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American Morning
Gallic Grudge
Aired April 28, 2003 - 08:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The fighting in Iraq may be over for the most part, but there seems to be no fall, currently anyway, in the icy relationships developed between the U.S. and Paris, the leading opponent of the U.S.-led war. During an interview last week, President Bush says he does not envision a visit by French President Jacques Chirac to the ranch in Crawford, Texas anytime soon. So then, what consequences could the current rift pose? Jeff Greenfield checks in on that. Nice to see you. Good morning. Mon amie.
The Russians were against the war, the Germans were against this war, the French well opposed as well.
Why does it seem like the focus continues to come back on Paris?
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Well, part of the reason, and I don't mean to be flip about this, I think really is cultural. When Americans think of snobbism, or European condescension, they always think of the French. They are the ones that mock our attempt to speak their language. They are the ones who intimidate us about food and wine. And I believe there is an instinctive populism toward our eagerness to stick it to those folks.
Also there is the idea that the French won't fight their own battles, that they're cowards when they face aggression. That's not entirely true, but it is not part of American folklore. And the most serious side of this is that the French have been, inconstant allies, if that's the right word, for a very long time. You've got to go back more than 40 years to Charles De Gaulle, who was forever trying to pull Europe away from the grip of the United States. And the while the current president, Chirac, was supportive in Afghanistan. The feeling that his government was playing fast and loose with the United States, blindsiding Secretary of State Colin Powell at a meeting shortly before the war, plays a role here, and just yesterday, the "Sunday Times of London" yesterday reported that the French were keeping Saddam's government informed about its dealings with U.S. officials. That's not likely to help.
The serious issue here is that the French have a very big economic stake in this matter. Iraq owes French companies an estimated $5 billion, and that's probably the tip of the iceberg. That makes potential U.S. sanctions against France very significant, as would ruling out French participation in the reconstruction.
HEMMER: So there's not going to be a visit to the ranch in Crawford, Texas. What could the U.S. do to harm France, economically?
GREENFIELD: I don't think Chirac is worried too much about missing the cuisine of Crawford, Texas.
HEMMER: Good barbecue.
GREENFIELD: But there is a very real question here under international law about whether a new Iraqi government has to pay off the debts that Saddam incurred. These so-called odious debts incurred by a dictator stealing his country's money, there's a debate whether that has to be paid, or whether creditors, like the French, should have known they were dealing with a rogue leader.
So you can see the point, if the United States encouraging the new Iraqi government to repudiate those debts, French companies and possibly other French individuals, and even maybe the government, could be out billions of dollars, and as I said, if they're vetoed in reconstruction efforts, that's going to cost French companies billions more.
HEMMER: I wonder if there is any domestic side to punishing the French?
GREENFIELD: You know, what I think it may do is feed into these stories we're reading, Bill, about these growing feud between Donald Rumsfeld Defense Department and Colin Powell's State Department. You remember last week, former House speaker Newt Gingrich, who was an old friend of Rumsfeld, gave an extraordinary tough speech that was a very thinly veiled attack on Colin Powell. Things got so rough that Colin Powell's deputy, Richard Armitage publicly said, and this is a quote, "It's now clear that Newt is off his meds and out of therapy." Usually, diplomats don't talk that way.
So any idea that the French are going to be completely cut out may bother the State Department, because after all, their job is so soothe ruffled international feathers, and that may just feed into this Defense Department, State Department fight about who runs Iraq and how.
HEMMER: I'm reading a really good back by Con Coughlin right now, "The Secret Life of Saddam Hussein." Going back to the 1970s, he details in great detail how Jacques Chirac was the point man for any business deals that went with Baghdad, went with Iraq and went with Saddam Hussein.
GREENFIELD: Yes, we have our own embarrassments back in the '80s, when the United States was backing Saddam against Iran, but you're quite right, I mean, if the French's ties to Saddam, and Chirac in particular are going to be -- you know, what papers are found in the headquarters of the Baathist Party and Saddam's palaces, this could prove to be a long-term story.
