets with prospective leaders of the new Iraq.
All of that a great deal more still ahead. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The latest reports from China indicate the SARS virus continues its rapid spread there. Outside of China and Hong Kong, only five new cases were reported today. Peter Viles has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A major hospital in Beijing shut down Thursday. Officials briefly detained our CNN camera crew when we tried to capture the scene. Unconfirmed reports said the entire staff of 2,000 had been quarantined, as China remains the center of the SARS outbreak. Ninety-eight percent of Thursday's new cases came from China and Hong Kong.
At airports where new machines screen for fever, traffic indicates some residents are fleeing Beijing.
DR. JULIE GERBERDING, DIRECTOR, CDC: China's a very big country, there are many provinces there, and it's going to take a great deal of time before we really piece together the full picture there. Whether or not the steps being taken to contain the problem there are having an impact is something that we just can't address at this point in time. There just isn't enough information.
VILES: The World Health Organization counts 4,439 SARS cases. The growth rate over the past week, 31 percent, 263 people have died, the death rate stands at 5.9 percent.
No new cases reported in Canada. Officials there continue to criticize the WHO's advice to travelers to stay out of Toronto.
DR. PAUL GULLY, HEALTH CANADA: There's no evidence of any casual transmission of SARS in Toronto, and every case of SARS can be linked back to the original Canadian case.
VILES: Meantime, a case study released by the CDC shows just how lucky the United States has been. It details a 52-year-old Pennsylvania man who traveled to Toronto in late March, returned and became sick on April 3, but was not diagnosed with SARS until April 14. During those 11 days, he was in contact with six unprotected health care workers and four family members, but he recovered April 21. And to date, no one he contacted has been diagnosed with the virus.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: And CDC officials concede good luck has played a role in slowing the spread of the virus here in the United States, but they also believe travel advisories and aggressive treatment have made a difference -- Lou. DOBBS: It really is remarkable what the job, not only the Centers For Disease Control in this country, but the WHO has done. What we're really saying here is that this disease is principally, in its growth rate a problem, for the Chinese, but not the rest of the world?
VILES: Right. And Hong Kong, but China accounting for 60, 70, 80 percent of the new cases every day this week. Officials don't though how many of the cases are really new or cases around for sometime are finally being reported. So, it is hard for them to parse through these numbers. They have a team in Beijing looking at statistics, in addition to a team in Shanghai, looking at patients.
DOBBS: Presumably, they're more forthcoming with the WHO, at this point, than authorities were both in detaining our crew and taking the videotape from them.
VILES. We would hope so.
DOBBS: OK, Peter Viles, thank you.
We'll have much more on the SARS virus epidemic later in this broadcast. We'll be joined by Dr. Steven Corber of the World Health Organization.
Coming up next, Kofi Annan blasts the United States for its efforts to oust Saddam Hussein. Kitty Pilgrim reports of Annan's lack of diplomacy.
Also, U.S. officials say North Korea has nuclear weapons. The North Koreans say they're willing to prove it. In our special series in conjunction with "Economist" magazine, tonight we examine what the claim could mean for the very delicate balance of power in the Korean peninsula.
And pictures you won't believe. How could anyone walk away from this unbelievable accident unharmed? We'll have that story. We'll talk with the fellow driving the car. He is a legend, all the more so for surviving that crash unharmed. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The man in charge of postwar Iraq, Retired General Jay Garner, today met some of the people who could become Iraq's new leaders. General Garner said some Iraqi government operations are likely to resume next week. He also said some of the recent protests in Iraq could have been influenced by agents of Iran.
U.S. Marines have begun patrols along the border between Iraq and Iran. They will stop Iranian agents entering Iraq, and they will prevent members of the Iraqi regime fleeing to Iran.
The U.N. Secretary-General, Kofi Annan, today said the coalition is, quote, an occupying power, end quote, in Iraq. Annan said the coalition should live up to its responsibilities for civilians and public order. A senior U.S. Diplomat immediately objected to the secretary general's comments. Kitty Pilgrim has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a blatant, verbal attack. The U.N. Secretary General calling U.S. troops in Iraq a, quote, occupying power, and lecturing the United States on its obligations to Iraq.
