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CNN Live Today
Tests on Chemicals Found in Iraq Continuing
Aired April 28, 2003 - 11:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The new Iraq, and the search for weapons of mass destruction. The U.S. is conducting additional tests now on substances found in northern Iraq after some mixed results on initial testing. Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, joins us now live from Bai'ji. That is in northern Iraq -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Leon, it seems that this isn't the first time there have been mixed tests from a suspected chemical agent. So far, one barrel from 14 barrels discovered just outside this small town about 130 miles north of Baghdad, the small town of Bai'ji, one of those barrels was tested. The first set of tests showed that there was a presence of cyclosarin, a nerve agent. There was also the presence of a blister agent, mustard gas, and a presence of another unknown agent. A second team, the sensitive site team, the next level up, if you will, were called in. Their response (AUDIO GAP) conferred the first set of results, barring one test. One test they did proved inconclusive (AUDIO GAP)...
HARRIS: I apologize for that...
ROBERTSON: So far (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to be two sets of results that are positive, one set of results that have been negative. Further tests are being done both here in Iraq and in the United States. Samples have been sent back to the United States for further testing.
What makes this site different from sites that have already been visited and inspected and suspected of having -- being used for chemical weapons is that it's a remote site. It is not an industrial site. This is a military setup in a field very close to the barrels of suspected chemical agents, missiles, and two mobile chemical laboratories.
Now, members of the first squadron of the 10th cavalry who performed the first test here say that they believe these mobile chemical laboratories could be used for mixing chemicals. But at this stage, there still is a question mark whether or not the barrels here do contain any chemical agent -- Leon.
HARRIS: Thank you very much, Nic. Nic Robertson reporting live for us there by telephone from Bai'ji in northern Iraq, and we'll continue to follow that story throughout the day here on the network, and once Nic gets more word on definitive testing of those chemicals that were found there, we'll have that news for you right here. Now, that actually may be linked in part to our next story, because today is Saddam Hussein's 66th birthday. And the lingering question right now is, is he alive to mark that occasion, and is he going to use this occasion to actually use any chemical weapons?
Well, according to "USA Today" a top Iraqi official in U.S. custody claims that Saddam did survive the two air strikes that targeted him.
Joining us now to talk about Saddam's status is Ken Pollack. He is a CNN analyst and director of the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution -- good to see you again, Ken.
There is lots of talk over the weekend about whether or not Saddam Hussein is still alive. As we just saw -- as we just learned over the weekend, Tariq Aziz, one of top figures in the Iraqi government structure for some time is talking now to the U.S., and he is saying that Saddam Hussein is alive. What do you make of that?
KENNETH POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Well, it's entirely possible. There have been all kinds of reports that Saddam is, in fact, alive. But again, I think we have to take Tariq Aziz's claims with a few grains of salt. What we have seen from all of the senior Iraqi officials is that as they are going into captivity, they are repeating the regime's propaganda line.
In part, I think all of them are quite nervous about the possibility of war crimes trials, and they think the best thing is just stick to the same line. In part it may be that they are still concerned that Saddam will have a pay of reaching out and inflicting harm on them, even while they are in U.S. custody. After all, these are people who have lived under this regime for 34 years, and they are terrified of Saddam's ability to reach out, to kill people, even at great distances. So we need to be careful about anything that Tariq Aziz tells us just yet.
HARRIS: So you are still saying and still thinking that there people are still under Saddam's sway, even though he is basically off the stage right now. Now, what do you make, then, of what we are hearing from the Bush administration, where they are actually being a bit nonchalant about whether or not Saddam Hussein is alive or dead?
POLLACK: Well, I think that that's the right tack for the administration to take, and their job is somewhat different. Their job is to reassure, in particular, the Iraqi people, that Saddam Hussein simply is no longer a threat to them. That whether he is alive or dead, he can't come back to regain power. That's critical. It also happens to be correct, in the sense that whether or not Saddam Hussein is alive or dead, it doesn't really matter because the chance that he is going to be able to regain power and really have some kind of an influence on the Iraqi people is kind of marginal.
HARRIS: All right. Then, what do you think about this date? Saddam Hussein's 66th birthday? We know that in the past, this has been marked by an entire week of very public celebrations there. If nothing happens at all this week, if not just today, in commemoration of his birthday, by him or some other loyalists, doesn't that go a long way toward easing the minds of any -- I'm sorry, government officials that may still be out there, waiting in the wings to come out?