HEMMER: Merci, Jeffrey. Have a good Monday.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 28, 2003 - 08:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The fighting in Iraq may be over for the most part, but there seems to be no fall, currently anyway, in the icy relationships developed between the U.S. and Paris, the leading opponent of the U.S.-led war. During an interview last week, President Bush says he does not envision a visit by French President Jacques Chirac to the ranch in Crawford, Texas anytime soon. So then, what consequences could the current rift pose? Jeff Greenfield checks in on that. Nice to see you. Good morning. Mon amie.
The Russians were against the war, the Germans were against this war, the French well opposed as well.
Why does it seem like the focus continues to come back on Paris?
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Well, part of the reason, and I don't mean to be flip about this, I think really is cultural. When Americans think of snobbism, or European condescension, they always think of the French. They are the ones that mock our attempt to speak their language. They are the ones who intimidate us about food and wine. And I believe there is an instinctive populism toward our eagerness to stick it to those folks.
Also there is the idea that the French won't fight their own battles, that they're cowards when they face aggression. That's not entirely true, but it is not part of American folklore. And the most serious side of this is that the French have been, inconstant allies, if that's the right word, for a very long time. You've got to go back more than 40 years to Charles De Gaulle, who was forever trying to pull Europe away from the grip of the United States. And the while the current president, Chirac, was supportive in Afghanistan. The feeling that his government was playing fast and loose with the United States, blindsiding Secretary of State Colin Powell at a meeting shortly before the war, plays a role here, and just yesterday, the "Sunday Times of London" yesterday reported that the French were keeping Saddam's government informed about its dealings with U.S. officials. That's not likely to help.
The serious issue here is that the French have a very big economic stake in this matter. Iraq owes French companies an estimated $5 billion, and that's probably the tip of the iceberg. That makes potential U.S. sanctions against France very significant, as would ruling out French participation in the reconstruction.
HEMMER: So there's not going to be a visit to the ranch in Crawford, Texas. What could the U.S. do to harm France, economically?
GREENFIELD: I don't think Chirac is worried too much about missing the cuisine of Crawford, Texas.
HEMMER: Good barbecue.
GREENFIELD: But there is a very real question here under international law about whether a new Iraqi government has to pay off the debts that Saddam incurred. These so-called odious debts incurred by a dictator stealing his country's money, there's a debate whether that has to be paid, or whether creditors, like the French, should have known they were dealing with a rogue leader.
So you can see the point, if the United States encouraging the new Iraqi government to repudiate those debts, French companies and possibly other French individuals, and even maybe the government, could be out billions of dollars, and as I said, if they're vetoed in reconstruction efforts, that's going to cost French companies billions more.
HEMMER: I wonder if there is any domestic side to punishing the French?
GREENFIELD: You know, what I think it may do is feed into these stories we're reading, Bill, about these growing feud between Donald Rumsfeld Defense Department and Colin Powell's State Department. You remember last week, former House speaker Newt Gingrich, who was an old friend of Rumsfeld, gave an extraordinary tough speech that was a very thinly veiled attack on Colin Powell. Things got so rough that Colin Powell's deputy, Richard Armitage publicly said, and this is a quote, "It's now clear that Newt is off his meds and out of therapy." Usually, diplomats don't talk that way.
So any idea that the French are going to be completely cut out may bother the State Department, because after all, their job is so soothe ruffled international feathers, and that may just feed into this Defense Department, State Department fight about who runs Iraq and how.
HEMMER: I'm reading a really good back by Con Coughlin right now, "The Secret Life of Saddam Hussein." Going back to the 1970s, he details in great detail how Jacques Chirac was the point man for any business deals that went with Baghdad, went with Iraq and went with Saddam Hussein.
GREENFIELD: Yes, we have our own embarrassments back in the '80s, when the United States was backing Saddam against Iran, but you're quite right, I mean, if the French's ties to Saddam, and Chirac in particular are going to be -- you know, what papers are found in the headquarters of the Baathist Party and Saddam's palaces, this could prove to be a long-term story.
HEMMER: Merci, Jeffrey. Have a good Monday.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