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: That they accept the responsibilities of the occupying power for public order and safety and the well being of the civilian population.
PILGRIM: That comment steaming the U.S. Ambassador in Geneva, who said the United States has gone out of its way from day one to do just that.
Kofi Annan's words, occupying power, hold a particularly nasty and inaccurate connotation, a direct contradiction to what military planners say.
BRIG. GEN. VINCENT BROOKS, U.S. ARMY: We're still a liberating force, and that's how we are approaching our operations. Much of what we're doing is collaborative with the Iraqi population.
PILGRIM: Despite the lectures from the U.N. secretary-general, according to a "USA Today"-Gallup poll, 80 percent of Americans approve of the way the United States is handing post-war Iraq.
Annan is a career bureaucrat, 40 years at the glacially slow U.N., sometimes referred to as a talk shop, where 191 member countries rarely agree.
Kofi Annan has gone out on a limb over Iraq before. In 1998, he went to Baghdad to negotiate with Saddam Hussein directly. French President Chirac celebrated his apparent success. Annan said of Saddam at time, "He is a man I can do business with." The rest, they say, is history.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: After his speech, Kofi Annan cut short his European trip because of what his office called, "developments in Iraq".
Meanwhile, the Security Council has not been able to agree on when and how to lift sanctions on Iraq -- Lou.
DOBBS: Quite a decision on the part of the secretary-general. Kitty, thank you very much. Kitty Pilgrim.
Still ahead here, our special series in conjunction with "The Economist" magazine, "Challenge Of Change: the New Korea". That special report tonight looking at the new government of South Korea, its efforts to bridge the divide between south and north.
Then, the gloves come off, and everything else along with them. The Dixie Chicks defending their controversial comments against President Bush and the war against Saddam Hussein.
Mario Andretti joins me next. We'll be talking about how he managed to cheat death after this unbelievable high speed crash.
That and more still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
DOBBS: Now, an in depth look at latest developments in Korea. U.S. sources today said North Korea has admitted it has nuclear weapons for the first time. They have been long suspected. Previously, North Korea said it only has a nuclear weapons program, however.
North Korea said it would prove it has those weapons, in its word, "soon", and it challenged the United States to respond. North Korea's admission is also a challenge for the new government of South Korea. That government elected on a promise of improved relations with North Korea.
Tonight, in conjunction with "The Economist" magazine, we examine the new face of South Korean politics and "The Challenge Of Change: the New Korea."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS (voice-over): The narrow election of President Roh in December of 2002 was a surprise not only South Korea, but also to Washington. The Roh administration immediately demonstrated it wants to follow new policies on North Korea. Roh is determined to be different.
The first Korean president not to be a member of the political elite, President Roh is a guitar-playing activist with his own Internet site who even cried on television. Roh campaigned an a platform of reform that would be ground breaking even in this country. He took donations from piggy banks he handed out to ordinary citizens, not relying on huge checks from political interest groups.
CHUNG MIN LEE, PROFESSOR, YONSEI UNIVERSITY: He grew up with nothing, none of the privileges of the South Korean blue blood. And then rose to become a lawyer first, and then chose to be a labor activist lawyer. And then eventually rose to be president of South Korea.
DOBBS: Roh, was barely elected and he won because of the support of those known as Korea's 386 generation. The 3 stands for people in their 30s, the 6 because most were born in the '60s, the 8 for the 1980s, a decade that began in Korea with the kill of hundred pro- Democracy protesters in a governmental crackdown that South Koreans refer to still as the as the Kwangju Massacre.
OH YEON HO, PRESIDENT, ONMYNEWS: Our generation believes that the United States supported here and endorsed the dictatorship regime responsible for Kwangju.