POLLACK: Yes. And I think you're getting at an important point, Leon, which is that if Saddam is alive, today being his birthday, he probably will try -- he probably would want to make some kind of a demonstration that he is still alive as a way of sending a message to his loyalists to keep resisting the Americans, and a message to the Iraqi people that he is not gone yet, and he can still threaten them. That said, if he's not able to make some kind of a statement, if he's not able to get loyalists to mount some kind of an attack, we shouldn't necessarily take that as a sign that he is dead. It may simply be that he is distracted. Clearly, if he is alive, he is on the run, and he may just have more important things to do than to try to stage some kind of an attack.
HARRIS: Well, we're watching video right now that was actually confiscated sometime last week. This is some of the home videos that were found in one of the palaces there. This is from, we believe, Saddam's 50th birthday celebration. Ken, what about in the minds of regular Iraqi citizens right now? If nothing happens today, what happens in their minds?
POLLACK: Well, certainly if nothing happens today, it will help the process. It is probably something that the Iraqis are looking for right now. Does Saddam mount some kind of an attack? This would obviously be the kind of day that he would try to do so. If it passes without an attack, that will help them. It will help to reassure them. But what we found, Leon, in other cases, in Romania, in the former Soviet Union, in other places where they have had these kind of horrible, totalitarian leaders, what we have found is that it takes years and years for people who are reared under that system to really be able to shed the paranoia and the fear that they developed as kind of a survival mechanism from the time living under their dictators.
HARRIS: All right. Finally, Ken, real quickly, if you can, comment for me on this word that we're getting about Ahmed Chalabi, the Iraqi National Congress figure, who is jockeying right now for position to become the next leader in that country. He is saying that his free Iraqi forces actually have been tracking Saddam. They have got some information on him. What do you make of that?
POLLACK: Entirely possible. Leon, over the years, we have got some very good information from the Iraqi National Congress, but we also got some very bad information from the Iraqi National Congress. Them saying that they know where Saddam is shouldn't necessarily make us believe that they do, but we also shouldn't discount it.
HARRIS: Ken Pollack in Washington. Thank you very much, Ken.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 28, 2003 - 11:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The new Iraq, and the search for weapons of mass destruction. The U.S. is conducting additional tests now on substances found in northern Iraq after some mixed results on initial testing. Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, joins us now live from Bai'ji. That is in northern Iraq -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Leon, it seems that this isn't the first time there have been mixed tests from a suspected chemical agent. So far, one barrel from 14 barrels discovered just outside this small town about 130 miles north of Baghdad, the small town of Bai'ji, one of those barrels was tested. The first set of tests showed that there was a presence of cyclosarin, a nerve agent. There was also the presence of a blister agent, mustard gas, and a presence of another unknown agent. A second team, the sensitive site team, the next level up, if you will, were called in. Their response (AUDIO GAP) conferred the first set of results, barring one test. One test they did proved inconclusive (AUDIO GAP)...
HARRIS: I apologize for that...
ROBERTSON: So far (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to be two sets of results that are positive, one set of results that have been negative. Further tests are being done both here in Iraq and in the United States. Samples have been sent back to the United States for further testing.
What makes this site different from sites that have already been visited and inspected and suspected of having -- being used for chemical weapons is that it's a remote site. It is not an industrial site. This is a military setup in a field very close to the barrels of suspected chemical agents, missiles, and two mobile chemical laboratories.
Now, members of the first squadron of the 10th cavalry who performed the first test here say that they believe these mobile chemical laboratories could be used for mixing chemicals. But at this stage, there still is a question mark whether or not the barrels here do contain any chemical agent -- Leon.
HARRIS: Thank you very much, Nic. Nic Robertson reporting live for us there by telephone from Bai'ji in northern Iraq, and we'll continue to follow that story throughout the day here on the network, and once Nic gets more word on definitive testing of those chemicals that were found there, we'll have that news for you right here. Now, that actually may be linked in part to our next story, because today is Saddam Hussein's 66th birthday. And the lingering question right now is, is he alive to mark that occasion, and is he going to use this occasion to actually use any chemical weapons?
Well, according to "USA Today" a top Iraqi official in U.S. custody claims that Saddam did survive the two air strikes that targeted him.