DOBBS: Mr. Ho, says the Kwangju massacre fueled anti-Americanism among the 386 generation. Mr. Ho, him self, was in prison for a year for criticizing both the South Korean and U.S. Governments. The 386 generation stakes much of its identity on independence from U.S. policy in the region. In December of 2002, candlelight vigils for two Korean school girls who were killed by a U.S. military personnel vehicle turned into full-scale anti-American protest.
That anti-Americanism is reflected in a few research surveys. The survey found 44 percent of South Koreans had a negative opinion of the United States. Only Muslim country and Argentineans dislike Americans more. Some suggest the popular opinion surveys reflect a need for a change in U.S. policy.
BILL EMMOTT, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "THE ECONOMIST": I think the experience of dealing with South Korea with the decades of dictatorship probably shaped American attitudes, and also froze the American position with regard to South Korea.
Under a dictatorship you can influence a single set of people the top officials and politicians. Under a democracy you have influence a wide range of people many whom will have local sensitivities, their own interests, their own prejudices.
DOBBS: Some of those prejudices border on the delusional. Most South Koreans actually believe that if North Korea were to use nuclear weapons, they would be directed at Japan or the west coast of the United States, but not at Kim Jong Il's ethnic cousins to the south.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: North Korea and South Korea have been one nation, and we have the same blood. It is beyond the ideology and politics.
DOBBS: But it is because of politics and ideology that the United States maintains 37,000 troops in South Korea. Fifty years after a war to repel the North's invasion of the South. Early in his career, President Roh called for the complete withdrawal of U.S. forces from the Peninsula. More recently, as Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld said that would be fine with him. Roh, and others backtrack. They made it clear they want U.S. troops to remain.
While generations change in Korea one thing that doesn't change is geography. Korea will forever be a small country in a region of very big powers.
DOBBS: Big powers, China, Russia, and then Japan. But what if the big of the power of all were to withdraw its troops from the Peninsula?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think matters for regional security beyond South Korea. I think U.S. has enough resources, enough friends, enough facilities to deal with the broad regional security issues without South Korea.
DOBBS: The question now is whether South Korea's new government, which rode a tide of anti-Americanism to victory at the polls, possesses the character to successfully manage a changing relationship with the North and an evolving relationship with its most powerful ally upon whom it's dependent for national security, and for whom it must demonstrate (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and social independence to preserve its national identity.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The relationships facing a severe test after today's developments in the Beijing talks on the North Korean nuclear crisis. I talked earlier with South Korean's Foreign Minister Yoon Young-Kwan. He said South Korea does not believe it is yet time for rapid regime change in Pyongyang.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YOON YOUNG-KWAN, FOREIGN MINISTER, SOUTH KOREA: If we pursued policy of sudden change regime of North Korea, I think it may -- it may aggravate the situation environment on the Korean Peninsula.
DOBBS: In all of this, one can describe the behavior of the government of Kim Jong Il in a number of ways but this is out and out straight up nuclear blackmail.
Do we have the time to pursue that patient approach to resolution here?
YOON: It is important for us to persuade them that if they give up their military option, their nuclear option, there will be more chance for their survival and there will be more chance for economic prosperity for them. And we -- our government, the Korean Government, made it clear that they had better choose between the nuclear North Korea, and economic or prosper -- economically prosperous North Korea. We cannot tolerate North Korea's possession of nuclear weapons.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The foreign minister said President Bush has spoken by telephone with South Korean President Roh three types in recent months, mostly focusing on policy coordination on the issue of North Korea.
I'm joined by the former ambassador to South Korea, Stephen Bosworth, who now dean of the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University.
Good to have you with us.
STEPHEN BOSWORTH, FLETCHER SCHOOL, TUFTS UNIV.: Good to be here.
DOBBS: The -- this blatant statement that the north Koreans possess nuclear weapons though it had been suspected for some time, and a declaration, what are you going to do about it, is remarkable.
What do you make of it? BOSWORTH: Well, North Korea has a very weak hand. Their economy has collapsed. They are rather isolated, to say the least, within the region. Their one semi-friend, China, has been pressing hem to come to the table. They clearly see that to play this weak hand at all effectively, they to do what they've always done, and that is play with lots of bluff and bluster. I think we have of sort of keep our cool, not overreact one way or another and, hopefully we will come back and have another set of talks. That it seems to me, is where we are right now. I'm not at all surprised by the outcome of the talks in Beijing. I think it would have been extraordinary actually if there had been any other outcome.
DOBBS: And what do you expect to be the next step?
BOSWORTH: I don't know. I've dealt with North Korea myself. I've learned the hazards of trying to predict exactly what they're going to do and when. Tactically they can be very adroit. But I suspect that with encouragement from the Chinese, with a common front between the United States and South Korea, that in time they will come back to the table.
Now, they're saying, you're reporting is saying, they have admitted having nuclear weapons. I would perhaps put it somewhat differently. They have claimed that they have nuclear weapons, which is in itself, of course, a substantial change from their earlier position. But I think we, at this point, have to continue down this path of trying to talk to them, see whether or not in the end they're willing to give up this nuclear program in exchange for a package of security assurances and economic assistance.
DOBBS: Is there any rational reason in the world to expect them to?
BOSWORTH: Well, they've got a very difficult set of judgments to make. I mean, I think it is very important that China has taken the position that they have in recent weeks, and has been pressing the North Koreans to come to the table. Now, your point, I think, is well-taken in that, there was some speculation last week that the lesson that the North Koreans had drawn from Iraq was, don't mess with the United States, it's a dangerous road to travel. Similarly, I think they may have drawn the lesson that the only way to stop the kind of thing happening to them that happened to Iraq is to be a nuclear weapons state, either reality or a declared nuclear weapon state.
DOBBS: Stephen Bosworth, dean of the Fletcher School, we thank you very much for being with us, former ambassador to South Korea.
Coming up next, your e-mails and the World Health Organization warns against travel to Toronto. That has upset the folks of Toronto. Dr. Stephen Corber of the World Health Organization will joins. Then dramatic pictures, a racing legend escapes death on the track. We'll be talking with Mario Andretti.
And the material girl says the Americans are focused on what, material thing, looks, money. The Dixie Chicks strip down in their own defense. Bill Tucker will have the story of the Dixie Chicks as victims. Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now I'd like, if you would, to take a look at some absolutely incredible videotape of the most amazing crash. This race car, traveling in excess of 200 miles an hour, at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, it hit debris on the track, went flying literally. Miraculously, the driver unhurt.
The driver, by the way, is 63-years-old and he is certainly the farthest thing in the world from an ordinary driver. He is the legend. He's one of the only men to be Formula One Champion and win the Indy 500. The man behind the wheel, the legendary Mario Andretti who joins us now on the telephone from Pennsylvania.
Mario, first of all, we're all delighted that you are unscathed. It's just unimaginable. Some of us, even us older folks, would be wondering what in the world were you doing behind the wheel of that car?
MARIO ANDRETTI, RACE CAR LEGEND: Well, that's what my wife would usually say.
(LAUGHTER)
ANDRETTI: Actually, it was just something that started out from idle conversation and my son's team of a sudden it had out of three drivers, two were the walking wounded, and he had several options to go with. And my daughter sort of brokered a deal.
Barbie said, well, Michael why don't you ask dad to qualify one of the cars for Tony Kanaan. And so we had to laugh at it over pizza. And then Michael said, what about it, Dad? What do you think? And I thought about it for sec, I said OK. I said I'll give it a go. I said, check with the team. Make sure that, you know, they'll go along with all of it. And It was incredible. The team just embraced the idea and...
DOBBS: Mario, I've got to ask you, what in the world went through your mind when your car leapt into the air like that? I have never seen a race car fly that high.
ANDRETTI: Well, yes. And I certainly never have either. But the thing that was incredible was how quickly everything happened and with no specific warning because the thing was timed in such a way that the car that I was following, Kenny Brack, had a real -- quite a crash just a couple seconds before I arrived there.