Joining us now to talk about Saddam's status is Ken Pollack. He is a CNN analyst and director of the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution -- good to see you again, Ken.
There is lots of talk over the weekend about whether or not Saddam Hussein is still alive. As we just saw -- as we just learned over the weekend, Tariq Aziz, one of top figures in the Iraqi government structure for some time is talking now to the U.S., and he is saying that Saddam Hussein is alive. What do you make of that?
KENNETH POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Well, it's entirely possible. There have been all kinds of reports that Saddam is, in fact, alive. But again, I think we have to take Tariq Aziz's claims with a few grains of salt. What we have seen from all of the senior Iraqi officials is that as they are going into captivity, they are repeating the regime's propaganda line.
In part, I think all of them are quite nervous about the possibility of war crimes trials, and they think the best thing is just stick to the same line. In part it may be that they are still concerned that Saddam will have a pay of reaching out and inflicting harm on them, even while they are in U.S. custody. After all, these are people who have lived under this regime for 34 years, and they are terrified of Saddam's ability to reach out, to kill people, even at great distances. So we need to be careful about anything that Tariq Aziz tells us just yet.
HARRIS: So you are still saying and still thinking that there people are still under Saddam's sway, even though he is basically off the stage right now. Now, what do you make, then, of what we are hearing from the Bush administration, where they are actually being a bit nonchalant about whether or not Saddam Hussein is alive or dead?
POLLACK: Well, I think that that's the right tack for the administration to take, and their job is somewhat different. Their job is to reassure, in particular, the Iraqi people, that Saddam Hussein simply is no longer a threat to them. That whether he is alive or dead, he can't come back to regain power. That's critical. It also happens to be correct, in the sense that whether or not Saddam Hussein is alive or dead, it doesn't really matter because the chance that he is going to be able to regain power and really have some kind of an influence on the Iraqi people is kind of marginal.
HARRIS: All right. Then, what do you think about this date? Saddam Hussein's 66th birthday? We know that in the past, this has been marked by an entire week of very public celebrations there. If nothing happens at all this week, if not just today, in commemoration of his birthday, by him or some other loyalists, doesn't that go a long way toward easing the minds of any -- I'm sorry, government officials that may still be out there, waiting in the wings to come out?
POLLACK: Yes. And I think you're getting at an important point, Leon, which is that if Saddam is alive, today being his birthday, he probably will try -- he probably would want to make some kind of a demonstration that he is still alive as a way of sending a message to his loyalists to keep resisting the Americans, and a message to the Iraqi people that he is not gone yet, and he can still threaten them. That said, if he's not able to make some kind of a statement, if he's not able to get loyalists to mount some kind of an attack, we shouldn't necessarily take that as a sign that he is dead. It may simply be that he is distracted. Clearly, if he is alive, he is on the run, and he may just have more important things to do than to try to stage some kind of an attack.
HARRIS: Well, we're watching video right now that was actually confiscated sometime last week. This is some of the home videos that were found in one of the palaces there. This is from, we believe, Saddam's 50th birthday celebration. Ken, what about in the minds of regular Iraqi citizens right now? If nothing happens today, what happens in their minds?
POLLACK: Well, certainly if nothing happens today, it will help the process. It is probably something that the Iraqis are looking for right now. Does Saddam mount some kind of an attack? This would obviously be the kind of day that he would try to do so. If it passes without an attack, that will help them. It will help to reassure them. But what we found, Leon, in other cases, in Romania, in the former Soviet Union, in other places where they have had these kind of horrible, totalitarian leaders, what we have found is that it takes years and years for people who are reared under that system to really be able to shed the paranoia and the fear that they developed as kind of a survival mechanism from the time living under their dictators.
HARRIS: All right. Finally, Ken, real quickly, if you can, comment for me on this word that we're getting about Ahmed Chalabi, the Iraqi National Congress figure, who is jockeying right now for position to become the next leader in that country. He is saying that his free Iraqi forces actually have been tracking Saddam. They have got some information on him. What do you make of that?
POLLACK: Entirely possible. Leon, over the years, we have got some very good information from the Iraqi National Congress, but we also got some very bad information from the Iraqi National Congress. Them saying that they know where Saddam is shouldn't necessarily make us believe that they do, but we also shouldn't discount it.
HARRIS: Ken Pollack in Washington. Thank you very much, Ken.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