And when I came on the scene with no warning, there was debris all over the place. And I didn't have time to react. All I knew, I was going to have some superficial damage to the car because of the debris, which is usual. But all of a sudden to hit something solid, it must have just been so perfect to launch the car. And all he has to do is raise the front of the car and then there's so much area there that the car, you know, we were 222-plus miles an hour at the time. And so I just became an F-16 all of a sudden. You know, rotating and it was just amazing. I figure, oh, boy.
DOBBS: You've got to have some serious bruises. You feel well? How are you feeling?
ANDRETTI: You know, the amazing thing about it is and this speaks volume for the safety of the cars today, that I don't -- I have a couple bruises here and there. But nothing, I mean, nothing that -- to be considered any problem and certainly I won't have any pain tomorrow for that matter. So I really came away really well. I could be in the race car today if I needed to be.
DOBBS: Mario, would you tell your son Michael, get somebody else to get that car ready?
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Mario, we are delighted you took time to spend a few minutes with us and we are obviously delighted that you're OK and we wish you all the very, very best.
ANDRETTI: Thank you so much.
DOBBS: Thanks. Mario Andretti.
Well from a racing miracle to a medical challenge, the World Health Organization is maintaining its position tonight. The World Health Organization will not lift its warning against travel to Toronto for at least three weeks it says because of the SARS virus.
The decision has angered officials in Toronto and Canada. They say it's simply an overreaction. Dr. Stephen Corber is with the World Health Organization and joins us tonight from Washington, D.C. Doctor, good to have you with us.
DR. STEPHEN CORBER, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: Thank you.
DOBBS: Let's start with this issue on Toronto. I've talked with a number of the people there, you know, who are prominent in the medical community. They say that this is an overreaction. What do you think?
CORBER: Well it's a very strong reaction. It's a recognition that SARS is a very, very serious disease. It's a recognition that Toronto has some difficulties, and WHO is trying to make sure that this doesn't spread to any other countries.
DOBBS: Do you absolutely -- won't even entertain the idea of pulling back on this advisory?
CORBER: Well, WHO is always open to looking at evidence and the best data that a country can provide or that Toronto can provide. And we'll review it and assess the details and the strength of the evidence and always be ready to consider the best option given what what's in front of us. DOBBS: Doctor, you've been at the forefront of the outbreak of the SARS virus. You were amongst the very first of those experts with whom I spoke. Over the course of this last month or so, has the disease followed the course that you imagined it would then?
CORBER: Well it's hard to imagine what's going to happen when it's something new. The possibility was it could die out very quickly, as the Bird Hong Kong Flu did a few years ago. Or it could become a pandemic which is what which were all very concerned about and still are concerned about.
We've learned more about the spread, how it spread. We've learned the cause of the virus. We've learned that certain precautionary measures work. And a number of countries have been very successful in containing the disease. But some countries are still having significant problems and so we -- we're still in a very important position at this point, situation.
DOBBS: Obviously a very dangerous disease. It is also one growing at a roughly 23 to 25 percent per week, the number of cases. But most of those cases, nearly all of those cases, right now are in China. How big a problem is that for the world? Can it be brought under control in your judgment relatively quickly in China? Can it be prevented from spreading further around the world?
CORBER: Well, several questions. How quick, I don't think it's going to be very quick, but I think the Chinese are becoming very serious about it. There have been over 2,000 cases reported in China. I don't think that all the cases have even been discovered, so the situation is clearly different from the Toronto scene.
But as people become very serious about it and start implementing control measures, hopefully it will be contained and won't spread too many cases outside China.
DOBBS: Dr. Steven Corber, thank you very much for being with us here. We appreciate it.
CORBER: You're welcome.
DOBBS: Making wall street pay. Why the nation's biggest banks have yet to come clean.
Also tonight, the Dixie Chicks bear their bodies and their anti- war opinions. They complain about a public backlash all wait to the bank. Bill Tucker will have their story.
And some of "Your Thoughts" including a creative idea to keep all the scandal ridden corporate executives straight. We'll share that idea and other thoughts from our viewers next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Stocks hold off on Wall Street today ending a two session rally. One catalyst, weekly jobless benefits claims rose to the highest level in more than a year. The Dow Jones Industrials down 75.62. The Nasdaq lost almost 9 points. The S&P 500 down almost 8.
The 11th executive of HealthSouth charged today with two counts of bank fraud. HealthSouth's former chief financial officer Aaron Beam, became the 50th executive in corporate America to be charged since Enron's collapse. Seven Enron executives have also been charged. Now 507 days since Enron filed for bankruptcy.
The SEC today held a closed-door meeting on Wall Street's much anticipated settlement over conflict of interest in stock research. Sources tell us a final deal will be announced Monday in Washington. Regulators and research firms promise that the $1.5 billion settlement would be finalized two months ago.
No settlement yet in the Dixie Chicks dispute. Those singers fighting back now about the criticism of their remarks against President Bush.
And the Material Girl, she's fighting her own past. She's criticizing Americans for values she once espoused. Bill Tucker has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Dixie Chicks think the time has come for a little naked truth. After inciting fans to anger and watching their CD slip out of the No. 1 slot, they've decided to play the victims of American intolerance.
But truthfully, that tune is flat. All but six of their upcoming 59 shows are sold out. Their album "Home" is No. 3 on the country charts after peaking at No. 1 and it sold over 5 million compact discs.
DONNY DEUTSCH, DEUSTCH, INC.: When you're a singer, we care about you singing. When you're an actor, people care about you acting. And, you know, as far as what you have to say politically, just be quiet already.
TUCKER: Meanwhile the original Material Girl, Madonna, is out with a new album and a new set of values. Madonna telling "The Radio Times" in London that "we Americans are focused on the wrong values. Money. Fame."
MADONNA, ENTERTAINER: Are they the things that will bring us happiness? And that's really what my record is questioning.
TUCKER: Meanwhile, the CD is not meeting with critical acclaim leading a lot of critics to question whether her "American Life" CD is going to sell at all. So perhaps the new attitude is fortunate. It also puts the now Nonmaterial Girl on the same wavelength as another famous American.
BUSH: The true strength of America is the hearts of our fellow citizens. That's the strength of America. The compassion of neighbor loving neighbor.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: And that from a guy who gave 9 percent of his taxable income to charities last year -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill, thank you very much. Bill Tucker.
When we continue, "Your Thoughts" including a suggestion of a new name for the Dixie Chicks. We'll have that and a great deal more. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: It's time now for a look at some of "Your Thoughts." Del Dravland of Michigan wrote in to say, "You are my first choice news every night. Thank you for fair reporting without dodging the issues." We thanks you, Del.
Eleanor Hayes of New Jersey wrote in to say, "I'm actually embarrassed to be American since we just killed 5,000 people for an unjustified reason. And to say that France and Germany should be punished for disagreeing with our policies disgusts me."
No comment.
Jay Conner of Massachusetts writes to say, "Dear, Lou, a reporter can inform and serve the public and have a biased point of view at the same time. What many in the media may forget is that being a reporter and being patriotic aren't mutually exclusive."
And Keith from Texas said, "I'm one that believes freedom the is most important foundation of democracy. But if that speech is used for no other reason than to inspire a crowd for your personal wealth I find it wrong. The Dixie Chicks are trying to equate CD burning to book burning. The Dixie Chicks need to go to France to live. And change their band's name to the `Chirac Chicks'." Well, I don't know, Keith. It's when they go overseas they seem to get in a lot of trouble.
And John Boyes of Colorado wrote to say, "Perhaps it's time for the SEC to issue some playing cards with the faces of corporate crooks. Maybe Kennyboy, Dennis, HealthSouth's exec, etc. And maybe another set for over paid execs." I think the Corporate Crime Watch has the tally at 50. Just a few more and we'll have a full deck.
We appreciate "Your Thoughts" and thank you for sharing them with us. I'm Lou Dobbs. Thanks for being with us here. For all of us, good night from New York City.
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